J Allard's Xbox 360 dual-SKU chat transcript now online

by Dan Choi { Aug 21st 2005 at 10:30PM }

J Allard speaks Last night, we noted that J Allard would be making a rare open-forum appearance in one of Microsoft's Community chat rooms today. Major Nelson chose questions for J from over a thousand submitted on the buckling beta site, and J also took a few questions from the personal e-mails that he'd received recently. The major also noted in the transcript posted afterwards that with so many similar questions, they "chose the ones that [were] most representative of the majority of the questions." And just so you know, I got knocked off the chat room right before noon PT (something that happened to the major once as well), so all I could do was send him my list of questions and hope for the best. What, I wondered, could we expect from our close-shaved friend?

After the chat was done, the major told me in response that J genuinely wants to hear feedback. Unfortunately, with all the reported lag from the extreme number of people in attendance, it was impossible to get any more than two dozen questions answered in the time that we had. Based on the transcript provided, however, it�s easy to tell what was and wasn�t covered today. Let�s just say that Media Center can stream standard and HD video to the 360 (sorry, don�t know about the 2004 edition specifically), and that backwards-compatibility will require a hard drive because Xbox 1 games tend to use one (an answer I hadn�t considered since I focused on the need to store large emulation profiles). At any rate, J�s answers regarding HD-DVD, the hard drive, and the reasons behind the Core system package were not all that revealing (as expected).

On the other hand, 1up has posted a video of an editor roundtable to consider the dual-SKU dilemma as well. They take ten minutes to cover the different angles of the pricing and component issues pretty well, but all five editors decidedly take gamers� positions on the matter, as they all intend to buy 360s sooner or later � the �Console� version, of course � with three to four of them intending to buy at launch). I suppose we should expect nothing less, but their back-and-forth just felt a bit more satisfying than the one I vicariously bore witness to today. Not having to temper their opinions and speculation for PR and marketing purposes probably helped. I wonder what�s really going on in J�s head these days.

[via Major Nelson]

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I understand that MS is a company, and their only purpose is to make money. Personally I don't have a problem with that. I also understand that some of their decisions on the X360 are needed because if they don't make money on this console, there will be no XBOX3.14159/

My problem is people like J Allard pretending to be for the little guy. I have a problem with J Allard saying we understand the hardcore gamer, and we are doing everything with them in mind when infact they care more about the other 75% of gamers... easy money maybe.

Mr. Allard, here is some free advice, and you can quote me... "Stop your damn lying and mostly, stop blowing smoke up our ass and calling it sunshine..."

(anyone else notice how close 360 and 3d0 look).

In the big picture, I am glad that we have these types of forums to give the little guy a voice. Maybe if enough people voice their opinions (rationally) we will make a small difference... or at least not feel so alone as we get raked over the hot coals.

some dude @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I think that the core and premium packages are okay, but J. Allard continually stresses that the premium package is made for the hardcore gamer and that the core is made for the casual gamer. What he has failed to say (and probably realize) is that some hardcore gamers do not have the money to purchase the premium package, which means they would have to buy the core package instead. $300 was just enough for the first Xbox, and it did appeal to both kinds of gamers. $400, even though it is a good deal considering what accessories you do receive, is still $400, and it is still a lot of money. That's basically being hypocritical to Sony's idea of an overpriced PS3.

SiN ViCiOuS @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

You know, all these cry babys complaining... bottom line you are getting excellent hardware for 400.00 well worth over 400.00.. your comments are border line anti-capitalism.. what do you want them to do take more of a hit like in xbox1? Stop your MS bashing.. J-Al met with his fan base which not a bad idea... I dont know when sony did that last or even nintendo.

jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Sin, I understand what you are saying. I hear that MS bashing gets nothing accomplished. I hear you saying that the 399 is your favorite happymeal.

What I am saying is that MS told us every meal would include a HDD and wireless controller. MS has told us some other things, along the lines of: "we know what the hardcore gamer wants, and we are a company that builds around that need". Both are lies... and when a company starts lying to us, where does it stop?
It seems MS is crapping on Sony, and then using it's bag of tricks.

Can't you see what I am getting at?

funkonaut @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Wow. J Allard is cool He types in all lowercase. :-p

Cyrahk @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

This guy is more annoying than Reggie.

Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

jc: As a rebuttal for your two points...

1. MS you claim does not know what the hardcore gamer wants. Please explain. They are offering a custom CPU, custom GPU and half a gig of RAM that will ensure some of the most amazing graphics and gameplay we as gamers have ever seen. What part about that does not appeal to the hardcore gamer? The price? LOL. Hardcore gamers will pay twice that amount on a single PC GPU. The people who complain about the price are either ignorant or aren't hardcore gamers.

2. You beleive MS lied to us about the HDD and controllers. That is based onone assumption: That they planned on offering the Core System from the beginning. In a scenario where they planned for the XBOX 360 system as the single SKU and then recently decided to also offer a Core System for less money, then technically they didn't lie, the "promises" they made were just based on a previous game plan. Plans change and details that have yet to be worked out can hardly be banked on. With your line of logic, many developers are also guilty of lying- about release dates, features, gameplay etc- while the games are still in deveopment stage and the company is optimistic and not pressed for time. As we all know, circumstances change and many features that devs PLANNED on including get cut from the final version. All three console companies are guilty of the marketing machine- But I have never heard of Sony OR Nintendo coming to the people like J Allard did. MS is really trying to please everyone and get feedback from US. I'm not sure why people are so upset...

Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Furthermore, RUMORS can hardly be regarded as biblical truth. If MS had come out and officially stated that all XBOX 360's would come with a HDD, wireless controllers and priced at $299, and THEN changed their mind, that would be a lie. You can't trust gossip, and anything said outside of an OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE is nothing more than rumors and gossip. If you are suceptable to blindly believing rumors and gossip, you might want to stop reading it and just wait for the system to launch like 90% of the other consumers.

zMastaa @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

@Spartacus

SO DAM RIGHT

OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I have a complete Xbox 360 package on pre-order with a copy of Full Auto.

I want the Xbox 360 so bad,I can already feel the controller in my hands.

I would love to have a wireless version of the original Xbox controllers. I'd honestly pay $40 for one of those.

Pinkus777 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Spartacus
MS didn't have to announce the X360 would come with wireless controller and hdd standard to be liars. Anyone can go to Xbox.com, pull up events, click on E3 and see in black and white in their press kit that X360 was a singular platform {meaning not 2 SKU's} and EVERY {I stress EVERY} X360 would come with a hdd and a wireless controller. If that is not a lie, I don't know what one is.

li @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I think we can blame this on all the kiddes who can't figure out how to use google. I was in that chat for quite a while, and most of the questions asked were the dumbest ones you've ever seen.

jesse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I'm just really disappointed that the 360 won't include a HDMI connection...and HD-DVD out of the box.

:-(

because of that, i might go for a ps3 now, I think that would be a better buy for my 42" plasma.

but hey, HALO 3 could convince me otherwise.

Bender @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

In reply to #3:

"bottom line you are getting excellent hardware for 400.00 well worth over 400.00.. your comments are border line anti-capitalism.. what do you want them to do take more of a hit like in xbox1?"

I would prefer they make a console out of more affordable components. I don't know about GPU's and CPU's but i've been an avid gamer since the atari 2600 and for me I would prefer Microsoft to have a more balanced system that is complete at $299.

One of the best things consoles have going for them over the PC is the consistent specs. ALL xbox 360s should be the same or else we'll get stuck in an upgrade loop (for peripherals, hdd, or otherwise). Consoles are simple technology.. that is, you plug it in, you play. I don't want to have to explain to anyone why X version is better than Y version and i certainly don't want to have to upgrade to play certain games! Nintendo did this with the memory expansion pack for the N64, however they supplied the pack free with a game so you didn't end up paying for it. Somehow I can't see MS giving me a HDD for free when I purchase the next Forza.

Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Well, I was in there...
Yep, I got in 30 minutes before it started and I believe I was the first in there with the female moderator...

The entire thing was a total mess as soon as a hundred or so people joined in.
Everybody was typing away and making all sorts of useful or useless comments.

Out of that noise and utter chaos, Major Nelson picked a few questions that fitted the prepared statements that needed to be made.
It wasn't difficult since so many good and bad questions were offered every second or so. You could have found any question of your liking in the lot.

J was answering...maybe...but many chat rooms never got to see his answers. Microsoft's chat servers became very slow under load...(another confirmation that anything Microsoft makes can't scale beyond a few hundred concurrent users)

So, yeah, after an hour Major Nelson said he would post a transcript and that was it.

It's impossible to call the experience a "chat", a "discussion" or a "live" session. It was a nonsensical mess that ended before it started.

Sean O. @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I guess he makes a decent point about third party multi-platform titles using the hard drive on the Xbox when in total that only represented 20 percent of all consoles... but then again will these developers do that if you lower that number to 5-10 percent by making it optional like the Sony one? Time will tell I guess, I'm anxious to see how their plan works at retail. I also imagine that Sony will show something more before the launch of the 360. Exciting times.

Dr Doom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I think the way this whol console's launch has been handled is great. For once, Microsoft can't be accused of ignoring its public. Such a simple gesture from Allard makes such a big difference.
As for the 2 packages I don't see what all the fuss is about. It gives people options and options are good. If we didn't have the 2 versions you know that the Xbox on offer would be the expensive one anyway. At least this way people who can't afford that can still play on a 360.

P.S: Spare a thought for us European gamers who have to pay over the odds yet again!!

jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Hey Spartacus, I would hate to ruin your reputation... but how about posting somthing that comes from you instead of always attacking the other posters all the time.

Surely there must be somthing you are not ready to toe the line about?

retro @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Damn it, I wanted to ask so many questions, but the chat wouldn't let me in, even though I got in earlier that morning. ><

1)What multimedia formats will be playable on the Xbox 360?

2)Did you actually revoke the multiplayer-on-weekends ability for Xbox Live Silver? And, why?

3)Why are the recommended prices for the Xbox 360 in Canada ($399, $499) so high? Most stores will not come up with a unique price and use this, even though there is a noticeable bump in the value of the Canadian dollar, therefore setting $299 American at $358 Canadian, and $399 American at $478 Canadian. I would gladly have a $20 cheaper Xbox 360.

Kuyu @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Xbox= 733Mhz P3, 64 MB Ram, 64 MB 128-bit gfx card, 5 gB HDD, one wired controller.... $299

Xbox 360= triple core 3.2Ghz PowerPc, 512 MB Ram, 256 MB 256-bit gfx w/ 10mb DRAM!, 24 customizable pipelines, 20Gb HDD, one wireless controller, headset, remote, HD component cables, Live Silver.... $399

Yeah, we're getting ripped off... I paid $450 for a PC graphics card a year ago. The Xbox 360 TROUNCES my gaming PC, and costs 1/4 as much.

Helza @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I've translated the transcript for those people who prefer to read it in dutch:

http://www.xbox-modchips.nl/archives/25

Lunker @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I wish I had a nickel every time he said "hard core gamer." I know he's trying to establish his l337 gamer status, but really now.

I don't have any particular interest in the 360 but I couldn't help but notice that in any question related to "will the hard drive be used or will it languish?" he bounced it back to the developers: "It's entirely up to them," he says, which isn't quite the "HD is the future!!!" line the Microsoft people were singing earlier this year.

I understand and can even appreciate the fact that you can upgrade the HD separately, but would it have been that tough to set up a system wherein the SIZE of the HD can vary drastically but still require SOME SORT of HD present? That would definitely ease a lot of people's worries about the HD being hung out to dry and give Microsoft a break with not having to shell out for massive drives at the get-go.

My personal favorite was this:
"Q: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless
A: great question! the thing to remember that while we designed a no compromises game system, a huge percentage of our customers are not like the folks in this chat room. recognize that more than 75% of the folks on xbox have not played halo."

... like everyone will be saying "Holy shit! People who haven't played Halo?! What kind of people are these?!"

Chris @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

If the 360 is supposed to be a "dramatic leap forward in high-definition gaming" [xbox.com], then where's the DVI or HDMI adapter?

You mean I'm supposed to play "Xbox 360 titles at 720p and 1080i resolution in 16:9 widescreen, with anti-aliasing and multi-channel surround sound" using analog connectors on my 50" HDTV?
What a joke!

Hey Microsoft! It's 2005, not 1995.

Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

"Hey Spartacus, I would hate to ruin your reputation... but how about posting somthing that comes from you instead of always attacking the other posters all the time.

Surely there must be somthing you are not ready to toe the line about?"

jc: I have read virtually every piece of info on the net and in print on the systems. I'm just the type of person who likes to research and know as much as possible about things. After researching and comparing, I feel that the 360 is a great buy with tons of features. Therefore when half the posters on joystiq are bashing MS because they feel the industry owes it to them to hand them a console for next to nothing packed with all the features they'd expect from a next gen product, I feel it necessary to bring some balance to the forum and post some logic and common sense amidst the lunacy. How much fun would it be to read the comments section if all it was was everyone whining and moaning? A little debate is much more interesting and point and counter-point is much more informative. My intent is not to belittle or insult anyone, so if I did, you have my sincere apology.

For all of you wanting a console with more mediocre hardware for a cheaper price, Nintendo will welcome you with open arms. MS and Sony have chosen to duke it out for the top spot, but you as a consumer do have choices- which is the most important aspect of capitolism. Game on.

funkonaut @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

What's up with having to shell out $82 for a wireless controller and a rechargeable battery pack ($49.99 controller + $11.99 battery pack + $19.99 charging cable)?

If that's whay next-gen means then you can count me out.

Concerned_Citizen @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Check out Allard's answer when asked why the HD costs $100.....Does he think we are all retarded? How about an answer to our question, J?

Mathias Pettersson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

funkonaut: I think the play and charge kit contains cable and battery, for $19.99.

Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

funkonaut: Not that it's a huge price difference, but according to those leaked 360 promos, the $19.99 INCLUDES the battery pack. I agree this is a lot of money for a controller, but I also remember when the first wireless controllers for the Xbox came out they were priced around $70 as well- and those controllers didn't feature the frequency scanning/switching technology the 360's do. In time I'm sure these prices will come down, or at least I hope. I'll probably only pick up one extra controller at launch if I buy any extras at all...

rally9x @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Chris- what are you talking about? Their is almost no difference between the quality of a component cable and a digital connection. I'm sure their will be an HDMI cable but HDMI is a pain anyways so why bother? I'm totally excited that their selling a VGA cable. Also, their will be a digital cable for your surrond sound for sure. The fact their including HD capable cables of any kind is amazing.

Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Concerned_Citizen: Since you don't hink J gave an adequate answer, let me take a crack at it...

Q: Why is the add-on HDD so expensive?
A: 1. Because a 2.5" drive is more expensive than a desktop drive. 2. Because MS has to pay royalties to nVidia for the software included on the HDD. 3. Because software is included on the HDD. 4. Because it pushes the full XBOX 360 system sales. 5. Because MS is taking a loss on the consoles, they are trying to make a profit on the accessories (those bastards, lol).

That's my hypothesized answer from all the info I've read...

funkonaut @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Those leaked promos have a number of contradictory prices in there since they were created months before the price announcement last week.

I don't think the Play & Charge kit will be $19.99 as those promos suggest.

Kuyu @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

the controllers use AA batteries too people!!!

30 hours from 2 batteries.

Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

"(anyone else notice how close 360 and 3d0 look)."

not the same point, but this makes me recall another big problem i've got with Xbox.

1. anyone else notice how much the Xbox controllers look like the dreamcast controller?

2. anyone remember the abandoned project for an xbox handheld, called the "Xboy" (give me a fucking break).

3. Sony develops the EyeToy, and all of a sudden that's a big new feature for the 360?

it seems like all of MS's ideas for the Xbox are nothing but rip-offs.

Brad @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

I could care less about price, what I'm curious about is how MS expects game companies to update their Live games with required patches or security fixes.

There are numerious Live games that require an update before being able to play online. How the hell is that going to work without a hard drive?

Bastards!

Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Brad, 360 owners apparently will be able to play on Live without a hard drive, but their capacity to download content will be limited by their storage options, whether by MU or HDD. See the Leipzig news FAQ at Xbox.com here for a little bit more:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/leipzig2005/20050817-faq.htm

In another vein, considering all the questions regarding the Play & Charge Kit (and separate Rechargeable Battery Pack) that we're getting, I think I'm gonna have to e-mail Major Nelson to see what he has to say about what each peripheral will actually come with. Definite answers will hopefully be coming soon.

funkonaut @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Brad, isn't that what Microsoft does best?

Mac OS (Windows)
Google Desktop Search
Lotus 123 (Excel)
Wordperfect (Word)
Google Satellite Maps (MSN Earth)
Tabbed browsing (IE 7)

But this is my favorite by far:

"The Xbox is intentionally designed to look like an Apple product, J. Allard, founding member of the Xbox development team, said, adding that Apple is the aesthetic to reach for."

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/VdvKtOfBcSVG7K/Xbox-360-Sounds-Impressive-But-Jury-Still-Out.xhtml

Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Uh, funkonaut, are you addressing Rare Hare's comments (as opposed to Brad's)?

Dave @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

The funny thing is reading the goons touting DVI or HDMI. Do ya'll own an HDTV? I do, and anyone with half a brain knows you can't see a difference. The reason why these cables exist is copy protection... Or were you not keen on that knowledge. The 360 packages are perfect. Xbox fanboys have overstressed the importance of that oversized memory card... err... hard drive... It's great for storing online patches, maps and game saves. It was primarily used on xbox b/c of low RAM. That problem's solved so using the hard drive to stream will be "less" needed.

funkonaut @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Dan, Oops. My attention to detail is lacking after a couple of post-work beers.

Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Oh yeah, I also believe J had someone typing for him during the chat session because he was still recovering from that biking accident, funkonaut (#5). Who had more influence in typing all in lowercase is a good question to ponder, however. =)

Brad @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Dan Choi: I guess my concern is that required updates wont exist in the Xbox 360 Live world.

For example, say in Forza 360 (if only), MS finds about after the release that online players are cheating their lap times by cutting a portion of the track. With the old Xbox, MS could require an update to Forza to add a sandtrap to that track and you couldn't connect to play online without the update.

My guess is that this may no longer be a possibility because game designers will not want to lock out Live play by requiring a HD (or memory card) that has enough space for the update. And in effect, required fixes like this that come up after a release of a game will no longer be made.

Thats my biggest concern. Lack of fixes for Live games because of possible version conflicts between players.

Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Brad, I understand your concern. Hopefully, such patches won't require an excessive amount of space (versus totally optionable bonus content like maps, modes, or skins, for example), so MS can keep such updates required and easy to install. Swapping out memory cards (er, units?) to access the right game patch could get annoying for Core system owners, however, as could deleting certain content downloads to squeeze the latest patch in.

Jarrod Adams @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM

Mr. Allard can you please explain to me how the live tv function works? Just like the E3 show where the live foot ball game was playing and stryker got a game invite. Do i run my Direct tv to the 360 then the 360 to my tv? If you can answer this for me i would appreciate it.