25 To Life finds another "fan"
by Steve Parsons 
{ Jun 23rd 2005 at 7:56AM }
CNN's Nancy Grace stuck her nose where it didn't belong. Sadly it didn't get bitten off. Nope, dear
old
Nancy joined the cause of the month, to add
her name to the long line of busybodies trying to condemn 25 To Life.
All this attention about how bad the game is will surely end with the game flying off store shelves into people eagers
hands, even if it stinks. (Which being an Eidos title, it might very well.) Nancy Grace, host of the imaginatively
named Nancy Grace, stuck her two cents in on how the game is evil etc… *yawn* You'd think these morons would know by
now that the best way to guarantee something you hate sells is to get on TV and condemn it. Eidos couldn't buy
publicity like this. Or perhaps that is exactly what they've done.
Nancy called for stores to not carry the game. I'm sure Amazon will be more than willing to hook you up, should this
incorrigible little wench and her friends get their way, which is extremely unlikely.
Notice how senators and their ilk never whine about games being boring and repetitive? Where the hell is OUR representation?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
It's kinda ironic. We have the fanboys flaming over which system is better... one that doesn't exist and one that doesn't exist.
All the while we have powerful rightwing freaks trying to tell us that what we are doing is wrong (yet it is ok for them to consume mass drugs, get every cosmetic surgery procedure known and drive vehicles that suck the earth dry).
I am not saying that rightwing is better than leftwing (both are needed to fly). What I am saying is let's not let them take our rights away with censorship and political hyprocrisy.
Anyone have any ideas how we can stop this before it gets out of hand?
MattG @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Where is our representation? We can't afford it.
Adam @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Ironically, I didn't even know about this game until it was getting ridiculed by politicians. Do they realize how much PR they give these games?
ChronoZaga @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Is there not some kind of video game maker's association? I mean, if the industry is bigger than Hollywood, and every game is 60 bucks a pop, you'd think they'd have a strong lobby, and a decent voice with the media.
Man, were are the REAL people on TV news?
Timmay! @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
It's the "in thing" for politicians to go after videogames now. It gets them votes. Back in the 80's it was the music.
As far as politician on our side...
Nobody who plays videogames is dumb enough to be a politician. We're all too indepent minded to be herded by special interest groups.
Buzz @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
I don't think Nancy Grace gives a crap about this game or its implications. First of all, it's very likely that her producers, not the host, chooses the topics. Secondly, these days news is more of a business than a service. They're doing this to attract attention, nothing more.
Josh @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
See the link on my name for my original take on it. I've been hounding on this stuff for a while.
Gamers need to get verbal. Get angry. Write CNN. Write Ed Bradley. The media is shaping this into a story about fear and sensationalism and they are ignoring facts right in front of them in the process.
And they're doing it because they assume gamers don't care, but the frightened parents will keep watching.
Justin @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
"I am not saying that rightwing is better than leftwing (both are needed to fly)."
Says you, but *I* have a *Batwing*.
Dogbowl @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
What gave anyone the idea that Nancy Grace is right wing? She's as loony as loony leftwingers come.
Tyre @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
I had no intentions of buying this game until now. I hope Nancy Grace reads this before she goes on her annoying Hardball rip off show. And realizes that she has officialy done more harm than good.
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Nancy Grace is a conservative which she states herself...Both sides libs/neocons are pushing for game censorship.. Schumer and Lieberman are DEMs, although Lieberman has given kudos to the gaming industry for its rating system...Jack thompson and a bunch of Religious nut jobs are pushing these issues very hard.
All this attention about how bad the game is will surely end with the game flying off store shelves into people eagers hands, even if it SUCKS. (Which being an Eidos title, it WILL.).....The sad truth.
iiago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Guys can't you honestly admit that there is SOME credence to concerns about violence in games?
If there was a FPS rape game, where ran around and raped little children, wouldn't you admit THAT game should be banned? If you can't at least admit that there IS an issue here, you'll just look like you don't care about the issues you just want to play violent games. It's not very convincing.
I don't think violent games are really a problem yet, but you've got to at least acknowledge the potential problem
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
iiago there's a big link to guns and violence so should we ban guns? How about the link between drunk drivers and cars should we ban cars or ban booze? Give me a break, maybe we should blame the criminal instead of giving them excuses for their sick behavior...Just remember in the 80's they blamed ROCK music, 90's it was RAP music...What will it be next?
MUhockey @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Ya know, my mom actually gave a good point the other day on this stuff. Bad parenting are a lot of the problem here, I game like crazy, for hours on end, I love FPS games and I rack up a pretty big number of kills everyday. I have no desire to do anything remotely dangerous towards anyone else. If anything, I can take my anger out in the games, I can release tension into the video games. Does anyone else hear me on this? I mean, god damn people, teach your kids right from wrong, reality from fantasy. If parents don't start teaching these basic priciples, we're gonna have a lot more to worry about in the future besides violent video games.
xx1 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Now that they are doing all the free publicity, I'm going to tell all my friends to get this game!
iiago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
"iiago there's a big link to guns and violence so should we ban guns?"
Um...we do. Have you tried to buy a bazooka lately? Maybe someone decided it was too violent for public access.
"How about the link between drunk drivers and cars should we ban cars or ban booze?"
we do this too - it's called 'drink driving' and 'don't sell it minors'.
"Give me a break, maybe we should blame the criminal instead of giving them excuses for their sick behavior"
? This isn't about excusing criminals it's about stopping crime. Prevention is better than cure. 'nuff said.
And look if you belive there IS a link between video games and violence then ADMIT IT. Move the debate to the real point of contention otherwise you're just raving.
iiago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
My point is these are legitimate concerns people are raising.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18625053.200
If you disagree you'd better have a better reason than "but I don't wanna stop playing"
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
iiago you are a idiot.....
Um...we do. Have you tried to buy a bazooka lately? Maybe someone decided it was too violent for public access.
[A bazooka is not a gun idiot. So no we dont ban guns].
"How about the link between drunk drivers and cars should we ban cars or booze?"
we do this too - it's called 'drink driving' and 'don't sell it minors'.
[WTF] Look tard if you get caught driving drunk you go to jail, you dont get to blame the bar ,car,or booze for your stupidty...
As far as games go THERE'S THIS THING ON A GAME THAT IF YOU CAN READ CALLED A ESRB RATING SYSTEM, WITH A BIG LETTER T=TEEN, E=EVERYONE, M=MATURE+17. IT TELLS YOU IF THERE'S BLOOD AND GORE VIOLENCE ETC ETC.
If you disagree you'd better have a better reason than "but I don't wanna stop playing"
[The courts have ruled video games are a part of free speech, games have a rating system just as good as movie industry. 99% of retail stores wont sell M-rated games to minors...The problem is parents buy M-rated games for their kids because they still have this retarded belief that video game are just for children]....
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
YOU know that just round the corner is a man who wants to kill you. Your heart is pounding and your hands are sweating - even though this is only a video game. But what is happening in your brain?
A small study of brain activity in video-game veterans suggests that their brains react as if they are treating the violence as real.
YEAH LETS SEE THE SAME STUDY ON THE SAME PEOPLE WATCHING A GOOD HORROR MOVIE...Some people cry over sad movies, scream over scary movies blah blah blah. But they all know its just a FUCKING movie...Same with video games.
troidy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
I think that the media's problem is that the media automatically connects video games and kids. They don't even start to remotely think that adults play video games too, which is getting harder and harder to ignore. And why the major media outlets dont attack movies, I don't know. I go to a movie, for example episode 3, I must see at least a dozen kids under 10 in that theater! But apparantly, that is not a threat to society. Apparently, video games pose a bigger threat than movies. Both have rating systems, another thing I think that the media ignores.
I mean, sure, when I was 13, my parents let me play violent games, like GTA, and I have never commited a crime in my life, not even a tiny misdemeanor. Why did my parents let me play violent games? They knew I could handle it. If
anyone, even a kid cant draw the line between
games and real life, they have much bigger problems then playing a fun game!
iiago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Ah, how I love intelligent debate.
[A bazooka is not a gun idiot. So no we dont ban guns].
It's the CONCEPT you nong. If there is an object that's highly dangerous WE BAN IT.
Your point = we don't ban dangerous things so don't ban videogames
My point = we DO ban dangerous things.
Ergo IF you accept that video games are highly dangerous (yes a big IF I know) then you shouldn't argue against them being banned.
Besides, my understanding is that some guns are banned in the US. Assault rifles for instance.
And the ones that aren't banned are regulated the fuck out of - you can only buy them at designated places, you need to have a licence, not carried in public, yadda yadda yadda.
WE BAN OR REGULATE DANGEROUS THINGS. THIS IS A FACT.
[[WTF] Look tard if you get caught driving drunk you go to jail, you dont get to blame the bar ,car,or booze for your stupidty...]
You're missing the point - the question is "will banning or regulating videogames make life safer?" Blame doesn't come into it.
My point, once again, is that if certain behaviour is dangerous WE BAN OR REGULATE IT. No-one argues about their "right" to drive around drunk.
[As far as games go THERE'S THIS THING ON A GAME THAT IF YOU CAN READ CALLED A ESRB RATING SYSTEM, WITH A BIG LETTER T=TEEN, E=EVERYONE, M=MATURE+17. IT TELLS YOU IF THERE'S BLOOD AND GORE VIOLENCE ETC ETC.]
Duh - but what's your point? These people are saying that's not enough.
[The courts have ruled video games are a part of free speech, games have a rating system just as good as movie industry. 99% of retail stores wont sell M-rated games to minors]
That's not a reason it's a statement of fact. If you believed everything the supreme court said you'd still be in favour of slavery (seriously, I forget the name of the case)
[...The problem is parents buy M-rated games for their kids because they still have this retarded belief that video game are just for children]
Ah now THERE'S a reason!
So if someone says to you:
"Videogames encourage anti-social behaviour and therefore should be more heavily regulated"
Say:
"The systems we have in place are already suitable. The problem is consumer awareness."
Not:
"iiago you are a idiot....."
This is my whole point. Steve Parsons' asked why people don't listen to videogamers and this is why: because every time we open our mouths we look like aggressive pricks who can't string a sentence together.
Debate the issue - keep the namecalling for the playground.
iiago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
[YEAH LETS SEE THE SAME STUDY ON THE SAME PEOPLE WATCHING A GOOD HORROR MOVIE...Some people cry over sad movies, scream over scary movies blah blah blah. But they all know its just a FUCKING movie...Same with video games.]
I think you'll find movies are more highly regulated than games. I don't think the ESRB can ban a game entirely for eg.
Besides the problem isn't that these people run off in a hypnotic trance and re-enact Killzone. The problem is that it encourages a more violent less tolerent society.
"Niels Birbaumer of the University of T?gen in Germany speculates that playing violent video games regularly would strengthen (the "aggressive repsonse" circuits) in the brain. A regular player confronted with a similar real-life situation, might be more primed for aggression, Birbaumer says."
I'm not actually a huge fan of videogame censorship, I think there's bigger problems to worry about.
But I can accept they've got a point.
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Your point = we don't ban dangerous things so don't ban videogames
NO THATS NOT MY POINT....EVERYTHING IN LIFE CAN BE DANGEROUS BUT WE DONT JUMP ON THE LETS BLAME IT AND BAN IT BANDWAGON. AND FOR EVERY STUDY THAT SAYS THEY ARE/CAN BE HARMFUL, THERES ANOTHER STUDY THAT SAYS THEY ARE NOT. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHICH SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU FALL ON...
Besides, my understanding is that some guns are banned in the US. Assault rifles for instance.
WRONG AGAIN! UNLESS YOU LIVE IN CALI.
[As far as games go THERE'S THIS THING ON A GAME THAT IF YOU CAN READ CALLED A ESRB RATING SYSTEM, WITH A BIG LETTER T=TEEN, E=EVERYONE, M=MATURE+17. IT TELLS YOU IF THERE'S BLOOD AND GORE VIOLENCE ETC ETC.]
Duh - but what's your point? These people are saying that's not enough.
AND WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?..THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WANTED ALCOHOL BANNED ROCK-N-ROLL BANNED...CABLE AND SATELLITE REGULATED, MAYBE YOU FEEL THE NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING IN YOUR LIFE REGULATED BY THE GOVT. BUT THE GENERAL POPULATION SAYS NO FUCKING THANKS.
You're missing the point - the question is "will banning or regulating videogames make life safer?
THE DAY THEY PROVE THAT VIDEO GAMES ARE A DANGER AND A HAZARD...
[The courts have ruled video games are a part of free speech, games have a rating system just as good as movie industry. 99% of retail stores wont sell M-rated games to minors]
That's not a reason it's a statement of fact. If you believed everything the supreme court said you'd still be in favour of slavery (seriously, I forget the name of the case)
ITS EXACTLY WHAT I INTENDED IT TO BE..[A STATEMENT OF FACT]. THE COURTS HAVE RULED VIDEO GAMES ARE A PART OF FREE SPEECH THAT MEANS THEIR PROTECTED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. AND EVERY STATE THAT HAS TRIED TO REGULATE THEM HAS BEEN STRUCK DOWN BY THE COURTS...SOON TO INCLUDE ILLINOIS..
I think you'll find movies are more highly regulated than games. I don't think the ESRB can ban a game entirely for eg
WRONG AGAIN! THE MOVIE INDUSTRY IS SELF REGULATED...AND USES THE SELF REGULATING MPAA RATINGS SYSTEM.
Niels Birbaumer of the University of T?gen in Germany speculates that playing violent video games regularly would strengthen (the "aggressive repsonse" circuits) in the brain. A regular player confronted with a similar real-life situation, might be more primed for aggression, Birbaumer says."
NOTICE THE WORD SPECULATES, REMEMBER THAT WORD WHEN EVER YOU READ ONE OF THOSE STUDIES...[SPECULATE To engage in a course of reasoning often based on INCONCLUSIVE evidence].
As Apu Owner of the Kwik-e-Mart on the Simpsons would say, THANK YOU COME AGAIN!
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
Censorship to me, is about power. Someone wanting to control what I watch or play is wrong.
If you want to help people, offer education so they can make their own decisions.
Sure there are some aspects to video games that are not appropiate for younger audiences. Yes parents should be parenting, and not leaving it in the hands of any media control (including games).
As an adult, it is my right and privilage to play video games. For anyone to tell me that games should be banned... shame on them. I would recomend education and community involvement, but not censorship.
Ivan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
I have to say, chill, you're not going to convince too many people with that kind of debate.
The problem with many research studies on agression and video games is that they can prove that games increase agression in the short term. An then procede to do a correlational study which shows that people who play video games are more likely to commit crimes - that does not account for agressive people playing video games however. It is very possible that people who are agressive will seek out violent games, thus contributing to the results of the correlational study.
http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/familyresources/a/vidgameviolence.htm
The article iiago linked to does not say anything about become agressive - it said that people react to games like they do to real violence - you cannot reasonably draw the conclusion that games make a person more agressive. unless you can also prove that exposure to real threats makes you agressive.
Ivan
jason @ Dec 18th 2005 9:47PM
I do not believe that any game in and of itself could be "dangerous." Some talking head on television with an axe to grind and with a right wing agenda in hand...now THAT could be what is dangerous. Nancy Grace herself is not as credible as she would have us believe, however...check this factual info out for yourself. it proves that she is not being quite forthright or honest about her own past, which, to me, speaks volumes: http://www.themediadrop.com/archives/003505.php
peace-
jason