Cell demonstration--PS3 will double as a mirror?
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Oct 7th 2005 at 2:00PM }
A recent demonstration at the CEATEC 2005
conference in Japan showed off the Cell processor's ability to mimic the movements and facial expressions of a model in
real-time. The display, essentially a digital mirror, used a camera to send information to the processor, which then
constructed a 3D image of what the camera had captured. The Cell mapped 500 unique coordinates, which were refreshed
100 times per second, creating a mirror effect as the model made faces.
We all remember Sony's liberal use of the term "Emotion Engine," which was supposed to describe the PS2's graphics chip. This latest Cell demonstration suggests that the PS3 chip has the potential to actually live up to that expectation. Imagine if the Cell, coupled with an upgraded EyeToy, could read our facial expressions, and use them to influence the direction of a game—or at the least, track our physical movements, so that our hands (or even entire bodies) became the controllers. Sure, the EyeToy already works like this, but with the Cell's increased processing power, the PS3 could be giving Nintendo's revolutionary concept a run for its money.
[Thanks, Ghazi]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
The eytoy/cell potential have already been demonstrated with the ducks in a tub demo. Where the guy had two different coloured cups and used the eyetoy to pick up the water and throw it around.
I think the salon demo is cool, seeing the difference make ups/hair doos up date in a flash and still keep up with the users head movements. Quite impressive.
That demo alone has implications in the cosmetics industry. It would be cool to see what other uses they have in plan for Cell, other than putting them into IBM blade servers.
SickNic @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Just imagine: The eyetoy spy's on you and sees what you eat and drink. The cell recognizes company logos on bags of chips and soda. All of a sudden, you see in game advertisements on billboards and posters on walls for the products you already buy!
Yeah, it could happen...
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Imagine mapping all of the polygons it will take to express the look of dismay as I hear how much I have to pay to buy a PS3.
Of course, I will be buying one, no question. But I'm just saying...
Tiremfej @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
More of Sony's false promises and hype. I'd like to actually see a working running game on the system. You can talk all you want the thing, but talk is cheap.
Mike @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Im thinking about a Revolution instead of a Xbox360 or PS3. It just seems like a real console and fun while the others will deliver the same boring ass games only dolled up. The revolution will be fun to pick up and play. While the others will collect dust after a few months. Im not a Nintendo fanboy, I just don't feel like paying hundreds of dollars just to play sequels of old and stale games with shiny graphics. I have a PC for that.
Vincent @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Nah. The potential is definitely there, but I doubt any but the smallest niche would take advantage of it--IF developers supported and developed that idea.
There wasn't a large market for the eyetoy in the first place, despite tech demos being extremely impressive (i.e. the ones where they used the wand to pop bubbles, etc).
Their (huge) installed user base seems far too traditional for something like that to catch on. Sony would really have to push these ideas in the way that Nintendo is their controller if people are going to accept the ideas and utilize them.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Now, that sounds like next-generation revolutionary stuff.
Finally, there is hope after all.
Uwe Boll @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
i'm going to get all 3 consoles. i'm so rich now from all the money i've been making from my hit movies such as House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark, Bloodrayne, Dungeon Siege, and soon Halo and Metal Gear. make way for the UWE revolution!!!
PickyPants @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Mike. Interesting comments, wrong thread.
Let me be the first Nintendo fan boy to say, hat's off to Sony for trying something interesting. I hope it is a cool as it sounds.
Certainly better than another racing game or uninspired 3d platformer.
kaius @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"read our facial expressions, and use them to influence the direction of a game" ...ahahahhahaha... i think most of us are either stoned or stone faced during gameplay, concentration being the factor... especially if you play alone & sober...
Mike @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Im thinking about a Revolution instead of a Xbox360 or PS3. It just seems like a real console and fun while the others will deliver the same boring ass games only dolled up. The revolution will be fun to pick up and play. While the others will collect dust after a few months. Im not a Nintendo fanboy, I just don't feel like paying hundreds of dollars just to play sequels of old and stale games with shiny graphics. I have a PC for that.
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I hope this means Killzone for PS3 will look like the E3 trailer, and MGS4 and DMC as well.
kuroshi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Nice tech demo, but doesn't relate directly to games. It's okay for writers and even gamers to "imagine if". But the PS3 is not a tech demo. It is an actual machine that is to be released next year. You can't play "what if". They need a tech demo that shows the cell chip can process next gen graphics in gamplay. And no MGS4 was not "in gamplay". It was the CGI used for cutscenes. It was at least a start because it was at least running of the cell processor. Sony says they will show gameplay in December. No doubt the cell is powerful, the question has been is it good at processing calculations for games? We will see.
TiaMaster @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
*sigh*.
Anyone who has listened to Sony hype its products such as the PS2, will take all these "tech demos" as what they are - DEMOS.
Its like saying the Revolution controller is the best thing since white bread.
THESE THINGS DON'T EXIST YET PEOPLE. Wait till you TRIED something before giving it a glowing recommendation or tearing it down.
While M$ is allowing people to play the games now that the developers finally have the Final Dev Kits in hand, we should be paying attention to what is actually on the horizon - 360 games.
Come next year, we can start to do the same for the PS3 - but UNTIL THEN, chill with the abstract hyp, Sony.
Markus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I can't help it but this sounds a lot like my article.
http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/131
Badison @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Amazing, that this is possible (even if it is in a non-consumer state and expense).
mercatfat @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
um, i hate to correct, but Metal Gear Solid has never had CGI, and MGS4 is no exception.
Hence from the trailer, the silly "FPS- Forget Pre-Rendered Stuff"
Kojima has always been the master of milking a machine for all it's worth, graphically.
on a completely unrelated side-note, i can't believe people are still typing the letter "M" and following it with a dollar sign.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Well, I didn't get to play any Xbox 360 game yet, so I cannot talk about that.
In fact, I have not found any first-party high-resolution gameplay videos either. Mostly captures that were shot off of a screen with a cell phone or a handheld camera.
So, I can't talk about that either.
This Cell is very exciting, though.
Mad Commenter @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I find this facial mapping demonstration very interesting, but I don't see how this would apply to EA games.
Sincerely,
J. Allard
Lectoid @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Wonder if this can detect the rage in my face when I get pushed into a guard rail in GT5. That way it can reel in the controller before I throw it into a wall, or at least tell me to do the Happy Dance.
Stephen @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
It sounds cool, but it serves no purpose. It's great that it's powerful enough to do that, but I doubt the camera used was $50 :).
Christopher7xii @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Holy shit that looks pretty amazing. I wonder how it knows where to apply and wrap the tattoos and hair and shit? Pretty intense though, I definitely would love to play around with something like this if they had it setup at a kiosk in stores. Obviously it has it's limitations and I wouldn't buy it, but it still shows off some amazing potential =) Considering the revolution hasn't shown ANYTHING of what it's capable of doing(aside from some hypothetical gaming experiences where we don't even see the screen), and is supposedly due out at the same time.
"And no MGS4 was not "in gamplay". It was the CGI used for cutscenes. It was at least a start because it was at least running of the cell processor."
---MGS4, the most recent demo at the TGS, was rendered real time. So while it isn't "in game", it is the same engine as the in game runs. A lot like how FFX had it's in-game renderings for a lot of cut scenes, then they flowed seamlessly into their pre-rendered HQ CGI videos. So again, sure, MGS4 wasn't gameplay, but it was the in game footage rendering everything real time. So yes, it is significant, and it will look that good. The only question is when you got a lot more going on, wether or not the FPS will drop or not. Given what they're saying about the Cell processing 3 HD pictures and an analog signal all simotaneously though, I really don't have doubts if that's the case. Of course I'm skeptical(because everything runs better on paper), but I am hopeful for the future.
Ghazi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Markus, the source is your article.
darryl @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"It was the CGI used for cutscenes."
Not to be an ass but please stop calling "computer generated" graphics CGI! It's just CG. CGI stands for "common gateway interface", nothing to do with computer graphics. If you're going to "teach" us the way, then at least use the correct acronyms.
CG not CGI, m'gawd.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
OMG, you guys are crazy. This is not Sony's work, it's Toshiba's!
Do you hear me!? TOSHIBA.
Why do people have to bring up Sony?
Ugh, the ignorance.
gmrc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
This is total Sony hype.
I promise you this .... you will NEVER see this in a PS3 game. NEVER EVER.
I think that demo was pretty cool and I would like to see some more of it, since it was pretty interesting.
But this is nothing more than a tech demo that could *maybe* be turned into a HIGHLY-specialized and niche product (someone above mentioned the hair dresser industry). MAYBE, but still very super doubtful. I imagine that anything more than a simple video mirror with some 3D tracking and models is about all the system could handle.
This is NOT appear in a game and this type of techology (reading your facial expressions) will NOT be used this generation. Zero percent chance. PS3 will not feature this.
Sony may flaunt this for the next little bit, but it will not be an actual feature you will use to play games or do anything constructive with. 100% guarenteed.
I will be shocked if this ever exits the Tech Demo universe.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
More information can be found in this thread on Beyond3d.com:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24203
Notice the picture of the TOSHIBA Cell reference kit used to run the make up demo.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"This is total Sony hype."
It's TOSHIBA hype, not Sony hype damn it! :P
b @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Darryl:
Computer Generated Images
bonkku @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
*sigh* the cell processor is not what it is being hyped up to be. The graphic muscle in the ps3 will come from nvidia not from this crap processor.
gamer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
no one here has a ps3 so who are you to say that the cell is not living up to its hype
bonkku @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hmm, could it be because I've looked at the detailed hardware specs?
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614682p1.html
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Cell processor 218 GFLOPS
Nvidia RSX 1.8 TFLOPS
Since the Nvidia chip is responsable for 90% of the famed 2 TFLOPS of the ps3 that makes everyone believe that it is twice as powerful as the X360, yeah I'd say that the Cell processor is being over hyped and that the true source of the PS3's graphical power is from the the nvidia chip.
Sean @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hey, leave Daryl alone, as a Data Analysing Robot Youth Lifeform he's nitpicky by nature.
Woo, dating myself with that reference.
Pretty Obvious @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
As far as im concerned Sonys Eye Toy is more of a Revolution then Nintendos remote control wand. Only time will tell though.
At least one things for sure, Sonys got them in the system power and graphics departments.
Sean O. @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
So the poster remembered the Emotion Engine hype and then while still in the same paragraph fell for it again... but it's a Cell chip this time...
Christopher7xii @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
dictionary.com
----------
1. Common Gateway Interface.
2. computer-generated imagery.
----------
Crazy, isn't it? Acronyms with multiple meanings. Welcome to the english language.
James @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
All this stuff sounds cool when its first talked about but it takes like 2 years after the consoles launched to reach us and then it's never implemented right. Lets hope this kind of stuff dosn't go the same way.
Tyler @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
What's this talk about the graphics muscle not coming from the cell. Who gives a rats @$$, the cell isn't processing graphics in the demo, it's processing points and making lines. The Cell is an incredible piece of architecture, and I see some of you guys moaning about how you're going to get a revolution, or how the Cell is just another typical processor. I'm sure some of you guys out there will just post some lame ass come back to something I said, but I guess I can't blame you, considering that's all you do all day; Sit in your mom's basement playing Guild Wars or some damn thing. I guess I could be over reacting a bit, but some of you guys need to just stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
bonkku @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Wow Tyler, I could practically feel you stomping your feet in a childish tantrum. Do a little reading for yourself and stop listening to Sony's marketing; everyone knows you can not trust what Sony says. By the way, Cell is not a typical processor. It is far inferior to the typical processor. At least in respect to computers.
hecklerspray @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Yeah, it starts off by reading your face, but this is bound to lead to some kind of mind-reading program that can steal your PIN number from your brain. Sony won't need to win the next-gen war because they'll be busy buying diamond-covered mountain bikes with money stolen directly from our bank accounts
JC @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
tech demos are cool, but as we've heard over and over they are just DEMOS. If it comes to that, they I've seen far more impressive technology from other companies than what the Cell chip is said to offer...not in games, but in army/high tech stuff. Which brings me to the point, why would I want my face in a game to begin with? Or should I come home and say, wow I just spent $400-500 so I can view myself! Has anyone thought that a real mirror is much cheaper and actually truer to life? Sony (or Toshiba) should not even bother with this demonstrating this stuff unless it is actually useful.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
The usefulness is not important here. That's what tech demos are for. What novel is that a camera, not the eyetoy, is being used to capture an image and the CELL processor provided by Toshiba is able to manipulate that image in real time. What's impressive is 1) the speed at which the program responds to the change in face expression and 2) how quickly the "hairstyles" change and keep up with the subject's movements.
People claiming that the only use for the CELL processor as a 500$ virtual mirror are grasping at straws.
darryl @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"Hey, leave Daryl alone, as a Data Analysing Robot Youth Lifeform he's nitpicky by nature.
Woo, dating myself with that reference."
You remeber that movie! ;) D.A.R.Y.L.
Rhad... :)
Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"OMG, you guys are crazy. This is not Sony's work, it's Toshiba's!
Do you hear me!? TOSHIBA.
Why do people have to bring up Sony?
Ugh, the ignorance."
right.. cause i love playing games on my Toshiba PlayStation 2.
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"right.. cause i love playing games on my Toshiba PlayStation 2."
Uh... Toshiba gave this demo. Not Sony. Think before you talk.
PS3 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
If you fancy winning a PS3, check http://www.ps3peak.com/Forum/about69.html
Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"Uh... Toshiba gave this demo. Not Sony. Think before you talk."
actually, it's a joint effort between Sony, Toshiba, and IBM. a joint effort which is benefitting support for SONY's console. so it's Sony's hype, thank you very much.
JQ @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
This is about as useful as the tibit I read that the Sony PS3 is 1% as powerful as the human brain. STILL doesn't make me wanna buy one.
Adam @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
erm joystick really don't like nintendo at all so they? they always praze things sony do and mock what ever nintendo does
metal_gear_jello @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"actually, it's a joint effort between Sony, Toshiba, and IBM. a joint effort which is benefitting support for SONY's console. so it's Sony's hype, thank you very much."
The CELL processor is a joint effort. The tech demo is pure Toshiba. It's toshiba's hype thank you very much. Case closed.
Don't divert the attention just because you hate Sony.