Xbox Live! users prejudiced against women?

by Conrad Quilty-Harper { Aug 17th 2005 at 1:35PM }

Gamegal has posted an article which covers the experiences of a female gamer who likes to game with Xbox Live! Unfortunately, she didn't find it all that thrilling, with male gamers generally being chauvanistic or the complete opposite, gentlemanly (not exactly want you want in a game of Halo 2 rockets). Either way, the article conveys the feeling that women Xbox Live! gamers are "guests" and "outsiders" to the male dominated online arena.

From my own experiences as a male gamer that uses Xbox Live, a lot of the people I've encountered in general have been complete and utter asshats. You've got sore losers, idiotic winners, cheats, hackers, dunces singing at the top of their voices, homophobes and rascists. The list goes on. Whenever I've played with female gamers I personally don't bat an eyelid, but I have encountered others giving asking idiotic, rude and downright immature comments (OMG it's a girl, teehee) to female gamers. Frankly, women gamers are the only group it's possible to recognise because of the voice communication, and therefore they get a lot of the flak from the Xbox Live! lowlife mentioned earlier.

Xbox Live! has levelled the playing field for anyone to get online and game from their living room. But the problem of discrimination against female gamers needs to be addressed. What would you suggest Microsoft do to address this inequality? Opinions from guys and gals welcome!

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

tpp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

This is exactly the reason why adult gamer communities like seasonedgamers.com exist.

We have several couples among the group, who enjoy playing on XBL together, but have found it to be a very frustrating experience, because of the treatment of women online.

You should check SG out, if you're tired of the punks and cheaters online. The women in the group have a very active Halo 2 group and play together among the women all the time.

SG forevar! Peace out! :)

Stevil @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Here's a novel idea - make all the characters in the next version of Halo women.

SpeedFleX @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I think u should just ban people like that from xbox live, its not right women are just as good as men, i mean any color, country, language shoultd't mean jack we are all just PEOPLE and all live on this worl called EARTH and just all wanna have FUN.

Dave @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I've used XBox Live! before--but I'm also a PC gamer. I think some people on Live! are console-only gamers. Imagine PC Gamers who aren't smart enough to figure out how to use PCs. That's what we're dealing with.

GTgamer @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

"Rule #1 : Be a gentleman. Never teabag a lady after a successful kill. It's very uncouth."

ErbilT @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

After reading 2 and 3, I feel redeemed as a male gamer...

Dave @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Everybody has something to overcome in their life. The aforementioned "asshats" have a personality disorder to overcome that will sentence them to a life of mediocrity at best. On the other hand, women who can overcome this barrier and learn to put people in their place when need be will be stronger for it and gain more self confidence as well.

Juan Carlos @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Umm, use voice masking...

Or better yet, castrations for idiots, that way they can't reproduce either.

Alkaiser @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Why exactly does the issue of female discrimination need to be addressed BEFORE the greater issues of everything else brought up?

There's no need to focus on exterminating a particular facet of asshattery, when the real solution is to find a way to rid yourself of the asshats. Saying "you can be an asshat, just not one particular kind of asshat." is stupid and doesn't solve anything.

Recongoddess @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I somewhat agree that 50% of the guys on XBL are a*sholes, but I'm not going to say all of them are... that's why I game with a large group of friends (guys) and hardly ever go into matches where I don't know anyone.. but I don't let the guys that act like little boys bother me either.. there is a 'mute player' option on every game I play on xbl...

Recongoddess @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

and GTgamer.. I don't mind a teabag if I die after a good firefight.. but you can expect the same in return from me.. tho I throw in a spin here and there too o:)

Drewjames @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

it's called freedom of speech, ignore them or fight fire with fire

Tom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

'Umm, use voice masking...'

Why should they use voice masking? Females have just as much right to be playing videogames as much as men do. They shouldn't have to hide away because they aren't a common idiotic male gamer.

nama rupa @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I agree, females shouldnt have to voice mask. And yes there are to many asshats on LIVE.

Like seasongamers, I belong to the Xbox Nonclanner (http://x-n-c.com) which is an adult community of gamers which has several female member where everyone is treated equally. Obviously by the name we arent a clan that competes, although some of our members belong to other clans, we game to have fun. If you all are looking for a place to meet follow like minded individuals come over and introduce yourself.

Palmer @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I'm a Live player and lots of people on Xbox Live are apparently racist, homophobes, etc (Look for the internet fucktard theory on Penny Arcade) but sometimes you get those brilliant games. For example a mexican girl proclaimed her love for in a game of one flag CTF in headlong only for me to sacrafise my life for her against an invisible blue team member.

Derek @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I'm a male gamer on Xbox Live and although I use my communicator, I hardly ever talk. I pretty much just use it to listen to everyone else's idiotic banter, at which point I can give them bad feedback if they say something offensive. That's the point of the feedback system. It's only good if people use it. Hopefully these asshats will eventually all be kicked off if the good gamers use the feedback system as it has been intended to be used. And if you want to talk, well it's your choice to talk. And that means you should be prepared for the consequences. In this case, much of the consequence is the "OMG, it's a girl" crap, but if it really bothers you that much, use the feedback system.

DigitalStupor @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

There is nothing more frustrating than playing with kids who have too much mountain dew in their system and not enough physical activity in

their daily regimen, who can't shutup about how awesome they are, and how much you suck. The biggest problem with Halo2, is that so many

kids are playing it way too much, it leads to a new level of idiocy - how many of us have experienced the following on live recently:

1) "Rank Whoring" - Games where guys kill themselves repeatedly in an effort to ensure they level down quickly. A recent game of mine,

two guys combined for -76 suicides!!!! That was a new record - afterwards, they actually hung around, and I told them I was reporting them

as cheaters. Their response: "It's not cheating, they can only ban us for a week!" Wow...Bungie, I thought you fixed the suicide problem? Please ban these guys for longer periods!

2) Quitters - Sometimes, you just have to quit a round. Something pops up like a phone call you have to take, a door bell rings, etc.

Some people though are using quitting as another way to ensure they level down quickly. I saw one guy's games at Bungie.net recently who

quit out of 20 games in a row in the same day! I am sure there are worse cases than this too. A lot of people quit because they don't

like a map (and I've had my times where I didn't want to play Ivory tower for the third time in a row!) - but most of these chronic

quitters are doing #1, and something needs to be done about this. My simple solution - put a ten minute hold on that account so they can't

join a matchmade game for that period. If they had a real reason to quit out, they won't mind the delay (because they will be busy).

3) "My Other Account" - This is becoming my favorite line...at the end of the round, the level 15 you just played against will be sure to

tell everyone else that he is a level 35 on his other account. Note to these people, I DON'T CARE! I only have time for one account

myself, and I really don't see any reason for a second one. Besides, we all know his "other account" was banned because of cheating. You

aren't a level 35 if you cheated to get there.

4) Boredom? TK Time! - Guys play it so much, they are completely bored with the game. They go in to matchmaking so they can "goof off"

and make no concerted effort to play a competitive match. They usually spend most of their time finding map exploits, are maybe grab a

warthog and try to run over everything in sight, which includes their own teammates. If you question their skill, they usually try to pick

a "virtual fight" with you, which means they will attack you, and try to TK you. This kind of behavior leads to most of your team quitting out, and it ends up being you verse both your idiotic teammate who won't leave, and the entire 4-some squad you are fighting against. I do my best to make sure these guys TK me early on in the round so I can eject them from the game!

5) Mad Skillz? - I always (every other game) seem to be pitted against a foursome in Team Slayer which has ONE amazing player. My squad will get, say even scores across the board (ex: 14-13-12-7), the other team will be more like 25-10-7-2 or maybe 32-10-5-5 - there is ALWAYS this one guy who seems to be everywhere on the map, and getting ALL the kills. I understand some people just get that awesome at a game (and i have had a few lucky rounds myself), but some stuff doesn't add up at times. I wouldn't get frustrated at this if it was a high level player, but there are so many cases where it will be a low level player, probably someone who's "other account" is a 35, or who has rank-whored recently from 35 to 10. Sometimes, it's just because they are using some sort of map mod/cheat - it's hard to identify real cheaters from just really good players, but you can see them if you put the pieces together. Too many no-scopes? How bout single shots with battle rifles to the head that kill instantly? How bout shooting you through a wall even though you are crouched and cloaked with camo? I have seen some of these cheats in action, so I know they are out there. In a fast paced game, it's hard to tell when someone's cheating, but when the scores are all unbalanced at the end, and it's the lowest level player who got it, something's up!

It's more than idiocy towards woman on Live, there is a culture problem with today's young men that needs some serious retooling. Have you seen how teens treat girls at school now-a-days? The anonymity of live only adds to the fire.

Richard @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Any way a voice-changing box could be jaced into an XBox Live headset?

DigitalStupor @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

There is nothing more frustrating than playing with kids who have too much mountain dew in their system and not enough physical activity in their daily regimen, who can't shutup about how awesome they are, and how much you suck. The biggest problem with Halo2, is that so many kids are playing it way too much, it leads to a new level of idiocy - how many of us have experienced the following on live recently:

1) "Rank Whoring" - Games where guys kill themselves repeatedly in an effort to ensure they level down quickly. A recent game of mine, two guys combined for -76 suicides!!!! That was a new record - afterwards, they actually hung around, and I told them I was reporting them as cheaters. Their response: "It's not cheating, they can only ban us for a week!" Wow...Bungie, I thought you fixed the suicide problem? Please ban these guys for longer periods!

2) Quitters - Sometimes, you just have to quit a round. Something pops up like a phone call you have to take, a door bell rings, etc. Some people though are using quitting as another way to ensure they level down quickly. I saw one guy's games at Bungie.net recently who quit out of 20 games in a row in the same day! I am sure there are worse cases than this too. A lot of people quit because they don't like a map (and I've had my times where I didn't want to play Ivory tower for the third time in a row!) - but most of these chronic quitters are doing #1, and something needs to be done about this. My simple solution - put a ten minute hold on that account so they can't join a matchmade game for that period. If they had a real reason to quit out, they won't mind the delay (because they will be busy).

3) "My Other Account" - This is becoming my favorite line...at the end of the round, the level 15 you just played against will be sure to tell everyone else that he is a level 35 on his other account. Note to these people, I DON'T CARE! I only have time for one account myself, and I really don't see any reason for a second one. Besides, we all know his "other account" was banned because of cheating. You aren't a level 35 if you cheated to get there.

4) Boredom? TK Time! - Guys play it so much, they are completely bored with the game. They go in to matchmaking so they can "goof off" and make no concerted effort to play a competitive match. They usually spend most of their time finding map exploits, are maybe grab a warthog and try to run over everything in sight, which includes their own teammates. If you question their skill, they usually try to pick a "virtual fight" with you, which means they will attack you, and try to TK you. This kind of behavior leads to most of your team quitting out, and it ends up being you verse both your idiotic teammate who won't leave, and the entire 4-some squad you are fighting against. I do my best to make sure these guys TK me early on in the round so I can eject them from the game!

5) Mad Skillz? - I always (every other game) seem to be pitted against a foursome in Team Slayer which has ONE amazing player. My squad will get, say even scores across the board (ex: 14-13-12-7), the other team will be more like 25-10-7-2 or maybe 32-10-5-5 - there is ALWAYS this one guy who seems to be everywhere on the map, and getting ALL the kills. I understand some people just get that awesome at a game (and i have had a few lucky rounds myself), but some stuff doesn't add up at times. I wouldn't get frustrated at this if it was a high level player, but there are so many cases where it will be a low level player, probably someone who's "other account" is a 35, or who has rank-whored recently from 35 to 10. Sometimes, it's just because they are using some sort of map mod/cheat - it's hard to identify real cheaters from just really good players, but you can see them if you put the pieces together. Too many no-scopes? How bout single shots with battle rifles to the head that kill instantly? How bout shooting you through a wall even though you are crouched and cloaked with camo? I have seen some of these cheats in action, so I know they are out there. In a fast paced game, it's hard to tell when someone's cheating, but when the scores are all unbalanced at the end, and it's the lowest level player who got it, something's up!

It's more than idiocy towards woman on Live, there is a culture problem with today's young men that needs some serious retooling. Have you seen how teens treat girls at school now-a-days? The anonymity of live only adds to the fire.

Joystiq, please delete the previous post if you can, the format was horrible (I copy and pasted from Notepad!)

Senor @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

The 360 should have one more version of live that players are put in if they are fucktards to anyone. Then they can go play Halo 3 and just suck on each other's nutsacks for all I care.

guises @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

"What would you suggest Microsoft do to address this inequality?"
-----------------------

this is silly. might as well be: "How do you get rid of ass hattery on the internet?" you don't. never ever.

not to seem insensitive, but this is only a problem if you turn it into one - or, more precisely, a problem that we all share and hence: a feature. girls may get the shorter end of the stick here but it's only 'cause they're in the minority and there ain't nothin' that can be done about that that hasn't been tried already.

David @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Opinions that offend me should be illegal.

Billkwando @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I blame Microsoft for their early sale pitches on XBox Live. I was a beta tester and their MAIN sales pitch was "Talk smack online to your friends!"

Not "strategize", not "coordinate"...."talk smack"

Whatever bright marketing guy who's idea it was to push that concept should be hung up and smacked in the jigglies.

I even heard some little kids in a game store talking to their uncle about Live, and basically they were saying that their uncle taught them that you're "supposed" to irritate people and talk sh*t.

I suppose these are the same guys who used to play Capcom Vs SNK and put a 5 yr old on the mic so you think you're playing with a little kid and take it easy, and then they start unleashing insanely cheap combos on you....and you ask the kid and he goes "oh yeah, that's my dad/cousin/uncle playing"

Jester @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Guys are no match for girls in online games. They act in one of three ways.

1) They act like asshats and single the female player out (ie: "OMFG! It's a GIRL! What size are your breasts?!")
2) They are extreemly polite. (Do they think they are going to land a virtual halo date or something? I've had guys stop outside the hill after clearing it and saying to the female odd-duck "after you!")
3) There are also those guys out there who are entirely indifferent to the fact that a girl just pwn3d them and proceeded to teabag them. (Of course that is just a facade, as they are really thinking the following: "Oh, crap! I just got pwn3d by a freaking GIRL!" or "Wow, she's pretty good, I wonder if I'd have a shot with a gamer girl.." or "I wonder what she's wearing/I bet her controller is pink"... A word to the wise, her controller is not pink, she probably already has a boyfriend b/c she's sweet, and she's probably wearing the same thing you bought at aber-finchy and crotch that you think shows off your not-entirely-soggy gamer's gut.)

The problem isn't the guys online, the problem is simply guys. Guys are idiots around women, even around just the electronically trasfered voices of women, and for the record, voice masking solves the problem pretty well. MY sweet gamer girl uses it, and you weren't any the wiser that it was really a chick that pwn3d you that bad. (If you knew, you might have cried, but you would have been polite and muted your mic first, b/c your that kind of guy)

Sander @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Why not use speech to text software so that when you speak, it "types" the message out for you and it's displayed ingame as a text message. This neatly avoids the voice identification of women, and also saves your eardrums from being ripped apart by idiots. It's probably a lot less distracting, too.

Vaserius @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Calling someone a "fag" on Xbox Live doesn't make you a homophobe, it makes you an juvenile middleschooler. For them, it has no sexual context at all. That doesn't mean it isn't offensive to homosexuals, but it also doesn't mean the offender is anti-gay.

Billkwando @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

^idiot

Billkwando @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

^idiot

Jester @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

"Why not use speech to text software so that when you speak, it "types" the message out for you and it's displayed ingame as a text message."

HA! That'd be the day! I am a huge fan of voice recognition, but it's not at all at that level of complexity yet. Can you see gamers, in the heat of an intense match, calmly saying "Hey! The red dude has our freakin' flag!." Of course the gamer would have to saying it slowly and carfully enunciate his words, or else you would receive: "a the red load scott hour flag" (For the record, I actually typed that with voice recognition, i did not make up that translation.) Throw in all the yelling and slang that's rampid online, and you've got one helluva goofy message history on your hands.

b @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

#22, it's not that guys are "no match" for girls, it's just that guys that play games this days aren't necesarilly geeks, while most girls that play are geeks (hence, a minority).

Besides, how feminine can a girl that plays Halo be anyway? She can, but what are the odds? I think they must be used to that, since after all, a geeky girl knows that girls don't play that shit very much. (And if not, their anti-social, so what do they care anyway)

Daishalish @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I, as a female gamer, used to be bothered by these problems, and I, as an angered gamer, used to cuss out, insult, and tear apart every male that told me to have my balls drop prior to finding out I was a girl. I still get pissed and sometimes occasionally yell, "I'm a girl you retard." BUT! As the first post mentioned, SeasonedGamers.com gave me a new start on Halo2. I started playing H2 on XBL!, well.. pretty much right after the game came out, and it took me till this May to find SG. Since then all I have to do is go online and play with the people on my newly re-vamped friends list of SG.com members. I no longer have to worry OR shout about people being dicks to me on H2, cuz I'm either playing with mature people, or my mature buddys from SG will defend my honor :)

Thanks SG! and Screw immature gamer men :)

~Dai

michael @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

It's obvious isn't it? Voice scramblers Microsoft just scrambles your voice so you all sound the same, or give you the option to. Or give you an EQ or pitch bender you can muck with in voice control settings. Either that or we kill all the desperate loser gamers out there, but then who would i have to kill?

Daishalish @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

bandersnatch @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Guys behave like this with wimmin because they're taught not to have much self-esteem or respect for themselves.

If they did, they wouldn't bother with the effort to belittle someone they didn't even know. The only people I give a damn about the ones I have a highly valued opinion of. Otherwise, they're below me and why would I bother with them?

When we teach our boys this, this stupidity between the sexes will end.

Dave Himself @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

All the kids rag on me cause I am old. And I sound old. They say "did you get the old dude?" and "hey old dude get the sniper" and "Oh my god, how old are you dude?"

I don't wonder what can be done though? I just get over it. You are alone on your couch having a ball in an alernate universe don't let some dissembodied heckling ruin it for you.

In fact I am going to go play Halo2 right now. I hope I can find that narrow middle ground between "asshattery" and condesending gentlemanlyness.

bandersnatch @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

"I don't wonder what can be done though? I just get over it. You are alone on your couch having a ball in an alernate universe don't let some dissembodied heckling ruin it for you."

Good point but never underestimate the sense of self-entitlement some wimmin have.

Sander @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Voice recognition is further along than most think. Use XP and microsoft Word and mess around with the speech functions, I don't know if it's a product of my own speech patterns, but it's very rarely mistaken on what I say.

Juan Carlos @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

I didn't imply that women had to use voice masking. I just said it was an option...

It's almost immpossible to the get rid of assholes in a completely anonymous online forum. It's an ineherent problem in the medium. There's no accountability if there is no identity. It's simple psychoogy. If you want the problem to stop you simply peg identifying characteristics (i.e. name, and location) in a readily accesible place on xbox live. However, I think alot of people would be against that, as am I, even though there are positives to it.

retro @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

There should be a better matchmaking feature, and a feature that bases matchmaking off of the selected opponents usual strategy (I believe this should be recorded for ever Live user), and some recorded examples the persons Line voice chatting (Not all messages are recorded, but a few samples would be able to be listened to according to each player, that way all offended gamers would have a chance to back out. This should even be integrated into the Live Gamer Profile, a few voice entries).

Michelle @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Personally the most offensive thing I find as a XBox Live Gamer is the way the gaming industry super enhances the body parts of females in games! I'm tired of the 'in your face' unrealistic images of women in mags that, lets face it, are 97% airbrushed, if they did that to most women, we'd all look hot! But in games they make the boobs almost pop out, unrealistic stick waists that if in reality was to be, the woman would surely snap in half being held only by the spinal column... give me a break!
On the other side of the coin, why not make the male characters super enhanced in private parts like they do us?!!!!!

The A*Holes that cannot take it when they lose shouldn't be playing to start with, if you can't take the heat get out!! So many times I've been online and I hear players say you exit then I'll exit, this means that they scramble the game and win by default. One thing is for sure, women don't need to cheat! But as the saying goes 'once a cheat, always a cheat in love and war' so girls out there.. if your guy does this he's likely to be cheating on you too! I had once a comment that some idiot made saying 'shouldn't you be cooking or cleaning?' I told him politely to get stuffed! And the days are gone where women are tied to the kitchen sink bare foot and preggers... as most typical male chauvenistic pigs think. Its 2005, you may recall equal opportunity.. equal gaming!!! So build your bridge and get over it!

I suggest that Microsoft monitor these online games and weed out the rubbish!

Michelle @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Nate @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

Well the 360's probably already going to be whatever they have in mind for it to be.. but the xbox needs a soundcard capable of EAX.. like the Audigy(1,2,ZS,ect...) or the up and coming X-Fi cards from Creative Labs. Then the users could simply pull down an eax mic enhancment from the menue and use any of the EAX enhancments. Eg, male-female, female- male, zeus ect...
This would also be nice for those of us who make our own movies from games online such as Halo2...

lucas38 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:41PM

As a father of three boys I make every attempt to find groups for them to game with like Family Riot http://www.familyriot.com where parents game with kids, set play dates , and kids play with other kids...not racist jerks.
As for myself, a professional self-employed guy in his late thirties, I game with Geezer Gamers http://www.geezergamers.com. GG is an awesome group of men and women who are over 30 and love to game, I have NEVER heard a rude or offensive comment toward anybody (sure, you get your ribbing, but its not offensive. The one time someone got out of line was 2 years ago during a Halo 2 CTF game he swore at the team for losing...doesn't bother me, but my son was playing too!! The guy personally emailed me and apologized! C'mon where else would you experience that on X'Live!?