Microsoft and Intel now officially backing the HD-DVD
by Ross Miller 
{ Sep 28th 2005 at 2:30PM }
Microsoft and Intel, while generally have remained neutral on the
HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray issue (although Microsoft has hinted at an HD-DVD upgrade to its Xbox 360 sometime after its
launch), both companies have now officially thrown their support behind Toshiba's next-generation disc format. Tom's
Hardware Guide spoke with Jordi Ribas, Microsoft's director of technology strategy for Windows Digital Media. Ribas
told THG that their decision to choose HD-DVD over Blu-Ray, surprisingly, was only made a few days ago, and here are a
few of the reasons he outlined:
-
The ability to make authorized legal copies of the disc and disc's content - Blu-Ray is uncommited to allowing this.
-
Support for DVD/HD-DVD hybrid discs that would make it a smoother transition for the consumers - again, Blu-Ray has yet to deliver on this, according to Ribas.
-
Lower production costs - especially after this report that a few big-name Chinese DVD player makers have announced support for HD-DVD.
-
Oddly enough, Ribas claims that HD-DVD will actually have larger storage capacity than Blu-Ray. According to Ribas, "[capacity] used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it….but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs."
It used to be that Sony's major claim over HD-DVD was its larger disc storage space, but Ribas believes that in regards to tested capacity, "HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte. Despite all these claims, true or not, the format wars will not be one on technical merit, but image and company backing. Let's just hope a clear winner is found quickly so that the consumer does not get totally screwed over.
[Thanks, Spartacus]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JPRacer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I hate Sony and this is really good news.
Whopping Wombat @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
If this is true, thats one lie by the sony camp too many. To be fair though, we have to wait and see when both products are on our market. Hopefully microsoft will use some of its cash to market hd dvd like mad, cause it needs it, blu ray is a household name already.
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I thought MS announced they were in the HD-DVD camp a long tiem ago.
Now that they are officially onboard, you know they are going to be dropping them into the X360s... how do you people that have them pre-ordered feel that within 5 months, they will be including HD-DVD in the X360?
shawn @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I'm not going to get screwed by this. I'm not buying either type of player or videos until the market is solidified behind one or the other. I'll "deal" with regular DVDs until then. Because, really, DVD's aren't that bad in the first place. I don't have an HDTV, nor will I for many years (unless they start going for <$200 suddenly). Rather than pick one and be "wrong", I'll wait and be sure.
HardwareGuy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
High Def DVDs of some kind soon plz, I'm tired of my HDTV showing me how crappy regular DVDs are.
CapAmerica @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I sware the whole Next Gen Format War is going to end in a stale mate. Your looking at the next Laserdisc and VCD.
Bad news for Sony, All MS has to do is not suport Blu-Ray at all in Windows and that will kill off Blu-Ray in the PC market.
Alot of intresting things were pointed out about why HD-DVD is better then Blu-Ray. Thou I wasn't aware of the whole storage amont issue. I always figured that Blu-Ray had the lead there. But then again it wouldn't be the first time Sony has lied... or MS.
While I was a suporter of HD-DVD I'm at the point where I just want both formats to die and Holo-discs to take over. Screw 30GB HD-DVD/Blu-Ray discs I want my 1TB Holo-Disc.
Rumble Bottom @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
#2 Blu Ray is a household name already? Let's see...windex, couch, air conditioner, and oh yeah, BLU RAY! Duh!
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Oh well, I just think Microsoft has no choice. They would hate to pay royalty fees to Sony, so they'll push for HD-DVD.
It does not matter. Movie studios and distribution houses will make or break HD-DVD.
And, to this day, only 2 studios have committed to HD-DVD. All others have committed to Blu-ray.
And, Sony now owns several movie studios, among which:
- Columbia Pictures
- Sony Pictures Classics
- Screen Gems
- TriStar Pictures
So, they can make sure lots of movies are released on their Blu-ray discs.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
HardwareGuy,
I'm with you.
And at the same time, have cinematographers use an aspect ratio that is fully compatible with 16:9 wide screen! I am tired of the anamorphic letter-boxed crap.
gangsta boo @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I hate Microsoft and high gas prices this is really good news!
CapAmerica @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
@8 you make it sound like alot of studios are backing Blu-Ray when infact there not, It only seems big cause Sony breaks down the studios they own.
Blu-Ray:
20th Century Fox
Lions Gate Home Entertainment
Sony Pictures Entertainment
The Walt Disney Company
HD-DVD:
New Line Cinema
Paramount Pictures
The Walt Disney Company
Universal Studios
Warner Bros.
Joel @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Like Chuck D said: "Suckers, Liars, get me a shovel, all you writers I know are damn devils...to them I say don't believe the hype..."
Joystiq writes:
"Support for DVD/HD-DVD hybrid discs that would make it a smoother transition for the consumers - again, Blu-Ray has yet to deliver on this, according to Ribas."
and
"... used to be that Sony’s major claim over HD-DVD was its larger disc storage space, but Ribas believes that in regards to tested capacity, “HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte. :
Yet here:
http://www.physorg.com/news2510.html
"Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. (JVC) is pleased to announce that it has developed the world's first Blu-ray/ DVD combo ROM disc technology, which enables storage of video content in both high definition and standard definition. The new ROM disc, which has a total storage capacity of 33.5GB, uses a triple layer structure made possible by JVC's development of a proprietary, high-performance reflective film."
---
So. One disk, DVD and BD on the same disk, and a higher capacity that Ribas' claimed capacity advantage over Blueray. And there's more to come, according to Victor Company Labs:
"The company is also working on a Blu-ray/ DVD combo ROM disc with an even larger 58.5GB storage capacity. The proposed disc will be comprised of a 50GB Blu-ray dual layer and 8.5GB DVD dual layer structure."
JVC developed that disc in Dec. of 2004. This either proves that Microsoft are total liars, or completely incompetent about new technology. Either way, that doesn't look good for XBox 360.
More on JVC's combo disc:
http://news.com.com/JVC+previews+Blu-ray+DVD+combo/2100-1041_3-5506834.html
James @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
If the Chinese manufacturers are backing HD-DVD, Blu-Ray has no chance since most of the hardware are manufactured out of China. The bottomline is that all of the Chinese manufacturers are running on extremely low margins. To reduce manufacturing costs and royalty payments, the most logical solution to all the OEMs would be picking HD-DVD over Blu-Ray.
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Sony is a pain in the neck with their proprietary formats - think Betamax, miniDisc, and now Blu-Ray. History keeps repeating itself, and they just don't learn.
Blu-Ray a household word? That's total BS.
HD-DVD all the way.
CapAmerica @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
@14 your forgot Memory Sticks and UMDs
Also on the whole Blu-Ray is a household word, that is total BS. For Crying out loud HD-'DVD'. When people hear HD-DVD they think DVD cause its in the name. Blu-Ray you have nothing.
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Could this be a first?
Do we officially have disc format fanboys now?
what's next... Bic vs Pilot pen fanboys? Black vs white piano key fanboys?
While the extra space will be nice, do you fanboys realize the DRM protocals you are chosing to support? hello??
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
By the way, all the talk about Blu-Ray having larger capacity - it's mostly still proof-of-concept. Yes, it seems like they'll be able to bring out larger Blu-Ray discs eventually...but is it really worth the wait? From a consumer standpoint, I think HD-DVD is a lot better in terms of compatibility and overall price. A few extra gigs is nice, but it's really extraneous for what it's being used for.
How long is it going to take to burn a disc? An hour or so?
Really, I just want HD movies for my HDTV. HD-DVD will be the first to market, and the cheapest/easiest for manufacturers to adapt to.
Whuh? @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
The ability to backup HD-DVD movies is a good thing, you can't do that with Blu-Ray.
gamer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
you are all stupid thinking hd dvd is going to win really stupid.
sandro @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Ill put my xbox 360 purchase on HOLD now!!! I'll wait for a really next generation Media Disk for the xbox 360. 6 months after launch?
Ciao,
kaius @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
if we all stop and think about it.. whichever console sells more in the beginning will basically determine the format winner... and because xbox 360 has a head start.. even though it might not come out on release with hd-dvd.. it will be the winner.. because who really in their right mind would buy any of these players in the beginning anyway... everyone will be waiting.
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
In response to jc and his ample usage of the word "fanboy" - every debate has at least 2 sides. I like clementines better than oranges because they're sweeter - does that make me a "clementine fanboy"? Calling people "fanboys" just because they brought up _valid_ points on one side or the other is retarded.
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
kaius, I am pretty sure that dreamcast sold more in the beginning... and then PS2 cameout afterwards.
Your logic might apply if the X360 had HD-DVD from the start... but I really doubt that will be an option until after the PS3 comes out.
So infact we will have the hard core gamers with a X360 (no HD-DVD) and a PS3 (with BRD)... and Windows Vista being 18months away... what format is actually being sold here?
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I understand that you miss NS, Lost_Canadian... don't worry, I promise I will look after it for you. ;)
You, however are a fanboy for supporting, natch, promoting "HD-DVD all the way".
Personally I don't have a stake in either format, and I am aware of both Sony's and MS's business practices and ethics regarding honesty. I hope both fail, and we get a format that is customer friendly/lacks the DRM crap.
PS... Sens suck
hehehe
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
So Microsoft REALLY supports HD-DVD now huh? So much in fact that they won't put it in their flagship 360 product? I'm let down by them - put your drive where your support is. They are waffling HARD on this one.
Don't be fooled here folks. This was covered on The Register.com early yesterday and they pointed out that the strange sudden HD-DVD capacity increase over Blue-Ray is because the Microsoft and Intel people are only counting the SINGLE-Layer versions of Blue-Ray discs, while showing you the capacity of a dual-layer HD-DVD - while Blue-Ray has dual-layer in it's specs.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/27/intel_ms_hddvd/
So they're ignoring something to skew the facts that Blue-Ray has higher capacity. Eh, it's involving companies and their formats, so I expect no less.
Here's a great primer on the whole thing from Endgaget:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000623059130/
Seems the higher costs could eventually be absorbed and that would be that. Even a cheaper manufacturing technique can't match a competitive manufacturing market where everyone is trying to build what becomes the standard, so I'm not worried about Blue-Ray costing more at the onset. A few cents per disc won't translate to higher costs for the consumer; any large company will take that hit to make it's format the standard.
And I've asked it before: which will hit the public first - PS3 or Vista? It's up in the air. But if PS3 can ship and be 'affordable,' and I put quotes on that as that word varies greatly for people, it will put a huge amount of Blue-Ray drives in home enetertainment systems around the world, not just HD-DVD support on some PCs. In addition, the PS3 is being positioned by Sony as a high-end product, not only a gaming machine, and I think it's to attract the audio- and videophile early-adopting elite that the PS3 is a good compliment to their HDTVs and surround-sound home theaters.
I don't think Microsoft putting HD-DVD support in Windows Vista will be as much of a statement as putting the HD-DVD format in the 360 would have been. It was a big selling-point for the PS2 to have DVD movie-playing included. It's a sure bet: More people will have these video-game systems hooked up to their TVs than people will have PCs hooked up to their TVs. So the importance of Blue-Ray in the PS3 is more of a factor than HD-DVD in Vista.
Again, I'm a little mad at them, the 360 I've pre-ordered won't have the HD-DVD drive in it, but it might in a year or two? WACK. Will I need to buy another one? Can I upgrade the drive? No real word from Microsoft at this point.
And the Betamax thing? I've put my two cents in on that here before too: One of Betamax's factors in the loss to VHS was because it was the tape with the SHORTER recording time, like HD-DVD is in this case. So consider that in while you try to draw analogies to that format war.
Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Joel:
MS isn't ignorant or lying. If you read the article, they said that the larger capacity and hybrid discs have been done in the LAB, but no commitment has been made to actually PRODUCE them yet. Being ABLE to do something and DOING something are two totally different things. HD-DVD has COMMITTED to these features.
Sandro and others:
The XBOX 360 may or may not ever come out with an HD DVD drive. Even if it becomes the next standard, MS will carefully think that move over before changing their system. Price, compatability with the launch system and demand are just a few things they'll have to consider. If you're worried about MS changing the disc format later, you'd have to be just as worried about Sony's PS3 down the road as well if HD-DVD becomes the standard. Eithe way it's a toss up. Welcome to changing technology- get used to it.
Jellodyne @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
The Blu-Ray standard requires Java. Microsoft is no longer allowed to develop or support a Java virual machine by court decree (due to their attempted hijack of the standard). To support Blu-Ray would mean Microsoft would have to come to an agreement with Sun WRT bundling Java. If you know Microsoft and you know Sun, thet's fairly unlikely. Therefore HD-DVD is the only one of the two standards Microsoft can support out of the box.
Mza @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
I hope people here understand.
A. The statements about Blu-Ray's shortcomings are made by a MICROSOFT employee.
B. Microsoft has a big financial interest in Blu-Ray NOT becoming the standard.
Blu-Ray is bigger than Sony, many companies have imput into Blu-Ray design, including:
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Thomson Multimedia
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Pictures
Observer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Toshiba has already stated that HD-DVD will only support up to 1080i, whereas the Blu-ray camp has promised 1080p right off the bat. This next generation is all about superior image quality, I could care less about all the other features both sides promise. If I'm getting a 1080p HDTV, I'm buying 1080p movies to go along with it.
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Also, to add: Regarding DRMs and 'Backing Up' Movies on HD-DVD:
You will only be able to do that if the MOVIE STUDIO/CONTENT PROVIDER chooses TO ALLOW THAT SETTING on the HD-DVD.
So, in other words, "NOT GOING TO HAPPEN."
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Ha ha, I guess I'm supposed to be a Sens fan now - but really, I'm just waiting for the Halifax Mooseheads to advance into the NHL. ;)
Lex @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Another thing we have to think about, that will have a big impact on the format war, is well PORN.
Mza @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
@Lex
So true a lot of money has been spent trying to woo the porn ditributers.
spike @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
People will buy HD-DVD simply because it has the name in the title and simply because something has been developed in the lab doesn't mean its anywhere near selling to consumers. Tests for Holographic discs have been underway for over a year in Japan yet no one seriously thinks they'll be available for a good few years yet. Also Microsoft using only single layer BD is fair enough. I mean it costs a lot more to produce DL discs than single layer. If you go into a shop you'll see that DVD-/+RW DL are a lot more expensive than the regular DVD+/-RW. There's also the bigger picture to look at, a lot of people use memory cards/sticks to access media nowadays and they're a lot smaller than either of these discs. Are people really going to want to carry around a disc - sure the capacity may be 25-30GB but if you can get a credit card sized portable hard drive with USB for your media files what's really the point of this disc. It seems the only thing it really does is store fully licensed HD movies of which a tiny proportion of the market actually has HD TV's. All bigger storage space means is that discs are moving into the territory of portable hard disks which isn't a great idea.
vaylen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
ill trooper was 100% correct. This is just a bunch of lies thrown out there by HD-DVD's camp and their Microsoft lap dogs to try and create the ILLUSION (and that's all it is) that HD-DVD has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray. As for Xbox 360 not shipping with HD-DVD. Based on the design of the 360 (the DVD drive does not slide out), you will ABSOLUTELY have to buy a new 360 when Microsoft decides to start putting them in their consoles. Your best bet is to wait until the 360 has the HD-DVD drive before you buy one. That will make Microsoft release it much sooner. Don't buy a 360 if it just has a DVD drive in it. Tell Mr. Gates with your wallet that you will not accept a "lesser" version of the 360 and you won't pay until they release one with similar HD capacity to what the PS3 will be shipping with next year.
vaylen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
ill trooper was 100% correct. This is just a bunch of lies thrown out there by HD-DVD's camp and their Microsoft lap dogs to try and create the ILLUSION (and that's all it is) that HD-DVD has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray. As for Xbox 360 not shipping with HD-DVD. Based on the design of the 360 (the DVD drive does not slide out), you will ABSOLUTELY have to buy a new 360 when Microsoft decides to start putting them in their consoles. Your best bet is to wait until the 360 has the HD-DVD drive before you buy one. That will make Microsoft release it much sooner. Don't buy a 360 if it just has a DVD drive in it. Tell Mr. Gates with your wallet that you will not accept a "lesser" version of the 360 and you won't pay until they release one with similar HD capacity to what the PS3 will be shipping with next year.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
All I know is that if I get fucked in the ass for being an early adopter of the 360 i'm going to snap shit.
Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
vaylen:
Uh, tell me again how you can't add a drive to a 360? You realize people have been swapping out drives in the Xbox for years, right?
Wink E @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
So let me get this straight... If I have a 360 next month , then Microsoft goes along and ships out a revised version with hd -dvd drive in the next few months - I am going to have to buy a second 360.
I am not to thrilled about that scenario? What use is two 360 units to me? If I only need one that has the hd-dvd drive???????????? I think I will hold off and save my money until Microsoft makes a final decision on what will be installed for the 360.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
It's funny, just before this annoucnement, an article on Ars Technica by a media type person wrote an opinion piece of the merits of HD-DVD. Similar to the points that the MS spokesperson said. The article was dismissed as FUD and I have a feeling this is merely FUD as well.
The HD-DVD camp is taking a beating after announcing they were delayed from a Holiday 05 release.
MS's backing to the format does not indicate a clear winner for HD-DVD. It just means anyone who wants a Blu-Ray drive in their windows machine will have to install *GASP!* a driver! Wow, I have to install drivers for everything else, big freaking deal. OTOH, Apple, Dell, HP and various other hardware companies are supporting Blu-Ray.
This is nothing more but sabre rattling.
Get on with your lives people! This is just FUD, look it up if you don't know what it means.
ROG27 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Hahaha...this is the most desperate attempt by the HD-DVD camp to try and steal the thunder of an obviously superior format.
Sony PS3 will come out Spring 2006 with a dual-layer 54 GB Bluray disc drive....(official specs)
Hmmm...sounds like HD-DVD consortium and MS are completely lying...not only that, but they are comparing a single layer BD to a dual-layer HD-DVD. The funniest part about this is that with BD technology you can have 8 x 25 GB layers on one side of a BD which equals 200 GB. HD-DVD maxes out with 3 layers for a total of 45 GB on one side. In the same news release, the representative for Blu-ray said 54 GB dual-layer drives will be out in late winter/early spring. What the hell are the HD-DVD people talking about?
MS owns themselves and look like idiots in the process.
Plus, all of you bias, misinformed retards out there, this is not Sony proprietary technology. Blu-ray was developed by a consortium of electronics manufacturers...just as HD-DVD was. Get this crap out of your head.
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
"HD-DVD is beating Blu-ray 30GB to 25GB". Stupid liar.
"Oddly enough, Ribas claims that HD-DVD will actually have larger storage capacity than Blu-Ray."
He compared the two layered 30GB disc to the one layered blu-ray 25GB. Get your facts right.
It's either 15 GB HD-DVD to Blu-ray 25 GB on one layer. On two layers it's 30 GB to 50 GB.
Not even the three layered HD-DVD can beat the two layered Blu-ray, 45 to 50.
What more, the HD-DVD can only have 3 layers, while the blu-ray can have up to 8 (yes, Eight) layers, adding up to 200 Gigabytes.
Not only that, the 50 GB blu-rays are already out in the market (in Japan at least).
With more PlayStations (and blu-rays) than Xboxes (that will lack HD-DVD at first) in the world (shut up fanboys, the PS3 will sell more despite 360 winning over America), I don't see anyone from the blu-ray band switching sides, while the opposite has happened.
Who cares if Microsoft is backing it? They are only backing it because Sony is competing with them. It's not like they do PCs, they just make software. They won't sell HD-DVDs unless they include it in the 360 (So far, they don't, but even if they do, they need a partner, like samsung for example, and even then they won't make money out of selling HD-DVD players, Samsung will).
And Intel? They don't even make software, for god's sake. They mainly do microchips. They don't sell anything that includes an HD-DVD drive, and they rarely, if ever include Media for their (shitty) products. Long live AMD.
I don't get it. There's this guy that says "This is good news. I hate Sony". Hating a product is bad, but hating a company is stupid bullshit. If you are going to hate someone, at least hate Microsoft for wanting you to pay extra to fully enjoy a game you already own.
"The ability to make authorized legal copies of the disc and disc’s content - Blu-Ray is uncommited to allowing this."
Of course Blu-ray not committed to this, otherwise the ones that back it to protect themselves against piracy, wouldn't back it. No wonder it's more secure than HD-DVD. Nobody can assure that any copy made is legal.
“Support for DVD/HD-DVD hybrid discs that would make it a smoother transition for the consumers - again, Blu-Ray has yet to deliver on this, according to Ribas.”
There are already 58.5 Gb discs that are blu-ray (50GB) on one side, DVD (8.5) on the other.
"Lower production costs - especially after this report that a few big-name Chinese DVD player makers have announced support for HD-DVD."
This is misleading. It's not that an HD-DVD is cheaper than a Blu-ray, they both are, the difference is that one is next-generation material, more secure, more efficient, and lighter, while the other one is bullshit. Eventually we would have to switch to blu-ray, and eventually Blu-ray will be as cheap (when it's adopted by the industry).
“Ribas told us that the major studios - either publicly or quietly - are opposed to BDJ, citing its relative complexity and its lack of compelling new features compared to iHD.”
Half the studios prefer Blu-ray, it’s that simple. When he says “Lack of compelling features”, how does he know? What is “compelling” anyway? It offers new features, at least.
“An optional commentary track for videos, for example, that superimposes the speaker's image on-screen as well as providing audio, is one key iHD feature that BDJ will support only as an option, maybe. "Which means nobody will use it," said Ribas.”
Yeah, “nobody will use it”, despite the fact that everything that is “optional” in DVDs is used by almost every fucking single DVD out there. If the consumer wants it, don’t you think that the Blu-ray association will implement it? Besides, as he said, even if “nobody will use it”, it would mean that it isn’t really that important. And why would Blu-ray need an “extra track” anyway? It already has 50 GB (or more) of capacity, which means that it will have a 5 GB advantage to add ANYTHING for cross-media software/movies.
Nobody cares for what he says anyway. Most will either choose Blu-ray for its capacity or HD-DVD for its (initially) cheaper cost. In the end people will need to burn more information, if its only little more than 45 GB (which won’t exist in HD-DVD anyway, since HD-DVD burners can only burn 15GB, and it will be impossible to burn double layered HD-DVDs, as opposed to blu-ray), or a ton more, up to 200GB.
One last comment: If you come to this site and say “It’s neither of the two, HVD is the future”, you are an idiot. HVD is way ahead of this time, it’s much more expensive than blu-ray (the first discs will cost around 100 dollars, and its initial capacity will be the same as the best blu-ray disc), and it will replace blu-ray long time after blu-ray becomes a standard, and only when 3.9 TB discs are used. Inform yourself.
ROG27 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Oh yeah, and it's illegal for Microsoft not to support Blu-ray drives with its operating system...as the OS is on all practicle fronts, a monopoly product. The courts have ruled that MS cannot oust 3rd party devs and hardware makers to exclude them from the PC market by not opening up their platform to them. They tried to kill Netscape off this way....but Netscape won and set the precedent.
Blu-ray will own the pc arena as well.
It's clearly superior technology and the only technology available soon which will be a viable long-term alternative for HD
Spartacus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Which format is superior really doesn't matter. Inferior products become mainstream all the time. There are many other factors involved, some of which were mentioned in the article. However, the majority of the posts here have more to do with the XBOX 360. WHY?
IF HD-DVD becomes standard, and IF MS then decides to put such a drive in the 360, the ONLY thing it will be used for is movie playback. So if you have to have your console play HD movies, then you *MAY* have to buy a new 360. However if you just play games, you'll need no such thing. Otherwise devs would have to make 2 versions of the same game for the same console, which COULD happen, but isn't likely. MS knows this.
Furthermore, the people who are saying they won't buy a 360 because there may be another add on or advancement in the future apparently haven't bought electronic hardware before. You buy a PC, 5 minutes later it's out of date. YOu buy a TV, and 6 months later a newer model has come out with more and better features. Do we whine about that? Do we boycott TV sales? This is ridiculous...
Ross Miller @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
to be honest, i don't know why you didn't receive a confirmation email, so i went ahead. it was never out of ill-content from any of us and it is fixed and i have hidden all the "other" comments you posted after it.
Ross Miller @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
to be honest, i don't know why you didn't receive a confirmation email, so i went ahead. it was never out of ill-content from any of us and it is fixed and i have hidden all the "other" comments you posted after it.
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Oh, I forgot. By the time Microsoft decides to add a next-gen format to the Xbox, it will be too late for the HD-DVD. They will have to add Blu-ray.
Let's recall Steve Ballmer: "You think we are going to wait A WHOLE GENERATION to add a next-gen drive?"
He may be right . They will add a Next Gen drive, to compete with PlayStation 3, for a NEXT GEN XBOX. That is, they will finally make the Xbox 3. That will be 4 years after the 360 comes out. (If Microsoft killed Xbox 1 in its fourth year, I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same to the 360).
That way, Microsoft will save money, will have the most powerful system, and it will last until PS3 decides to call it quits to make room for PS4. I mean, Why not? PS1 lasted from 1994 (Japan) till 2000, and PS2 from 2000 to 2006. That's 6 years in both consoles, and disregarding what Kutaragi said about "10 years lifespan for PS3", it will probably be another 6.
If Xbox 3 comes out 3 years after PS3 came out, it won't be too late, it will be half of the PlayStation's lifespan at the end of 360's life span. By the end of the PS3's lifespan, it will almost be the end for Xbox 3 lifespan (one year left), so it would work out again. That way Microsoft saves money in having to think of yet so many names so that "stupid people" don't think that Xbox is one generation behind PS (even if it will be in the next generation console war). Xbox 3 won't be "Xbox 4000", or Xbox 4 won't be "V-box". And they will still have one year to deliver an even more powerful Xbox 4 to compete with PS4.
They could also use that as publicity against Sony as saying "our generations go faster than Sony's", and then realizing that it backfired, because people don't give a shit about that, they give a shit about their money's worth and not having to spend another 500 dollars each 4 years as opposed to each 6.
After that, we will have to endure all the next generation battles of 6 years PlayStations and 6 years Xboxes.
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
"45. Posted Sep 28, 2005, 6:21 PM ET by Ross Miller
to be honest, i don't know why you didn't receive a confirmation email, so i went ahead. it was never out of ill-content from any of us and it is fixed and i have hidden all the "other" comments you posted after it."
Thanks a whole lot
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
"15. Posted Sep 28, 2005, 3:37 PM ET by CapAmerica
@14 your forgot Memory Sticks and UMDs
Also on the whole Blu-Ray is a household word, that is total BS. For Crying out loud HD-'DVD'. When people hear HD-DVD they think DVD cause its in the name. Blu-Ray you have nothing."
That's like once saying "Why not VCD? DVD has nothing, VCD has the 'CD' on it", dipshit. It doesn't matter. In the end it will be about what the consumer needs: STORAGE. They will recongnize both logos, just as anybody recognizes today the "Intel inside" on computers, even if they don't give a shit if it's intel as long as it's powerful enough to last five years.
LaughingTarget @ Dec 18th 2005 10:08PM
Neither will take off. The economic conditions are not right to make a jump to a new standard. DVD came at the right time. VHS was becoming clearly dated and the economy was booming when DVDs were released (1997).
Now that fuel prices are high and the US Dollar is in the toilet, buying the new machinery to run the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disks will be far from the minds of a good 80-90% of the US consumer base, which is basically all that matters given the US has the biggest disposable income in the world.
Not many people have 1080i sets, which still cost over $1,000, let alone anyone owning a 1080p set, which AVERAGE $7,000. I can defenitely see the salesman trying to hawk a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD unit to someone.
Salesman: Say, you want a new system? It is so much better than your DVD player.
Customer: Cool, what does it do?
Salesman: It can run your movies in crisp 1080p high defenition mode.
Customer: What is that?
Salesman: Do you have a HDTV?
Customer: Uh, no.
Salesman: Hmm...
alternatively
Salesman: Do you have an HDTV?
Customer: Ya.
Salesman: 1080p?
Customer: No.
Salesman: Hmm...
Both cases the new formats are useless. Regular DVDs are more than enough to run a proper 1080i picture and satisfy a small sliver of the US marketplace.
Ultimately, there is no point in supporting one or the other, the DVD will kick both their backsides like the VHS took down the LaserDisc and VCD.