GTA "Hot Coffee" controversy summary
by Conrad Quilty-Harper 
{ Jul 17th 2005 at 12:30PM }
The whirlwind of controversy surrounding the "Hot Coffee" mod for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas is reaching boiling point as multiple high profile critics toss their opinions into the fray. With the anti-violent gaming lobbyists on one side, and with Rockstar on the other, keeping track of the argument isn't easy. The linked article includes all the important quotes from both sides, as well as a new statement from anti-GTA attorney Jack Thompson. Perhaps not surprisingly he thinks Rockstar won't be around much longer stating; "Take a good look at Rockstar. They won't be around in three years." He also thinks that Rockstars parent company, Take-Two, will be in trouble due to its monetary dealings. Whilst that'll be good news for the anti-violent games lobbyists in the short term, Rockstar isn't the only company producing violent games. The issue of violence in games should be addressed as an industry wide issue and should be compared to other types of entertainment (in particular violent movies). Otherwise there'll be a constant stream of shock followed by knee-jerk reactions as the latest version of 'GTA: Sadomasochism' is released.
More on Hot Coffee:
Clinton joins GTA 'Hot Coffee' debacle
San Andreas sex hack found in PS2 game, UK version not
affected by controversy
San Andreas sex scandal
spreads down under
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Imp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
You cannot compare violence in video games to violence in movies because video games are an interactive medium. You are rewarded for killing and mutilation.
Also, with R-rated movies, if you are underage, an adult (presumably in most cases a parent) needs to buy a ticket with you and go into the theater with you. Just because you are at home does not mean it should be expected that you are with a parent/adult.
With this being said, I am still for the video game industry and feel that parents need a better education about their childs hobbies. All they need to do is read a monthly game magazine, and they are good to go.
Kent @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Wow, theres no press like "high profile" critics slamming a mod. This is probably the best free press you can get!
Jimmy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
I'm not familiar with all of Rockstar and Take Two's dealing but saying they wont be around in three years is pretty bold. They've become huge in the last few years and are selling ungodly amounts of games.
chad @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
That lawyer is a presumptuous prick, and I'd take that statement as a threat. The whole thing about "rewards" for violence in videogames, that's bs because in gta there's an equal consequence for violence. In fact there's nothing forcing you to accept the missions if you're not the violent type, much less anyone forcing anyone to buy the game. Movies however, project a version of reality and do not have to give you any consequence of what they are presenting. The viewer can just sit there like a boob and absorb it without any interaction. If games are bad, then maybe chess should have never been made, since it portrays war.
Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
imp, what do you mean you can't compare violence in movies to violence in video games? it's all media.
are you telling me that you don't play violent video games? i think every game i play besides sports games involves violence, and usually it's killing. know what? it's also not a big deal.
and this crap about rockstar not being around in 3 years.. tell you what, if rockstar goes down i'll eat my trackball.
guises @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
has there been any public figure willing to actually stand up to this? or are they all rolling over with the "video games are evil" crowd?
Tim @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
"imp, what do you mean you can't compare violence in movies to violence in video games? it's all media."
Did you just skim through his post? He said "You cannot compare violence in video games to violence in movies because video games are an interactive medium. You are rewarded for killing and mutilation." Of couse it is all media, but there is a big difference between watching and playing.
"are you telling me that you don't play violent video games? i think every game i play besides sports games involves violence, and usually it's killing. know what? it's also not a big deal."
Not a big deal? Why do you think this blog entry is here in the first place? Plus, how old are you? I case you didn't notice (again), he is referring to the younger population.
"and this crap about rockstar not being around in 3 years.. tell you what, if rockstar goes down i'll eat my trackball."
And that was a lame attempt at a comeback. Don't be so sure of yourself either.
Tim @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
On a side note, just the fact where it has gotten to the point in our world where killing people in every way possible is considered entertainment for all ages. And to think that not to long ago we were playing stick ball in the back yard and shooting marbles into circles on the ground and having the time of our lives.
guises @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
has there been any public figure willing to actually stand up to this? or are they all rolling over with the "video games are evil" crowd?
Imp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Yes, some video games that I play are violent. I also watch violent movies. Infact, I have a passion for horror films. I'm not against simulated violence.
But if you are questioning the difference between a violent video game and a violent movie, I'm going to have to ask YOU if you've ever seen a violent movie or played a violent video game.
joe @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
take 1 down 2 more take its place
.bob @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Does it make anyone else wonder who's bribing the polititains speaking out about this? Rival publishers trying to take down the company behind some of the most popular games. Or maybe Rockstar and Take Two have refused to offer them cash to keep the mouths shut. I don't think anyone from Bush's government can't use morals as an arguement when they 1) start wars for their own self interest (not even that of the countries they are running), 2) refuse to accept that they are causing change in global climate, in part, but by far the biggest part, 3) won't give as much aid as they can to those who are living in poverty, 4) don't believe that trade should be fair 5) violate international law by locking up people who have not been trialed in a court of law and stripped of their basic human rights 6) believe that videogames can corrupt youngsters, when said youngsters are OK to use guns which can kill people, 7) are so far in bed with companies who fund their policies that corrupt cannot even begin to describe them.
These polititians don't know what morals are.
I'm not trying to offend any regular American people, and I'm sure their are still some polititians over there who genuinely believe in serving their fine country.
There are far greater issues in the world today, in a world where we see American soldiers on the news cheering after blowing half a building, killing innocent civilians in the process. Perhaps those polititians should look at how that affects the kids rather than some tacky "sex mod" in a video game that their parents should be checking is OK.
I still can't get over the fact of how the game contains violence means the game gets an M rating, but the fact it contains sex makes these people think it should have a *higher* rating...?
chad @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
In response to post #10. Hello, Hillary Clinton is as opposite as you could get from being in Bush's pocket. In fact Sen Lieberman, a democrat, was spearheading the violent game debate years ago, before Hillary even got into public office.
and this "we see American soldiers on the news cheering after blowing half a building, killing innocent civilians in the process" is just BS. I challenge you to link to this footage because I assure you that it is false and a lie. I think you confuse the people of the middle east in general cheering in the streets after the 9/11 attacks.
All your comments, .bob, have nothing whatsoever to do with violence in videogames,
Imp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Good God dude, enough with the Bush bashing and stick to talking about the topic at hand. Holy shit.
Seeing how you mentioned video game ratings tho, something that actually applies here...
The AO rating exists for games that contain sex. Thus, based on the rating system, since the code for this was in the game already, the game SHOULD be AO. Agree or disagree with the rating system or not, this is what the ratings mean.
"ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity."
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols
Alex Anderson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Just out of curiousity, didn't children used to play games like cops and robbers? Cowboys and indians? These games certainly emulated killing, and those children seemed to turn out all right.
Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Tim, i understand that i should not have jumped on Imp in the way that i did. it was an initial reaction, which i have a problem with.
the comment i made about rockstar was not directe at him, however, nor was it a comeback of any kind. i just honestly don't believe that rockstar will be gone for a long, long time.
Tim @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
"Just out of curiousity, didn't children used to play games like cops and robbers? Cowboys and indians? These games certainly emulated killing, and those children seemed to turn out all right."
Your using a stick, if not your own fingers to emulate a gun, shoot someone, and they fall to the ground. They get back up and have fun.
In video games, you get out your shotgun or what have you, load it, blast people into ashes, blood flies everywhere, you get some sort of reward for killing the person, you pick from a range of weapons at your disposal, rather, rinse, repeat.
Nice comparison.
.bob @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
"Good God dude, enough with the Bush bashing and stick to talking about the topic at hand. Holy shit."
Sorry about that, just find it frightning how these polititians have lost perspective, as did I...
"The AO rating exists for games that contain sex. Thus, based on the rating system, since the code for this was in the game already, the game SHOULD be AO. Agree or disagree with the rating system or not, this is what the ratings mean"
I agree with you there, but why does the ratings system have a higher rating for sex than it does for activities which actually harm other people in real life.
I have not played GTA, or any other Rockstar games for that matter, but from what I understand/read GTA contains strong violence and drug abuse/refferences. This I personally think should have been given a higher rating for the violence than it should for an activity which most people who are old enough to buy the game will have experienced themselves.
I'm not saying Rockstar are right or wrong, just the ratings system seems a little strange to me. It's really upto the parents to make sure their kiddies are playing suitable games...
Phil @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Do you all suffer from memory-loss? Back in the late 80s and early 90s you could buy perfect plastic replicas of any gun you can imagine in toy stores. I remember we had Uzis, grenades, butterfly knives, Berettas, etc. They were just like the real things, with removable clips, security mechanisms such as those found on real guns, etc etc. They had to make those guns pink, even swords had to be pink (He-Man's for example) when some controversy broke. What will happen this time around? Flowers will come out of people's heads when you kill them?
PhilJ @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Sorry folks, if parents would take more than 5 minutes out of their oh-so-busy, yuppie, frantic lives, and put down the cigarette, cell phone, and mp3 players, they might then have a chance to watch what their kids are doing.
I have two little kids, and watch their source of entertainment closely. As their parent, I take the penultimate source of responsibility, and expect to be punished if they do something terrible. I agreed to this Contract of Common Sense when their mother and I played in the sack.
Nobody takes responsibility anymore, so the politicians gain political capital playing this game. You are a fool if you think they are doing this out of concern for children, there is no morality on Capitol Hill.
And I JUST BET. You watch: one of the senator's kids goes amuck, a game will get blamed, and the vendor/author as well. NEVER the parents' fault. That would be just ridiculous.
Barry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Tim, I've never bought a game that came with a real shotgun. When I play, I use my finger to press a button. That's not so far removed from using my finger as a gun when playing cops & robbers.
dougie thomson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
for fucks sake its a game the government should be worrying about goerge bush,bin laden and all the fucking suicide bobmers blowing cunts up not worring about a sex scene in a GAME thats right a GAME, the govenment needs to get a grip and get there priorities right and a bigh shout out to R* for causing trouble for the government coz i personaly think that is great gone there yerself YEEHAA
dougie thomson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
for fucks sake its a game the government should be worrying about goerge bush,bin laden and all the fucking suicide bobmers blowing cunts up not worring about a sex scene in a GAME thats right a GAME, the govenment needs to get a grip and get there priorities right and a bigh shout out to R* for causing trouble for the government coz i personaly think that is great gone there yerself YEEHAA
phantomprophet @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
.bob, it's not for bribes, it's for votes.
The politicians are all "look at me looking out for your kids, re-elect me in X number of months/years"
Remember Hilary Clinton is one of the people freaking out about this and she is up for re-election soon.
Imp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
Just because people are strapping bombs to themselves does not mean that that is the only thing politicians can talk about.
Just because a war is going on does not mean that everything else should be ignored.
Stop being childish.
dougie thomson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
yes i agree but when they start blaming games like gta for underage sex and young people kicking someone to death because one wee arsehole sez i saw it on a game it is a big deal because that is not the game companys fault its a little thing called bad parenting because it does have an 18rating so what are the government moning for people under 18 shoudnae even be playing it
Dealjobber @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
God of War, Leisure Suit Larry: MCL? What about these games? Each with material just as sexually explicit as the hot coffe mod for GTA, except these games don't require a mod for it.
Gumbydammit @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
All this is is another excuse to condemn a media and its evolving standards that the 'older' generation doesn't fully accept. 10 years ago, it was Beavis and Butthead. 20 years ago, it was hippies. 30 years ago it was the Beatles. 40 years ago, it was Elvis. Do you see the similarites? Each was going to bring about the end of civilzed society as we know it.....yet, just as always, society managed to keep right on ticking because, contrary to what the dweebs in DC think, people in mainstream society CAN and WILL think for themselves and about 99.999% of the population will be able to seperate fact from fiction and laugh about it.
Priest @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
hello not to get on the sore subject but A)it is just a game. (B) Parents need to be the ones held responsible for what their kids do and the gov needs to lay off the game industry. sidenote I am a parent of four children and I take responsiblity for each of them. (C) I am a hardcore gamer always have been always will be can anyone tell me how to unlock the hot coffee mod on the xbox version. if so then please email me at Anupriest@yahoo.com. Ps no I am not a perv I just feel that if I own a game I should have the right to all content in it.
Luke @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
^ I agree with Priest.
Ganon @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
People just need to raise their kids not to be so stupid...My little bro is 9, plays GTA, and fully understands that its not real, people now-a-days are just so stupid, their kids are screwed
Gary @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM
All of the games should only be available to people over 18, in my opinion the games content is TOTALY unsuitible for anyone under the age of 18. Research has proven that children are affected by videogames, and when I have kids, I certainly wont be introducing them to computer games.
I've played and owned every version of GTA and love them to bits, but I recognise the dangers there.
As for this mod, anyone who has the internet and is capable of downloading the mod to alter this game to see SIMULATED sex, probably has the ability to go online and download images and videos of ACTUAL sex! Whats been done to stop children look at pornography?