Joystiq hands-on: Xbox 360--the games
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Oct 12th 2005 at 7:00AM }
I'm slowly recovering from a 10-hour date with the Xbox 360. For an event that offered free non-stop gaming—true, it was invite only—the number of attendees (on Tuesday) was shockingly sparse; but the room did start to fill up once cocktail hour rolled around. Needless to say, I was free to hop from station to station and get down n' dirty with the following titles (listed alphabetically):
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Call of Duty 2
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Condemned: Criminal Origins
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Dead or Alive 4
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The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
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Kameo: Elements of Power
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King Kong
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NBA Live 06
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Need for Speed Most Wanted
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Perfect Dark Zero
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Project Gotham Racing 3
Ill cover some of these games in greater depth later today, but I want to hit you with my first impressions:
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Call of Duty 2 - My favorite overall experiencea ceaseless attack on the senses. I really enjoyed the arcade-style pace and gameplay coupled with a pseudo-authentic WWII motif. But 8-player (only?) Live support was a disappointment
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Condemned: Criminal Origins - Biggest surprise. Integrating player-friendly (i.e. easy) detective work provided a nice break from beating psychotic vagrants to death with anything and everything (read: 2x4s, lead pipes, fire axes, mannequin arms, etc). Be prepared to have DOOM 3 flashbacks
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Dead or Alive 4 - Most disappointing title on-hand. A modest upgrade from Dead or Alive Ultimateand yes, that means better bounce. However, there are some promising Xbox Live spectator features.
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The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Fans of the series will not be disappointed. Personally, I dont have 200+ hours to immerse myself in this one, but for those that do, put this on the shopping list. The Havoc Physics Engine rocks, plus combat has been much improved!
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Kameo: Elements of Power - Not my cup of tea, but I respect what Rare has down with this one. Kameo could be a breakthrough title that attracts a huge audience of casual and younger-aged gamersthere are also elements that cater to the hardcore. Kameos hover ability (she can fly a few feet off of the ground) is just plain cool.
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King Kong - The two level demo version. Looks impressive, and Ubis choice to feature no HUD could lead to some innovative gameplay. But poor response and obstructive camera angles ruined the Kong experience. Ubi will definitely iron this out thoughso watch for the final build
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NBA Live 06 - The build was rough, and there wasnt a developer on-hand. It did look pretty (easily recognized the 76ers roster), but played awkwardIve always found that basketball sims ultimately fail as video games.
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Need for Speed Most Wanted - Ive never been a huge NFS fan, but the initial test drive impressed. The speed is there, and it looks gorgeous. But the collisions are awkward and the traffic is too light for my tastes.
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Perfect Dark Zero - Mixed feelings. I want to like this game, but Ive got a sinking feeling it tells me that Ive been here beforeIve been here many times. Theres simply not enough innovation. PDZ cannot carry the Xbox 360 launch.
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Project Gotham Racing 3 - The cockpit view was hands-down the sweetest frickin ish on the showroom floor. I got lost staring out the passenger window, er, rather, I crashed into a wallmany walls. Visually stunning, same old Gotham gameplay.
Microsoft is banking on established franchises to carry its launch. This is a safe bet, and Im sure it will help the Xbox 360 to get a significant head-start in the next-gen console war. But as a serious gamer, Im disappointed. Nothing at this event blew my mind. In fact, I came away feeling like Ive been here beforeonly now, shes a lil bit prettier. The truth is, when you hook up the original Xbox to an HDTV, she looks pretty damn fine in her own right. I cant wait for developers to unlock whats really under the hood of the Xbox 360. But know that that will most certainly not be this November, or even perhaps, next November
For now, the innovation comes in the system
itself. In the Xbox dashboard, the Live integration, the gamer customization, and even the Live ArcadeI will cover
these features in greater detail in my next post. Thats not to say we wont have plenty of fun with the first wave of
Xbox 360 games. But its a lot like getting your old bike for your birthday again. Only now, its been repainted, its
got some new tires, and some gears have been added. For most of us, its not going to happen this time around, but
eventually, were gonna get tired of riding the same bikes, no matter how nice they look or how great they perform.
Microsoft is on to something with their gamer profiles and expansive Xbox Live service, but if all developers are going to offer us is playground after playground for riding our same old bikes, the real innovation of the Xbox 360 is gonna go to waste.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Conrad @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
OMG!
And now I've recovered from the shock... great feature!
Wee @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I do have to agree ... good feature.
Not suprised CoD2 was impressive, the PC demo was excellent. Same with Oblivion.
I'd heard DOA4 and PDZ weren't the most impressive games and definitely live up to their hype.
Looks forward to reading more later in the day.
Sloopydrew @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
It sounds like you liked 3 out of 10 games, and didn't like/were disappointed in/didn't feel it was your style 7 out of 10. And I noticed a lot of "same old" type comments. I can't say I'm surprised that Microsoft didn't bother to really innovate, outside of in the marketing department, but it is a little depressing. At least there were a few that impressed you. To be honest, I was hoping to read about some really innovative amazing games. I didn't think it would happen, but as a gamer I can't deny that it would have been nice.
tpp @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I still continue to feel dissapointed at the lack of true community building features in XBL. It's getting better and better, but could you please give us things like invite-only playzones, so that gaming communities such as seasonedgamers.com could stay the f*** away from the griefers that WILL ruin the playzone stuff.
Things like Gotham TV will be awesome though. Can't wait!
tpp @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Sloopy, a lot of those games are from 3rd party developers. It's not M$'s fault the developers are avoiding risk.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Do you people realize that these guys get paid to critisize? Of course they're going to slaughter the game's every angle and aspect,they are paid to do it. I don't listen to any critics or reviewers because it doesnt seem like they play it for fun,but rather break it down on a technical aspect. There's games out that got rated HORRIBLE ratings but I love and still play because I think they're fun.
It's the same thing with movies. Ebert and Roper gave movies "thumbs down" that I love and watch over and over. Why? Because they look at every single aspect of the movie and analyze it until there's nothing left because that's their job.
I don't go in a game looking at textures and all this all technical BS,I just play it and if I have fun then that's all that matters.If any of YOU do,well,then I think you're playing videogames for the wrong reasons.
Nico @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Remember kids, if you dont like these games youre into videogames for the wrong reasons. Get a new hobby, like golfing.
prooie @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I'd rather have this rather diverse lineup than being treated to a more limited one which focuses on Halo 3 as a killer app as I simply don't like or care about the Halo series.
zander106 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Wow, yeah, criticisms like "poor response" and "I've been here before" and "played awkward" are just so nitpicky. What an awful critic James is to "slaughter every game's single aspect." Like how he slaughtered Call Of Duty 2?
If you don't like the opinions here, you can always read another site more suited to your tastes. I feel like this site is aimed at relatively hardcore gamers, and it would be a disservice to us if the Joystiq staff simply aped the Microsoft marketing messages. God forbid that they actually have standards here.
I'm sure that when the PS3 games come out Joystiq will be just as harsh in their criticisms, for the simple fact that launch titles simply don't live up to expectations most of the time. The true innovation always seems to come in the second generation of a console's life (think Metal Gear Solid and FF7 on PSOne, Goldeneye and Zelda:Ocarina of Time on N64, GTA3 on PS2, etc...).
To criticize this post as evidence that Joystiq doesn't like to have fun or gets paid to hate games seems just ridiculous to me. Like all of us they just don't want to settle for "so-so" when there's so much potential for the next-gens...
OTAM'S BROTHER @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Yeah! Every game is fantastic, and if you don't believe my brother, believe me! Joystiq doesn't know what they're talking about! They only spent ten hours with the XBox 360 but I've spent like 1050 hours reading about it! This is going to be the best platform EVAR! I know because I saved all my money for it and if not everybody agrees then the game makers won't support it and then there will be no games so it will ultimately suck, and then I'd just be a stupid fanboy. Trust me and my brother, every single game for the XBox 360 is going to be great, despite what this apparently well-informated and relatively unbiased review says!
Michael Bleigh @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Why are people still questioning whether or not the Nintendo Revolution is a good idea? Once the graphics shock wears off, we will be left with some great-looking versions of the games we already play. Meanwhile Nintendo is at least trying to craft a unique experience, and taking a significant risk in doing so.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still be picking up an X360 (for the media center functionality and a couple other things), but I'm not counting on anything truly original out of the two companies (MS, Sony) who have spent enormous capital building franchises. Innovation is lost in the MS/Sony next-gen battle. But we will get some damn pretty graphics.
soco @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
the only reasonably impressive launch in the last 10 years was the N64, and that's because it was some of the first true 3D experiences of old 2d games, and easily had 4 player games for party situations.
IGN said this about the japanese release:
"The most well known of the games aren't stunning new paradigm shifts by any means, but rather, are graphically stunning, new versions of games with which we are already familiar."
(http://ps2.ign.com/articles/076/076144p1.html)
big surprise!
besides, graphical innovations, are still innovations. be it self-shading, or thousands of enemies on screen at once.
Zeta the gaming junkie @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I agree with #10, Joystiq is after the hardcore audience. And yes, they didnt like a few titles, but hey, when did launch titles ever live up to the hype? Xbox...well, maybe. PS2's was crap for sure. Personally, I'm glad that more people are getting time on the 360. That way we, the buying public, can be better informed. And #11, you should work for Microsoft, if they havent hired you already.
The1 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
You can blame MS for rushing the developers a bit. However, this is LAUNCH and I see that everyone expects soooooo much from MS/X360. We keep comparing the X360 launch to the XBOX launch when Halo was released, WHY? When SONY released the PS2, I do not remember any great game that caught my eye. I was playing Unreal and that was it. I wonder if the same opinions will be given for the PS3 when MGS4, KillZONE and GT5 do not make launchand no other game stands out.
Overall, I think this is the best you can expect from developers in a short time.
At launch, I am getting Kameo, PDO, and PGR and maybe Madden. I have Madden for the XBOX; call me a FOOTBALL lover.
The author stated that Kameo did nothing for him... Well, I fell for Kameo at E3 and everyone seems to love this game. Kameo is the killer game for the X360. MS wanted to cover all the genres in gaming and they did.
DJ_VO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't think this review should be surprising to anyone. Everything I have read to this point has pretty much said that xbox360 is essentially an xbox with better graphics. Did someone out there think MS was trying to innovate? No, they are trying to get the hardcore crowd. This crowd has certain well defined tastes and opinions of what is good and they don't really want change. Hardcore gamers love their games and essentially want graphically improved versions of the same. Based on this, I think they should be pretty happy with xbox360 and it should be successful among hardcore gamers. They will pump out a large number of call of duty clones, ridge racer clones, sports updates etc. Exactly what they gave us last gen but with better graphics.
I wish someone would shake up this next gen party and give us something new to look forward to beside better graphics. Don't get me wrong, I like better graphics and demand them from each new generation but that can't be all there is to consoles is graphical updates is it? Someone help!
Dan @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I booted up Far Cry Insticts yesterday on my old Xbox attached to my new 42" LCD tv, put it into "stretch" mode (since most Xbox games don't support widescreen), and was disappointed in how it looks. If all 360 does is get rid of the jaggies, make widescreen standard, and expand the draw distance then I'll be happy.
kuroshi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
ultimately game makers don't care what reviewers, your brother, or you think about the games. Contracts to support the 360 have already been signed by most developers. There will be very few independent developers making exclusives. The question is actually will there be support for the rev which currently has sega on board. I do agree that reviewers sometimes miss the point of games. As far as DOA being too glossy. Itagaki does this intentionaly as he has said that he is not trying to recreate reality, but create his own alternate world. DOA3 and DOAU were glossy. Maybe DOA is just not your game.
kuroshi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I truly hope that nintendo uses this opportunity to do something unique. Playing another mario or zelda or retro games using the remote is not unique. It's a unique interface on the same old game. I would like to see the create this generations "mario" and "zelda" instead of living of the past ones. I don't want to play mario party 27 or zelda 15, and I don't care what controller you use for them. I no longer believe, but I still hope.
Privo @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Listen, Let's keep it real: MS is a business, before it is a creative endeavors company. As a business, their focus is BEING FIRST in the next-gen console race. They know that for all the critiques and complaints all of us are going to get the 360 for the simple fact that we cannot sit by another half a year watching people playing a new gen of fames until PS3 comes out.
The reviewer being my best bro buddy and all, I had a chance to speak to him on site and probe a little deeper into the pros and cons of the 360. The kid knows what he's saying and, if anything, is baised towards the 360 from the get-go. Trust his words. We, like MS, know that you nerds will let your denial do the marketing work for them. Just hearing that 360 isn't as revolutionary as it could be is sending you nerds into a frenzy--Oh no! You might actually still have to go out and look for girlfriends! Darn!
Please recognize that you won't see the envelope pushed on the 360 until the PS3 launches and they HAVE to innovate, in order to edge out the competition. All in all it will be a good system. Save your money.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Don't listen to my brother,he's still stuck in the "i'm a hardcore gamer XTREME" mindset and can't enjoy anthing but AAA titles,although he only considers them AAA titles if he's told by reviewers and critics they are,not if he personally loves them.
I mean,just the other day I was playing WWF Royal Rumble on my Dreamcast,then I read a review of it saying how bad it was,and then I realised I want having fun anymore.
Sometimes I don't even bother playing games,I just go read reviews on them instead of actually playing them and basing an opinion on it for myself. I mean,if I can't have others tell me what I enjoy and what I don't then what do I have to live for?
I'm not even going to listen to music anymore.I'm going to walk into the CD store and say "hey,what's the best cd according to critics" and when the guy tells me some jazz cd,then i'll go buy it.I don't even like jazz,but if the critics say it's good it HAS to be!
zerolight @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I hate the whole it-all-feels-the-same-with-better-graphics complaints. I hate the theres-no-innovation arguments. Its a pathetic argument. I dont want a DS, because I dont want to play quirky innovative games that appeal to a small minority. I wont get the revolution for the same reason. There are only a finite number of games genres out there. All a developer can do is improve the graphics and sound to make it more immersive, polish the controls and game engine, and add in an interesting story or set piece. He can't really change the mechanics in a genre thats already worked out the best way to do it, and inventing a weaker genre for the sake of innovation is ultimately pointless.
FPS games have gone about as far as they can go. Its no wonder PDZ seems just like a shiny, pretty, FPS with nothing really new in it, other than a good story, improved graphics, and online modes, including co-op. Theres little you can add. Halo 2 ran into the same problem. Once youve taken a good game engine, and added a good story, there just isnt any place left to go. But fans of FPS games will still lap up a good, solid, FPS with a good story.
The same rings true for PGR3. Its a racing game. So what if its got the same basic gameplay as PGR2, but prettier. PGR2 was a fantastic game that had great structure to it. Polishing it up, adding a few more online modes, adding some new tracks, basically refining it for the next gen is all a developer can do, and lets be honest, its all a gamer really wants.
And it goes on for every genre.
Innovation. Bollox to that. Perfect the genres we have rather than making something different, for differents sake.
One day, when consoles have uber power, maybe well see one final innovation. Where all genres merge. Where the driving sections of GTA are taken straight out of PGR, physics and all. Where the shooting sections borrow from PDZ. And the story is as compelling as Farenheit. But its a long way off. Maybe the generation after the generation after the next.
Innovation my ass. Give me better versions of games I love. Warioware be gone.
I intend to buy both the 360 and the PS3. All I want out of it is a few good FPS games with online and offline modes, a good racing game or two, some sports titles, and some RPGs.
At launch, on the 360, everything I need or want is covered in Kameo, PGR3, PDZ, COD2, and Oblivion. Infact, if it launched with only PGR3 I'd still be happy.
zerolight @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Let's just clarify something that someone else brought up. PS3 (which I intend to buy too) won't be any more innovative than 360. And will likely share about 80% of the games with the 360, of which probably a large percentage will be pretty much the same on either format.
Let's also remember that we're talking about a console that costs between 200 and 300 depending on which option you stump for. It's not a lot of money to access the next generation of games. Which is why I am baffled by fanboys, or folk yelling, save your money.
A couple of hundred quid buys you a console capable of delivering graphics that just aren't possible on any other current hardware, even the top end PCs (though they will catch up). And in 6 months to a year you can pick up a PS3 for probably the same sort of money, and have access to games on both, not forgetting Xbox Live.
As of December, if you want some exclusives, like the wonderful PGR3, or the best versions of multiformat games, 360 is your console of choice. And if you can afford to buy that, then you sure as hell can afford to buy the PS3 too, when it launches here, reportedly a year later.
There's no need for fanboyism. There's no need for complaints on innovation. You can simply buy a cheap piece of hardware (in comparison to a PC, its closest rival) twice in the next year and have access to the best games available.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't understand the "no innovation" part of the review. Innovations in gaming come with paradigm shifts in technology like the shift from 2D to 3D, advent of the internet etc. Sony innovated with the PS1 by giving innovative gameplay in a never before seen 3D world. The Xbox innovated last generation by bringing truely innovative online gaming features to the console gaming world, as well as introducing the hard disk in consoles.
This generation, the biggest innovation you will see in console gaming world is how the gameplay experience will be augmented by online multiplayer gaming. "Spectator mode" on Xbox Live is the one of the biggest innovations you could think of in present gaming scenario - matched only by Nintendo's ambitious magic wand controller. In the PC world, the next big innovation would come with the release of the Physics Processing Unit (PPU) that will give us unprecedented accuracy of physics in the game world.
What is Sony bringing to the table this generation in terms of innovation? Why don't I hear gaming media crow the "same old, same old" line when it comes to Sony games? I can't believe how the media doesn't see those games as being just old gameplay packaged with pretty graphics.
Oh, a new Metal Gear Solid game - look how innovative the gameplay is controlling a wheezing, coughing old man??
Oh, a new Devil May Cry game - look how innovative the pretty hairdo of Dante is??
Oh ma, see the next Kill Zone game - look how innovative the game is compared to Call of Duty-2 ?? Your soldiers now land in flying barges !!
Oh my, look at the new Tekken game - how innovative the droplets of sweat on the fighter's body is??
Get over it. If you are looking for paradigm shifting innovations in gameplay, they coincide with paradigm shifts in the enabling technologies. The most notable innovations in game technologies have to do with the explosive growth of the internet, and the enhanced audio visual presentation of the games. Microsoft has covered both bases with it's unmatched and ever-improving Xbox Live, and its support for high-definition visuals by default.
The ball is in Sony's court now. I can't wait to see the media go ape-sh!t over Sony's upcoming PlayStation Festival at the end of this month. I'd be very surprised if I heard the complaints about lack of innovation from Sony from the gaming media covering that event.
Edgar Baez @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
To Number 21.
I'm sure Animal Crossing DS, Castlevania,Final Fantasy, Mario Kart DS, Metroid Prime: Hunters, Super Mario Bros. DS, AW:DS, are a little quirky games that appeal to a small minority. Those games don't even scratch the surface. SMB for the NES appealed to largest audience in the history of the video gaming world, the game is known world wide. I'm sure the NDS version which will feature "souped up graphics" from the NES version will appeal to a "small audience".
But the guy is right. When you get XBOX360, you are basically getting a souped up XBOX. If Call Of Duty 2 went out for XBOX it would be the same as if it were for XBOX360, just better graphics. I mean I like stunning graphics too. But I don't see why anyone would get hyped or really anxious for launch. Besides new games. The system itself isn't anything worth getting excited over. Same goes for the PS3.
To the guy who was walking about he didn't wanna play a new Mario or Zelda game with a different controller. Or that it didn't matter. Open Your Mind. Imagine that you used the controller as the sword for Link. Imagine you had a controller in each hand, strapped on each leg, and you controller Mario THAT WAY. Kinda makes you think huh? When you walk, Mario walks, when you jump, mario jumps, when you punch, mario punchs. Or is that little TOO interactive, or TOO innovative for you? Imagine on a FPS, the controller is the gun. You are the one shooting it, your not presssing a button that makes you aim and shoot. You are aiming, you are pressing the trigger.
I'm not bashing anything here. I'm just stating the facts. XBOX360 = XBOX + 360. PS3 = PS2 + 1. If you know what I mean... The Rev is providing a new experience. Now thats something to get excited for.
damoun @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
forgot one thing.
Joystiq awsome job, well done.
Andy S. @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Golly. DOA4 was the "most disappointing title on-hand"?
You'd think that Itagaki's Team Ninja could have done something a little more impressive with the "best console on earth".
Idiots.
Hugh Jass @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
The reason everyone is dumping on the new XBOX 360 is because it's FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS without a game. Yes, it's shiny, yes, it has the long-awaited Perfect Dark sequel ... but it's safe to assume that almost everyone reading this article already has the original XBOX, which has wonderful graphics, hundreds of games, a nice online service --- at a fraction of the 360's price. M$ hasn't even provided a complete answer on the new machine's backwards compatibility.
The question is not "does it suck?" but rather "should you upgrade from a perfectly decent console right now?"
The answer appears to be, "no, not yet." That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hugh Jass,
So, people will just wait on buying the Xbox 360 this holiday season because it is $400, and the PS3 is only 6 months away from launch. People think $400 for pretty graphics is too much money. But the same people say they might buy a PS3 when it launches. Haha..that is the ultimate hypocrisy. Is the PS3 going to cost $200 or less? Isn't $400 the same amount of money after 6 months?
So, when the PS3 eventually launches, people would just hand over their money to Sony, even if the PS3 is necessarily just as powerful as the Xbox360??
b-love @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I think Wensleydale with Cranberries will be "the REAL next-gen" cheese
DJ-VO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
@Zerolight
I dont think I've ever heard such a pathetic heap of complacent shite.
You say: ...."There are only a finite number of games genres out there. All a developer can do is improve the graphics and sound to make it more immersive, polish the controls and game engine, and add in an interesting story or set piece. He can't really change the mechanics in a genre thats already worked out the best way to do it, and inventing a weaker genre for the sake of innovation is ultimately pointless....."
A finite number of genres? This statemtent is utterly ludicrous. I guarantee you when stooges like you quit buying identical FPS and racing games, the developers will come up with new genres or at the least new spins on old genres that change them enough to make them REALLY different.
All a developer can do is improve the graphics, polish and controls?
This is insane!I have talked to several developers who are fricking tired of just updating graphics and polish. They WANT to offer NEW experiences. Unfortunately, closed minded people like you wont buy it so they can't do it and make money. Developers are FORCED to churn out the same shite because thats what the hardcore wants.
You are a hardcore fanboy for sure. All you can offer is, "please make my games shinier with more polish and I'll gladly pay another $400 for a console and $50 for each shinier more polished version of the same game". MS loves you because you don't have any real demands other than more of the same. Publishers love you because you don't expect them to offer anything new and you are willing to keep buying the same products over and over. If you were a woman you would probably love "soap operas" because they are already perfected and we just need to add prettier people each season. Talk about bollocks! I'm just glad that no one listened to tools like you 15 years ago because believe it or not, people were saying the same thing back then! If people listened to those like you back then, we would never have developed real 3-D because the fanboys of the day hated the "3-D JAGGIES" and just wanted prettier versions of 2D games! It sounded rediculous to me then and it sounds rediculous to me now. I expect developers to come up with NEW genres every 8 or 10 years as the old ones start to get stale. You do realize that FPS hasn't been around forever right? What would happen if everyone had your attitude before WOLF3D came out!? I'll tell you, WE WOULDN"T EVEN HAVE FPS!
So I say thank God for innovation and creative developers. Without them we would all be playing pong or missile command.
So shut up and quit trying to ruin the game industry by stifling the very innovation that has made it great.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
damoun,you're an idiot.
Basically you're saying is that other people are deciding what you enjoy. You call me an "ignorant retard" for basing an opinion on a game by actually playing it rather than reading a review. Reviews do nothing but tell you what another person thought of a game. A food critic could try to convince me a shit sandwhich tastes good but it doesnt mean i'll enjoy it.
You say "No you f**k head the reviewers are doing an awsome job, when they review a game, so then I will be able to know if a game is worth buying or not."
They tell you if a game is worth buying or not? That's pretty funny because with that mindset then whatever MTV says is good music you have to believe it is because they said so.
There's many,many games that I own and love that got destroyed by critics,but that isnt going to make me enjoy them any less.Silent Hill 4 got great reviews but I wanted to hang myself with the controller cord when I finished it beause it was horrible.
Why don't you be optimistic because you enjoy videogames and then decide on if it's shitty or not by,gee,I don't know,ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.
You are one of the biggest 'tards i've ever seen on the internet so save your whining for somewhere else.
Art Guy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"Should you upgrade from a perfectly decent console right now?"
A resounding YES!!!! The current Xbox is decent. But the 360 is amazing. I can't wait for widescreen games with 4x antialiasing in high def. Even if it only played original Xbox games with those specs I'd buy it. I blow $400 in a weekend easily.
p-diddy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Thanks Hugh, right on the money. And let's not forget that the 360 is not $400, it is more like $500 once you buy a game and/or another controller.
Sorry, I'm not paying $500 for current-gen games now or in 6 months when the PS3 comes out.
And people complaining about complaining about no innovation (yes, that's crticizing the critic's comments), I _expect_ innovation. X-Box Live revolutionized online play. MGS revolutionized the action/stealth genre. I expect revolutions if I am going to pay half-a-grand.
Glad I canceled my 360 pre-order now that Joystiq's said what I've been thinking for the last month.
-p-
Snap @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
*Yawn* This "next generation" is such a bore. Same old shite we just played only with a new coat of paint. /sleep
jumpinjehosafat @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Mark my words, nintendo revolution will be the best selling game console of all time. Once you get your hands on it, you won't want to play anything else!! later hosers
Art Guy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Revolution? Yawn. I can't seem to muster up any enthusiasm for a console with ZERO games. Show me some games, even just one running on actual hardware, then I'll start caring. Isn't it supposed to launch around the same time as the PS3? Nothing has been shown other than hollow plastic cases for the system and controller.
Privo @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
1. Remember that consumer's desires ALWAYS dictate the creative direction of the vendors. You want innovation, demand innovation! Like DJ-Vo said.
2. In all this bickering--who is going to buy a 360? I would like to know from this group so I can cancel my reservation if need be.
3. When reading critics and reveiws, you can't just let a single critique be your basis for jugdement. The reason publications use the SAME critics over and over, is becuase a critic is someone you build a repore w/ over time, until you know how your likes/dislikes stack up against the critic's likes/dislikes. If you know Ebert and Roeper like movies you hate in a specific genre, you go see the movies in that genre they say they disliked because you know you'll probably enjoy it.
A critic is not a dictator of opinion--a critic is a refrence point to formulate your own, more informed, conclusions. So get off the critic's dilsnick fanboys. Be easy.
DJ-VO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Privo is right on several counts and OTAM is just an idiot. Nevermind the fact that he completely misunderstood Damouns Point. No one claims they think a game is fun because a reviewer says it is you retard. Its that some of us dont have time to play EVERY damn game available so as consumers we need someone who gets paid to play every game give us an idea of what a game is like so we dont waste time on games that have problems. When I read a review, I dont just look at the reviewers rating number, I read what he/she likes/dislikes to figure out if the issues he/she brings up are ones I'm concerned about. I also like to read user reviews to get another perspective on games.
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I went last night and here was my comment from an earlier post:
"I went to the NYC 360 event tonight and while it was fun, and cool playing the 360, I admit I was a bit let down that it didn't totally blow me away. I wanted to be blown away. Now I realize it's the same as it's always been: the software needs to be next-gen for the games to feel next-gen.
I think the 360 is powerful enough to do it, I'm just saying the stuff I played tonight looks within a glance of current Xbox games. I know that's not the case, but it looks like these games could have been a well-designed Xbox game - there is of course more resolution, but the lighting and atmospheres were not immersive. Very crispy looking, not a lot of anti-aliasing to smooth the edge that the graphics have. Note I am not mistyping "edges," I am referring to the overall feel - the games looked like PC games. Call of Duty surprised me - I must get that title at launch, now that Ghost Recon is delayed.
I didn't play it, but King Kong was supposed to be really promising."
PickyPants @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hurray! DJ-VO is my new best friend.
zerolight, you have missed the point so entirely about gaming I want to kill myself.
Your post, although gramatically very astute, lacked any real argument. You said,
"Perfect the genres we have rather than making something different, for differents sake."
As if those were the only two options. Having a game that's different for different's sake is a small price to pay for expanding the genre. Are we to believe your arguement crosses over into movies and music? Everything's been done before, so why don't we just add more gloss.
They did that, it was called Star Wars Episode 1-3.
For your lack of insight and your insipid, but well worded arguement, you win this post's PickyPants "You are a fucking idiot" Award!
Yay! Congrats!
People please, stop buying the same old shit and let these developers "DEVELOP."
Let me state the definition of "DEVELOP"
To cause to become more complex or intricate; add detail and fullness to; elaborate: began with a good premise but developed it without imagination.
Yeah. Suck on it. And enjoy your award!
soco @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
to a certain extent, i'm with Zerolight. i'll be glad when this "innovation" fad is over. i don't, however, think we've reached a limit on innovation though and there are plenty of ways still left.
you can innovate, and still come up with a shit product. innovation for the sake of something new, is pointless. if you're aiming to improve an experience, of some sort, then it's worthwhile. shinier surfaces can improve the gameplay. i've seen plenty of game innovations that are just boring, few companies want to take the chances, and it seems as if most gamers don't care either.
don't misunderstand me, i'm obviously not against innovation, but the notions that 'only innovative things are fun' and 'this company isn't innovating enough' are just silly. it shouldn't be surprising since some people think that Nintendo was the first to introduce things like the analog stick and Cel-Shading. there's tons of innovation going on and most people don't see it, or write it off as simply being shinier.
i'll take a fun game over a forced innovation any day. give me a rehash of Mario Kart with new 32 levels, rather than a modified control scheme that makes it less fun.
besides, the best innovations are the ones you don't immediately notice. if you play a new game, and it's the first where a camera doesn't get in your way, and that helps you enjoy it more, then that's an innovation.
and as for being blown away, i think the chances of that happening for any future gaming console is relatively low. we have way too much media going on beforehand to numb us to anything new, before we ever get to put our hands on it. we're going to see videos of people playing the revolution, and a billion gameplay movies and screenshots before any of us have a chance to ever touch it. and then it's pretty much going to just slightly surprise or disappoint us, depending upon what our expectations were ahead of time. this is very different from 15 years ago, when we weren't flooded with media, information, and hands-on reviews, so that there were still some surprises left.
DJ-VO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
@Soco,
You say...."to a certain extent, i'm with Zerolight. i'll be glad when this "innovation" fad is over".....
Then I say, to a certain extent you also are part of the problem.
Innovation fad? Have you no brain at all? The gaming industry is essentially the exploitation of one innovation after another. Someone/company has the balls to try to take gaming to the next level and 1 time out of 5 it actually works. Then everyone else takes that idea and runs with it making it even better than the original person/company imagined. Thats why we need lots of experiments. Because most experiments fail. Most are not that great, but every so often new ideas turn out to be great and NO ONE SAW THEM COMING BECAUSE THEY WERE SO CONCERNCED WITH PERFECTING THE CURRENT EXISTING SHIT! Why aren't you playing a F*^&ING Atari 2600 right now? Why aren't you crying for better Colecovision games? Why? Because other companies innovated and improved to the point that those console are essentially crap now. Please thought Atari was awesome until they saw NES/SNES and then Playstation etc. You're like a person who refuses to see the "NES" or "Playstation" of our generation because you like the old shit so much.
No one is asking for innovation for innovations sake so quit with that Shite. We are asking for innovation because we are tired of the current games/genres limitations. We have all played great Shooters/FPS/Racing/Action/etc games and we have played them over and over. We want something new now. Even the best PGR game is still pretty much the same as Cruis-N-USA with better graphics. Give us something new and interesting. Would you read the same book over and over again if they just changed the character names? I doubt it, if you read at all. Its the same with music and art. Its the reason why someday when you actually have a girlfriend you'll realize that kissing her isn't nearly as exciting as it was when you first tried it.
We want innovation because it leads to newer better things. No matter how good you think PGR or PDZ are, I guarantee you that if we push developers, they will bring us things that make these games look rediculous. Can you imagine a game as much different and better than Halo as Halo is than some shitty Atari game? Well its possible if we get real and open our minds to new ideas.
Capital @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
To be honest, Im quite happy with the 360 lineup.
Impressions from ign are what really count for me anyways because this is..well..just joystiq. Despite what people say I am going to buy PDZ, and judge it for myself. As for the graphics, if PGR3 looks absolutely incredible than amazing graphics ARE possible on the 360.
Nick @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I'm a little confused here. What exactly are you guys looking for out of the launch titles for the 360?? I have been around for many a console launch, and I have to say that I have never seen a launch line-up as solid as this one?? What genre-busting titles did you expect to be launched with this system?? Besides the release of Halo with the orginal Xbox, what other console releases have had this many quality games come out in the launch window?? None that I remember. Please tell me what I'm missing here??
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Xbox 1.5 > Xbox 1
So, I will replace my Xbox 1 with Xbox 1.5.
My current Xbox never managed to read DL game discs correctly.
Let's all remember Microsoft never recognized there was a huge problem with many of their DVD drives. I guess a recall would have been too expensive, even for big M. Replacing a power cord is one thing. Replacing DVD drives is something else.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Nick,
The leap from PS1 to PS2 was huge. (Example: PS2 made 3D console games mainstream.)
People now expect the same kind of leap with each new generation. This time around, with Xbox 360, people perceive they are only getting a graphics upgrade.
soco @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
DJ-VO, yeah, do you like to pick stupid fights?
i agree with a lot of what you're saying. however, i see plenty of actual innovation occuring, unlike half the people on here saying there's no innovation happening. they think there was no innovation in this batch of games, but i'm seeing plenty of things i've never seen on a console before.
there really are people out there crying for innovation for teh sake of something new. they're like size queens, where bigger is always better. read some of the messages and you'll see them. they're never satisified with anything that comes down the line. they'll always complain there's no innovation in any of the things they're seeing.
the gaming industry is no different than any other. all companies feed upon what the others do, but still those minor improvements are innovations.
sure game developers will give new ideas if we push them, but this goes back to my original statement, i'd take a rehashed game, rather than 20 new games which try to hard to innovate and fail at being fun. don't argue that it'd never happen, because i've seen it happen in music and movies. some people just don't like certain styles of things, where the trends lead. especially, when after some time, the trend goes back to normal because people realize it wasn't all that cool. much like the trends of music that was Paula Abdul and Willson Philips.
Nick @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I can understand the concern with it merely being a graphics upgrade, but let's be honest here ... what is the next jump after going to 3D?? I think there are alot of things that this next generation are going to be bring to the forefront that you just can't see in a screenshot or through a crappy shaky-Cam video?? As an example ... Call of Duty 2 is using a Processor Core completely dedicated to AI!! Imagine a true AI in games ... none of this "pre-determined AI in a can" that we are seeing on the current gen systems. A CPU opponent who can actually think like a human-being, and react to what you are doing in real-time!! Now that is what the next-generation is going to bring!! I really think that it's going to be little things like True AI, and proper physics that are going to bring this next generation into it's own. You just can't see these aspects of a game until you have your hands on the controller and your playing it in your own living room!!
Just my 2 Cents!
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Nick,
I agree with you and that's what Joystiq's writer hinted at: Xbox 360 is a platform for innovation.
That does not change the fact we have seen no manifestation of this potential in launch titles. (maybe COD2 will be an exception)
Don't tell me the AI in PDZ is that of a human. Of a drunk monkey on speed, maybe.
The Prodigy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
basically, ur talkin bout how the pdz doesnt do anything new yea, well id like to know what did halo do that was so new/ o u can only hold two weapons, eerr well in real life u wont b able 2 hold a rocket launcher n a sniper rifle, where as in pdz, weapons take up slots, thats relaistic. ooo halos got a radar when people move, well pdz got a realistic radar where u c them when they make noise, just like in real life where u situationally know where sum 1 is by sound. look at the videos an url c how gd it is, game trailers, go there. screenshots cant show differing changes of lights, or character animations, neither cna a video show everthing, wait 4 launch. ms r goin 4 ur values, they want u 2 hav fun, look at the effort their puttin in 4 global launch. sony r jus stackin the box wid technology, which while it is gd, is gonna b expensive, nintendo r jus offerin sum lame excuse 4 a light gun!