Joystiq hands-on: Condemned (Xbox 360)
The surprise hit of Tuesday's exposé was Sega's Condemned: Criminal Origins. To bring you up to speed, the game pits you as an FBI agent on the hunt for a deranged serial killer that likes to pose his victims with mannequins. Taking a page out of DOOM 3, the game unfolds in darkness. Luckily, you've got a flashlight, which has the habit of fading out now and again, but at least you can wield a weapon while it's in use.
I played through the opening level, which teaches you the game's mechanics and sets up the plot (don't worry there won't be any big spoilers in this post). The game has a nice cinematic touch to it, almost like you're playing through a game adaptation of Se7en. In the first sequence you arrive at a crime scene and are greeted by a detective that leads you into an abandoned building. You follow him through a series of dark corridors as he babbles on about this and that-the truth is, it's hard to pay much attention to what the detective is saying since you're distracted by the darkness. At one point the detective turns into a room and just as you are about to follow, you catch some kind of movement in the shadows down the hall. "What the #*$@ was that?!" I asked the rep sitting next to me. "Exactly," he said.
I really enjoyed the pacing of this opening scene. After rejoining the detective, we made our way into a dimly lit
room were another cop was waiting. This is where our crime scene was. The serial killer in question had pieced together
a violent dinner scene. On one end of a table adorned with food and drink sat a male mannequin. Directly across from
him was a mangled female body (the victim) arranged on the floor as if she had been knocked from her
chair.
This is where the investigation component of Condemned kicked in. After chatting with your supervisor, you
get down to the dirty-dirty, breaking out the black light and other devices in order to uncover the hard evidence. In
truth, I was a little disappointed about how easy the game makes your detective work—but perhaps the hints and clues
diminish on higher difficulties or later levels. Basically, if you're not told directly by your supervisor to do
something, you'll be treated to a flashback (yes, your character has some kinda ESP goin' on) that will show you
glimpses of what happened in that particular space, cluing you in on where to direct your forensics work. But overall,
this gimmick works really well, and helps to break up the tense moments that transpire as you make your way
through the darkness.
Without giving up too much more of the plot,
I'll just say that something is turning the vagrants and derelicts that roam the city into violent psychotics (and
they're all after you). If you've followed any of the previous coverage on Condemned, you know that the game
lets you grab bits and pieces of just about anything (e.g. a lead pipe, a 2x4 laced with rusty nails, a mannequin's
arm, etc.) to combat your new foes. There are guns too, but since ammo is sparse, you're gonna be spending most of your
time in hand-to-hand combat—oh yeah, you've also got a taser...
If violence isn't your bag, stay far, far away from Condemned. However, for those of you that enjoy a good fight, I assure you, you'll find yourself pleasantly satisfied after beating some crazed-freak to death. The weapon/combat system works well. Whenever you come across an object you can wield, a little menu will pop up that compares your current weapon with this new one. It's a simple +/- breakdown that includes categories like damage, speed, defense, etc. The combat itself is frantic and brutal. Getting pummeled upside your head will knock your POV around, momentarily disorienting you. It's best to get the fist shot in or at least try to block an ambush attack. The prevailing darkness adds to the chaos, as you'll periodically loose sight of your opponent as he ducks into the shadows or behind an obstruction.
My biggest complaint with Condemned is that your path through the levels is too linear. It would be much more satisfying if you were tossed into a building (or crime scene) and then allowed to explore it with greater freedom of movement. Instead, Condemned uses blocked doorways/passages to force you down a single path, which, when you take away the creepy atmosphere, is a lot like any old first-gen FPS game—basically it's a corridor crawler (one of the biggest knocks against DOOM 3).
Even so, the darkness makes it easy to get
lost—so you can imagine how frustrating it might be if the environment was wide-open. Perhaps, a map would cure this,
but altering the format that Monolith chose would change the pace of the game. By forcing you down a linear path,
Monolith gets to decide exactly when you're gonna get spooked, jumped by psychos, and in general, crap yourself.
However, keep in mind that a game like Condemned probably doesn't have much replay value—there is certainly no
multiplayer mode.
Condemned: Criminal Origins is going to satisfy a lot of Xbox 360 owners. It's got great looks (even in darkness) and an interesting investigative spin. The hand-to-hand combat is a welcome change from the usual guns-blazing FPS experience—and it really works. Again, there's nothing about this title that screams "innovation," but I recommend it as one of the first games you should rent or buy (with the intention to trade-in) when the Xbox 360 launches next month.
UPDATE
In response to Master Mischief's comment, that is, what do I mean by "innovation," let me say a few words... It seems like a number of readers (or at least the one's that choose to comment) are getting frustrated with my concerns (and others') that the initial Xbox 360 lineup will feature games that really don't offer anything new (that is, innovative) in terms of gameplay in their respective genres. I don't think that "scratching Wario's armpits or patting a dog with the stylus on a touchscreen" is the only way to be innovative. The concern is, that if all developers are doing is polishing graphics, adding textures, and smoothing framerates then essentially, we're playing the same games we've been playing for the past 4-5 years or so. That's not fun to me. It's boring.
The truth is I've been crawling through corridors for more than a decade. I appreciate it when developers make an effort to add something new to that experience—it doesn't always work (e.g. Breakdown), but that's the risk. I think one direction that FPS titles can head is towards a greater sense of immersion. What would be innovative, for example, would be if I could will my character through a barrier comprised of a ragged couch and some planks. I know that according to the physical abilities of my video game character, he should be able to get through that barrier, but he can't. This simple element detracts from my gaming experience and is a crutch that developers have used since the early 90's to create the illusion that the space I'm playing in is bigger than a maze of narrow corridors—but after years of playing this same format, that illusion has worn thin.
I just don't understand those of you that want to settle. Why are you so content with playing the same game again and again? Why are you unwilling to be critical—to demand that developers take risks? These aren't buzz words I'm using. This isn't a ploy to convince you not to buy the Xbox 360 and all of its launch titles. I'm telling you what I came away with after playing the Xbox 360 for nearly 10 hours on Tuesday. I like Condemned, it's fun. Does it break boundaries in the genre? No. Is it wrong for me to point that out?
C'mon guys, why are you so eager to defend something you haven't played? Or rather, why are you so eager to defend something you have played—only it's been re-packaged and fed to you for another $60?





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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
TheUndertow @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
This is looking more and more like a launch day buy for me...gotta love the variety in launch games/genres.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
All those who are fed up of this "innovation" jibber-jabber, raise your hands !!
Not everyone thinks scratching Wario's armpits or patting a dog with the stylus on a touchscreen is the best idea of fun - however innovative it might be.
I don't know how many of these "innovation" junkies saw game systems sold in every shopping mall where you can play ping-pong game by waving a real ping-pong bat, or play a boxing game by throwing punches with real boxing gloves. How many people went ga-ga over these type of game machines? Moreso, how many people actually bought one of these game systems? This is precisely the kind of games the Nintendo is trying to bring in - only with better graphics and games.
I would really like to ask the author of the article what "innovation" he would have liked to see in the game. A honest-to-goodness answer, please.
Watership @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Allow me to sum up all i've heard about the Xbox 360 in the past month.
"not next-gen"
"does not innovate"
"rushed"
"xbox 1.5"
"xbox 180""dreamcast 360"
"ps3 is twice as powerful"
"I trust Nintendo"
"flop"
"plastic"
Over and over and over. These are not valid criticisms, they're buz words and rhetoric. They're handy throw around terms by people who saw the Killzone "MOVIE" and then said, "That's Next Gen!", then saw the 360 ACTUAL games, and were disapointed when Jesus didn't step out of the screen.
If the 360 is not Next Gen, then what is? Because the best looking games ever, that are playable, are on the Xbox 360 now. These are also with late dev kits (the only real xbox360 screw up).
Don't point me to screen shots or movies or real time lighting demonstrations. Why? because, say it with me, "they are not games." They are technical demonstrations. Remember when PS2 was banned for being a supercomputer, before it came out? Ya.
And the innovation comment really bugs me. Name an inovative game that came out for a console at launch. Mario 64 is the last game I recall doing that.
Rant over!
Watership @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Allow me to sum up all i've heard about the Xbox 360 in the past month.
"not next-gen"
"does not innovate"
"rushed"
"xbox 1.5"
"xbox 180""dreamcast 360"
"ps3 is twice as powerful"
"I trust Nintendo"
"flop"
"plastic"
Over and over and over. These are not valid criticisms, they're buz words and rhetoric. They're handy throw around terms by people who saw the Killzone "MOVIE" and then said, "That's Next Gen!", then saw the 360 ACTUAL games, and were disapointed when Jesus didn't step out of the screen.
If the 360 is not Next Gen, then what is? Because the best looking games ever, that are playable, are on the Xbox 360 now. These are also with late dev kits (the only real xbox360 screw up).
Don't point me to screen shots or movies or real time lighting demonstrations. Why? because, say it with me, "they are not games." They are technical demonstrations. Remember when PS2 was banned for being a supercomputer, before it came out? Ya.
And the innovation comment really bugs me. Name an inovative game that came out for a console at launch. Mario 64 is the last game I recall doing that.
Rant over!
Vincent @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Amen, James.
Although I haven't played the games myself, I could've predicted this months ago--BEFORE I saw any Revolution controller. While Sony and MS were touting their polygons, getting people all worked up over the capabilities of their hardware (which are undoubtedly impressive, don't get me wrong), it seemed clear to me that their pissing contest was only adding to the stagnation of the industry.
Very few genuinely new things have come out in recent years, simply because so much emphasis has been placed on powerful systems.
So, Master Mischief, don't get mad at the writer for being unimpressed with stale gameplay mechanics of a new game. It was there for the testing, there for first impressions, of videogame professionals; and if he says it's not innovative, then guess what. He's probably right. Get over it. And GTFO. If all you want is somebody raving over the same-old-same-old, go somewhere else. Don't get all worked up because he didn't say what you wanted to hear.
CheapyD @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
When I played Condemned, it reminded me a lot of Kingpin, which is an older PC game which also invlolves hitting criminals over the head with blunt objects.
Kingpin didn't sent the world on fire either, but it was pretty, violent, and somewhat entertaining.
I predict similar reviews.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197729.asp?q=kingpin
Eric B @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't think that there is anything wrong with expecting more from video games, but what you are asking for isn't reasonable. National healthcare would be great, but it isn't reasonable. Having all game development studios straying from the same old same old, spending millions of dollars on innovative ideas that most likely will flop, not reasonable.
The future of next-generation gaming is this: Much better more realistic physics. Three symetrical cores help out with that. You will definitely tell and it will be "next-gen". High Definition video resolutions. Again, this will be night and day, definitely next-gen. Much larger more interactive and immersive Live experience. Again, I dare say that how the Xbox 360 games utilize Live will definitely be "next-gen" as compared to the Xbox.
I think you definitely make some valid points on some of the shortcoming of the launch titles, but remember, they are launch titles.
The reason you are eliciting the negative responses to your posts is because nobody (like myself) likes to read an article that basically tells them that the $500 system that they have reserved and paid for won't be much different at all than the current Xbox sitting in their living room. In a round about way, that is exactly what you have been saying in your review of the Xbox 360. Again, it is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. That being said, don't act surprised at all when people voice their displeasure at your negative reviews.
monmin @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Innovation can be fine, but there is nothing wrong with evolution either.
Condemned sounds like a game that has evolved from previous games. The reviewer seems to be bored with that. As a reviewer he is obligated to give us his opinion. It is our job to weigh his opinion with our own opinions and make a decision for ourselves.
Personally, I would be pissed if the games industry as a whole decided to ditch the FPS format. I still enjoy FPS. When the reviewer says this is not inovative and is similar to other FPS games to me that could be a good thing. I'm not bored with FPS yet. Gimme more.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hey Vincent..
Nice try beating around the bush. You still haven't given me what you define as "innovation". Tell me what you were expecting in terms of "innovation", and what disappointed you. Would you rather answer my question or would you rather we deal in four letter words? I know a lot of them.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Eric B,
You reap what you sow.
Stage 1: Manufacturers, developers, publishers and retailers hype next-generation products relentlessly until our ears fall off and our eyes burst out.
Stage 2: Launch titles do not deliver on their hype and promises.
Stage 3: Gamers get all pissed and complain a lot.
Stage 4: Manufacturers, developers, publishers and retailers blame gamers for having unrealistic/unreasonable expectations.
Microsoft, as of this instant, is still pushing PDZ has the Halo killer, a tremendous next-generation title that will change everything and open new horizons...even though everybody realizes PDZ won't cut it and won't be a system seller.
If you defend this kind of behavior, you must have an agenda. Do you work for a manufacturer, developer, publisher or retailer?
LMAO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Innovation? How come they haven't release a flying car yet? It's the 21st century already...Awww shoot might not be in my lifetime. How about that moving basketball hoop that I saw a while back in those Sprite commercials? Oh yeah, let's look for a Nintendo POWER GLOVE! whoo hoo. Wait I think my brother still has one of those Nintendo Virtual Boy lying around...
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
#9 and #11
Because you are unable to imagine new forms of gameplay does not mean it's impossible.
It means you are incompetent as game designers.
Until someone does it, everybody else says it's impossible.
Pong: Video games will never work.
Platformers: You can't have screen transitions and sliding backgrounds.
3D games: They cause motion sickness and trigger epileptic seizures. It's just a fad. The hardware will never be able to handle that.
Real-time stragey games: What's the point of that? People want 3D games.
Point-and-click adventure games: Who in the world would want to play games with a mouse?
Multiplayer games: Modems are too slow. It'll never work.
MMORPGs: Nothing can beat D&D role playing. It's a fad.
The SimCity genre: Who would want to bother managing a city. It's boring. It won't last.
And the list goes on and on...
LMAO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
What? Didn't you take a look at my list of innovations? My golly I guess people are getting too offended before they even tried to comprehend the context of my paragraph. I do understand the whole idea of innovation, however, it shouldn't come at a rate which will overwhelm the whole experience. A new product should includes elements of something familar, probably most of it anyway, something that works really well. Now imagine if we all had flying cars starting tomorrow...how would traffic look like? LOL.
Wad @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Nice review. Keep it real and dont worry about the xbox fanboys. I expect the same reviews on the ps3 when its available. We need to know the truth not just sold a line from the publishers.
We need something new to make it "Next Generation" not just rehashing the same style over and over again.
Jordan Lund @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
It seems like the author is not happy with the fact that new genres aren't developing for the new hardware. The thing is that new genres are really, really hard to come up with.
I think the last two completely new games to come out were Katamari Damacy (which even then could be said to draw from the same mold as Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg) and Dance Dance Revolution.
If you think about it, the genres changed a little when we started going into 3D titles, but have stayed more or less the same since 1995.
Vert. shooter
Horizontal shooter
FPS
Adventure
/Survival Horror (Adventure subcategory)
Platform
Flight
Driving
Fighting
/Side scroll fighting
Puzzle
Rhythm (Parappa, DDR)
Sim
I think that's pretty much it. Here's my bold prediction... Every next gen game, Xbox 360, PS3, Nintendo Revolution, is going to fit one o these categories. So will the generation after that.
LMAO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hey...you know what, there's plenty of innovative game play right now. I was just at Circuit City yesterday and I saw one of those Donkey Kong drums attached to a Gamecube. Well be my guest, and don't complain yo. Or better yet, please go out and buy a dance pad for DDR. Hey I have a couple of them in the house, which was barely used...
Eric B @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"If you defend this kind of behavior, you must have an agenda. Do you work for a manufacturer, developer, publisher or retailer?"
No agenda here, just my opinion. I do not work for a manufacturer, publisher, or retailer. I do however give them plenty of my money.
I would only ask that you hold your final verdict on Perfect Dark Zero until it launches. I do think it will have the potential to be a system seller. Remember, this is only one reviewers remarks.
When the game launches, who knows, Gamespot, IGN, etc may be rating the game a 9.5/10 or something. My point is, lets not say the sky is falling until you actually see it falling.
Time will answer all of our predictions/complaints. I myself am very much looking forward to all the next-gen systems.
Badison @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Is donkey kong's drums innovative? appeared to be a duplicate of the taiko genre made by Namco, no?
Martin @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Well I am excited about next gen because pretty new graphics are always nice but yes I am worried about the same ole gaming experience. I think one of my biggest worries as Eric B eluted to above is that why would I want to buy a 360 when a similar game is already available for the xbox? I think MS has made a big mistake by speeding up the time between console generations. MS has already said that they will definetly continue to support the xbox and currently the xbox is producing great looking games - I think the system is just peaking and already MS wants to drop the 360??
Pushing up the nextgen time line will negatively effect the gaming world.
As an aside I am more excited about F.E.A.R. for the PC than any nextgen game be it 360 or PS3
Badison @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Personally I don't mind a good strategy game, or a good fantasy rpg game, or a good racing simulators (seriously people need to quite down about innovation in simulation games, it's suppose to simulate for the most part so I wouldn't expect a terribly large amount of innovation... but who knows). Innovation is nice if implemented correctly, but there's nothing wrong with a good game that follows some sort of mix, in my opinion.
Also, don't forget not everyone knows/has enjoyed/tried every kind of game developed so far. Some of this WILL be new to consumers. Plus people have different tastes, it's not like telling someone what they like is bad will help or convince them.
I think it might help if people sat down and tried to post NEW ideas. Or improvements. Or maybe joystiq should open a entry, one just for new ideas (within some kind of frame work). People can complain all they want, but go ahead and discuss new/innovative play mechanics, graphic ideas/user interface, new use of sound, new characters ! new stories....
It might be funner than all the criticism and personal attacks (but watch, I bet you wont get too many innovative entries even when people aim just to come up with innovative ideas). People talk like innovation is so easy, or all game companies SHOULD be doing it... seems like an over simplification of this entire form of entertainment/art.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Jordan Lund,
Again, read #12.
There is an idea I came up with before typing this comment, after 5 minutes of brainstorming only:
Take a game like Condemned, put it on Xbox Live, have it played by 3 gamers via 3 different story arcs.
The first gamer plays the story from the standpoint of the serial killer.
The second gamer plays the role of the FBI agent, as in Condemned.
The third gamer plays the role of an investigative journalist in her attempt to document the rise of a mysterious sect.
All 3 story arcs interrelate and intertwine.
Examples: 1) If the journalist gets a chance to talk to a victim before the serial killer kills her, the FBI agent may get a tip from the journalist. 2) Any physical change or damage the serial killer, the journalist or the FBI agent make in the game world affects the serial killer, the journalist or the FBI agent's story arcs. (The serial killer may leave misleading clues for the FBI agent or try to manipulate the journalist in order to achieve specific goals.) 3) Puzzle and co-op gameplay also occurs in an interrelated fashion.
I'll stop there, but I don't think it's so difficult to come up with innovative entertainment opportunities...
It would sure beat the story of a guy who spends 80% of his time beating freaks up with a steel pipe...between 2 rounds of questioning.
kuroshi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Okay what is this innovation that every one keeps talking about? Should we stop making FPS because it's been done already? How about the platformer, fighting game, puzzle game, RPG? Mario party 32 will not be innovative on the rev because of the controller. It's the same game just a new interface. Many people like playing games. Games should be fun and if you try to innovate just for innovations sake. You risk making games that while innovative are not fun to play and no one buys. Industry collapse for innovation is stupid. Games need to sell.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Innovation could also mean pushing the boundaries of technology to increase the realism of the game world - like more believable greenery by the side of a race track, instead of just a patch of alternating dark and light green passed off as grass, or a 2D sprite cutout passed off for a spectator around a race track. Innovation in a game could also mean being able to see farther into the horizon than ever before - and being able to see and decipher action going on near the horizon. Innovation could also mean better cloth-physics on the lead characters - mimicking the movement of a real fabric, rather than making the clothes looking like sheets of plastic. Innovation could also mean better AI that more closely mimicks real life - like an NPC in an RPG who changes his response to your behavior according to the nature of your actions. Innovation could also mean allowing people to be able to talk to their competitors across the world in real-time while playing the same game. Allowing thousands of people to watch a game in progress in near real-time could also be an innovation. Innovation could also be increased interaction with the environment - like destructible world, and the ability to use any object within reach to execute a task.
Innovation could also be enabling people to play the game the way they want - and have the game respond to you by matching to your style of gameplay.
Just because you don't see the wheel being reinvented every single game doesn't mean there is no innovation. If only people know how much work and investment goes into making one of these massive game productions, people would realize that innovation needs to be practical too. If you want dime-a-dozen novelty games every day, you should scoure the internet to find indie game developers coming up with addictive flash or java based games. Much less risk, much less investment - more chance to "innovate".
Choose your poison.
kuroshi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
What you speak of is the evolution of gaming. That is what the gen of machines will do. Games should become more immersive, interactive, and compelling. The video games industry has passed the movie industry. They are not trying to change a success. Condemed succeeds on many of these levels. Is it the same game you've played before? Essentially, yes but so is Quake 4, MGS4, and all of the others. So if innovation is your thing, then the consoles are not your place. Go to the web and find some incredible independant projects. They need your support.
Vincent @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Mischief, my goal was not to give you my ideas of innovation, nor was it to start a flame war--though you seem ready for that. I'm not a game developer (and obviously, neither are you), and as such, my ideas would go to waste. No point in wasting the time on them.
I was just saying that it's stupid that you're complaining about the author's simple statement that thusfar, his experience with the 360 has offered little, if anything, new, aside from more textures and polygons--while you at the same time are bashing the new ideas that HAVE been brought to the table (eg Warioware and Nintendogs, which offer very different experiences than traditional 3D videogames of which you seem so fond).
You mentioned your idea of innovation in your last post, most of which would more accurately be considered "evolution"--or, even, "inevitability." Games and systems are always going to get more powerful, able to push the visual experience further, resulting in more realistic physics, and all the things we expect from advancements in HARDWARE (not necessarily the software that uses it). That's a given. The author praised aspects of the online service that could, on the other hand, be considered "innovative". Services that you yourself mentioned.
That's all beside the point. The definition of "innovation" in the gaming world is absolutely debatable, obviously, because it's completely subjective; my idea of innovation isn't going to be the same as yours. But the writer simply stated that PDZ and Condemned, though they had their strong points and were beautiful to look at, were not truly a unique experience--therefore approaching the games with the objectivity and skepticality that any good videogame journalist should. He brought out strong points AND weak points (namely: stale, uninventive gameplay, which you'll find in ANY review of a mediocre game), just like a good journalist should. He was doing his job.
If you would rather have your ears tickled by somebody raving about the immersive experience and fresh gameplay offered by 360 launch titles, by all means, go elsewhere. But you'll only find such opinions from fanboys; any respectable game journalist will approach the games with the same attitude as Ransom-Wiley did. In the meantime, such one-sided and critical comments as yours aren't welcome. My point still stands: if you don't like what you're hearing, GTFO.
Master Mischief @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Vincent.. you MOFO, listen, if you want to spit out filthy four letter words, you're going to be answered in kind. So listen you DICK, when you say:
"Games and systems are always going to get more powerful, able to push the visual experience further, resulting in more realistic physics, and all the things we expect from advancements in HARDWARE (not necessarily the software that uses it). That's a given."
Do you mean, if you ran last generation game code on brand spanking new hardware, it would give you better physics, better interactivity with the game world, better visual effects, without actually the developers modeling these effects? Oh yeah, you could go from a frigid plastic looking coat on the hero to a free flowing, form fitting fabric, just by running the old code on a faster processor, right ?? The developer need not work hard to find new ways to do things - just run the same code with increased parameters through a more powerful processor and GPU, and lo and behold, we will get graphical improvements. Realistic lighting and shadows don't count as innovations - they are just improvements due to a more powerful hardware, right MOFO?
I can't understand how people simply dismiss something that looks prettier and more realisitc as being just a graphical improvement, and not innovative coding or simulation to improve the way things are done.
Well, you know what DICK, you wouldn't understand my point anyway. You look for your next truly innovative game, and I'll look for the next pretty racing sim or the next fantasy platformer.
Now, STFU and GTFO my back.
Whyz @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I completely agree with your update. I've already pre-ordered my Xbox 360, but that doesn't mean I must reserve any criticism. Also, I think the reason we have to shovel through a heap of average games is because the average gamer keeps buying them. Developers see that as demand when the truth is gamers are just settling. Innovation doesn't simp;y come with hefty tech specs. Shadow of he Colossus doesn't need the 360 or PS3 hardware to innovate. Resident Evil 4 didn't simply have polished graphics; the entire gameplay changed with outstanding results. Next generation consoles will have the power to change the way we play games. But it's the gamers that will determine how quickly and comprehensively that change comes.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
In my last post, #21, I referred to gameplay innovations.
All of you seem to be more interested in technical innovations.
While I always appreciate better visuals, fun is what counts, right?
Remember "Enter The Matrix"? Motion-captured animations, support for 480p, 720p, 1080i, Dolby Digital, a brand new control scheme, a special lighting engine, a Matrix-like slow-motion rendering mode, etc.
Who does remember that game? Few.
There is a lot of technology available today. This technology could be used to produce very good games.
Developers and publishers, however, do not know how to sell good games. So, they figure they might as well crank them out as fast as possible and rejoice when one of them hits the mark. (hurrying up the work on a couple of sequels when one of them does hit the mark)
COD2, everybody agrees, looks wonderful.
OK, well, I watched all gameplay videos available as of today and they all look the same: You run, you aim, you shoot, you cover, you run, you aim, you shoot, you cover...etc. That's 90% of the gameplay...that's the same gameplay you experienced in hundreds of war shooters during the past 5 years.
So, technically, COD2 is amazing. Does it mean it will captivate you, immerse you and grab you until the wee hours of the morning? I don't think so. Level after level, you will know what to expect. You will get different weapons now and then. You will get to drive a high-resolution tank or motorbike. 100% predictable. There will zero surprise throughout the entire experience.
Finally, if next-generation games are going to be defined by technology updates, developers should really come up with original stories and scenarios.
The tried and true "Get to point B from point A clearing task X, Y, Z on the way." is tired and through.
Matt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't think I'll be using joystiq for my video game reviews. These guys expect too much of what is already beyond expectations.
Condemned reviews will be extremely high, from my point of view, I believe Condemned will be scoring a 9.0 or even 10.0 on many review magazines and websites.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Whyz,
I agree with you 100% and I think Resident Evil 4 will be game of the year for many reviewers.
Vincent @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Wow, Mischief. Namecalling. It's nice that you can have a mature conversation about the definition of innovation as stated in the article.
Like I said, I didn't want a flamewar, and I never meant to attack you personally--which you apparently thought I did, thus the namecalling. But, I won't stoop to that. I'll just restate my point in a way in which I hope you can understand it and not be offended by it. (By the way, there's a large difference between four-letter acronyms and four-letter words. Just so you know.)
Anyway, I didn't deny that it takes good code to utilize the hardware properly. I simply said that it's inevitable. If the hardware can handle more code, people are going to take advantage of it. Period. Evolution. Not innovation.
At least, not in the sense that the article states. Your argument is losing ground, because you're talking technical feats--which, again, the writer praised the games for. But that's simply not the issue.
He's talking about gameplay mechanics. Plain and simple. And, as stated on more than one occasion, the games don't offer anything new. No new innovative (or whatever the hell you want to call it) gameplay options or whatever--which AREN'T destined for obscurity, as your reference to indie games suggests--have been placed on the table here, leaving the author feeling it's the same-old with a prettier face. I'm sure that his feelings will be echoed across the industry as more people get hands-on with the 360 and its launch titles.
And as you said, if you're willing to spend money on the same games with different faces, then feel free. Nobody said your viewpoint or taste in games was wrong (although you indicate that it's slightly uncreative). I just said if you want to read about technical advances regardless of excellent gameplay, there're places for that. Don't complain that the journalist was bringing out a negative point--lack of "innovation" in gameplay mechanics across the board--because he's doing his job of informing consumers of the pros and cons of upcoming games--in an effort, really, to help you spend your money more wisely. If you'd rather read butkissing of the capabilities of the hardware and the visual beauty of the software that they run, go somewhere else. Quit trolling. End of discussion.
TiaMaster @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Waterships is the man.
Finally some SMART postings...
Badison @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Hey people, I have a question... many people consider Nintendogs "innovative". In what way?
In the most general sense I don't think it's very new. It's a shiny version of tamagotchi. In more specific ways it is new. But, I'm just curious what people think (because i don't know whether or not i think it's innovative).
Also, all this talk reminds me of the problems people have talking about international theories or other behavior theories. What is the level of analysis or what aspects are people focusing on? The general genre? the controls? the hardware? the sound? play mechanics? length? pace? story? graphics? sound? how it is different than those withing the genre? on the sytem? what?
Frankly, I dont buy or not buy a game by first thinking "is it innovative" I enjoy a wide variety of games and like to test out for a little even the bad/not fun ones (um but not buy of course lol)...
michael @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
so basically this is what i got from all of that blah blah blah. it all boils down to having fun or enjoyment...whether it be innovation or same stuff implimented in a way that keeps bringing you back. innovation is good, tried and true is good , great graphics are good, immersion is good, but none of this matters aslong as the end product is fun.
KOKITO @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I just want to point something that most of you might already know. Me personally I don’t mind old games polished up…….and I hope every one doesn’t eider cause then N64, gba, Ps one, ps2, xbox, psp, Xbox 360 and Ps3 Have been doing for the past years…like Mario, halo, resident evil, spider man, metal gear slid,Sonic, DOA, get that point!! …. There all great games, just better looking, bigger worlds, better Ai, more polys, and tones of features….. The name of the console influences on some points… for example.. quality of games or endurance of the console or even monopoly “company’s heaters “ at the end of the day there all the same.. its all about the money…..I personally Love my xbox, but I look forward to the power of the cell and the revolution of nintendo”cause I know I’m going to love my 360” Peace out and enjoy The Next Gen …..
SilverDogg @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
it seems to me that an awful alot of people just cant accept that james dont find this game innovating. sure, a game doesnt have to be innovating, but if you dont put anything new in a game after a while, well, it gets a tad boring.
i dont mind playing games that is not very different from the prequel, i might actually enjoy games like that, and i could probably enjoy condemned aswell. but still, at some point something has to be done, or we will just be buying the same games over and over again, with different packages.
Alexei @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Good review.
Anybody who wants to argue with a well written piece of somebody's opinion is an idiot. He isn't dictating reality, he's commenting on what he sees.
I agree that none of these games look very interesting, myself. I read in a review of the new PDZ that you cannot jump? JUMP? Come on. The reviewer figured it was because of multiplayer, but if a developer cannot set their game up to function with jumping as an option in the game settings, they're clearly not trying to INNOVATE but rather are going backwards in time. These are the types of decisions plaguing the first round of 360 games.
You want INNOVATION? I waited in line to by a PS2 when it came out. I purchased Tekken- it sure was pretty. What a waste of money I thought I had just taken part in, buying at launch when the very limited number of games all looked like shiny crap. I definitely did NOT purchase that silly snowboarding game, SSX- because when had their ever been a good snowboarding game? Until I rented it and realized it was one of the most fun games I'd ever played, so I bought it. It was probably the most fun I had from that system for months, and it was a launch title. I played it with my friends so much it stopped working, and I had to buy it AGAIN. And then the BIG label started to outsell other branches of EA, based on the pretty giant leap they took in producing that odd odd snowboarding game. Moral of the story: there is always room for innovation. Saying that it is the launch and nothing good comes out at launch is a load of shit. If Microsoft wants you to buy their system, they should be watching over what kind of games come out and making sure that they don't suck, plain and simple.
And stop trying to make this about personal attacks- that's a waste of time. The reviewer in this case, I felt, was extremely nice to the game. All the elements in place were solid, they just weren't too original. It sounds like an honest evaluation.
Sam @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
What about Breakdown didn't work? I played it and loved it.
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
"What would be innovative, for example, would be if I could will my character through a barrier comprised of a ragged couch and some planks."
You make it sound like that has never been done. You can do that kind of stuff in Half-Life 2 - including making barriers out of stuff lying around to block doorways.
Larry Bird @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't understand why those of you who are content with current games are angry about those of us calling for innovation. Practilly every single title that has been announced for XBOX360 and PS3 is a sequel or rehash. I see nothing new on the horizon. So you're covered, right? There is no threat to you. The styles of games you love are guaranteed to be around for a long time, so why be so determined to shoot down those of us who seek new experiences?
I am definately one of those who is starving for innovation. I've been playing videogames since 1985, but because of the stagnant, uninspired state of the industry lately, I have no desire to anymore. Nintendo has me excited, but I'm still going to have to see the Revolution games before I'm sold. If it just ends up being a new control interface for existing genres, that will suck ass.
Anyway, I just have a problem understanding why people feel so threatened by a call for change when the styles of games they love to play make up by far the majority of the current generation, and from the looks of it the next generation, too. You're safe guys, chill out.
ArrestedDevelopment @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I think what's really getting people annoyed is that these 'critical reviews' (ie not glowing), can be interpreted as someone pissing on their console-to-be's launch.
They're all excited and they don't want someone telling them, "meh... the game's ok. It's basically any Xbox game but they've added normal mapping, higher-res textures, and a lot more polys."
They want to be told something else...
mirobin @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
People are pissed off because all these people complaining about the lack of 'innovation' in next-gen games come to the conclusion (or somehow imply) that the game is not a next-gen game and is a rehash of something that already exists. Implications are that the system isn't 'capable' of running an 'innovative' game -- ala the xbox1.5 and related trollish comments.
A next-gen platform isn't going to make a game developer magically more innovative. You don't need a next-gen system to create a new gaming genre. It allows them to do things they couldn't do before, sure, but you don't need a next-gen system to implement new core gameplay ideas.
Next-gen consoles also don't throw a magical switch which makes really hard ideas easy to implement. It helps remove a few constraints that make ideas really hard -- processing power, graphics ability, and memory -- but you still have to deal with the actual problem of implementing the idea, which is still a hard problem.
All the people waiting to complain about the lack of innovation in games until next-gen waited too long. They should have been screaming for it during this generation. To the people asking why we are willing to accept the same-ol 'concepts' for next-gen that we do for this gen, I ask why are you willing to accept the same-ol 'concepts' for this gen but demand new concepts for next-gen?
T.Goodchild, 31 M @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Very Nice Report about this "Condemned" Game, James Ransom-Wiley. Can`t wait, till iam the condemned one... STOP! ;)
Greetings from Germany
mike @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
One point all this stuff about innovation, lets just hope that ALL NEXT GEN SYSTEMS are judged in the same way, and not 'the graphic own'
Joe.D @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I don't know what all that innovation talk is about, certainly judging the innovation of a few launch games (based on personal opinion) to make up an opinion on a next-gen system is quite narrow minded.
If that held any water then GTA Vice City didn't quite innovate over GTA 3, and San Andreas didn't quite innovate over Vice City.
Yet there's no way I can play Vice City after playing San Andreas (and the same for Halo).
The Xbox 360 is a next-gen system, period. Debating that fact based on a few games preview is plain silly and unprofessional.
Alan_Grey @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I have a simple solution for the lack of inovation. I simply do not like any but the most amazing games that are released. I'm hyper critical of any little flaws. Though this comes naturally to me, I find it means there are few enough games around that are good enough for me to play that I don't get bored.
Hatchet @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I dont want to find keys to open doors (Resident Evil) I dont want to turn around because a door is locked(any fps) And I dont want to be turned around by the couch or any other obstruction blocking the hallway or alleyway in the game.
What I want to do is Blow all that shit up or shoot the damn doors in and continue on instead of searching for hours on end to find some damn object (key card or pin) that will make me the master of unlocking that lets me past.
Create Life-like situations that can be bypassed by life-like solutions. If I chuck a grenade at a door I'm supposed to be able to get through It should damn well explode.
For the Doors Im not supposed to get through dont make them or they had better be made out of Titanium or some damn blastproof material.
It atleast makes the game realistic imo.
Tronsta @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
I totally agree, developers need to take more risks. My pet peeve with some game series, like Dynasty Warriors for example, is that they are putting these games out with little to no new features, but rather, they play on the hope that gamers are idiots and will just continue to by a game that has a familiar title to it.
My favorite illusion of depth is now when there is a door or some other kind of obstraction but you can SEE through it and see a little room or another corridor or the like that you can't get to. It's like painting a small room white, hoping to make it look bigger than it really is.
O RLY @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
In terms of innovation, let us compare the video game industry with other entertainment industries.
Movies still have the same genres as they did years ago. Love story, adventure, action, horror, etc. There has been NO "innovation" there. Sure, the graphics (special efx) has improved and camera angles too. The sound is better and we have color rather than black and white. But genres have not changed.
Books. You can't even say they've innovated in any aspect really.
Music. Instruments are the same. Method of delivery has changed (tape to CD) but a hip hop track still has beats, etc.
I could go on and write a huge thesis but you get the idea. Stop bitching about "innovation" when it is clearly there. Innovation comes by in small steps at different areas. The improvement in graphics is evolution/innovation. I haven't seen many (any?) FPS do what condemned is doing.
Unless fleshed out better, the authors arguments aren't too good. Afterall, we should all just buy one hip hop CD, see one Action movie (or any other genre) and buy one book since they offer virtually the same thing just repackaged.
Gerald @ Dec 18th 2005 10:00PM
Whatever happened to the GeoMod technology from Red Faction?
In terms of innovation, it innovated.
However, since then, the idea's been basically abandoned by all FPS.
It'd answer the "locked door" question pretty easily...