Jury doesn't buy "GTA made me do it" claim
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Aug 10th 2005 at 1:00PM }
Jurors deliberated for just over an hour
yesterday before convicting 20-year-old Devin Moore for the 2003 slayings of three police officers. The defense team
had attempted to blame GTA—which Moore spent hours playing—and childhood abuse for Moore's actions. When Moore was
apprehended on the day of the shootings he had told police, "Life is a video game. You've got to die sometime."
Thankfully, the judge had barred testimony linking the triple-homicide to any of the GTA games. However, the families
of the slain officers did file a civil
suit against Take-Two and several retail stores. No trial date has been set for that lawsuit.
[via GameInsider]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
WebPimp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
While there was a tragedy within this headline, it also should note that there are some intelligent people out there that realize video games don’t do this. In referencing the recent article released in the “The Economist”, video games have nothing to do with making someone go violent. I agree with that, as well as others I am sure. Personally, if you are running around murdering people, you had issues way before playing a video game.
vectorelement @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
The keyword(s):
-childhood abuse
Enough said.
JamesP @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Good this may be just what the industry needs. Now they can site precident.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
That doesnt even make sense. If that attention craving lowlife wanted to sound like he was actually insane, he should have thought up a line that made sense.
Its true you always end up dieing in life, but how can you relate that to video games? You dont always have to die in video games, when do you ever die in pokemon, and how about games you can beat without dieing? How many famous video game characters have ever died for good? Have you ever fell off a cliff too many times on a mario game that they dont let you play any more mario games because he's dead?
He's such a horrible insane-imitator, take some lessons from Son of Sam, he wasn't really insane, but the notes he left after murdering people would fool anybody. He was just trying to get attention to make his life seem worth something, which it wasnt.
32_Footsteps @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
It warms the cockles of my bitter heart to hear of someone of authority and learning, like a judge, make a ruling like barring GTA-related testimony. It might not always be perfect, but the system works because of things like that.
TJ @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Thank god there is logic left in this world, I was starting to think its a lost cause.
Good news.
Chris K @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Your dad punching you does NOT make you point a gun at another person and pull the trigger.
"Childhood abuse" is a convenient excuse. Take some responsibility for your own actions for a change.
courtney @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
yeah good news, there are some smart people out there that just get it.
Asher @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Take that Jack Thompson!
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
#7:
Childhood abuse does, as numerous scientific studies have shown (not to mention common sense), cause deep mental issues.
As a child, you're innocent, your mind is fragile and needs to be molded in these years. Fearing for your safety from your own parents in your own home causes a fragile young mind to have fear and anger being built up in the deep recesses of your memory and thoughts, only to resurface as something horrible, like this scenario. You think all the people out their who are schizophrenic (sp), depressed, clinically insane, etc. are like that because its their own fault? You know on TV when someone is at a psychologist or psychiatrist's office and they focus on their childhood? Thats because the mind is molded during your chldhood into the person you are as an adult. In some cases, you could just have a random disorder, in other cases, traumatic experiences could cause you're mind to fudge up. Ever heard of Post-Traumatic Stress? People who were in wars and large disasters suffer from it, but do you think its their own fault for not "overcoming" it and "taking responsibility"? Some people with PTS see things that aren't there (like a war veteran seeing images of people dieing and what not) that cause them to freak out and in some cases be violent. Do you think its their own fault for not overcoming this? Anybody who knows anything about this subject will tell you, being beaten as a child (to the point where you fear for your own safety) is one of the most traumatic experiences a human being can go through. Dont try and spread your bullshit that they need to take responsibility for the disorders in their minds.
Can you imagine what it'd be like to be a helpless child being beaten by his own parents in his own home, 2 of the most safest things a child should have? Dont come on here and act like you know what you're talking about and that everybody should be perfect (like you presume you are most likely) no matter what happens to them, and if they aren't, its their own fault. Hitler was severely beaten as a child, think its a coincidence he had so much hatred built up in him?
Why don't you try learning something about whatever you think you know what you're talking about before saying it. People like you are sick and inconsiderate, I bet when you see someone who's a schizo or depressed, you think to yourself "Man, what's wrong with that guy? At least I know I'm doing something right which is why I'm not like him!". They're mental disorders, just as PTS is from being beaten as a child (to the point where you fear for your own safety from your parents in your own home), its a disorder, thats like telling them to take responsibility for getting brain cancer. Disorders will cause your mind to malfunction, be it making you see things that aren't there, be depressed and withdraw from society, or act out in violent ways, but you will probably always be too arrogant to realize this.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Its the video game part thats BS, a simple game, a form of entertainment, doesnt plant seeds of hatred in your mind.
vidGuy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
While I do believe that childhood abuse, PTS, etc are real and do cause trauma, I feel that that defense is used too often and without warrant. I've heard of cases where the defense tried this path, citing a single spanking or something stupid like that.
It's just another part of our society that allows us to point the finger of responsibility on someone else. I do not know the particulars in this case and I frankly do not care. If this guy suffered significant trauma then it was a legitimate claim; but it IS severely misused in our court system.
One of the amazing facts I learned in my freshman Criminal Justice class is that PMS has successfully been used as a defense for murder. A women killed her husband and got off scott free because of the hormonal imbalance. You're telling me that a 40 year old woman (who's been through that time of the month a time or two) doesn't know how to control herself?
And remember, everytime a murderer attempts to blame videogames instead of a real complication for his actions, the industry suffers a hit that isn't warranted, and the media has another example to cite.
McDonald's made you fat? No, you're ability to eat McDonald's while not burning a single calorie all day made you fat.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Oh, and if anybody is going to use my post #4 to contradict what I said in #10, 4 was just about how that one line the guy gave them about video games and dieing are not related, and I dont think anybody would make that connection. Since comparing human lives to video game characters is such a horrible excuse for murder, its evident the guy was just trying to set up the foundation for pleading insanity if need be. How do I know he's not insane? Because it would have been acknowledged by the court and he would have been sent to an assylum, not jail or prison.
My post #10 is about how #7 is wrong, very wrong. That post didnt focus so much on the individual kid, but rather on PTS syndrome as a whole, and how that jackass is too arrogant to realize PTS is a mental disorder that causes to the brain to malfunction, making the fella see things or act abnormally, and that being beaten as a child (and I dont mean just getting a spanking when you do something bad) is a very tramautic experience that will cause PTS syndrome. Whether that kid was severely beaten to the point where he fears for his own safety and life (a traumatizing thing) or if he was just punished painfully and is just using that as an excuse for being a moral and conscience-lacking murderer, I dont know, my post didn't focus on that issue.
Lenbot @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I am glad this kid didn't get away. I bet 100% he planned on trying to use that game for a defense thinking he could cheat out on it. I hope he rots in his jail sell killing innocent cops with lives and familys is not "GTA made me do it"
-Lenbot
Chris K @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
So if I have mental problems, or merely poor childhood experiences, I have free license to commit murder? What about rape? Or theft? My dad spanked me, can I at least commit petty theft without punishment?
Whether someone is aware of the evil of their deeds or not, they should be locked up for committing them. I don't care what they have suffered. Wrong is wrong. PERIOD. How the person came to be a criminal is only useful for purposes of rehabilitation and to prevent others from walking down the same path.
Triple homicide? Sorry, it's life in prison for him. If he "saw something" that "made" him commit the crime as you say some might, would YOU allow him to live next door to you?
I may be "sick and inconsiderate", but at least I don't try to pawn my actions off on an apparent disorder (like this guy attempted, and you seem to be willing to accept).
Chris K @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
You're attacking me here, Jake? This guy committed triple homicide. He pled INNOCENT.
Let me say that again: INNOCENT.
The article doesn't even claim that he was "traumatized" as a kid. It just says he played GTA. And that's why he's innocent.
Given those FACTS, what would you do if he was pronounced innocent and he moved next door to you? Ask him about his childhood? Apologize to him for his treatment by the courts when he was so obviously brainwashed by a video game he bought?
Rot in whatever Hell you believe in, Devin Moore of Fayette, Alabama.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
God dammit Chris K, did you read my post number 13? Let me reiterate myself since you weren't able to comprehend what I said before.
In my post #10, all I'm doing is showing you how wrong you are on how you think no matter the circumstances, the person should accept responsibility. It wasnt focused on that kid who killed those cops, now stop bringing up irrelevant nonsense in an attempt to insult me.
Just go back and read my post #13. Read it over again and comprehend what its saying and quit acting like you know what you're talking about once again because you don't.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I don't know why I'm wasting another post on you but I just wanted to clarify on the irrelevent and immature rubbish you said.
"So if I have mental problems, or merely poor childhood experiences, I have free license to commit murder? What about rape? Or theft? My dad spanked me, can I at least commit petty theft without punishment?"
What a horrible attempt to take something serious and make a humorous yet insulting question out of it. No, if you were in a war and suffered from PTSS and ended up killing someone because you saw something that wasn't real, it doesnt make it OK. All I'm saying is they shouldn't have to take responsibility and blame that they suffer from a mental disorder from being at war. Its not their fault, they shouldn't be treated as a bad person, they do need to be put in a mental safety house or asylum or something, but not be punished in prison. Hitler, for example, did something wrong, because he obviously wasnt just suffering from a short burst of PTSS and accidentally (meaning un-intentionally killing an innocent person) murdering people, I used Hitler only as an example of what child abuse can do to a person, though you seem to think it has no effect.
"Whether someone is aware of the evil of their deeds or not, they should be locked up for committing them. Wrong is wrong."
Are you serious? Well, I it is your opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, so heres mine. Lets say someone runs out of gas on some highway and parks off to the shoulder and leaves his vehicle their and goes to find a payphone. While he's away, a drunk driver or something veers off to the side and has to suddenly swerve back into traffic because you left your car their. The drunk driver, who would have just drifted off to the shoulder, ends up swerving into traffic and killing innocent people and himself in a collision. Now, according to your thought process, the person who ran out of gas and parked off on the shoulder should go to prison, because whether they're aware of it or not, they ended up killing people, and thats wrong, period, no ifs or buts. See how flawed that is. If someone unintentionally kills someone due to PTSS (like I described up above), they shouldnt be punished, though they shouldnt be let free to run around in public, they should go to a rehabilitation center.
"The article doesn't even claim that he was "traumatized" as a kid. It just says he played GTA. And that's why he's innocent."
Once again, since you couldnt comprehend it the first time I said it, I wasnt focusing on the guy's liability if he was acting out in PTSS or just a heartless killer. Do you understand that? Does it make sense to you now? I wasn't focusing on that subject, so quit acting like I was because you don't know what you're talking about.
"I may be "sick and inconsiderate", but at least I don't try to pawn my actions off on an apparent disorder (like this guy attempted, and you seem to be willing to accept)."
Two quotes to reply to this, but first, let me just remind you I wasn't focusing on the guy's innocence or guiltiness, so for the love of christ, quit acting like I was. I was focusing on how traumatic experiences can cause mental disorders that cause people to act out irrationally and unintentionally. Do you finally get it?
"The article doesn't even claim that he was "traumatized" as a kid. It just says he played GTA. And that's why he's innocent."
That comes straight out of your mouth, first you compare yourself to him because he claimed he was insane, and now you tell us he never claimed insanity.
And of course, this ones mine.
"I bet when you see someone who's a schizo or depressed, you think to yourself "Man, what's wrong with that guy? At least I know I'm doing something right which is why I'm not like him!"."
Wow, I was right, you do try and compare yourself to people who have disorders in an attempt to make yourself look better. While we both agree the kid wasn't insane, you truly are a horrible person if you meant what you said. What kind of a human being compares himself to someone with a mental disorder in an attempt to make himself look better? Are you that insecure about yourself and that heartless to say "At least I dont blame what I do on being insane (assuming the person actually is insane, and we're not talking about that moore guy by the way)"?
Chris K @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Sigh...
I'm attempting to insult you? I think you're overestimating your importance to me, Jake. I don't understand why you'd care in the first place, as I'm just a "jackass" to you. (An insulting term if I ever heard one.)
Regardless, you said:
> that jackass is too arrogant to realize PTS is
> a mental disorder that causes to the brain to
> malfunction, making the fella see things or
> act abnormally
But then you said:
> Since comparing human lives to video game
> characters is such a horrible excuse for
> murder
But theoretically, if he were "seeing things" as you described (and I certainly agree is possible), could he not believe his life is a video game, so his mind could justify his actions?
This doesn't mesh with your statement claiming that seeing people as video game characters isn't an excuse for murder...
> In my post #10, all I'm doing is showing you
> how wrong you are on how you think no matter
> the circumstances, the person should accept
> responsibility. It wasnt focused on that kid
> who killed those cops, now stop bringing up
> irrelevant nonsense in an attempt to insult
> me.
You were speaking in theoreticals. If your theory does not hold up to an actual application (ie: Devin Moore), it is flawed. I fail to see how you you can claim that your rant about mental disorder is unrelated to a discussion about a guy who just pleaded insanity for triple homicide.
You took issue with the fact that I claimed he's responsible. You believe that given enough abuse, a person is not responsible for his actions. I believe that people are responsible for their actions no matter what the circumstances. I reject insanity as an absolver of guilt. There's the disagreement. Please cool it with the attacks and belittling remarks. I'm not a moron, I just disagree with you.
Chris K @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
> I used Hitler only as an example of what
> child abuse can do to a person, though
> you seem to think it has no effect.
I never said child abuse does not affect people. I said it's no excuse. BIG difference.
> [snipped car example]
> See how flawed that is.
The example is flawed. Parking your car is not a crime. A possibly better example would be someone who creates a gun. They are not responsible for how the gun is used, good or bad.
"The article doesn't even claim that he was "traumatized" as a kid. It just says he played GTA. And that's why he's innocent."
That comes straight out of your mouth, first you compare yourself to him because he claimed he was insane, and now you tell us he never claimed insanity.
HOLY OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTE, BATMAN! I NEVER said he was innocent. "And that's why he's innocent" is a continuation of the previous sentences describing his claim of innocence. Please don't stoop to politician-like sound bites.
> Do you understand that? Does it make sense to you now?
A repeated theme from you. I don't misundestand the facts. I just disagree with you. PLEASE stop treating me like I'm a moron. If for no other reason than it illustrates your arrogance and weakness of position.
> Wow, I was right, you do try and compare yourself to
> people who have disorders in an attempt to make
> yourself look better.
You know what? I'm done. I'm more than willing to debate, but when you quote YOURSELF, try to pass it off as me, AND make claims like this with absolutely ZERO truth to it in attempt to make me look like a bad person, you've crossed the line. I'm not going to grace your little character assassination campaign with another post.
You need to learn to speak to others with respect. It's easy to hide in the nebulous mass of the Internet and shout insults at people, but it's just as easy to ignore your flaming.
Jake Fry @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
After skimming through what you sent, I realize you dont comprehend words very well. Its funny, I specifically wrote all my posts here as neat and organized and easily understandable as I could, but some people just have trouble reading and comprehending. I'm not going to go through and point out where you misinterpretted something I said and then try and turn it back on me when you don't even know what you're talking about because you cant comprehend anything. But I'm sure all the people who can successfully read are finding you as funny as I am when you think you know what you're talking about, but really have no idea.
If you want to amuse yourself, why don't you clear your mind, eliminate all distractions, and then carefully read and COMPREHEND, (thats the important part, comprehending) what I sent and then what you sent. If you can successfully read and comprehend all those posts, you'll find yourself very funny and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
But I dont feel like gettin in an internet arguement over whos right, you can take what I said and do whatever the hell you feel like doing with it, take it apart and prove me wrong or whatever the hell you're doing. I hope I didnt ruin your honor or something, I dont know why the fudge else you would be trying to do whatever you're trying to do (its hard to tell because you never know what you're talking about but you think you have a good point).
I'm not wasting anymore of my time on the likes of you. I hope you go back and read and comprehend all that, you seriously wouldn't have any idea what the hell you were thinking, just as none of us do.
Just let me repeat one last thing as easily-understandably as I can, and then maybe, just maybe, you'd be able to understand why you haven't had a clue on what you're talking about. I WAS NEVER FOCUSING ON WHETHER MOORE WAS INNOCENT OR GUILTY OR HAD TPSS. I MAY HAVE MENTIONED HIM HERE AND THERE, BUT I NEVER FOCUSED ON ANY OF THOSE POINTS. Do you undertand yet? I dont know how many times I have to tell you, but you still think I was for some reason, leading you to think you know what you're talking about, when you really dont. Its amazing, after telling you the same thing over and over again (and not just that last point), you still think differently and try to respond when you have no idea what you're talking about, its beyond amazing, its sad. Seriously, I keep going back and reading your last two comments, you seriously have no idea what you're talking about, even though I have numerously told you what I said and time after time tried to explain it as easily and understandably as possible. Do you even speak English? This is unbelievable. You think you have a point, but anybody who can understand the English language who has gone back and read my comments and then read yours will agree with me, you completely mis-understood almost everything I said, and then you try and reply to it when you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
I hope you understood me when I said I'm not wasting anymore time on you though.