Rumor: 40GB and 80GB HD on Xbox 360
by Vladimir Cole 
{ Oct 18th 2005 at 8:30AM }
We've been tipped off that Xbox 360s shown at the Digital Life show this past weekend at the
Jacob Javitz were sportin' 40GB and 80GB hard drives. We can't confirm it with photos or anything, but according to our
observant tipster one Xbox 360 was shown to have 38 GB of space remaining when a Microsoft representative navigated a
"memory" section for a few brief moments.
We wouldn't post this if it didn't make a lot of intuitive sense. It also jives with our theory that the Xbox 360 is a trojan horse for direct-to-consumer broadband delivery of triple-A titles. 40GB drives are just the beginning. Before the Xbox 360 generation is over, there will be multi-terabyte add-on storage options.
Update: This is not to say that the Xbox 360 will ship with anything other than the 20GB drive that has been announced. We confirmed with Microsoft that the console will launch with only the 20GB hard drive initially. This is more about evolution of the console post-launch.
[Thanks, Leomar!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
soco @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
well there's also a video of them running PGR 3 from the harddrive, that they copied there.
they're gonna have different sizes, and i'm sure that we're probably gonna be able to 'install' some games on there, which is why i don't think DVD vs. BluRay will be a huge problem. i just don't think it's going to occur in the beginning. of course, there were several sizes of the original xbox hardrive as well...
Ruari @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
It seems kind of pointless, you couldn't fit much next-gen games on a 40 gb HD. Also storing on a pc HD, lets says 100 gb, is not enough space. And if you can burn DVD copies then that just = piracy heaven etc. :(
vc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Before the Xbox 360 generation is over, there will be multi-terabyte add-on storage options.
Kuyu @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Yep. Allard and Moore have basically said this already. It's an on-demand world. Steam proved that this concept can work for games. Microsoft is going prove that it can be widely accepted.
Throw in the idea of Live accounts and permissions, and suddenly you can download your games at other people's houses. Bye-bye game discs, it was nice knowing you.
"While Sony was trying to build a better Discman, Apple released the iPod."
"While Sony was trying to build a better disc technology, Microsoft released on-demand games."
32_Footsteps @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Given that an 80 GB external drive can be had for $80 retail, a 40 GB internal drive at wholesale production prices will be a drop in the bucket for any console manufacturer.
As for a terabyte of storage... I'd guess that will be affordable to the masses in about two years, but that has no backing to it whatsoever.
Chris @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
What, are you guys in Gamestop's pocket? Why would you jump on the theory that the insidious purpose behind the hard drive, broadband connection and Live Arcade is to eliminate retailers?
The whole setup is for smaller developers. With this we can see the return of garage games. The good old days when games were created in the spare time of a handfull of friends, which broadens the industry overall. Colleges are pumping out thousands of students every quarter with zero job experience and there are virtually no jobs to be had for these newbies.
Expanding publication options, like direct-to-drive content delivery, embedded payment options and maybe even support from Microsoft will open up a lot of possibilities for a lot of people. Skilled people. Not joe schmo pushing Madden 5,000,000 on me.
mike @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
what would really help is if we could use our own mass storage devieces to store stuff on. I already have a spare 80GB hard drive sitting in an external enclosure and would love to get the cheaper version of xbox360 and use my own, much bigger drive, that i already own
vc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Chris: This is absolutely great for smaller developers. 100% agree.
But what the heck do you mean by being in GameStop's pocket? I'd be happy if they disappeared.
Spooky @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Dudes ever think the extra HD cost is used as partial payment for the cheaper online downloads? Maybe the games do cost 60 dollars retail but if you download them they will only be 30 dollars. To make some more revenue (for Microsoft) they charge a little more for the Hard drive. So you have a choice, larger HD for cheaper priced games or none or a lower sized HD for more expensive retail games.
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
1)
Weird, Steam has been bashed by the entire gaming community.
Now, Microsoft does the same thing and everybody loves it.
2)
"multi-terabyte add-on storage options" in that size format is not going to happen.
3)
Even Valve realized that Steam would reach only a fraction of their audience. Hence, they keep working with regular pulishers and retailers.
4)
10% of Xbox owners have Xbox Live.
5)
Broadband access in the US has fallen way behind Japan and Europe. It is still expensive and unreliable.
So, I don't think this is going to happen within the next 2 generations, unless the government decides to make broadband mainstream at an affordable price.
Art Guy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Extra hard drive cost? These aren't standard desktop hard drives. They won't be making ton of profit off the hard drives.
Secondly, there would not be a $30 price difference between a retail and downloadable copy of a game. The price difference might be $5-10, the cost of manufacturing the discs and packaging.
vc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Dralt, good points. Some responses:
1. Steam works MUCH, MUCH better today than it did at launch. New products are always rough around the edges in their first iterations.
2. Who says that add-on drives need to be the same size or shape as the drive available at launch? The form factor is pretty much wide open.
3. Sure. For now the retail channel reigns supreme.
4. More than 10% of Xbox 360 owners will have it. Silver comes free out of the box. I'm betting that Silver will be all that's required to download these titles. 100% of Xbox 360 owners will be able to take advantage of this (less non-broadband users).
5. Just because we're behind doesn't mean that we're still not making major inroads. Better than half of all US Internet users have a high-speed connection at home.
bandit @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
1) Steam was bashed for its online registration requirement. MS plans to offer a CHOICE between completely online and completely offline.
2)Not for a 360 HDD but the idea is ingrained in the "media extender" basically your PC HDD will be your storage bin. In the same methods that yahoo ondemand games uses to prevent piracy
3)Who says MS will not continue to release physical copies of games? They would be stupid not to.
4)10% of xbox owners PAY for live. another 5-10% play online via other means, and another 5-10% cannot play online due to their hacked boxes. A better statistic is what percent of xbox owners have broadband, as the silver service is free ;) and allows you to access the marketplace.
5) broadband is taking over, Verizon FIOS is 15Mb down at $50/month with dsl from verizon staring at $15/month which is cheaper than many dial-up services.
As for state governments making things wirless...
its already happening, maybe you dont read the news... http://www.imakenews.com/innovationphiladelphia/e_article000300850.cfm?x=b3vn5LM,b1NyrLJC
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1126431338238771.xml&coll=2
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/01/MNGG9F16KG1.DTL
Lost_Canadian @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Steam sucks. It's a good idea, just very poorly executed. If Valve didn't make such amazing games no one would want to use it. I bought the CD version of Half-Life 2, and was majorly disappointed that I had to install Steam and deal with all its issues just to play the game.
Even if someone makes a better delivery system, I'd still rather buy a boxed game than download it. What if you get bored with the game and feel like selling it? Or lending it to a friend?
ivan roman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
yea, the microsoft demo by the door had a 360 demo running, the guy doing th edemo was really nice. the HDD showed 38 GB of free space when he selected a save location, although i don't know if he was running PGR3 or Kameo off of discs or the HDD...i can verify that the 360 looked like a production unit and had a larger than 20Gb HDD.
We also got to hold the wireless controller, very nice feeling, here's to the next gen!
Nico @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Of course games will be available online. WELCOME TO LAST YEAR.
Are you people actually just now figuring out that games, movies, music will all be available for online purchase?? Both Sony and microsoft will offer these features. ANY media will be avaiable for purchase and download. The problem of course is that with a 80 gb harddrive you cant really fit that much HD content on it. So youll have to buy a media center pc to keep all your films on it.
Also i cant belive that you blind people are actually cheering this on. Microsoft is releasing a 20 GB(!!!!!!) hdd witch will have to be replaced right away with a bigger one. Microsoft is ripping you of FFS. Why do you think their not releasing a 250++ GB disc right away? Because they want to rip you off on upgrades.
Its mindnumbing listening to you people, YAY microsoft is playing me like a 5 dollar whore! I love you.
Instead try actually imagine what they really could do and then start to demand it. You KNOW Microsoft knows what they really could do but they choose not to do it.
OTAM @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
I am very iffy about this service just because of the fact the games will be stored on the harddrive,i'd rather own a physical copy to take over to my friends and at least show I paid for something.
On the other hand,any service that will fuck Gamestop in the ass for the shitheads they are is supported 100% by me. They make a killing on us. You sell them a game like Resident Evil4 and they give you a 2 dollars and a stick of chewing gum,but then turn around and sell it for $35.
Hey Mr Gamestop,we don't have to make it a secret,i'll pull my pants down and you can fuck me in the ass right here.
bandit @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
you address a number of key issues which Sony and Ms want to address in different ways. One of these key issues is consumer ownership vs company ownership. This can even be seen in the format war of Blu-ray vs HD-DVD. HDDVDs backwards compatibility is much more consumer friendly and support a form of digital rights management which makes tranfers locally, easy witin a certain context. This means you buy the video ONCE and you can play it on a standard DVD player, and HDDVD, a laptop, your 360, and even legally import the video to your media player, cellphone/pda, or video IPOD. Its all the same intellectual property but since you own the property it is free to use where ever and whatever it will play on. The premise behind Sony's Formats, UMD, bluray, and its audio format, are that they will ONLY play on those specific players inorder to prevent piracy which has grown rampant. This encourages consumers to purchase multiple versions of the same intellectual property for essentially the same application, just a different format. Studios obviously favor this as it both protects them from the growing piracy issue and encourages more consumer spending for essentially the same intellectual property. So where do games fit in? The retail market has been progressively making a killing off of 2nd hand games. essentially selling the same game for a $5 mark down when purchasing it back for $15-$20 the profit margin on those is substantially more as the pay no money to the developers manufacturers etc. The then literally own the property in a physical form and can sell it as they please. In essence its almost a legal form of intellectual theft. A way to combact this is a Steam like delivery system. That uses similar DRM to allow multiple copies of the same game. developers would rather you pay them $50 and they allow you 2 licenses for the game to use however you want then purchasing second hand, as they never see a dime of the latter.
To make it simple. MS wants you to give up you tangible "right" to media in exchange for increased freedom in its application and uses. If you want to give a that extra licesed copy to a friend of another system in your house you dont have to buy 2 copies of the same intellectual property. Sonys strategy is to give you tangible ownership where you can buy and sell they property you own as you see fit. However you surrender your right to use as you see fit and are forced to use only in the application originally designed for that format.
both of these examples are at the extreme of whats trying to be acomplished but these are the visions they forsee and its simply two different direction as to where ALL media should go. Ownership vs. Application. which do you choose?
Martez @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
If Sony is offering the same kind of services, I'd go with the PS3 over the 360. I mean, if you really want your crazy all-in-one digital lifestyle/entertainment box/whatever, I'd rather put Linux on a PS3 and use far superior free software than Microsoft's flashy, likely-buggy (it would be MS software, would it not?) bastard child of Dashboard and Media Center. If these companies really want us to put all our music, movies, and games on their box I'd go for the box that lets you pick and choose more reliable, stable, and secure software.
Lefein @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
I find it extremely funny that people are so excited about downloading a game directly off the internet. I find it doubly amusing that any of you feel that developers of any calibur would embrace the idea as well.
Although I have heard some people bemoan Gamestop with little reason, I would like all of you to stop and think about what it would be like to have no hard copy of a game. So far, the 360 does not seem to be able to burn discs. What this means is that if your hard drive goes on the blink, you will be less your game library. Also, this means you can't turn around and sell a game you didnt like. A residual effect would be that there would also be fewer hard copies of a game in circulation and make it difficult to rent or preview a new release.
optical media is here to stay. Consoles will not go off all Jetsons style with the introduction of broadband. Even the VP of Epic Games has gone on record saying that games will take up more than 20GB. Do any of you want to try to download that much information with the understanding that your ISP might blink out during a download that could take a full day?
I'm not so sure MSes hard drives will go over well if they stick to the $5 a Gig pricepoint that they currently hold. They are pulling a ridiculous premium on the hard drives as well as the other peripherals to try to make back on losses from the first Xbox. I'd hate to have shelled out $100 for a hard drive just to turn around and see it has become obosolete within the space of a few months. (It's news like this that keeps dropping from the 360 camp that makes me glad that I can wait until Halo4 to buy a used 360).
Dralt @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Meta-comments...
1)
All right, let's make something clear...imagination reaches farther than reality.
I can imagine myself walking on Mars, but I will die before it's possible.
There are physical/technical limitations that render some of these feats nearly impossible.
2)
I will be extremely surprised if "multi-terabyte add-on storage options" become available during the lifespan of the 360.
You could connect such an array of discs using USB, but that would be slow and cumbersome.
You could stream content from your PC, but it doesn't really work today for HD content. (One must realize that reading HD content from a local disc connected via SATA sometimes leads to stutter/synchronization artifact during playback. So, reading that same content over a network connection is even more problematic. Let's remember 1 HD stream requires about 15 Mbits/sec of bandwidth.)
3)
Xbox Live Silver
I doubt Microsoft will use Silver in this way. It would be far more expensive than pressing discs.
I'm ready to be proven wrong, though.
4)
Broadband adoption is slowing. According to a recent report:
"The survey, published by independent think tank Pew Internet & American Life Project, found that high-speed Internet adoption, after growing quickly in the past several years, has been losing steam and is poised to slow even further. During the first six months of 2005, 53 percent of home Internet users said they use a broadband connection, up from only 50 percent during the previous six months.
This is a much slower growth rate than reported for the same periods a year earlier. From November 2003 to May 2004, high-speed Internet penetration grew by 20 percent, from 35 percent of home users in December 2003 to 42 percent in May 2004, according to the Pew data.
Results of the study will be presented at the Telecommunications Policy Research Conference in Arlington, Va., Sept. 23 to Sept. 25.
Pew attributed the slowdown in broadband penetration to a maturing of the market. Early adopters, who are typically savvy about the Internet, well-educated and well-paid, have already signed up for broadband service."
Also, let's not assume all broadband users will buy a 360 because it won't happen.
Xbox Live adoption is limited by the intersection of several factors: 1) Xbox gamers, 2) Broadband access, 3) Interest in online games.
Again, less than 10% of current Xbox owners use Xbox Live.
5)
Most consumers are still afraid of remote controls. Don't expect consumers to behave as geeks and set up home networks or configure media centers.
6)
It will eventually happen. Not within the next 2 generations, though.
Casper @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
I was at Digital Life this weekend. They were using a devkit - so of course PGR3 was running on the hard drive, just like every other game they have on devkits at shows. As far as the storage size goes, I looked and didn't see what you guys are claiming in this article. It's not impossible, considering that there's 3 USB 2.0 ports on the front - I can see it happening in the future, but don't see it eventually being broadband-only games.
Twist @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
From the J. Allard chat transcript:
"J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..
A: the 20 gb hard drive is a 2.5 inch user servicable drive and is more expense than a pc "crack the box" drive. it's one of the reasons we pushed to create a compelling premium bundle."
Sounds to me like you can replace that 20 gig HDD with any 2.5 inch HDD you want. It will probably only be a few months before a decent 3rd party solution comes out for using standard 3.5 inch drives (and it will probably take less than a week for someone to hack a 3.5 inch hard drive onto their 360). We can hopefully just attach an external HDD through the USB ports for music and video since it supports playing media from mass storage solutions connected this way.
Desiri @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
"Why do you think their not releasing a 250++ GB disc right away? Because they want to rip you off on upgrades."
They are using 2.5" HDDs. The largest capacity drives in this form factor are currently 120GB which cost over $200.
Jeramy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
....yeah nico, that's it. micro"$"oft (yeah, you are really clever to use that dollar sign; i've never seen it before) is just after our hard-earned money. all their implementations are aimed at making us buy extra add-ons and end up shelling out a grand for an xbox 360.
oh, wait a minute, that sounds a lot like the sony during the ps2 era. huh. but, that's probably a lie because i've always been able to play with four players and save on a hard drive on a ps2 right out of the box.
and i know you didn't use a $ but i know you were thinking about it
Chris @ Dec 18th 2005 9:05PM
Vic, the 'in gamespot's pocket' was a jab at multiple authors from this site taking an aggressively negative stance against downloadable content on the Xbox.
Apart from all that, the best part of the HD+broadband+marketplace combo, to me, will be downloading demos of games I'd like to try, and playing them on my xbox, on the screen Im going to be using to play the game if I choose to buy it. Much simpler than a rental :)