Sony and Toshiba end talks on HD-DVD, Blu-Ray unification
by Ross Miller 
{ Aug 24th 2005 at 3:30PM }
Although everyone pretty much knew it anyways, all hope for a unified successor to the DVD is now
officially over. Toshiba has announced yestserday that it has ended its talks with Sony on trying to unify
their two formats – HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, respectively – into one format so that the market would not be crowded with
multiple, very similar formats. As it stands, half the movie studios and Microsoft side with HD-DVD (the Xbox 360 will
be able to upgrade to the HD-DVD, probably just to spite
Sony's Blu-Ray), and the other half side with Sony's technology (which will be featured in the PlayStation 3).
This is sad news for Toshiba, whose support is waning in
the industry; then again, it is just an official announcement, and we have all kind of figured this was going to happen
for awhile now, anyways.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
vaylen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Sad news for Toshiba is right. All that money spent for nothing. They should have joined with Blu Ray even if it was on Sony's terms. It would have given them relevance in the next format. Now HD-DVD will be eventually associated with IRRELEVANCE.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I don't understand why it has to be Blu Ray or NOTHING ELSE. Why not just go with the HD-DVD and be done? It'll make the PS3 alot cheaper. Bigger doesnt always mean better. Just because you have a big screen tv doesnt mean it can make the shows better than when it's on my small 18' tv.Sony needs to know when to fight it's battles and when to make a deal for the sake of the consumers.
But I forgot,this is Sony,reasoning with them is.. well...unreasonable.
epobirs @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
OTAM, don't be silly. Do you really think there is no improvement in the viewing experience between a small screen where faces can only be recognized in closeup and a much larger screen where the details of a well composed scene can be appreciated? If all you watch is soap operas and NES games the little screen may not lose much but for something like a good action movie or modern console game the attraction of a large screen is undeniable.
Which has nothing to do with the issue of disc capcity. The HD-DVD capacity is completely adequate for feature films but much of the appeal of DVDs is in the extras and those need space. As well, the biggest growth in home video is in collections of TV seasons which also make great demands on capacity. While additional discs in a set are a small expense (especially compared to the higher cost per disc for Blu-ray media)consumers like packages that take up less room in their home and let them access more material without changing discs. So that greater capacity makes for a good sales pitch to content companies as well as seeming inherently superior to unsophisticated consumers.
Owning the next major video delivery format for retail video sales is worth billions. Sony is extremely well motivated to try having the dominant ownership position on that format. They're certainly going to pursue crossovers within their own product lines. Toshiba made every effort to emphasize ease of transition for the manufacturing process and made some good arguments for its approach but Sony won on glitz. Perhaps if Toshiba had made a deal with Microsoft to get HD-DVD intot he Xbox 360 without affecting the price too badly it might have helped but we'll never know.
Stephen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Blu-ray holds a lot more. It makes more sense to go with it instead of HD-DVD in my opinion. Toshiba should just give up with HD-DVD and join the blu ray camp
I already find the dual layer DVD pretty tight for backing up my stuff. I would pefer a format that would last a lot longer.
HD-DVD is probably cheaper at the beginning, but once blu ray becomes the main format, the cost will go down for sure. Blu-ray is build to be multiple layers ready. HD-DVD would require major changes to the production line to have 3 layers if I remember correctly. The cost advantage of HD-DVD would immediately disappear right there.
I find some people dislike blu-ray mainly because Sony is involved in it. People seem to forget that Panasonic and many other companies are part of it too. People need to look at this from a technical stand point instead. It make sense for PS3 to have blu-ray in my opinion. If 360 is going to have an upgrade, it should be blu-ray and not HD-DVD.
I hope blu-ray wins.
Stephen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
And no offense OTAM...I think your point is pretty illogical. Big screen and small screen TV does make a different viewing experience. I also don't see how disc capacity is related to the size of TV.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I understand that my point doesnt make much sense to alot of you,but it's hard for me to try to explain it so i'll just tell you where i'm coming from.
I really don't want Blu Ray due to the cost. In the end,it's the pricetag on it that matters to me. I have a 360 on preorder and I don't think I should be penalized for being an early adopter and get shafted if blu ray becomes the leading format.
People are just starting to build their dvd collections. All you see everywhere is hardware to put VHS tapes onto DVD and dual layered burners coming down in price. Why not take the time and use this rather than having to get people to buy MORE stuff? DVD hasnt even really been around that long,there's TONS of movies that havent made it to DVD yet and there's already companies fighting over a new standard of media? Please,get that out of my face.
So what happens when I own a 360 and Blu Ray discs are what games are put on? Honestly,it's a serious question,i'm not trying to be an asshole. Think of it from a consumer standpoint. All this big buildup of a console and I put hard earned money on it believing that it'll do everything I want and then only to find out it's useless because we need a new media format? I think not.
Bo Bo the Clown @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I hope HD-DVD wins, I just want to ease into blue ray. Blue Ray, is a format more suitable to maybe the next next geration. I think Microsoft has stated that which ever format wins will be the one that it supports. Yet they are still hoping for HD-DVD. I think that HD-DVD has a good enough size anyways. I mean is the blue rays size even going to be used right now?
Slo-Mo-Shun @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Re: #7
For those who have never recorded videos in 1080p resolution, try it with a standard DVD-R disc, hell, even go dual layer, and see how many MINUTES you can get out of it.
CV @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I don't see why everyone's saying HD-DVD isn't going to succeed just because 20th Century Fox sided with Blu-Ray. That means it's split down the middle. People are already declaring BluRay the winner despite movies being unavailable in either format. I have the transition to a high-definition disc format is going to be the biggest mess ever dropped onto the market's lap. With the insane anti-piracy measures and the two competing formats, there's a good chance both BluRay AND HD-DVD will fail, like DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD. People will waste all kinds of money, and then they'll have to wait for the next format before there's something solid to invest in. Part of me wants both to fail just so holographic discs have a chance, but on the other hand, I don't want to wait forever to own movies in high-definition, especially when I plan on getting a 56" Toshiba DLP TV later this year. There's money to be made from people right now, but the movie industry is too preoccupied with imagined losses from piracy to care about catering to the consumer.
getluv @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Blu-ray is going to win because of the PS3. Seriously you imagine how crazy the Japanese get. So Blu-ray has already won Japan before it even started.
You have people like Apple, Dell and HP/Compax supporting Bluray, thats alot of %age of the home computer market. Add Panasonic, JVC, LG, Sony in the entertainment hardware arena.
Even the camp on Hd-DVd are scared. Paramount says they will delay any HD-DVD releases, Universal have saled back, their music side has sided with Sony, and Warner Bros are releasing movies like Catwoman. WOW!
Sony has a lot riding on BR and i think they would take the early losses, but imagine all the patent deals it gets for people wanting to use BR.
BD arguabley has the better Hollywood Studios on their side. Disney for god sake, making movies for kids and they are highly profitable. Fox are delaying a Special Edition of Star Wars Ep 3 for Blu-Ray with more special features. So they are swaying a teenage-boy fanbase.
I honestly think, the PS3 is going to be a deciding factor.
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
OTAM, I think you're trying to say that you don't think the DVD format has hit its limit, but if you decide you want to go HD for your TV and movies, it HAS hit its limit. HDTV movies are right around the corner and they won't comfortably fit on the standard DVD format - the higher resolution of the HDTV set would reveal the compression far more than when you watch standard-def TV.
Sure, DVD movies will be around a long time; you can still buy VHS at walmart - but people are starting to want higher image-quality on larger screens - NTSC blown-up to fill a HDTV looks pretty questionable.
At this point in time, BluRay has higher capacity - which means either longer programming can happen, or less compression has to be used and the material on them can be better looking, with more tracks of audio, etc. So that alone should get people into it, unless they really just want to hate on Sony... The 'BluRay is more expensive' argument falls apart the moment the format becomes a standard - manufacturing and sheer sales volume will bring the prices on drives, players, and media down, as it did with DVD players and blank media.
As for games on Blu-Ray, I don't see it being something you need to worry about on the XBox 360 - most games over the life of the console will probably fit on standard DVDs as it is, and even if Microsoft picks the losing HD format, the games will still happen - the Gamecube has it's own proprietary disk and games are still made.
Plus I'm guessing that developers will probably use the DVD capacity as a self-imposed limit - the first several million XBox360s will only be able to read DVD or CD discs. So who wants to put together a game that the first year or so of 360's can't play?
Again, this has me grumbling about Microsoft saying they are down with HD-DVD but refusing to put their money where their mouth is - at least Sony commited, and you know what drive you can expect in the PS3.
Mike @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Pay attention to what the porn industry does because that will have a lot to do with which format wins. Porn was a big factor in the VHS/betamax wars, and was also a big driver of broadband and standard DVD's. Generally, porn companies produce in lower volumes and need lower costs, which points to HD-DVD.
Da Boss @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
you dfo know that a DOUBLE sided dual-layered heck even a triple layered HD-DVD can hold more than a BR
just a heads up
anonymous coward @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
"I really don't want Blu Ray due to the cost. In the end,it's the pricetag on it that matters to me. I have a 360 on preorder and I don't think I should be penalized for being an early adopter and get shafted if blu ray becomes the leading format."
But your XBox 360 doesn't have an HD-DVD either... so how are you being penalized?
It's like buying a car with a normal combustion engine and then saying you don't want hydrogen cars to become more popular than electric cars.
RM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
DVD has been out since what, 1998 ?
And we are just NOW seeing DVD used
for computer games enstead of CD.
I dont need to wait 10yrs for BLU RAY
to MAYBE take off against HD/DVD.
Think I will wait for it to sort itself out.