New Madden screens on the 360 severely disappoint
Remember that "target render" video EA released for the
Xbox 360 version of Madden 2006 during the NFL draft back in April? Well, it looks like that trailer is coming
back to bite them somewhere we don't want to mention: an exclusive new gameplay video for Burger King has been
frame-capped and placed online for all the world to see, and
it's rather disappointing in comparison to the one we've come to know and love.
As you can see above, Exhibit B (the BK clip) simply does not match up to Exhibit A (the draft special), and even
a webcomic without light bloom can
recognize that. We can hope that EA will pump up the real-time action sequences before the 360 launches, but it's more
than likely we won't be seeing those kind of visuals until the end of the next generation (if not the one after that).
Xbox 360, why must your games keep looking like Xbox 1.5?? Here's to better launch games and graphics engines.
[via 1UP]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
C'mon, what'd you expect? It's a port of a Xbox/PS2 to the Xbox360. We won't see a true "next-gen" version of Madden until next year when it can be released on the PS3 and Xbox360.
That will be when we see if EA can live up to their hype.
pspimp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
#1
By that time I will be playing Killzone on the PS3, which will look just like the super awesome trailer!!!
SickNic @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Ok, EA is the King of casuals. If you are going to judge a console, don't use the crappiest developer out there. Call of Duty 2, PGR3, Gears of War, GR3 all look gorgeous and next gen. No one ever called the PS2, "ps1.5" when it came out with it's horrible launch titles, yet the system still did very well. The dreamcast's launch had better games...
Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
#3) I honestly don't remember EA saying those type of graphics were going to be available in the first Madden release for 360.
I had a hunch though that this year's release was not going to look only marginally better than current-gen.
I'm not excusing EA for their overpromising. They do that every time. Consumers should be smarter than that though.
soco @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
why is this such a surprise? the first generation ps2 games looked like shit. i remember seeing Summoner in person for the first time and marvelling at how bad the graphics were. especially the horrendous draw in and the horrible paletized shading on it. developers have got the thing mastered now, but at launch, it was crap and basically looked like a ps1 with more polygons and without the texturing errors.
i'm all for lynching EA, Sony, and MS for overhyping their graphics with fakes. however, i think calling the xbox 1.5 for a 3rd party failure is silly and childish -- especially when it's on a game that's ported from the current generation.
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Personally, I don't think any of the next generation consoles will live up to the hype... in the beginning anyways.
Part of the reson people want the next gen systems is because of the hype. We are not buying anything more than promises at this point. Unfortunately the early worm usually just gets the bird.
It has been said a dozen times already... these systems are going to be hard to program for, and it will take time to take advantage of what the new systems have to offer.
Are you still prepared to be the first on the block? If so... game on.
Chris @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
"No one ever called the PS2, "ps1.5" when it came out with it's horrible launch titles, yet the system still did very well."
Finally someone says it. Jesus.
JimyD @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Hell, that looks like Madden Football for the PSP. Nice going EA!
Chiablo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Ahh... remember about a year ago when Penny-Arcade was actually funny?
Cap @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
It's EA, what'd you expect?
Snap @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
It's XBox360, what did you expect? Seriously folks, if you really think 360 games this year are going to "WoW" you, put the pipe down and step away from the window. There is NOTHING on 360 this year or even the first half of next year that is graphically "mind blowing". BULLSHOT indeed.
Nick @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Dan Choi,
The guy who posted this... you need to learn how to redact an article without going that stupidly sarcastic and immature, mainly considering that there's a lot of people reading what you've written and that doesn't make any good to the website's reputation and credibility.
How exactly are the Xbox 360 games Xbox 1.5-like games? Don't you have enough brain to realize that there are way better games on the x360 and you just can't judge the console's lineup from one crappy piece of software that comes from a company that is known for pushing their products in order to make money and no excellence. It isn't even a x360 exclusive game!! It will go for PS2, Xbox, X360 and surely PS3. Do you want to judge x360 games and power? Lets go check PGR3, Gears of War, Oblivion, COD2, Ghost Recon 3 even Dead or Alive 4... and that's without mentioning the non-unveiled titles.
This is the stupidest article I've had the bad luck to read and I hope there won't be more like this.
SetupWeasel @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Damn, "4-5 times the power of the Gamecube" keeps looking better and better.
Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Hey, Nick. Sorry to have disappointed you with my article. I was merely reporting the general (and, yes, "extreme") disappointment many people have expressed over the actual video and screenshots revealed for the game. If you were offended with the Xbox 1.5 comments, I apologize, but seeing launch games like this can be very frustrating, despite my great hope for marquee titles like PGR3 and DOA4. I believe it's important that we put these frustrations into words, whatever other games look like (and more than a few sites have noted the lack of "wow" factor with most of the launch games). I repeat the last line of my post here because I still mean it: "Heres to better launch games and graphics engines." But I definitely agree with you that there are better-looking games out there.
Ray Hagerman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
If you are going to judge a system by EA games then you would never buy a system!
I feel sorry for talented teams like Criterion and DiCE who have to fly that flag on their titles.
Saxon @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
You know, I think I like the term Xbox 180 instead of 1.5- it not only fits the system name better but it also has a suble geometry joke to it.
Dalvin @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Oh, so now you can base a consoles graphical capability by a crappy game like madden 06? Its almost a straight port from the xbox and ps2 version with slightly better graphics. I hope the people who seen the Killzone 2 video dont think thats actual gameplay because if you do think so, then you will be really dissapointed. Oh, and one more thing remember when Sony showed off "The Emotion Engine"? You clearly could see every wrinkle the old guy had on his face. They claimed that this was how the games would look. Has any game on the ps2 matched what they claimed "The Emotion Engine" was going to do. NOOO!!! *cough* CELL *cough*
Ice Raider @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
What do you expect; the game was designed for almost all platforms, Xbox, Xbox360, Nintendo DS, GBA, Gamecube, PS2, PSP, PC, PocketPC and a cell phone version. If the PS3 was out it would be just a crapy as the 360 version. If it was exclusive for the 360 or PS3 or even the PC it probably would have state-of-the-art graphics but cross platform games never take much advantage of the power of each system. So basically its just a bunch of advertising/hyping crap,
EA GAMES - Challenging Nothing!!!!
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
The 360 sucks balls if that's all it can do.
TiaMaster @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Whats really crappy about this is how someone can say that because of an EA game, the 360 is suddenly the "Xbox 1.5" (like Sony is so fond of saying - you know...SONY, the king of overhype).
I'm just not understanding how a game can make a system worse. If this were the case, then judging the PS2 on how many crappy games it has would make it the "PS 1.0002".
Also, the fella who said this is hilarious:
>"by pspimp
By that time I will be playing Killzone on the PS3, which will look just like the super awesome trailer!!!"<
xbox360-forums.com @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
People are acting is if they arent surprised, and that they expected it to be poor, but really instead they SHOULD be disappointed.
I remember when this video emerged and of course soon after, people said it wasn't real game footage. EA came back and said that this is what their artist perception is of what the console will be able to handle, AND WILL probably look better.
Therefore after the movie, EA said we should have expected better things. Nevermind, I'm sure it'll be better in gameplay :)
ErbilT @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Okay, I am going to say it....
It really does not look that bad.
Now let me explain. In the screen grabs that they released, the game is set in the daytime. So the lighting effects are not really in the game until it's played at night. It's not snowing in the new pictures either, so we really have no clue as to what the weather effects look like. The player uniforms have slightly less creases and folds in them, but it's really not that noticable. The camera is also zoomed out a bit. Other than that, looking at the player model, it looks pretty comperable to the render.
BUT....It looks as if the player animation is going to be the same. God, I hope that doesn't happen. But I am realistic and pretty sure that they are not going to put in any added work into that part of the game.
So I will withhold judgement until mor pictures are released showing off the weather effects.
AareDub @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
You people are sad.
EA never said that Madden 06 would look like those videos. They never tried to hide the fact that it was an artists conception of what they EVENTUALLY expected Madden to look like. A game that was designed for all the systems and ported to 360 isn't going to be that impressive.
So yea, lets all go nuts and just assume that every game ever released for the 360 will look no better than this. OMG the 360 is going to suck!
ErbilT @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Actually, EA said it would look better than those videos. The animation still looks like it's going to suck though.
Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
All this he-said, she-said with what EA claimed about that clip. Let's take it back to May with this excerpt from a GameSpot preview:
"...You see, there was just one problem with the commercial footage: it was entirely prerendered. Despite this disappointing fact, the Madden next-gen producers insisted this was merely a target the game's development team was aiming for, and that the final product would exceed what was shown during the NFL Draft commercial."
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sports/maddennfl2006/preview_6125625.html
So there you have it, folks. If you wanna argue what they meant by "final product," that's up to you guys to determine, but I prefer URLs and actual quotes to vague references. More links, anyone?
Hazzard @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong (and thank you in advance if I am) but wasn't Madden 06 (PS2/Cube/Xbox) handed off to a different team this year? Still Tiburon, but their "B" team? My impression was that their top team was plugging away at Madden 06 for the 360. As for that BK promo video, keep the following in mind:
1. Its likely not a finished copy of Madden, despite what the reporter at 1up.com inferred.
2. Its not running on your HDTV at 720p.
3. It doesn't do MS or EA any good to half arse the 360 version. And I'm sure MS is working very closely with EA on all their projects to help the launch games along.
anonymous coward @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
> C'mon, what'd you expect? It's a port of a
> Xbox/PS2 to the Xbox360. We won't see a true
> "next-gen" version of Madden until next year
> when it can be released on the PS3 and
> Xbox360.
I recall Sega's first football game for the Dreamcast looking fabulous. 1st-gen is no excuse with the flagship franchise of the world's largest publisher.
They could've started development ages ago on any of the Direct X hardware out there.
We've been Killzoned.
nod @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
" Xbox 360, why must your games keep looking like Xbox 1.5?? Heres to better launch games and graphics engines."
Dan: I'm not sure why you place the blame on Microsoft. Why not blame EA? They are the ones that (over) produced the video, created the hype, over-promised and under-delivered. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but you've really got it backwards this time.
I was really hoping that the writing here on joystiq would improve over the past few months, but alas, I guess it's just not meant to be.
Dan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
#11 - "Ahh... remember about a year ago when Penny-Arcade was actually funny?"
Penny-Arcade was no funnier a year ago than it is now. The last time Penny-Arcade was funny was in November of 2002.
Mark @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
1. Why does Penny Arcade seem so ANGRY these days? It's not funny anymore. The artist really seems to have issues. The strip is mostly bile and insults.
2. Let's face it: The Xbox 360 is mainly an upgrade from the Xbox for the benefit of Microsoft, not the gamer. They want to lock down the system (preventing the hacking of it). To do that, they need to clear the slate, so to speak. They couldn't give an ass about backwards compatibility, except with the fabled (and overrated, yes, overrated) Halo games.
Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
nod: I wouldn't say that I'm placing all the blame at Microsoft's feet, but I can't help asking why we aren't seeing better results sooner. As there are many reasons for this -- including EA's marketing philosophy, trying triple-core programming, and lackluster launch ports -- I wasn't exactly expecting an answer from MS (and you could even say that I was asking a rhetorical question in the first place). EA is definitely responsible for overpromising and undelivering, though.
On a side note, I'm sorry my writing disappoints you. I'll try to do better next time.
nod @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
"I can't help asking why we aren't seeing better results sooner"
Dan: If you believe this to be true, then why don't you do some digging and try to get the answers and report what you find? It's a decent premise, and if the writing is insightful, it would be a good read on Joystiq. Enough with the juvenile xbox 1.5 crap - it's not provocative. It's boring and lazy writing.
Dan Choi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
"Enough with the juvenile xbox 1.5 crap - it's not provocative. It's boring and lazy writing." Actually, I was just lamenting the still-developing state of EA's biggest (does this need to be qualified by sports?) franchise on the 360. If you didn't agree with what I had to say, that's fine. I'm just sorry it didn't provoke you (in the right way).
The difficulties involved with developing for a new console (and with creating a solid launch lineup) have been well documented here and elsewhere. Read some of Gabe Newell's statements here for a few:
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000507051813/ links
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=510&Itemid=2
It wouldn't be a bad idea, however, to ask EA why they couldn't do better directly. Good suggestion.
Nick @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Dan Choi,
I understand your reasons to feel frustrated and willing to somehow protest, and I apologyse if I was rude in my comment. However, I think it would've been better to change that
"Why do Xbox 360 games keep looking like Xbox 1.5 ones"
for something like:
"Why do EA's Next Gen Games keep looking like Current Gen ones".
The the protest then, is directly aimed to the developer not Microsoft or the x360 which doesn't have anything to do with EA's lack of ability to make outstanding next-gen games.
GuyFawkes @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
I saw Madden behind closed doors at E3 on Xbox 360.
It looks great. The attention to detail in stadiums is mindblowing.
It does not look as good as FIFA or the NBA titles.
It doesn't look anywhere near that prerendered garbage they passed off (in fact, it was in that awful MTV launch special without any disclaimer).
The truth is somewhere in the middle. On a nice HDTV screen the new madden looks fantastic, but honestly it isn't a huge leap forward.
Lesbian Ham @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
This is not unlike EA's efforts on the Gizmondo.
The thing has unbelievably amazing features, but im talking about graphics, specifically, this time, yet EA choose to produce the SHITTIEST LOOKING GAME POSSIBLE for it. It's a bloody n-gage port.
http://gizmondo.com/games/item.asp?id=320&cat=8&all=0
Doesnt really compliment the 5 Million Polygons per second Nvidia GoForce 4500 graphics chip, does it?
b @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Don't complain about the "Xbox 1.5" saying. It's true:
1. The graphics leap is the smallest graphics leap ever. From the PS1 to the PS2 it was huge, four times the bits, same as the leap from SNES to N64. From the PS2 to the PS3, it's jumping Gamecube, Xbox 1, Revolution, and 360. Now, 360 may only be jumping the revolution, but that's only a "may", since we don't know Revolution's specs yet, but the Xbox 1 has like almost twice the power the GC has. Revolution might as well end up looking better, making 360 truly an Xbox 1.5, since it's not really jumping anyone for next generation.
2. Letting alone "power", it won't support all three Hi-Definition modes, and they said it is prepared for that, when it's not.
3. They didn't add much to the controller, they just switched buttons, and wireless is this generation's innovation *COUGH* *wavebird* *COUGH*
4. It's not wireless enabled to connect to the internet (out of the box). The PS3 is. So is revolution.
5. It's not forcing Hard-drive down our throats, while the first Xbox was doing that.
6. LIVE isn't next generation, it will cost more than Nintendos and Sonys online service (which appear to cost Zero).
7. Very importantly, only PS3 includes a Next-Gen drive, and Nintendo seems to have opted to keep it cheap. Yet, Xbox won't keep it cheap, and yet won't offer us at least an HD-DVD. By the time it does it'll be dead and again it won't be a requirement for games, so why add it? And if it is a requirement, will we require to buy an Xbox 360 1.5 two years from now? Or will it be the Xbox 2? Why the hell is it "Hi-Definition" enabled if I can watch only "Standard definition" movies on it anyway? It won't even work like a computer the way the PS3 works. And Linux is next-generation. Windows: It is not.
8. And last, but not least, the games. Most are sequels. Of course, we all want some sequels, but at least we want new experiences even if we use the same characters. 360's new experience? The almost next-but-not-quite-next-generation visuals we just saw. Of course, this may be the worst on the 360, but still they're pretty shitty considering they are supposedly for 360. At least PS3 will bring us a huge leap forward, and it looks like it will take huge advantage of the eye-toy. And let's not start with the revolution, because we all know it will bring us new (gaming) experiences (even if it is with Nintendos typical characters).
Arch-360 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
its people like B. that dont use any common sence. ITS A PORT FROM LAST GEN!!! the graphics will not look better. maybe a little polished and taking advantage of high definition. thats all. i sugest b takes a look at PGr3 and DOA4. and not killzone 3 wich was all CGI by the way B. sorry to have spoiled your hopes and dreams.
and the fact that you take a game by EA and one that is ported from old gen, and you say that it is the smallest jump in graphics makes oyu look like an even bigger noob then you already are.
Arch-360 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
oh and B. by the way. did you know that fight night PS3 is also for the 360? so does tha means that the PS3 is actually PS2.5? and if oyu think that the PS3 will look graphically better then the 360, heres a tip. we have yet to know who will have the better GPU. and so far it looks like the 360 does.
Matthew @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
I think Nintendo was right all along. People just won't care or be blown away by next-gen titles. They're expectations are too high, especially after seeing the KillZone 2 video. I think the graphics will look nice, but nothing that's going to blow you away.
(Not Impressed) Dmitri @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
#2 is either being sarcastic or is a complete idiot.
The killzone trailers were not even supported by guerrila (or however you spell the stupid name). They were made by Sony in addition with several graphical supporters featured in America. Guerrila even announced that they had nothing to do with the trailer.
Please, I don't normally get along with you, but I do not like to see people waste so much money on such a piece of junk (other then the psp, thats just funny when people buy it)
Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
I'd say there's two things wrong with this article, and they have been touched on, but I'll reiterate:
1. A crappy game (if Madden 06 turns out to be such) is the developer's fault, not the hardware manufacturer's.
2. The game is not completed and has two more months before the predicted release date arrives. Furthermore, 360 beta kits haven't been out very long, so most likely, the team at Tiberon has a lot they're still working on graphically.
Project Gotham Racing 3 is a very sweet looking game that looks to definitely qualify as "next-gen". However, right now, even THAT game (though due to launch with the console) doesn't live up to the video's. The actual gameplay footage is less amazing than what we have seen in the movie clips, but that's because THE GAME ISN'T FINISHED YET. Will these developers be cutting it close? Yes. Are they a little rushed? Yes. Is this normal? YES. The only way games ever get published is because of deadlines.
I doubt the game will look as good as the prerendered videos. Of course I also doubt that Killzone PS3 will look as good as that prerendered video either. Prerendering is hype, plain and simple. What is frustrating in both of these cases is that the people responsible for each claimed that they were an accurate depiction of the real game. Publishers and Sony alike should learn that people would much rather be pleasantly surprised than utterly dissapointed. Unfortunately, too many people buy into hype, so the companies will still produce it and underdeliver... Moral of the story? DON'T BUY INTO HYPE.
(Not Impressed) Dmitri @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
Very good points
Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
LOL b... Here's my rebuttal for your points in order:
1. Smallest graphical leap ever? That's arguable. However, if you think the 360's advancements in the graphic department is bad, you may want to turn a blind eye on Nintendo... More on that later.
2. 360 won't support all 3 HD modes... Nope, only 2: 720p and 1080i. Why? How many people do you know with a 1080p capable set? Heck, how many people do you know with an HDTV? Did you know the Revolution won't support ANY of these resolutions?
3. The PS3's controller is even less changed...
4. I'll give you this one ;)
5. Don't complain about CHOICES
6. LIVE is a better online service, plain and simple. And the improvements that the 360 will add to that service are very nice. Whether or not it's "next-gen" I guess is a matter of opinion...
7. Yes, Sony is including a new drive so they can strong arm a new format. However we don't know the COST of this machine yet, so let's not get too excited just yet. Yeah, Nintendo definitely went cheap on us, how does that make the 360 a worse machine? Also, the $400 360 has a HDD, something neither of the other consoles can claim...
8. There are a fair amount of sequels in the 360's launch lineup, but then again look at Sony's and probably what Nintendo will offer as well. Sony will have Killzone 3 (or whatever), probably Tekken x (not sure how many have come out thus far) and Final Fantasy Fifty-Something. Nintendo will have Mario, Mario, Matio, Zelda, etc. So your complaint is valid, but hardly limited to the XBOX 360...
(Not Impressed) Dmitri @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
All I know is. My x-mas list will say is, "Xbox360 $500 bundle"
As it is $500 here in Canada.
Jon D @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
back to Madden, I hate to say it, but this game looks awful. Port or not, it looks hideous, I honestly can't even see the difference betweeen this version and the PS2/XBOX versions.
Occasio @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
So we're really judging a console by a company that pushes their competition out of the market by securing exclusive rights. Do they care how Madden looks on the 360, its your only option for pro football games so people will buy it. Can we judge by a title that Maddens.
batman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
all i have to say is: Spartacus, you are my online-video-game-forum-debate-superhero from now on! :)
Alx @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
It looks Sh*t! im sure everyone would agree with me.. maybe it'll get better as the relase dates get closer..
anyway all first gen games is hardly using the full system power...
On another note..for those who think sony hype the ps2 graphics too much, just look as the games that's release on it lately..
God of war, snake eater , genji (i've play this one)
the console can cerntainly do the graphics it said..maybe not jacking into the matrix....
just wait.. in time both console will have killer graphics...
john @ Dec 18th 2005 9:36PM
This game doesn't look as awful as people say..
it doesn't look like the target render .. i'm not sure people who say this looks like an xbox game really looked at the details in the uniforms... and seriously ..who cares what penny arcade thinks.