Nintendo sets sights on "nongamers"

I hear an echo somewhere in the distance. . .

. . .virtual boy. . .
. . .virtual boy. . .

Nintendo has already cut bait on the DS by letting next-gen GBA rumors circulate uncontested and by failing to promote the "third pillar" philosophy which led it to the ridiculous knee-jerky rushed development farce that is/was the DS.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

(chortle)

I hear an echo somewhere in the distance. . .

. . .virtual boy. . .
. . .virtual boy. . .

Nintendo has already cut bait on the DS by letting next-gen GBA rumors circulate uncontested and by failing to promote the "third pillar" philosophy which led it to the ridiculous knee-jerky rushed development farce that is/was the DS.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

(chortle)

lol I have to agree with you Bob. I hear something whispering in the wind ..... ~virrrrtual boy~ .. ....... ~virrrrtual boy~

You're right about Nintendo's response, they havent addressed any of the rumors yet, which is unusual (and worrisome for DS owners im guessing).

I think it'd be sweet if they released a portable capable of using Gamecube discs to compete with the PSP.

Rumors addressed at www.gameindustry.biz

The DS is a failure? That is a rather bold statement James. How can you possibly call it so early? The PSP hasn't even been released yet (in the US). All the mainstream 1st gen games are still in development and won't make their way's to shelves 'till later in the year. And 3rd party developers are still trying to figure out the best way to utilize the capabilities of the DS. And already you proclaim it dead!? You guys can wisper "virtual boy" as much as you like, but the bottom line is, you have no idea how things will turn out in a year. I don't wanna sound like a fanboi or anything, but I'm just shocked that your proclaiming the device dead, despite it's great initial sales, and the fact that all the big games are still on the horizon. Talk about jumping the gun :p

I'm not comparing DS to the PSP - just comparing it against Nintendo's own rumor mill and strategy statements. In both cases, they are doing a poor job of PR, and as we all know, perception is reality.

Whether they proclaim the DS as a separate segment or not, if they make the GBA better with a next-gen device, they confuse their customers *and* their game publishers. Which horse do they bet on?

At the proverbial End of the Day, strategy is nice, but execution rules. And so far - just so far - the DS execution is awful, especially with all of these next-gen GBA and "non-gamer" positioning discussions. Their marketing leadership is just plain lousy, IMO, and for a product with the brand strength of Nintendo, that is inexcusable.

When I got my Xbox, the only thing worth playing for more than a year was Halo.

When I got my PS2, the only thing worth playing was...well nothing. SSX? Fantavision?

The DS has plenty of time to grow into something special.

The new GBA that is coming is nothing to write home about. It is revision to the GBA SP. Better screen, maybe some other goodies. This isn't the GameBoy Evolution.

The DS is going to mature into a wireless communication device. Voip, instant messaging and gaming are all going to come together into a portable system that finds a new niche. It truly is something different. Some people are closed-minded enough that they can't see that.

Don't quite know about dead...at least not yet. But as a DS owner (accidentally so), the dreadful list of titles, and the seemingly stupid desire of Nintendo to appeal to "casual" gamers instead of those of us who want to experience a console experience in the palm of our hands is baffling. Puppy Times? Even the title makes me want to just throw my DS into the nearest trash can. And now with the recent rumors that Nintendo wants to release a superficial "upgrade" to their GBA line of devices is further evidence that the DS is more of an attention grabber than an actual game platform. The DS appears poised to be nothing more than a way of competing for public interest in the face of the PSP. The only salvation for the DS is the fact they have already sold, what, 3 million units worldwide? That's still a market for some developer to make money in, so I think we might still see something crop up to bolster interest - unless by the time any good games come out for the thing, everyone has already put it so far on the back shelf that it will never see the light of day again.

Somebody needs to tell Nintendo that non-gamers don't buy handhelds. Non-gamers buy playstations and use it to play Madden and other sports titles. Nintento has two real markets for thier devices, hard-core gamers who have bought every nintendo product since the NES, and parents buying a "safe" console for thier kids.

the DS would of been a flop from day 1 if it didn't have the advertising it did. the system is shameful, i can't even bare to look at the dreadful thing.

"The DS is going to mature into a wireless communication device. Voip, instant messaging and gaming are all going to come together into a portable system that finds a new niche. It truly is something different. Some people are closed-minded enough that they can't see that."

It is truly different...so different that it could just as easily alienate its customers. The DS was obviously pushed out before the infrastructure of games and software was in place. Of course, this happened so that it could steal the limelight from the PSP. Honestly, do you really think that we will see people using their DS for VOIP phone calls? Come on...that's not gonna happen. As a messaging device, this thing will fail...we already have plenty of cell phones, and PDA's to cover this category. Not to mention the DS really has horrible form factor for this kind of use! Maybe a bunch of early teenies will go StarBucks hotspotting and use these things to IM with their buds....BUT, I doubt that either. Nintendo needs to create compelling uses for this platform, and they need to do so quickly. One of the most compelling titles for this unit is Metroid Prime, and this title actually got pushed BACK in its release date - instead, we here of PUPPY Times being a title for this thing. That's a marvelous use of company resources, isn't it? Can't we all see the logic here? :)

Ha! I love it. Let me get this straight, you believe the DS is a failure because of an eccentric game released in Japan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn'y Japan known for these weird, out of left field games. This thing will probably never make it to the US, and if it did, GREAT! Gamers have been screaming for years to get these off-the-wall Japanese games released here in the US.

How can the DS be compared to the Virtual Boy. The VB was a failure because it wasn't embraced by consumers. The DS has already seen a tremendous success on that front.

What's wrong with Puppy Time anyway? The game should be evaluated on its own merits not whether or not you think the concept is cool. Is it fun? Does it play well? Let's not forget the huge success of the Tamigachi.

"Chances are you bought the DS in hopes of having some really sweet wireless battles" Or maybe you thought the concept of a touching your games sounded fun. Wireless capability is only one of many reasons to buy a DS. Let's not forget that it plays GBA games as well.

"Can Nintendo really expect to move DS units by appealing to people that don’t consider themselves to be video game players?" Ummm, I'm guessing Nintendo is expecting to move DS units by appealing to consumers of ANY type. After all, if they buy it, who cares whether or not they call themselves "gamers".

I'll file this under "another guy shouting too looudly about nothing". Sorry to be so harsh.

I really don't see the announcement of one or two games aimed at non-gamers as being such a horrible thing. If you look at the pipeline for the ds these games would at most make up about 1% of the games. Yeah, there aren't too many games out for the ds yet, but that will change in march
i think there is about ten games scheduled for na release.And we have yet to hear any official word on nintendo's upcoming plans for the ds which most people believe will be announced to coincide with the na release of the psp , so i think it is way too early to come to any conclusions about a 6 month old platform especially if those conclusions based on the last two weeks of internet fanboy speculation.

Seriously. Comparing the DS to PSP is like comparing a PS2 to a Nintendo 64. No matter what you want so badly to believe. The Nintendo DS just doesn't have the ability to compete with the PSP. Can you seriouly compare Mario Kart on the DS to Gran Turismo on the PSP? Sure they are different games. The DS is a step back in technology. If they had the gamecube version of mario kart on a handheld, than Nintendo would have a true peice of hardware to compete with.

don't hate...innovate

All I can say...

it's supposed to be a portable system, but whenever I want to play my DS, I have to sit down by a table to play and use the stylus.

Me and 4 of my buddies all bought the DS early... and regretted it. Three sold it on Saturday, and I'm planning to do so myself. The only person left only plays it for the GBA games he keeps buying off his friend, for alas the poor kid has never had a console before.

I give it an F for failure. PSP, here I come. You've failed me for the 2nd time in a row Nintendo, and they've been two big ones.

OMG! Teh PSP has a train stimulaqtor! It is teh d00med!

This is hysterical. The resports of the DS' death have been greatly exaggerated.

Here is a video of an early beta of the game.
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000647026489/

Please explain why attitudes have changed so much about this title.

Here is a link to a video. You need to see it in motion...
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000647026489/

Please explain how the PSP is a PS2? Nintendo DS is clearly a Nintendo 64 minus texture filtering. PSP is on par with the N64 pilygoncount-wise, nowhere near as powerful as the PS2. It has some nice texture filtering going on which gives it that PS2-like appearance even though texture memory is very low.

Also, please show me some REAL shots of this Gran Turismo for the PSP. Everything shown up to this point was mock-ups and pre-rendered material, not anything that runs on the actual hardware.

What I meant was that this same game was praised on Joystiq not long ago. Both the staff and commenters went on about how cool it looked.

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000647026489/

How did attitudes towards this game change so quickly? Is it because someone said this game was for casual players so everyone laid the hate on it?

No, I'd compare it to Crash Bandicoot Racing, since you're comparing apples and oranges...although they are similar in one regard: NEITHER ONE IS OUT YET. Comparing a game like Mario Kart, which is universally known for it's arcade multiplayer action against Gran Tourismo, which is famous for it's decidedly non-multiplayer simulation experience, is just ridiculous, IMHO.

Mind you, courting non-gamers is not a bad strategy. There's a vast sea of untapped gamers out there, primarily female, who would love some games that didn't involve half-naked elf-chicks and bloody exploding heads. Name me a game announced for the PSP that isn't just a reiteration of a PS/2 game, other than mercury. Name me a PSP game that is similar to Another, Survival DS, or Gyakuten Saiban.

Nintendo is using the same strategy on all their devices: rather than go head-to-head on pure pixel pushing power, they're modifying the actual experience. Bongos, microphones, touch-screen, interconnectivity between systems...Nintendo's been looking for ways to attract new players to the field.

The PSP and the DS are going for different targets: to call the DS a failure when they're barely out of the hurdle is incredibly premature....not unlike the DS and PSP's launch titles, in most cases.

C'mon Joystiq! You know that games like Metroid Prime Hunters, Another Code, and a new Mario Brothers are on their way.

Iwata also talked about Jam with the Band. I own that. It's freaking hard, but it's loads of fun. Somehow a fully functional music sequencer doesn't scream "casual" to me. It's just different. Nintendo is the second biggest publisher of games. They are going to make some games for different or "more casual" audiences. EA makes "the Sims" for casual gamers. Why don't you jump on them for a change?

They are trying things that would appeal to the non gamers a la GameBoy with Tetris, remember then, when even your dad had one before you did.

Saying a system is a failure after a 2 million sell is moronic, the DS cannot be compared to the Virtual Boy. Get it to your heads people and let that one go, it's almost the same as saying "MiniDisc" everytime I hear UMD.

It's not to early to call it simply isn't callable, get it to your heads both the DS and PSP WILL share the market alongside the all time favourite GBA (or evolution or whatever) and wether or not the PSP will outsell the DS isn't important or relevant, what's important is that we, the CONSUMERS/GAMERS get quality products that provide us with more "bang for our buck", I think each system will appeal to each taste, PSP owners will have lots of fun with their systems but so will DS owners and GB owners.

Remember guys (and gals) since the release of the Sony Playstation no one can question the quality of their games and appeal to a different market, the twenty something gamer, and so is what Nintendo is trying to do; it's bold and should be embraced as much as Sony with the Eye Toy, they are thinking of ways to expand and surprise us, and make our gaming experiences more enjoyable and... yes, appeal to another market,wich screams to me GameBoy and Tetris(but hey, I lived that era) and wich to me they seem to be succeding at (I went away for the weekend with my whole family for my grandmothers birthday and my uncles and aunts keept asking to borrow mine to play not Mario 64 but Feel The Magic, even so much as taking turns for it).

So let's stop this VS. bashing, if you don't like a system than don't buy it, if you are tired of waiting for games for the DS, complain about it, if you think Sony is owned by Satan than say so, but realize that the only winners in a 3 portable console war will be us. How bad could that be?

#18, 20...It's nice to see that some people here still understand whats going on rather than just being uneducated sony fanbois. #14 had no idea what he's talking about and I'm glad someone was here to put him in his place while I was busy not checking joystiq. ;) There's so much life left in the system that pronouncing it dead is just plain ignorant. Those of you who are unsatisfied with your DS, feel free to sell them, but I'd recommend that you don't go blowing all the money you get for it...because your gonna wanna buy it again a little down the road.

WizardDru:
Addressing your first point, if Nintendo wanted to create a realistic driving game for the DS, it would come nowhere close to as good-looking (or fun IMO) as its PSP counterpart. The DS could never do a Gran Turismo game, which is fine because as you mentioned, "the PSP and the DS are going for different targets". But look at Ridge Racer on both systems. The PSP version looks better and plays better. The UMD disks hold more data than the DS cartrigidges (although spinning a disk is no fun), and PSP games can therefore hold more levels, characters etc. Do you expect a _neutral_ gamer to look at Ridge Racer on both systems and say, I wanna play the DS version so I can wear a button on my thumb to control the car (without any tactile feedback)? No, probably not.

What DS does have is potential, but in different areas than the PSP does. You simply CANNOT do anything like WarioWare on the PSP, which is a credit to DS's design. But to me, as a gamer, it is more important to have a solid lineup of games, more exciting titles that reflect the current trends in video gaming, and a downright good looking system. I feel like Nintendo is stuck somewhat in the cycle it's familiar with, that is, it is too used to making the types of games it has always made for handhelds. If it can get out of this rut, sign more third-party publishers to make big games that move units, then they'll be just fine. I agree, it is ridiculous to pronounce either system 'dead' at this stage, but it equally unfair to say that the DS is better than the PSP, which isn't even out.

As for courting non-gamers, that has proven risky in the past - it's not guaranteed money. The Sims did it well, and they profitted from it, but throughout the history of gaming, the games that have done better have been targetted more towards the 'gamer'. This could always change, but it requires initiative.

As for PSP games, you forgot Luminees, Twisted Metal (which is a rehash of a series, not a game), Wipeout Pure, Infected, Death Jr, not to mention countless other Japanese titles since the PSP is not region coded. Sony has proven that it can deliver the knockout punch by providing the most diverse library of games for its system (as it did with the PS2) and come out ahead.

All that said, Puppy Times looks kinda cool, but would you throw a virtual green tennis ball to a dog over and over again for more than say, a month?

My extended family purchased GameCubes to play Donkey Konga. It is simple enough that anyone can play but challenging enough to defeat the most hardcore.

There are lots of people out there that love to play, but don't fall into one of the standard 'gamer' profiles.

I hate to tell you this guys, but this title will fly off the shelves in Japan. One of Dreamcast's (definately a hard-core gaming system), was a dog-walking simulation. No, I don't think it will do well in the anerican market, but I could be wrong there too, look at tamogachi. This title makes good use of the ds's unique function and my girlfriend is totally hyped about this game. Not every game is for you. Nintendo as a business is making a good move with this one. And this system outsold virtual boy's total sales in it's first week, so the compasisons are a little beyond lame.

wtf...did someone say ps2 is better than n64....i need to lay down....give me a minute....the ps2 is old and outdated regardless of how many new games are relesed....the ps3 has a chance...but the n64 was relesed and discontinued at just the right time and there are many n64 games that i get preowned and play...the ps2 has such a larger selection of games because it came out a while ago....and i like dots

Yeah yeah, you're right (#22) Ketch. But, bashing .... i mean disagreement ... is a part of forums, everyone shouldn't have to embrace the idea that "all that is released to consumers is good". I think the DS will do fine if it has good games coming out every now and then (which it doesnt right now, some months after release ... someone before said they released it to steal PSP sales... sounds right, but I dont think that benefits the consumer, it benefits their profit margins perhaps?).

But, im wondering one thing from what you said. So of course more choices, like having 3 portable systems, is better for the consumer. But, do you believe Nintendo and its supply of developers would support DS if something better (more along the lines of a portable gamecube which they may have more familiarity with developing for) came along from Nintendo?

I think the DS users could get screwed if Nintendo doesn't focus on it and get developers interested. I love what Nintendo makes software-wise, but I'm ALWAYS worried about a lack of variety in 3rd party games. I realize more isn't better, but too little isnt better either probably. Sigh, I miss Sega and their Dreamcastawesomeness...

29 and currently working/living in Japan and have just got Touch! Catch! Yoshi! (My 4th title so far for the DS), and it's a simply to play yet very challenging game that works fantastically well with the touch-screen and mic (gotta blow to clear what you've drawn on the screen).

I don't deny that there's a drought for DS games at the moment, even in JP, but at the same time, I don't think that Nintendo did the wrong thing launching the system early. If anything, it is the right move, because the system, being so different as it is from anything else, needs the exposure and ready market-size to attract those 3rd party developers. At least for the moment, it's a sure bet that the best games will be 1st party games from Nintendo.

With regards to the PSP, I think the same comments about the DS games can also be applied to the PSP games. Even though the launch library seems big for the PSP, the truth is, there are lacking in quality, with the biggest sellers being Ridge Racer and Minna no Golf (Golf game) - not exactly stuff to be wildly excited about. In contrast, Mario 64, Wario Touched! and Touch! Catch! Yoshi have sold in much greater quantities. So as far as sheer sales are concerned, the DS games are still far outpacing the PSP games.

Heading to one of the download stops later and check how that's like. Hopefully more of these new innovations to come!

Wow. Turning a profit on every one of the of the 3+millions of units sold - I hope one day that I can fail that spectacularly at my job.

When Apple announces a new computer model, does everyone automatically stop buying the old machines?

Nintendo have a huge following. they are one of the greatest gaming companies in exsistance, and this is because they dont try to follow every one else, they innovate. they bring new ideas, new schools of thought to old ideas. this doesnt always appeal to every one but hey nintendo is the true hardcore fans games company. it brigns great titles and great hardware to its true fans. but then agen y shudnt nintendo try to appeal to new gamers? more gamers mean a bigger business which can only bring benifits to the gamer in return. the ds is certainly NOT dead! it hasnt reached its feet yet but it will. innovation doesnt always work, but its definatly the way forward!! great games will follow the ds and it will succeed!

I see what you mean Ying (#29). It was a good business move, but I wonder how the younger consumers (im thinking highschool and below) feel about only having a few games in the US that are for DS over the last 4 months or so. I'm in college and dont spend nearly as much time playing games as i did before ... im really curious lol what do younger people think of the DS? anyone here?

Also in the past around the SNES times and on, I had an impression the launch titles and software support were really important (maybe more so then, than now i have no idea ...)

It's still a matter of taste. I like these games, you like those games.
I played mario 64 to death on N64 and have played my friend's DS version. It's cool and all, but I was hoping for a new game, not a remix. I prefer a puzzle game like Lumines and a racing game like Ridge Racer to what is released on the DS right now. Also it's fun to use xlink (teamxlink.co.uk) with my laptop to play other PSP users for free in other parts of the world. I know they're working on a DS version, but haven't completed even a beta i guess. Also, I love RPGs, so whichever system has a better selection in the long run would rock my socks off. Just my opinion ...

I can't believe some people have sold their DS, you bought the system knowing there was only a few games for now with the big guns coming after 6 months and you have the nerve to complain about it *rolls eyes*

I'm getting my DS on Thursday night (midnight opening in Europe) and I'll be happy with the launch titles (WW, M64 & Polarium) and will happily wait for the strongest games list for any system. I look at the DS release list for this year and I see some fantastic titles, new and old, and they'll all be something special:

Metroid, Advance Wars, Secret of Mana, Mario Bros, Meteos, Another Code, Xenosaga, Nanostray, FFIII, FF:CC (awesome potential), Mario Kart, Dragon Quest, Harvest Moon, Kirby, Egg Monster Heroes, Snowboard Kids, Sonic DS, Worms, Bomberman Castlevania etc - what a list and that's off the top of my head, I know I've missed a heap of great games as well.

There's also the plentiful new and innovative games sitting in the wing like the unamed Konami RPG etc - and what about that Mist Walker one, a tactical RPG like FF:Tactics, made by the same people and with full touch screen movement/control/commands etc.

Anyone who has sold their DS has made a huge mistake and will come crawling back. And without mentioning the PSP too much all I see on it's release list is something I can play bigger and more impressive on the PS2 - why the heck would I want to fork (another!) £40 out for the inferior portable version!

Anyway Joystiq/James - you should really be ashamed of yourself.

Oh and #31 - "Also, I love RPGs, so whichever system has a better selection in the long run would rock my socks off."

You'll be blown away by the DS then, as I'm sure you've just read. All I've seen RPG wise from PSP is Tales of Eternia (and there's a Tales game coming for the DS). Tales of Eternia is also the only good game I can see on the PSP for the foreseeable future, the rest (if any) I'll be playing the better version, cheaper, on a more powerfull system and a bigger screen, the PS2.

The DS will rock, just give it some time.
Warioware really is cool and incredibly fun, all those who disagree are either manically depressed or have the imagination of a goldfish.
Sure crappy games like Spiderman 2 on DS don't exactly encourage you to buy one - but why sell it BEFORE the decent games come out?
Most consoles launch with a rubbish lineup. have patience, my friends. You just need to do a bit of open-minded reasearch to see that there are loads of GREAT games coming to DS.
Whilst you PSP owners are still playing your ported Fifa 2005s us proud DS owners will be breaking down the boundaries with the likes of warioware, project rub, nanostray, metroid hunters, band brothers, animal crossing, mario kart, elektroplankton....the list goes on and on.

by the way "Puppy Times" is not the name of the game anymore. They wisely changed it too a slightly less sickening "Nintendogs"
And after looking at the success of tamigotchis amongst little girls and *non gamers*, surely you can't claim this will be a failure? I bet there are plenty *female* (i dont mean to be sexist, but its obvious Nintendo are trying to appeal to girls what with this coming out on the same dya as the pink DS) people who would naver pick up GTA who are really interested in this game.

Exactly #33/34

Just look at the success of the Pink SP, proof there is market demand for such products.

In fact you can expect me posting again here in 6 weeks when we get the inevitable great sales data in from Japan to personally laugh at James and his ludicrous claims of failures and unfounded comments toward Nintendogs and Nintendo targeting something more than his oh so high and mighty Hardcore demograph.

Will you prepared to eat your words when the big sales of both the Nintendogs title and Candy DS come in James?

Wow, this article is ludacris. Let me clarify just a couple things that might help to point out why this doesn't make any sense:

-- The PSP costs what... twice as much as the DS? A lot of people aren't going to spend that amount of money on a handheld system. It may look better, but you better believe that you're paying the premium, too.

-- The DS is already out, and has proven its sales.

-- The PSP doesn't exactly have an huge launch lineup, either.

-- People aren't going to buy a PSP to listen to MP3's. They're just not. That's what we have iPod's for. Yes, it's a nice extra, but it's not a deciding factor in the sales of the system, especially at its price, and battery life (10 hours).

-- People aren't going to buy the PSP to watch movies. I don't care what anybody says - it's just a gimmick. And companies aren't going to flock to make discs of movies for the PSP, either.

-- Nintendo is launching a *free* networking service for DS users to play on later this year, if I recall correctly. Has Sony committed to anything like this?

Just some thoughts....

James is a horrible idiot and joystiq.com is just as bad!

jarrod, that may be a little harsh to be honest, despite my (and GamerHeavens) public complaints taking that stance is a little off - though they are clearly biased against Nintendo (as I am for Nintendo).

Though the 6 weeeks are up and I can tell James that right now I'm feeling more than a little smug, I wonder how you feel though James?

Wow. That's all I have to say. James is a FUCKING RETARD. Look how well it did. The DS rocks and he's a SHITFACE COCKMASTER, A DOGGY RAPING SHIT EATER, AND A GAY ASS HOLE WHO DOESN'T APPRECIATE NINTENDOS AMAZING DEVICE AND WAITED TO SEE WHAT IT BECAME. Right now there are plenty of good games out and the game deppression is over.

Matha Stuart.