Politician blows hot air over San Andreas

I'm glad someone else is as disgusted by these kind of publicity stunts as I am.

I wouldn't call my mother a "Slack Jawed Yokel," but she is the kind of person to believe this crap. Thank god I'm an adult now.

Politicians did rail against the movie industry like this way back a long time ago. The movie industry survived. They figured out you have to shovel money into the corrupt hands of the oligarchy running this country. Now look at all that money the videogame industry is earning! And they're only paying 50 to 60% of that money to the government (who did nothing to help them earn it in the first place) in taxes! It's practically criminal if you're looking at it through the jaundiced eyes of a power-mad politico who needs to grease a few more palms, buy a few more votes, and pay to bury a few more hookers. But fear not for your games, wary players. EA is a solid block of coldhearted evil, and they'll play ball. They'll start making the requisite sacrifices.

In the meantime, if you're worrying about your tender young ones... don't. No image on any screen, whether it be of violence, sex, profanity, drugs, whatever, is going to make your kid a worse person. Or a better one. Period. You could strap your kid into a chair, tape his eyes open, and show him ethnic cleansing footage interspersed with rape scenes set to a deathmetal soundtrack and it's not going to change who they are at all. They may not like you much afterwards, but they're not going to kill anyone.

Rockstar is hurting themselves by not making a statement. I know that the controversy is over a mod, but the ESRB still needs to either impose a fine on Rockstar for hiding even unplayable content.

Damn straight man.

It's a pathetic argument and one that we're all sick of hearing. It's the perfect marriage of lazy journalism and sensationalism.

When are they (the man) just going to back off and accept video games as another form of entertainment?

I haven't heard anything about the London bombings being tied to videogames yet (everything's squarely blaimed on Muslims over here at the moment - lazy journalism rears its ugly head once more) but if I hear anything I'll pass it on.

I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, San Andreas is a pretty offensive game. It recreates and glorifies a sad, angry, violent lifestyle. OTOH, most parents don't even know that ratings exist, let alone what kind of content is in some of these games. Sad all around, really.

The difference between games and movies though is that while watching movies you follow a story and have no influence on the outcome of what is shown. But with a game you actively carry out vicious attacks, making you incontrol of the actions. This behaviour is controlled by your brain which in theory means you are training your brain to think/act violently.

discuss.

My 2 cents.
If the US military spends millions of dollars on video games to train soldiers how to kill better, is it "possible" that some violent/racist video games can train young gamers (under 18) to be more violent/racist?
If so, shouldn't it be regulated?

I personally wish the gaming industry will just give in and just make adult video games for adults only. Why have a MATURE rating when anyone can purchase them? Maybe if they just follow their own ratings they can get those politico people off the game makers backs. Maybe then game creator can make some really awesome ADULT only games. =)

Tom: Retail stores won't carry games rated AO, if for any other reason that most of them are porn related.

Following is a re-enactment of a typical conversation with a parent about to buy San Andreas:

"How old is your son/daughter?"

"Thirteen."

"Well then let me say that this is the dirtiest and possibly the most violent game I've ever played, and I recommend you don't purchase this game for them."

"... That's OK."

In one ear, which seems to act as a mental megaphone, and out to the screaming politicians. If parents paid attention to their kids instead of sedating them with the pretty lights on the big screen, this wouldn't be an issue.

"FINE them for hiding unplayable content?"
are you retarded? they need to fine the dumbass parents that ignore the painfully obvious rating system plastered on the FRONT and BACK of the damn game. im looking at my case right now, and it CLEARLY states:
"Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, and Use of Drugs."
...now, if some worthless parent using a game console as a babysitter chooses to ignore these blatant warnings and still give a game containing all of these things to a 13 year old, it's THEIR fault, not rockstar's. it's time for parents to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they ARE accountable, and that children dont raise themselves.

Next time anyone here sells this (or any other violent rated M for a reason) game to a parent who doesn't seem to care just tell them.

"In this game you are encouraged to murder police officers, have sex with hookers, run down innocent citizens, and kill beat with a giant dildo"

If that doesn't make them reconsider then they are just idiots and this game can probably parent their kid better anyways.

JP: When playing a videogame you do not carry out the actions. You press buttons. This is controlled by your brain. So, in theory, you are training your brain to push buttons. There is the ancillary psychological effects of playing characters off of one another, obliterating fictional characters, etc. Your brain, at all times, however, is always aware that the characters you are dealing with are fictional. To hear parents argue it, they are entirely unaware that what happens in videogames is fiction.

Tom: No. The military does not use videogames to train their soldier exclusively, nor as a major component of training. They use it to train them in methods of communication, and do not believe, in any way, that it improves a soldiers ability to aim, fire, or kill. The real training of a soldier happens with real guns in real scenarios with real targets. The military realizes that controlling fictional characters and performing fictional actions on fictional targets has no effect on a soldier. However, when they are practicing communication in such a situation, they are actually communicating in real life with other people attempting to achieve a goal. That is training they want. And training that I don't think would harm anyone.

l0tus: What is their fault? If a parent gives a 13 year old San Andreas, nothing is going to happen to the kid. They're going to play a game. They're going to either enjoy it or they won't. That's the end of it.

I am perfectly fine with a parent giving their 13 year old a mature rated video game to play if they believe that they can handle the contents. What I might be ok with is the fact that a 13 year old, after saving their own allowance that his/her parents gave them, decides to buy a MATURE rated game without his/her parents knowing about its contents. Why have a MATURE rating if anyone can purchase them?

OtakuCODE:
I remember reading some article about how the military was spending millions on simulated video games to train soldiers. I think it was because it could save millions on ammunition cost and the program could reenact many combat scenarios. ALso aren't Pilots required to log in a certain number of hours on a simulated flying program in order to obtain their license?
My point is that I do believe to some extent that video games, like training simulators do influence behavior and train certain skills. As video games become more realistic and life like, parents ultimately needs to know what materials their children are exposed to. If a game is rated Mature, then it should be the parents decision to purchase the game and not a 13 year old.

Otaku, did you even read the damn article before coming up with that dumbass reply? the whole point is that videogames are being blamed for children's acts of violence. what i said was that, if a parent provides their kid w/a game that they obviously shouldn't be playing, and the kid subsequently (or consequently) re-enacts some act of violence from that game, then the PARENTS are to blame, not the video game company. please, pull your head out of your ass and read what i said before responding again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if GTA:SA has a rating of "M", doesn't that cover the unlockable content as well?

Perhaps that content would render the title "AO", but it's not like it was discovered on some Disney DVD.

Kudos to that, we've got bigger problems right now.

And now to address the "debate" unfolding below it.

-The ESRB cannot be expected to rate content that is locked out and unaccessable in normal game play. The player does not unlock the minigames by playing well, or doing some special in-game action. In fact, the executable has to be patched to remove the locks that prevent the player from seeing the content. To accuse them of wrongdoing would be like accusing a broom manufacturer of making a dangerous product because if you sharpen the end and stab someone they could be injured.

-As for the military, no one I know who is currently in the military has recieved any computer-based training for field combat. There is some truth to the theory that games in which you harm human-like figures can lower ones hesitation toward violence but that's about all. Speaking from the standpoint of someone who is a competition marksman, an avid airsofter, and a fan of video games, I can say that the games played no positive role in evolving the other two skills which are very similar to combat training in themselves.

-Lastly, it is ultimately the responsibility of the parent to watch what their children are doing. If they are doing something they shouldn't be, the parent should discipline them. It's not that difficult for the parent to do and parents must also remember that their kids can and will get away with things and it is far better for them to get away with a little pornography than drugs or something more damaging.

"To accuse them of wrongdoing would be like accusing a broom manufacturer of making a dangerous product because if you sharpen the end and stab someone they could be injured."

owned.

Okay, if the stores are letting people under 17, isn't that the store's fault? When my friend bought GTA:SA, he was required by the store to have a parent/guardian sign a paper saying that the game is meant for MATURE players. The parent that signed the paper knew that his son wouln't be affected by the game because he has more than half a brain. I've played GTA:SA and I do really like the game. I know that I shouldn't beat a cop with a dildo that I found in the SAPD HQ showers! I like games of that nature because they let out frustration that you can get when in high school. Video games also let me do things violent that I'd never be able to do in real life (Halo 2 anybody?)

I think that the only "problem" with Mature rated games is that some of the parents don't really care if their child has a game where you can shoot a cop in the head while talking to a hooker in the middle of the street. Some of those same parents don't care if they see a R-rated movie. I bet those parents also let their child go onto the internet without any limitations on what web site they can or cannot see! So the problem is probably that the parent's aren't involved in their child's life, or Target hired some new emplyee that doesn't know how to ask for I.D.

Just my $.02

If the kid has the ability to go out and mod GTA:SA BY HIMSELF to get this, you have bigger worries on your hands. Remember kids, this isn't "Unlockabe Content" as such, it is content you need to mod the game to get. If you need to do that, thats like saying "zAMG QUAKE SHOULD BE BANNED BCOZ SUM KID MODDED THE TEXTURES TO PR0N LOL".

Don't punish the kid for playing the game, punish the parents for using the popular game companies as scapegoats because of their own inadequecies.

Joystiq Home
Politician blows hot air over San Andreas


Posted Jul 8, 2005, 8:48 AM ET by Steve Parsons
Related entries: Culture

GTA San Andreas

In the space of 24 hours, parties unknown have blown up the capital city of the country I grew up in, then to end the day, someone was murdered outside my apartment building. So perhaps I’m more than a little off kilter today.

This may go some way to explaining why, when some politician, growing fat on taxpayers money, starts harping on about the evil that is GTA: San Andreas, in light of recent events, I find it hard to take it seriously. According to this blowhard, Leland Yee, the ESRB “has failed our parents”. Well, no, the PARENTS have failed their children, but anyway, he goes on about how the ratings are flawed, and the industry isn’t looking out for our childrens best interests. Wow! Guess I must have missed the meeting where the industry agreed to do what some parents can’t be bothered to do! Sounds like I missed a big one!

There’s a big fat M on the San Andreas box which means it’s rated “M” for MATURE. Why is there never any politician going on about the movies? Because they know damn well that politicians don’t get as much airtime if they’re blathering about the latest Hollywood blockbuster, but games are the evil du jour right now, so any sleazebag politician can hitch his red wagon to the back of the train, and get a few column inches that make Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel go “He really cares for us. He’s trying to protect us from those evil video games. I’ll put my X in his box.”

Chaos has run amok. Evil goes on every day. But at least I can sleep, safe in the knowledge that idiots like Leland Yee are doing their best to protect our children from little shiny disks.


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1. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 9:13 AM ET by ChronoZaga

I'm glad someone else is as disgusted by these kind of publicity stunts as I am.

I wouldn't call my mother a "Slack Jawed Yokel," but she is the kind of person to believe this crap. Thank god I'm an adult now.
2. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 9:41 AM ET by OtakuCODE

Politicians did rail against the movie industry like this way back a long time ago. The movie industry survived. They figured out you have to shovel money into the corrupt hands of the oligarchy running this country. Now look at all that money the videogame industry is earning! And they're only paying 50 to 60% of that money to the government (who did nothing to help them earn it in the first place) in taxes! It's practically criminal if you're looking at it through the jaundiced eyes of a power-mad politico who needs to grease a few more palms, buy a few more votes, and pay to bury a few more hookers. But fear not for your games, wary players. EA is a solid block of coldhearted evil, and they'll play ball. They'll start making the requisite sacrifices.

In the meantime, if you're worrying about your tender young ones... don't. No image on any screen, whether it be of violence, sex, profanity, drugs, whatever, is going to make your kid a worse person. Or a better one. Period. You could strap your kid into a chair, tape his eyes open, and show him ethnic cleansing footage interspersed with rape scenes set to a deathmetal soundtrack and it's not going to change who they are at all. They may not like you much afterwards, but they're not going to kill anyone.
3. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 9:44 AM ET by Sheikh Yerbouti

Rockstar is hurting themselves by not making a statement. I know that the controversy is over a mod, but the ESRB still needs to either impose a fine on Rockstar for hiding even unplayable content.
4. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 9:48 AM ET by Jonic

Damn straight man.

It's a pathetic argument and one that we're all sick of hearing. It's the perfect marriage of lazy journalism and sensationalism.

When are they (the man) just going to back off and accept video games as another form of entertainment?

I haven't heard anything about the London bombings being tied to videogames yet (everything's squarely blaimed on Muslims over here at the moment - lazy journalism rears its ugly head once more) but if I hear anything I'll pass it on.
5. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 10:24 AM ET by R-Bro

I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, San Andreas is a pretty offensive game. It recreates and glorifies a sad, angry, violent lifestyle. OTOH, most parents don't even know that ratings exist, let alone what kind of content is in some of these games. Sad all around, really.
6. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 10:33 AM ET by JP

The difference between games and movies though is that while watching movies you follow a story and have no influence on the outcome of what is shown. But with a game you actively carry out vicious attacks, making you incontrol of the actions. This behaviour is controlled by your brain which in theory means you are training your brain to think/act violently.

discuss.
7. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 11:04 AM ET by Tom

My 2 cents.
If the US military spends millions of dollars on video games to train soldiers how to kill better, is it "possible" that some violent/racist video games can train young gamers (under 18) to be more violent/racist?
If so, shouldn't it be regulated?

I personally wish the gaming industry will just give in and just make adult video games for adults only. Why have a MATURE rating when anyone can purchase them? Maybe if they just follow their own ratings they can get those politico people off the game makers backs. Maybe then game creator can make some really awesome ADULT only games. =)
8. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 11:44 AM ET by Michael

Tom: Retail stores won't carry games rated AO, if for any other reason that most of them are porn related.

Following is a re-enactment of a typical conversation with a parent about to buy San Andreas:

"How old is your son/daughter?"

"Thirteen."

"Well then let me say that this is the dirtiest and possibly the most violent game I've ever played, and I recommend you don't purchase this game for them."

"... That's OK."

In one ear, which seems to act as a mental megaphone, and out to the screaming politicians. If parents paid attention to their kids instead of sedating them with the pretty lights on the big screen, this wouldn't be an issue.
9. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 12:16 PM ET by l0tus

"FINE them for hiding unplayable content?"
are you retarded? they need to fine the dumbass parents that ignore the painfully obvious rating system plastered on the FRONT and BACK of the damn game. im looking at my case right now, and it CLEARLY states:
"Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, and Use of Drugs."
...now, if some worthless parent using a game console as a babysitter chooses to ignore these blatant warnings and still give a game containing all of these things to a 13 year old, it's THEIR fault, not rockstar's. it's time for parents to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they ARE accountable, and that children dont raise themselves.
10. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 12:20 PM ET by brett

Next time anyone here sells this (or any other violent rated M for a reason) game to a parent who doesn't seem to care just tell them.

"In this game you are encouraged to murder police officers, have sex with hookers, run down innocent citizens, and kill beat with a giant dildo"

If that doesn't make them reconsider then they are just idiots and this game can probably parent their kid better anyways.
11. Posted Jul 8, 2005, 1:27 PM ET by OtakuCODE

JP: When playing a videogame you do not carry ou

#11: The military uses special simulations that utilize real looking and feeling controls (guns, cockpits, etc.) in rooms with complete wrap around enviroments. In a situation like this, I do believe a soldier could be trained. The typical home gamer is using a relitivly small, flat screen and a few buttons and joysticks.

i think this is crazy people griping about the best gaming francise ever. GTA is the best game of all time. well that is my opinion. but come all of thease people complaning about it has any one of the ever rilly playd it? doubt it. it is not that bad of a game! it is not graphical as they all say. it dosent show nudity at all in any part of the game. the game still deserves the M rating. nobody knows what there talking about. i mean come on it is just a game. read the back it will tell what is in it. if you dont like it dont by it.

"FINE them for hiding unplayable content?"
are you retarded? they need to fine the dumbass parents that ignore the painfully obvious rating system plastered on the FRONT and BACK of the damn game. im looking at my case right now, and it CLEARLY states:
"Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, and Use of Drugs."
...now, if some worthless parent using a game console as a babysitter chooses to ignore these blatant warnings and still give a game containing all of these things to a 13 year old, it's THEIR fault, not rockstar's. it's time for parents to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they ARE accountable, and that children dont raise themselves.

sed some one earlear

you are exactley right that is what im talking about its not rock stars faoult it is the parents it is on the damn box. come one people the fn box ses it all. the ESRB rated the just right. not why dont all of the damn lazy journalists just shut up about games and shit get to the real news like taurizim. i mean come on you will never stop gamme violince

It is completely retarded to compare a flight simulator training pilots to fly to a computer/console game traning people to kill. A flight simulator has actual controls of the aircraft. with gta your pushing buttons. And with the military they're using video games to train soilders in manuevers not shooting i.e. it teaches the soilder where to be when your entering a room. So its ridiculous to think that moving a mouse around can actually improve a person shooting skills. Kids who commit violent crimes don't do it because they play video games no they do it because they're F'ed up in the head. So don't blame video games maker for screwing up our children blame the crappy parents.