Joystiq hands-on: Xbox 360 wrap-up

James - good impressions/previews on the X360 (as I said in your PDZ post).

My thoughts on the upcoming consoles -
all 3 will have some good games, less great games, and a lot of sequels and "filler". Well, maybe not Nintendo; they're more for releasing quality not quantity in their system libraries.

As for the winner - considering the circumstances - ANYONE WHO PLAYS VIDEO GAMES IS A FRICKIN' WINNER...CORRECT? We are long gone from the old days when we only had one system to play games on and we had no choices.

I think we'll see better graphics out of MS/Sony's camps and more innovation and "fun" out of Nintendo's camp. Personally - I'm in Nintendo's camp but once the price(s) are right...I'll buy a 360 or Ps3 depending upon who does what.

...my two cents.

"
It is going to be the secret launch title. No one knows what it will be, but I have a feeling it will be Gears of War.

I only assume it would be GoW because of all of the videos and released info of the game.

Some stupid people say Halo 3."

What is your source on this secret launch title?

I've heard you mention it several times, and I trust your word, so anymore info would be greatly apreciated.

"It's pretty easy to find out usually who the Xbox fanboys are b/c all they talk about is polygon count and how detailed everything looks. The marketing guys, Cliffy B., RARE, etc. all say the same thing when they speak at conferences.

It's obvious that it is a powerful system...the videos are showing that. How about these guys actually try to sell the part that matters...ya know...the GAMEPLAY!!!

It's gonna be expected that the next gen consoles are gonna blow everyone away in the graphics department. The N64 did it, the PS1 did it, the PS2 did it, the Xbox did it, the Gamecube did it, etc. Yet it seems like the only only who knows whats important is Nintendo."

I wasn't meaning this to be taken that graphics are greater then gameplay, just as a counter to all the stupid sony fanboy's who claim PS3 is a real next gen system. Also, I'm betting that the Revolutions graphics won't be much of a step down from the other systems even though it won't be in HD :(

"Does anyone know if ms and sony have limits to there graphic power, i mean what would happen when
on of them would develop something amazing eg game play 4D?
or are there rules and limits?
thanks"

There is absolutly no limit to the power of the PS3, in fact it's more powerful then god himself. And I can totally see the in 4D.....

#49 "Well, maybe not Nintendo; they're more for releasing quality not quantity in their system libraries."

Mario Party 37!

hehe

#51
Mario Party still sells otherwise they wouldn't sell more of them. Same thing applies to another over-done series...Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. Don't get me wrong...I've always loved THPS. But I'm sick of seeing a new one every year. Tons of sequels out there.

What my point was is that Nintendo doesn't let 3rd party companies release garbage on their system. I could care less how many third party developers there are or how many games are in the library - for instance, compare how many $#!tty games have come out for the Ps1 compared to how many equally $#!tty games have come out for the N64. Or substitute Ps2 vs Gamecube. Sony doesn't give a crap who releases a game as long as it adds another "title" to their library. At least 85% of all of the Ps1 titles I saw for sale at Best Buy during the Ps1 heyday were garbage titles.

#52

It was a joke. I know what you meant.

Props to zero2dash for offering an opinion without bashing one of the consoles. However, even though I like Nintendo, I must admit they too will have their filler games just like the other 2(maybe not as many simply because there are fewer crap third parties on board). In all honesty it will probably be mario darts or something that constitutes filler.

Anyway, lets face it people, all 3 consoles are totally sweet. Some have a little more "this" or a little more "that". But "this" isn't necessarily better than "that". Its just different. And depending on whether you like "this" or "that" you may or may not get a certain console. Maybe you sprout wood for polycounts or maybe you jive to teraflops. Maybe you get your groove on for media center apps or love up the innovation. The beauty of it is that there truly is a console for everyone and thats great. Can you Nintedo people imagine if there was nothing after the cube? Or can you Sony peeps imagine if you had to buy an xbox to play video games? Some of us might actually die?

Ok, so this hole fanboy shit is funny for about 2 posts, then..........well, not so much. So lets bring our brains back from their cages and have some intelligent discussion.

Everyone remember something. Pretty much NO ONE ON THIS FORUM HAS PLAYED ANY OF THE FUTURE CONSOLES. SO SHUT UP ABOUT THEM SUCKING, YOU DONT KNOW!

(and if some 13 year old F*(^&nut gets on here claiming to be a developer or game designer who has played them all and knows that the 360/os3/rev is actually shit........bullshit no one believes you!)

Thanks.

Gaming on an 8 foot screen, to me it's all about HD. 720p min res and widescreen aspect ratio by default - that is going to blow current stuff away.

And when SONY does it, I'll buy one of them too. I don't care what the name on the box is, it's all about the bling! that comes out of it.

Arch 360, you try to get all logical all of a sudden? You need a valid argument from Picky Pants when you type things like this?

"i think sonys hype machine has upped everybodys standards by 2000 points.i cant wait to see the dissapointing reaction when that heap of hype comes out."

That's not really a debatable or arguable point, it's only your opinion. "2000 points?" 2000 points of what? Light? 2000 points for killing an alien in Halo? WTF are you talking about? "Something stupid like they did with the Dreamcast?" Please tell us what you're trying to talk about, you're making my eyes bleed.

Or better yet, follow your own advice and "wait a year then make a comparison."

You make it difficult for fans of the 360 to stand on your side of the line...

Also, for the fanfreaks that keep posting the quote about the PS3 not being a game machine - tired. It's tired, guys. We can go dig up quotes about everything, and opinions, and things that have changed since their original aim, and post them all. 4 BILLION lost on XBox and that's fine, but some quote throws you off? If you're worried about games, you got nothing to worry about. Sony made money off of games with the PS2. It's not in the plan to change that. People are working on games for the PS3. It's a game machine. Bringing up that quote isn't going to change the way Sony will put out the PS3 and developers will try to make dope games for it, like what's happening for the 360 right now. It's gonna be OK, take a rest.

Amen, Home Theater Dude...

I was also at the event on tuesday, and Ive been posting my impressions on www.360hacker.net - I still have a few more hands-on previews coming soon.

is it just me, or does anyone else feel like the xbox 360 could be the GameCube of the next-gen?

ill trooper, just so your aware, i was telling the one guy y his comment was illogical. I wasn't saying it for the hell of it.

And aparently your wrong. ITs NOT a game machine -k, if you say it is, im glad you know more then Ken Kutugari himself. your pretty impressive if you do.

Now that we have it all cleared up...im out.

"It's pretty easy to find out usually who the Xbox fanboys are b/c all they talk about is polygon count and how detailed everything looks. The marketing guys, Cliffy B., RARE, etc. all say the same thing when they speak at conferences."

i'm sorry because this is kind of picky, but.. Cliff Bleszinski is not a a "marketing guy", he's a talented game-developer who happens to be passionate about his craft and his current projects.

(and before any assholes label me as an Xbox fanboy for defending Cliffy B, i'm rooting for the PS3.. even though i'm buying all 3 consoles).

I know Cliffy B. is a developer and I'm actually a fan of his. But what I was talking about was in all the demos for the X360 all they point out is how beautiful the graphics are, or how beautiful partical effect is, etc. That kind of stuff is expected...it is NEXT GEN...what people wanna know and see is if that new technology will increase the quality of the gameplay.

who gives a fuck, as long as the load times are short, ill be good, im getting both 360 n ps3 and could care less about favorites...as long as i dont have to wait 5 minutes for a race to load, like in dub editon for the psp im good.

"And aparently your wrong. ITs NOT a game machine -k, if you say it is, im glad you know more then Ken Kutugari himself. your pretty impressive if you do."

Heh heh. OK guy. Well, I guess in your eyes, I'm impressive - did you see how they're working on GAMES for it?

So, how many of you are gonna stand by that weird quote? Or are you going to accept the facts that games are something the PS3 can probably handle?

Remember how you kept referring to that quote when the machine ships. I'm willing to bet it will have 'games' as something that accompanies the launch. Personally, I'm down for whatever - I love GAMES, not companies. Like many on this site, I'll be buying all three new systems.

by ill trooper

We can go dig up quotes about everything, and opinions, and things that have changed since their original aim, and post them all. 4 BILLION lost on XBox and that's fine, but some quote throws you off? If you're worried about games, you got nothing to worry about. Sony made money off of games with the PS2. It's not in the plan to change that. People are working on games for the PS3.

It's a game machine.


Not according to SONY'S Ken Kutaragi it isn't.
And I would not say it was an OPINION seeing that it came straight from him.
And as for the Games, sure they are making them, but not near as many publishers are onboard this time around. Makes you wonder why so many top developers are joining Microsoft this time. Sony and Microsoft will both have great machines, but with Kutaragi's comments it makes you wonder whats up.

Wonder what's up?

I read it as Sony trying to build the PS3 as "beyond" a gaming machine... If you people refuse to see that as their attempt at positive marketing angle that ALSO allows for, but does not limit it only to GAMING, I'm not going to be able to change your mind with these posts, no matter how much I type.

Why do the PS3 haters refuse to catogorize this Kutaragi quote with the 'Sony Hype' term I see thown about on this site so much?

Because it wouldn't be 'negative' against the PS3, that's why.

If you want to mention how Sony doesn't deliver on what they say, then let's paint the WHOLE barn: Promises of an 'Emotion Engine' unfulfilled? Well, then I don't believe him when he says 'It's not a gaming machine' either.

You've been spotted out, haters. Like I said, I'm probably not going to be able to change your mind, I can only point out how one-sided and poorly thought-out so many of the anti-PS3 comments here are. Seeing every little thing about the PS3 as negative ("Snake is OLD! That is teh suxxor! Who wants to play as an OLD DUDE?! Master Chief RULES!), but considering similar attributes about the 360 ("Kamino is a FLOWER! That RULES!") as inconseqential.

No router in the PS3? "I knew the router was hype! Sony fails! Not a game machine!"
...But if Microsoft supports HD-DVD but can't seem to be bothered to put a drive in their flagship hardware product? "It's gonna be upgradable in the future to an HD-DVD drive, it's a smarter move, it's too early to commit to that format"

I'll have to accept it I suppose. I'm working on it, bear with me - I would love it if this site's comments actually cared about the potential of these machines more than the hating because of a company.

But I digress! Typing about that Kutaragi quote all day will NOT change that it's a "PlayStation," and that name means entertainment software to more people (sales-wise, at any rate) than 'XBox,' which is perceived as too hardcore and niche for the majority. ( I personally am not threatend by that, but who on this site is?) 2002: "XBOX... It's greeeeen and it's extreeeeeeme, like Mountain Dew, Bro!" 2005: Microsoft has high investment in changing that perception of the 360:

http://xbox360.joystiq.com/entry/1234000867063193/

http://xbox360.joystiq.com/entry/1234000503062792/

So I guess everyone is taking new approaches to redefining the image of their system. The 360 is _also_ geting a mild make-over to make it more appealing to adults it seems.

No one mad about that though?

I'm not a 360 hater, nor do I think the PS3 will be THAT much better, but why get hung up on that quote like you guys do? I mean, Jobs acted like video was not a priority on the iPod and then he introduces it this week. MAYBE these companies don't tell us everything as early as we think they are.

Hey guys I had a xbox and now Ps2 slimline,they are both great,and so will the nxt gen.But the xbox is and will be always chunky.i c ps3 second
gen, and that puts a smile on my face ;-)
Ps: a big one.

lol PS3 is going to win assholes. you stupik fuks. your best game is a racing game with fuked up handling

@ 68:
"lol PS3 is going to win assholes. you stupik fuks. your best game is a racing game with fuked up handling"

Haha.. this is something new.. "PS3 is going to win assholes". Oh now Ken Kutaragi's comments about PS3 not being a gaming machine makes sense. PS3 is 'teh analsex machine' !! Hurray for the pervs !! All of a sudden the controller design for the PS3 makes much more sense. "PS3 is going to win assholes". True dat.

PS3's best game is also going to be a "fvcked up racing game with no AI, damage, and online". Hurray for the love-machine !!!

lol saycheese....hahaha

ill trooper, first of all if you claim to not be a fanboy, why do you talk of trying to "change peoples mind". Why are you trying to convert others to the ps3? it doesn't make any sense and you contradicted yourself.

I love Playstation, i love xbox. I hate Ken Kutugari. Plain as that. So don't git offended when i say something funny about your (oh wait, you claim not to be a fanby) beloved leader.

And even if you have your head up Ken's ass, you have to admit he says some stupid ass shit.

I have seen wondrous things and thy name is "NEW" PS3 Controller!! It is more evolved than that silver boomerang, but not as cutting edge as the revolution. It is what the evolution of the controller should be. WAIT AND SEE!!

PS Don’t ask me to disclose unless you are willing to serve Jail time for me or pay the inevitable law suit that would surely follow!

In my opinion, XBox 360 is as next-gen as it gets when it comes to gaming, graphics and/or innovation (at least it will be until PS3 comes along)

I agree with "home theater dude". The next-gen about the graphics doesen't stop with the poly count and pixel pushing capabilities. It's more of why we actually need this capabilities. The graphics on the XBox look fab, but try the playing it on a 55" HD screen. The XBox 360, on the other hand, will support 720p with 4x Antialiasing for all games. Apparently, that is a certification requirement for any game made for the XBox 360. When you are enjoying this high resolution mode on your 50+ inch HD TV, lower poly counts, etc will easily start to show through, because the models would be blown up huge on a screen that has a lot more resolution to show the polygon boundaries. So if there is an argument as to whether the graphics on the 360 are next gen or not, I would say "Yes!! They are". The extra polygons, etc make my gaming experience on big screen HDs a lot better than the previous generation. This is not to say that PS3 can't match up. I'm sure the PS3 also has a very powerful graphics chip capable of doing high resolution HD with high poly counts, etc. We just have to wait and see if SONY is going to deliver on the promised experiences shown. If they do, that would be absolutely fantastic. Regardless, the PS3 will also be a next-gen machine in graphics as much as the XBox 360 if not better.

Regarding gaming innovation, the next-gen innovation is what the game developers decide to show. In my opinion, XBox 360 folks have done as much as they can to innovate. It is clearly reflected by developers being able to harness XBox Live features that allow them to do spectator modes for games (like Gotham TV), etc. So far Microsoft have done a fabulous job in innovating the online gaming experience and I believe will be taking the same to the next level with XBox 360. How game developers use these innovative capabilities is another story. The question you have to ask is "Could all the cool new gameplay features like Gotham TV, etc have been done on XBox?". If the answer is NO, then it is clear that the XBox 360 is next gen in the gameplay area because it allows something that the previous generation could not. My only hope is that we see other developers pick up on these features as well. I don't want to sound like a XBox 360 fanboy here, but I don't see this kind of innovation in the online gaming space from SONY. For the sake of us gamers, I do hope SONY has something equal to offer. That way, game developers will not have to bother about supporting all these innovations for one platform alone.

Finally, regarding the lack of the super-duper must have console defining title like Halo, I am going to believe the 2 things that Microsoft have been saying...
- Halo 3 isn't ready and will take time. Regardless, a Halo 3 release later is more beficial as it can reinvigorate sales of the platform when really required. There is enough hype for the 360 launch that Halo 3 is not going to drastically change the numbers. As is they are going to sell out. However, on a side note, I do think Microsoft wishes Halo 3 will be ready on time for the US launch for PS3. Even though they have said that Halo 3 will launch when ready, they know it's one of the best weapons in their arsenal against the PS3 launch.
- Launching with a must-have title will likely eat into the sales of other launch titles easily and that can be discouraging for 3rd party game developers to make a title that will be released during the launch timeframe. With the absence of such a title, the developers have more incentive to make their titles for the launch timeframe. As a result we are going to see possibly the best launch lineup ever.

"lol PS3 is going to win assholes. you stupik fuks. your best game is a racing game with fuked up handling"

dude, i love my PS2 as much as the next guy.. but please don't make us look like dumbasses.

why doesnt the xbox come with a wireless setup? why do i have to spend extra money to get an adapter to play xbox live...the thing that they are really pushing with this system...the ps3 comes ready to connect to a network, correct? just making sure. im getting both but if i dont need an adapter for the ps3, ill get a cheap one but if they both require an adapter, ill get the new linksys usb adapter with the wifi finder and display

Why doesnt the xbox come with a wireless setup? Because it costs extra money and they're trying to keep the costs down. An 802.11a/b/g wireless adapter isn't a $2 part.

Think about this... 2 years later when hd-dvd or blue-ray takes over.. and u just bought a hd-tv...
where r u gonna stick it in ur 180?
every generation the game space increase around 10 folds..xbox 180 should have at least 30 gig not 9....even temco is compalining and its only first gen games...
graphics.. both console will be pretty even or the ps3 will be better... the only reason xbox graphics are better than the ps2 is bc it was release later.. more than a year...well the ps3 has that advantage right now....

live? i give the 180 this one...

games? depends if u like rpg or fps.. jap or western games..most games will be on both anywayz...

easy to developed... apparently 360 is better.. and the ps is a nightmare..however it never stop the ps2.. the best looking games on the market is mostly ps2..god of war, snake eater (ign survey)....

as for hype... ps2 did have toy story graphics..look at god of war or snake-eater..even better...

backwards compatibility..i have to say that ms did a half ass job on this one.. wat about all those ppl who want to play halo 2, and they cant cause they have a core system?bloody cheat

cost? lets say the ps3 cost $600.. (i doubt it)
next gen dvd player, networkadapter, i can give my friend a ps2 cause the i dont need it anymore to play ps2 games. an extra 200 is worth it..the blue ray alone is worth more...

right now.. the only game on the 180 that i look forward to is Oblivion.. but thats on the pc..doA sounds disappoating.. a rather have teken or soul C. all others except for PDZ and gears of war should be on either pc or other console...

Next gen? why would a next gen console cant play next gen dvd on my HD tv?? nuff said...

and for ppl who said why sony havn't release any playable games.. i say get a life... its releasing next year not next month..idiot...

@76 (Alx)

It's interesting that you try so hard to justify the glory that will be PS3 and through it all comes out your fanboy colors :) I particulary find the choice of using 180 very intriguing.

Here's some comments to what you had to say...

"Think about this... 2 years later when hd-dvd or blue-ray takes over.. and u just bought a hd-tv... where r u gonna stick it in ur 180?"

Well, when that happens, you buy an HD-DVD/BluRay player that is designed for playing HD-DVD/BluRay. During this generation, the only use of PS2 as a DVD player was in Japan soon after it's release. That was because PS2 was released over there when DVD players were super expensive. We are talking about next-gen game consoles, not DVD players. If you are really interested in playing media, XBox has enough streaming and mp3 player compatibiliy to keep it going.

"every generation the game space increase around 10 folds..xbox 180 should have at least 30 gig not 9....even temco is compalining and its only first gen games..."
This I will agree upon. Seems like Microsoft were at a disadvantage here. Their early time to market puts them in a bad spot that they can't adopt any of the next-generation media formats.

"easy to developed... apparently 360 is better.. and the ps is a nightmare..however it never stop the ps2.. the best looking games on the market is mostly ps2..god of war, snake eater (ign survey)...."
Which games are better, is a matter of opinion, it seems. I could argue that Chaos Theory is possibly the best looking console game as well. If you don't want to compare apples to oranges, try looking at the same game released on both platforms and you are likely to find a lot of them that look better on the XBox.

"backwards compatibility..i have to say that ms did a half ass job on this one.. wat about all those ppl who want to play halo 2, and they cant cause they have a core system?bloody cheat"
Even though a lot of people make a lot of noise on this one, I think this matters only for the first year and that too if you desparately want to put away your XBox. I'm going to put my 360 right on top of my XBox for the time being.

"cost? lets say the ps3 cost $600.. (i doubt it)
next gen dvd player, networkadapter, i can give my friend a ps2 cause the i dont need it anymore to play ps2 games. an extra 200 is worth it..the blue ray alone is worth more..."
Woah, first I don't think it is going to cost that much. Kutaragi San is not that stupid. Even if it did cost that much, I'd really be intrested in seeing how many people shell out 600 bucks just for the hardware.

"and for ppl who said why sony havn't release any playable games.. i say get a life... its releasing next year not next month..idiot..."
Interestingly, it was Ken Kutaragi who dared that SONY would show "playable" game demos in TG05 this year. The fact that SONY had to go back on that promise says a lot about the progress SONY is making with PS3.

I work in the game industry and have enough contacts in various game development studios. I can't divulge any information, but will say this. I totally know and understand what J Allard meant when he said.. "If I was SONY, I would be nervous". With all the information I have, I know he is dead on the money.

Wait, Picky Pants, Super Mario RPG wasn't a graphics focused game? So why did they use 3D rendered character models, rendered backgrounds and such? Super Mario RPG was one of the best looking games of the entire generation. Its one of my favorite games of all time and was one of the best looking games for any of the SNES/Genesis era systems. It's like saying the Donkey Kong Country series didn't make strides in graphics.

BlackYoshi:

Don't forget Killer Instinct for SNES!

Shamster, I don't mean to be offensive, but do you know what a blowhard is? I hate it when someone says "I work in the industry" because they can never back it up, but even if you do, congratulations, nobody cares, it's not like it will make your opinion stronger, but it will surely get you a lot of unfounded respect.

"Even though a lot of people make a lot of noise on this one, I think this matters only for the first year and that too if you desparately want to put away your XBox. I'm going to put my 360 right on top of my XBox for the time being."

That's just you pal, I don't have an Xbox and I want to play all the games I missed, same as ALL the PS2 and Gamecube users, too bad it's only "backwards compatible... sort of". By the way, I still play all the final fantasy games for my PS1, and I'm sure there are a ton that have played even more than I have.

“Well, when that happens, you buy an HD-DVD/Blu-ray player that is designed for playing HD-DVD/Blu-ray. During this generation, the only use of PS2 as a DVD player was in Japan soon after its release. That was because PS2 was released over there when DVD players were super expensive. We are talking about next-gen game consoles, not DVD players. If you are really interested in playing media, XBox has enough streaming and mp3 player compatibility to keep it going."

Only tech geeks stream their BS to an Xbox. The only reason why I'd like to Stream my MP3's is in case that a game has shitty soundtracks. But why does MSFT brag about Hi Definition when they don't have a Next-gen drive? I rather do it all directly than having to “stream it”.

"you buy an HD-DVD/BluRay player that is designed for playing HD-DVD/BluRay."

Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Silicon Valley, I guess we all want to spend (Read: Waste) on a 360, and realize we can't play hi def movies on a "hi def... sort of" player so we can shell out (read: waste) even more money on an HD-DVD/Blu-ray system that costs EVEN MORE than a PS3 and can do much less than a PS3.

At least the PS3 will be able to hold huge hard-drives so I can install my PS1 and PS2 games, some movies, some PS3 games, and if anyone was wise enough, I’ll be able to use my MP3s in case of the shitty game music. Unless of course you make for us great music, but I doubt it if you're not Nobuo Uematsu, Mr. Developer.

I mean, I don’t get it, why don’t these companies do what Mac did with peoples CDs, but also with DVDs, Blu-rays, and games? That way I don’t even have to wait for loading times. At least Nintendo has never had loading times longer than 2 seconds. It’s costly? Well, “Take care of the customer and the business will take care of itself”. The PSP is a piece of shit because even when it CAN play MP3’s and movies, you have to get a hard-drive which is even costlier than 360’s hard drive for a fifth of the space, let alone the fact that 360’s hard drive is very expensive (100 dollars for 20 gigs? Damn).

“I can't divulge any information, but will say this. I totally know and understand what J Allard meant when he said.. "If I was SONY, I would be nervous".”

I must agree with Allard on this one. Sony should take off the Wireless router (or have they?) to make the console cheaper and offer it as an optional part of the console, and focus on making the console easier to program for (i.e. correcting that GPU architecture to make it more efficient and exploit its power), so it can blow our minds since the beginning and keep the 3rd party support, because as I’ve heard, the RSX hasn’t even started to be produced yet. That’s what I would do if I was Sony. Oh, and of course, do something better than LIVE, but for free, just like Nintendo is doing.

The only reason 360 is winning the PR war is hype, which is what Sony should worry about. I seriously can’t believe how gullible the world is considering they have all eaten the 360 BS about being a center for socialization. Each day it has become more difficult to play on multiplayer mode unless it is online (at least for what I remember, I used to play multiplayer a lot in the 16/32 bit era, as opposed to now), and most people play to “disconnect” themselves, not to socialize. If I want to socialize, I’d rather go to a gym, a club, a shopping mall, anywhere, instead of having a 360; like anyone gives a shit. What’s next, Paris Hilton playing 360? That would be hilarious.

b

That is pretty much a retarded post. Everything in there. MS doesn't know who is going to win the format war, so their playing it safe. Nintendo is doing the same thing, but i have yet to hear ONE NEGATIVE RESPONSE about that. You love nintendo as you said in a previous post, so if MS is doing the EXACT SAME THING with their drive, y you dissin on the 360 (while its cool for the rev)?

I am happy with a DVD drive, lower costs. IT might be nice for other things, but if i want a hd-dvd/bluray player, ill buy one, not use the 360/ps3.

My question is are u buying a 360? If not (like you've said before) Then you have no place to argue that you would like to play xbox1 games on the 360. Its plain stupid, because if you wanted to play them like you are claiming, you would have an xbox rite now wouldn't you?

And once again (you being the Nintendo lover you are), Nintendo has never once had a backwards compatable console (untill now, with the purchase of an adapter), and thats ok for big N, but not MS?

Ppls logic just doesn't make any sense to me. You say one thing is ok for your company, but the worst thing for another.

And i didn't know MS bragged about HD...news to me! All I've ever heard them say is its really cool, just like Sony. (Which by the way Nintendo doesn't even have High Def Support)

lol, your one contradicting, yet halarious kid. Everything you just described as downfalls of the 360 (even though there really not that big of deals), your Nintendo has the same.

Sony's Playstation, Microsoft's Xbox & Nintendo's Revolution. I don't believe Playstation 3, will be anything. I wasn't surprised in Playstation 2, compared to Playstation One. Considering, they were what, 6 or so years apart? They did that on purpose, simply so that Playstation 2 would get all hyped, and they'd sell like mad. Which, sadly they did. It's sad to see the Playstation fans automatically assuming that Xbox, and Revolution are going to fail simply because they're ignorant to the world of Gaming. I realize, and understand Playstation has some great games, Socom I, 2 & 3. Final Fantasy (as much as I dislike these games, they're cool for what they are) Grand Theft Auto, and various others.

Some say the Xbox only has Halo 2, but they're wrong. We now have Far Cry, Halo 2, DOOM 3, and various others. Nintendo has an AWESOME series, the Mario epidemic. I love Mario, and the orginal Mario for Super Nintendo, literally is one of the greatest games ever created. It was back when things were just fun, not filled with all this graphic hype, it was mainly made to be fun.


Anyway, enough discussing the past. I see the Xbox 360, and I'm happy. Not because it's Microsoft, and not becuase it's Xbox, but because it's a new step in Gaming. You see, the way I look at is, I look for fun games that I can enjoy Online, with Friends and by my lonesome. I'm not hyped on all this "omfgz0rZ!!!1 it'z 1337 graphiX!" type stuff that everyone seems to get orgasms over, granted they are pretty stunning, but not my main focus. I enjoy the features brought by the Xbox, compared to PS2, and Nintendo hasn't touched the Online world but once in GameCube, if I am correct.

Anyway, I think Nintendo has potential, I think Sony is a bunch of idiots who wish to spend way to much money on their console, and sell it for way to much. I think Microsoft will win this way, and I am getting each of the systems regardless.

"Why doesnt the xbox come with a wireless setup? Because it costs extra money and they're trying to keep the costs down. An 802.11a/b/g wireless adapter isn't a $2 part."

Yea but it also is NOT a $100 part either...a PCMCIA notebook card is around $20-30 and the same for PCI wifi cards. Hell USB wifi adapters are normally around $20. So why in the hell is MS sellin the X360 one for $100?

"And once again (you being the Nintendo lover you are), Nintendo has never once had a backwards compatable console (untill now, with the purchase of an adapter), and thats ok for big N, but not MS?"

Ok...so you don't hurt yourself with this one, I'll help you figure it out. Nintendo hasn't had a backwards compatible console b/c it was very hard to effectively let people play NES games on a SNES or NES/SNES games on a N64...and it is obvious why those games wouldn't work on the Cube.

The Revolution will play Gamecube games OUT OF THE BOX with NO ADAPTER!!! The only adapter you would need to by (according to the limited information that is known so far) is to play DVD movies. For the X360 on the other hand you HAVE TO buy a $100 component in order to play older Xbox games. $100 for a 20GB hard drive...a drive that is most likely a notebook drive. An OEM 20GB notebook drive is around $40-45.

"DOOM 3"...that game was so over rated its not even funny. Hell that game was one giant FUGLY tech demo for an engine that only a couple developers are using. ID failed this time...Epic is woopin thier ass...especially when they make modding their games so easy.

Jago,

I respect you 100% on this website and enjoy reading your posts,but there's 2 things that I have to comment on.

You said "The only adapter you would need to by (according to the limited information that is known so far) is to play DVD movies."

Why is this "no big concern" now but when the Xbox came out people were going for Microsoft's throats like savage animals when you had to buy the DVD kit?

And "For the X360 on the other hand you HAVE TO buy a $100 component in order to play older Xbox games. $100 for a 20GB hard drive...a drive that is most likely a notebook drive."

I thought I read somewhere that you actually didnt need the harddrive to play old games. It might have been just a speculation article or something but I do remember seeing something about it.Maybe it just went unnoticed.

Also,about the DoomIII comment,that's just what you think. I can't stand the Metal Gear Solid series but I still give credit for it being a big game franchise for the Playstation just as DoomIII should for the Xbox.

Jago-

I know your going to say who cares, but just so you know the Hard Drive in the 360 is a lot higer quality than a regualar Hard drive.

Also you make it sound like few people will have the hard drive. Almost everyone will have it. If you were a hardcore gamer and not simply a fanboy, you would be buying a 360 with a hard drive also.

Also stop trying to justify everything Nintendo does.

"Nintendo hasn't had a backwards compatible console b/c it was very hard to effectively let people play NES games on a SNES or NES/SNES games on a N64...and it is obvious why those games wouldn't work on the Cube."

That sounds like a personal problem to me. They purposfully change the form of games of each generation. THEY MEAN TO DO THIS. MS really has no choice because they are switching from Nvidia to ATI.

First things first: Anyone who dismisses another's opinion by calling them a 'fanboy' is a fanboy themselves. Plain and simple.

Another thing, HD-DVD is dead before it's gotten out of the gate. Toshiba is pretty much the only one left who is supporting it. And for you people who say 'DVD is good enough for now', that may be true for 'right now' but not in a year or two. For developers to deliver truly 'next-generation' games, they're going to need more and more disc space, more than DVD can deliver. No matter which side of the fence you sit on, you have to at least applaud Sony for planning for the future.

Jago

Dude you make me laugh.

"Nintendo hasn't had a backwards compatible console b/c it was very hard to effectively let people play NES games on a SNES or NES/SNES games on a N64...and it is obvious why those games wouldn't work on the Cube."

Well shit, its really hard for my to play my VHS in my DVD player. I just can't cram all of the VHS crap in there.

HAHA

Maven

Sony isn't planning for the future. (oh well i guess they are in a sense). They're planning on trying to make their format the dominate one.

I don't really care what people say about HD drives. I am happy the 360 and Rev won't be implementing them-lower cost, and they are playing it safe (they don't know which will win).

The Bluray for the PS3 won't make me want a ps3 anymore, if not less b/c it increases the cost.

To quote the article,
"The Xbox 360 is not going to blow your mind."

I think anyone who's been following the hardware and software developments of the 360 won't really be too suprised by this. But, as the article points out, in a year or two things will probably be different. That's what I'm looking forward to.

As for the PS3, which seems to come up a lot here, I think that there's a better chance of it launching as a truly impressive package. The possibly better hardware and the better developers certainly make this more likely. But only time will tell...

wtf are you babbling about maven? no hd in x360 and rev means lower cost? do you even know the price of a revolution? sorry, you don't. the x360 retard pack doesn't come with an hd, but the premium pack does. $100 more but you get a lot of other stuff with that $100. why should bluray in the ps3 make you want it more? who said it would? also, i doubt it increases the cost of the machine. does dvd make you want an xbox more? i'm sure it doesn't. there are idiot fanboys from all sides. you guys try to make it sound like only playstation fanboys are that way. sorry, but it's not. a fanboy is a fanboy no matter what they are rooting for. like i've never heard "everything for ps3 is prerendered. it's fake. it's hype. sony is all hype. blah blah blah. i'm gonna keep quoting kutaragi even if it doesn't mean anything." at least they've shown us something. wtf has nintendo shown us besides the console and controller? ideas on how to play games in a new way? wow! the rev controller is definitely interesting, but where are the games? who cares, let's just bash sony.

Jay

You doubt the Bluray increases the price?

Are you joking me? I think your serious, but it must be the most idotic thing i have ever heard! yeah, thats rite, you keep thinking that

Now im not sure at the point your getting at, but i heard alot of fanboy accusations in ur post, so im assuming you are one too eh?

And i was talking to Maven, who was making it sound like the Bluray drive is a deciding factor

HAHA, no price increase for a Bluray drive...Right

Sigh. I knew this would degenerate into a console flamewar...

@81 (b)

"Shamster, I don't mean to be offensive, but do you know what a blowhard is? I hate it when someone says "I work in the industry" because they can never back it up, but even if you do, congratulations, nobody cares, it's not like it will make your opinion stronger, but it will surely get you a lot of unfounded respect."
Fine!! Sorry if I was looking for more respect. So much for sharing an insight.

"That's just you pal, I don't have an Xbox and I want to play all the games I missed, same as ALL the PS2 and Gamecube users, too bad it's only "backwards compatible... sort of". By the way, I still play all the final fantasy games for my PS1, and I'm sure there are a ton that have played even more than I have."
I was referring to general console usage patterns in the market. If there are a lot of people like you, then I'm wrong and you do have a good point.

"Only tech geeks stream their BS to an Xbox. The only reason why I'd like to Stream my MP3's is in case that a game has shitty soundtracks. But why does MSFT brag about Hi Definition when they don't have a Next-gen drive? I rather do it all directly than having to “stream it”."

Let's put the streaming and media on the side. For a lot of gamers, it's the icing on the cake. When MS say 360 is a high-def console, what they mean is that the games are high-def. Some people might point out that the XBox was capable of high-def output as well. Yes, it was capable of outputting high-def signals, but it did not have the horsepower to do high-def resolutions. Just so that I don't sound like I'm blowing smoke here, I'm going to get technical here...

Ever tried playing XBox games on 480p on your 55" HD TV? The first thing you will notice is the crappy aliasing artifacts. This is true of most games, even Halo. Most games on the XBox render to a 640x480 buffer. When playing on SD, this is antialiased down to 320x200. Furthermore, in SD the signal is analog, meaning that the beam sweeps across the CRT smoothly from pixel to pixel. i.e. You get horizontal anti-aliasing for free. For HD output, the same games are rendered to 860x480 resolution and that alone eats up enough pixel shader power that there is none left for the anti-aliasing on the XBox. As a result, you end up seeing a lot more jaggies on the HD resolution. It's sad, but XBox games look better on smaller SD TVs.

So now, how does the 360 differ on this aspect? To begin with, it has enough horsepower (in the pixel pushing department) to do 1280x720 and a 4xantialiasing on the picture at that resolution. Actually the anti-aliasing is a freebie because of the embedded EDRAM sitting in the GPU (ATI's unique 360 design). Once you start displaying your game in such high resolutions on huge screens, all of a sudden you end up with a lot more crispness and detail. This in effect can magnify and point out all the subtle optimizations for 3D models like polygon count, etc. Basically at this resolution, a game will need to render model's with higher polygon count to look better. The 360 again has the horsepower (this time in the polygon pushing department) to handle that.

To sum it up, 360 has the horsepower to output HD resolution games and that is what makes it an HD gaming console.

Now, this is not to say that PS3 is not an HD console. I'm sure when it comes out, it will also be an HD console capable of doing HD games.

On a side note, the RSX graphics chip is a little different and it will cost to do the antialiasing, but that will not stop developers from doing it. Besides, as time goes on, there will be enough middleware out there that will help tap the power of the SPUs and offload some work from the GPU at least with vertex shading. Interestingly the same applies to the 360. People will figure out more ways to use the 3 CPU cores in similar ways. So the third year and onwards for these machines will truly bring out some of the best looking games.

Also, a lot of people like to point out the differences in the 2 consoles more than the similarities. The fact is that game developers are looking for similarities in the consoles so that they can do common development work and to the benefit of them and us, this is the first time we have 2 consoles that have a very similar architecture. At the heart of the system, you have IBM developed CPUs with multiple cores or SPUs (in the case of PS3). The GPUs are both derivatives of the next generation PC Direct X compliant GPUs (ATI's GPU architecture is unique for the 360, but a lot of the developer usable features are similar).

Enough of the tech talk. You might wonder why I pointed out the "SONY should be nervous" talk, when in actuality there are a lot of common things with PS3 and the 360. Well, simply put, SONY are not as far ahead as they hoped they would be and it will take them time to get things right which includes getting better development tools for the PS3.

@81 (b)...

"Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Silicon Valley, I guess we all want to spend (Read: Waste) on a 360, and realize we can't play hi def movies on a "hi def... sort of" player so we can shell out (read: waste) even more money on an HD-DVD/Blu-ray system that costs EVEN MORE than a PS3 and can do much less than a PS3."

You can buy a DVD player today for 50 bucks or less. When the next-gen DVDs (BluRay or HDDVD) get popular enough, you will have similar cheap (and quality) alternatives.


"At least the PS3 will be able to hold huge hard-drives so I can install my PS1 and PS2 games, some movies, some PS3 games, and if anyone was wise enough, I’ll be able to use my MP3s in case of the shitty game music. Unless of course you make for us great music, but I doubt it if you're not Nobuo Uematsu, Mr. Developer."

Wow, I'm sorry I didn't realize you knew Mr. Kutaragi or had access to information from SONY. So far, I haven't heard any word from SONY about their hard drive plans. As is I heard that SONY is having nightmares with the pricing (with that BluRay drive). The hard drive would be the perfect thing to add to that. Wasn't it Kutaragi who said that you will need to get a second job to buy the PS3? Also, since I don't happen to have access to the kind of info you do, please tell me about SONY's plans to facilitate the transfer of mp3s and movies to this hard drive. Let me guess... through a memory stick.. or maybe, through the wireless network connection. So instead of streaming the media over the network, SONY thinks it's interesting to copy potentially gigs of data over the network. Interesting!!! I also particularly like the idea that SONY is going to allow you to "install" PS1, PS2 and even a few PS3 games to this hard drive. And you are right, I am not Nobuo Uematsu. However, I'll put in a request for "non-shitty" game music to all the audio content directors I know for your sake.


"The only reason 360 is winning the PR war is hype, which is what Sony should worry about."

So SONY haven't been creating any hype? As far as I know, Ken Kutaragi has done an impressive job at it.


"I seriously can’t believe how gullible the world is considering they have all eaten the 360 BS about being a center for socialization. Each day it has become more difficult to play on multiplayer mode unless it is online (at least for what I remember, I used to play multiplayer a lot in the 16/32 bit era, as opposed to now), and most people play to “disconnect” themselves, not to socialize. If I want to socialize, I’d rather go to a gym, a club, a shopping mall, anywhere, instead of having a 360; like anyone gives a shit. What’s next, Paris Hilton playing 360? That would be hilarious."

Man, you do like living in the 80s. As for Paris Hilton, I would not be surprised if she did actually play on Live..

The XBox 360 looks to be a promising venture for Microsoft, even after the release of Revolution and PS3. Being the gamer I have always been, I may eventually own them all as I do the PS2, XBox, and GameCube. I let the games talk for the system. As far as graphics go, they help but the overall gameplay is what draws fans. GTA: San Andreas is not a graphic masterpiece but everyone loves the GTA series. All I'm saying is give the 360 a chance. Don't judge a book by its cover. This is coming from a gamer of the Intellivision era! I've played them all but I don't judge until I experience it myself.

man i dont care what u people say all i want to do is come back from work and just play a video game i dont give a F@# % what i have, I just want to play.................

Christ, people, they're just consoles.
Let me get this out there, I am a Nintendo fanboy, pure and simple. The Revolution will be mine when it is released, because of this fact.
Am I going to bash the other consoles? Hell no, because really, I don't know anything about them. And unless you own the consoles and the games for them (which you do not,) you don't really know anything about them either. You're getting all worked up about something you know little about except from reading news excerpts and press releases. Hell, maybe the Revolution will blow, that is possible, but I'm buying it because I'm a fanboy. But I like to this I have enough sense in my head that I don't go out on a fanwar just because someone thinks the 360 is good, or that the PS3 is worth a purchase.

The best evidence for lack of innovation is that many of the games that will be available for launch on the 360 will also be available on all current generation sysems (King Kong, Gun,Call of Duty 2, etc.). Mind you, the graphics will be better on the 360 (hopefully).It feels like Xbox 1.5. Kind of like Halo 1.5 (sorry I mean Halo 2). Could you imagine if when the playstation 2 was released if half of the games were only more polished versions of games that were also coming out on Nintendo 64 and playstation 1?