Microsoft and Intel now officially backing the HD-DVD

I don't see how the jump in storage from HD-DVD to BluRay is worth the extra cost and extra copy protection measures. I hear a lot of "consumers are going to need more space." How's that? A lot of people still don't use writeable DVDs. CDs are still plenty for most people. People recording high-definition video will appreciate the extra space, but not the premium price. To say that either format is the clear-cut superior format is ridiculous. Space is the only real argument for BluRay. High-definition is the only argument for either format. How many people are going to pay more for high-definition versions of films? Even if it was just one format, it would probably take off slower than DVD did. I'm certainly ready for a high-definition disc format, but I'm not sure the market is, especially when there are two possible formats. Because these companies can't agree on one format, they're screwing themselves AND the consumer. Of course, maybe something good could come of the failure of both formats, which is that the movie studios will realize protecting their films from pirates isn't as important as working together for the consumer.

Poster 38 (Spartacus). There is a big difference between modding an Xbox and replacing the DVD drive in a 360 with a sanctioned HD-DVD drive from Microsoft. I have replaced the DVD drive in my Xbox. Most luddites out there could not or would not do it. The process involves unscrewing the cover of a console, lifting out it's innards, unscrewing a DVD drive, disconnecting the power and serial cable from it, replacing that drive with a HD-DVD drive, plugging those cables back in and running them to fit neatly in the tight case, screwing the drive back in, then screwing the case back on the console. That just aint gonna happen as an official Microsoft upgrade.

Microsoft would have to allow the old drive to be removed and the new one put in much like they are doing with their hard drive. It has to be clean and easy. Since the 360 is done and it isn't going to change before launch, that means it's stupid to buy one with LAST generation's DVD player inside. I (and others) will wait for Microsoft to get with the "Next Gen" they are proportedly offering us and put a real High Def disc player inside the thing. If you want old tech, go ahead and buy one at launch. I'd just rather only buy one 360, and I think others would too.

Michael Dell put it perfectly when he was asked about the ramifications of Microsoft and Intel backing HD-DVD instead of Blu-ray.

When asked how the Microsoft/Intel decision would affect the company’s ability to execute the strategy, he quipped, “here’s a question for you. Anybody know which version of Windows was the first to support DVD drives?” After a few moments of silence, he answered: “None. PC makers have always had to include their own codecs. That’s how we did it for DVD drives, and that’s how we’ll do it for Blu-ray.”

Nuff said.

And although your post was long, b, it was very informative and I'm glad I read it.

"The courts have ruled that MS cannot oust 3rd party devs and hardware makers to exclude them from the PC market by not opening up their platform to them. They tried to kill Netscape off this way....but Netscape won and set the precedent."

microsoft killing blu-ray is as simple as this
1. don't include blu-ray support on any windows versions.
2. the EU and other courts would get involved. here comes the six months of waiting before trial.
3. microsoft bickers in court, spending (pocket change) on lawyers and fighting for another six months
4. 1 and a half years later, microsoft finally has to add blu-ray support to windows, in which case they would slowly release the update and most computer manufacterers would choose not to update it with the blu ray version, since by then blu-ray has lost because it has no support from anyone but sony. nobody would patch their computer with the blu-ray support anyway, since it would be under the "optional download" section and no one bothers, they just turn on automatic updates

sure netscape won the legal case, but now NOBODY USES NETSCAPE.

YES, THEY TRIED TO KILL NETSCAPE OFF THIS WAY AND THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL!!!

I'll end this discussion now. The winner of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war will be which ever format the porn industry chooses.

/thread

Some good comments here.

Spike: I doubt the strength of the acronym 'DVD' is enough to get people to pick it over Blue-Ray. In fact, a similar argument could be made: "Customer comes in, asks 'what's a Blue-Ray?' and is told, 'It's the NEW DVD format, it's NEW, not old, so NEW it has a flashy NEW name, Blue-Ray, say it with me, give it a try, sounds NEW, eh?" And the spin becomes something like 'This isn't your father's storage format."

And the difference with a HD-DVD or Blue-Ray disk and a 'portable hard-drive' is pretty drastic, beyond simply 'storage capacity' - one is a computer periphrial, requiring power and care to not crash it, while the other is a commited, physically burned object that can be dropped in the pool and wiped off or mailed to someone in an envelope. So I can't agree with your assessment that larger data storage nearing the size of 'portable hard discs' 'isn't a great idea.'

Spart, you said: "You realize people have been swapping out drives in the Xbox for years, right?"

We can all agree that a company making a media-drive format-change mid-product cycle is pretty different from xbox-modders or local video game shops switching out their drives. A good point that you brought up is that if Blue-Ray doesn't catch on, Sony could be joining Microsoft in switching to HD-DVD drives. So the PS3 could be getting the mid-cycle change as well.

b brought some nice technical points in as well, although it would be great to see some links (Is HD-DVD only limited to one layer if you burn it yourself? Is it the drive availability or what?) so we can all be up on it as well.

I was thinking about the thing about the manufacturers being mentioned by Microsoft and Intel, and I agree, aside from Microsoft with the Xbox, these guys don't make the products, they make essential components, but not the product itself. Dell and Apple, two of the largest computer vendors are both on the Blue-Ray side. Costs are considered higher because the manufacturing plants would need to be upgraded, but once that is done, the costs are simular.

It's gonna be a frustrating year or so as this gets hammered out.

I wouldn't be surprised if SONY was bluffing about their Blu-Ray technology.

Their stocks are down when Asian stocks are rising, their walkmans are getting owned by iPods, their PSPs are being brewed, they don't even have enough money for a small building at the '05 Aichi World Expo (Toshiba's building is the best).

All they have now is the PS3 and Blu-Ray, of course they are going to tout them as pieces of heaven.

oh yeah, they are also cutting 10,000 jobs as I type.

To everyone that thinks the porn industry is goig to settle this: You're wrong.

The porn industry is split down the middle. The smaller studios want the cheaper HD-DVD, which will still allow them to release a movie with a few different angles. However, the large studios want Blue Ray because they can use the extra space for many extra angles along with more interactive features.

May 11, 2005

Today I walked into the Worst Buy and started shopping for my next gen DVD player. The Apex HD-DVD player is $199 and have a rebate for another $50 off but the Sony Blue-Ray player is $299 since it just came out. The sales person said that since it's Sony so you can expect the "higher" quality but of course it will cost more to experience that. The Apex will do the job just fine to play a much cheaper HD-DVD movie on my 32" LCD HDTV just fine. I walked out with the Apex HD-DVD player with a happy smile.

#58... May 11, 2006

#26 Spartacus wrote:

"MS isn't ignorant or lying. If you read the article, they said that the larger capacity and hybrid discs have been done in the LAB, but no commitment has been made to actually PRODUCE them yet."

And manufacturers like JVC are doing all this work and spending all this money to create products they can't manufacture? That doesn't make any sense at all. Of course manufaturing is a different process than lab development, but you don't develop something like that in a lab, like JVC did with the combo disc in Dec. 2004, unless you plan to manufacture it later. Big manufacturers like JVC aren't doing this research for the betterment of science, they are doing product development.

But let's pout that lie aside and go for another one: "The ability to make authorized legal copies of the disc and disc’s content - Blu-Ray is uncommited to allowing this."

Bullshit. Plain and simple.

Here's why: This function, called "Managed copy" has nothing whatsoever to do with the format of the disc, but is entirely a function of the DRM programs supported by the system. In the case of Microsoft and the HD-DVD format, the DRM program that provides "managed copy" functions and network streaming is the AACS content protection system.

Where the lie come in is the claim that "Blueray is uncommitted to allowing this. Totally false.

BOTH HD-DVD and Blueray fully support the AAC5 content protection system and all it's functions. Look it up. The AAC5 system is not specific to format.

Suggesting anything otherwise, my friends, is a lie.

#58 you are an asswipe blue ray is going to win