http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/ Joystiq Comments for Gabe Newell not happy with next-gen consoles http://www.joystiq.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.joystiq.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
Overall, making these systems incredibly complex is not good for anyone except the engineers who develop more complex game consoles.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
I mean, coders will adapt, and the people who don't adapt will end up doing PSP games, but make no mistake, it is a HUGE shift to running in-game processing tasks as distinct and parallel entities. I can vaguely imagine how I'd code AI or some such for multiple processors, but I can't even concieve of how to lay the groundwork for managing those processors properly.

I mean, this is all very speculative - nobody really knows what's going on with the PS3 or Xbox 360. It certainly is true that these claims of huge power are essentially founed on unproven or undeveloped technology, however.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
I more of a bargain bin gamer on the 'Station, only the odd GTA/MGS makes me want a game straight away, and on that note let's hope Revolution games stay the same price. Most 1st party N games are bought the second they hit.

Hopefully quality isn't a problem, just depends on cost / developer commitment.

And length, well I don't mind short games providing they have quality and replay value - Yoshi's Touch & Go is a recent testament to that.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
And once more middleware vendors wrap their heads around multicore architecture, that will help Joe Developer make the transition.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
What is going to happen is most developers will create half-assed games that only use one core because it's easier that way. The end result is graphics quality that is slightly higher than the Xbox for a lot of future games.

This is why the Rotary engine (for cars) never really took off. It's a great idea and gives you tremendous power and efficiency, but it's so complex and difficult to manufacture that nobody really wants to make cars that use it.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
And yes, a lot of new PC's are using multiple cores.. What the Problem?

The Developers are just unhappy because they wont be able to get away with sloppy programming anymore (No more MOH:BackDoorassault games).
]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
I would argue that the Rotary's problem is its lack of gas milage and poor emmisions. Anyway.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
The more effort that goes into making next-gen games; with their higher poly counts, higher resolution textures and multi-threaded programming means only studios with deep pockets will be able to survive. They sure as hell aren't going to be taking any risks.

Instead of new ideas, we are going to see the same old genres. Say hello to countless Halo / GTA ripoffs or drek licensed from movies, comics or movies based on comics.

I don't like where the industry is heading and the majority of shelf space in the game store is already dedicated to games with bigger marketing budgets than they have development budgets.

Gabe is right.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
It's only a problem if you're dumb enough not to license a decent engine and try and write your own...

The market is there, the hardware is there, developers will either sink or swim...]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
It doesn't help that Valve has never created a 3D engine of their own, either. I wonder which engine they will license then "rewrite" next?
]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
What this means for the 2006 consoles is that the biggest development houses will still make games for the 360 and the PS3 -- but all the other developers, the ones who can't afford to double the budget it takes to produce every title, will move their focus elsewhere. To the Revolution, perhaps. Or to the handheld market. Or they may even take advantage of the next-gen consoles' reverse compatibility and stick to writing Xbox and PS2 titles.

In general it's a bad idea to reduce the number of developers that are producing games for your console. That's what ultimately killed every console Sega and Atari made, and it's what people say is killing Nintendo now. I hope Sony and Microsoft aren't shooting themselves in the foot with their lust for bleeding-edge tech.
]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
As a consumer, why should I give a crap about all these anyway? Increasing game price? That's a BS argument. What did you guys do during SNES days? How about this thing called inflation?? I paid $60US for Street Fighter 2 in 1992, which is $81 in today's money.

All these "don't go there cuz I suck!" talks from devs are pathetically laughable.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
so yes, it will be harder. yes, smaller companies won't have the budget to make console games anymore. oh well. i wouldn't mind if there were 3 releases for my system a month if they were solid games. it's not like i buy more than one a month to begin with.

besides, if anyone wants to cold old-school games, the pc has a market where you can make games that are low-end requirements just fine, and they spread well. look at soldat or fate. if not pc, still got the gba and ds and psp. like someone else said, the ps2 and xbox as well.

fun times lie ahead.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
second, who "frets" about programming for a controller? honestly?]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
i don't know why anyone would say the the hl2 engine (source) is crappy whilst comparing it to ue3. no currently available games use that engine yet. as far as i'm concerned, the source engine is the king of the hill at the moment. disregarding it as a second-rate engine is, well...retarded.

i read somewhere that the xbox 360 will employ some "helper threads" which may actually make development easier. that may be a slight relief. ps3 development sounds like it could be a real nightmare.

btw - i have worked with multiple threads before and chased down deadlocks and obscure seemingly random program crashes caused by syncing issues with the threads. it's feasible to write a complex multi-threaded engine - it's just not a lot of fun.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
operating systems exist to hide the hardware from you.

multiprocessor machines have existed for quite a while, now. just create your threads and the os will schedule them using available processors.
]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/
games totally bypass oses. direct to hardware.

as usual, the public shows up to try to convince everyone that it is they who know all about the subject at hand - not the freakin expert in the industry.

just typing the words "he doesn't know what he's talking about - programming is easy" doesn't make it true, and so basically its a waste of bandwidth.

here's hoping xna will be something that micro$oft makes successful - and not just vaporware.]]>Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PMhttp://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/25/gabe-newell-not-happy-with-next-gen-consoles/Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM