PlayStation 3 won't play used games?
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Nov 8th 2005 at 4:45PM }
The latest rumor, generated from several
patent sites, claims that Sony has secured a patent for a disk technology that prevents the use of used, as well as
pirated, software. From the registered
patent description:
"A device and method for protection of legitimate software against used software and counterfeit software in recording media… A specific title code is read, and if this title code has been registered, the main unit shifts to a normal operation. If the code has not been registered, verification software is initiated… If matching does not occur, the disk is processed as illegitimate software… Since only titles for which legitimate software has actually been purchased and which have been initially registered in the machine table can be used, resale (so-called used software purchase) after purchase by an end-user becomes practically impossible."
Does Sony plan to employ this technology in the PlayStation 3? Not likely. If so, PS3 owners would not be able to rent (used) games or borrow their friends' games—or even purchase used games! Sure, the technology could be used for Blu-Ray movies, but for games? It just won't go down like that… right?
[Thanks to everyone that sent this in!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Hawkes @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Hey guys, that link needs to have the #more portion removed to get the full article.
Thanks!
darryl @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"PlayStation 3 wont play used games?"
...
"Does Sony plan to employ this technology in the PlayStation 3? Not likely."
I think you answered your own question.
Next, post an article with a headline like:
"Is frozen water hot to the touch?"
...
"No, it's cold."
What is the point of this article you ask? Why, it's to insight flame wars ofcourse :)
SickNic @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I understand the need to protect your company from piracy, but if I bought a $400 console, and
-I only had to by new games for it,
-my friends couldn't bring their games over to play it,
-I couldn't rent any games,
-I would need to buy multiples of each game so that I can play on the ps3 in the basement too
Then I'd be pretty pissed. If this is the case (which I highly doubt, but its a possibility) then I don't think Sony would win this coming generation. Places like Gamestop, EB games, and now Best Buy, will be losing out on a lot of money from selling used games, and gamers will be losing out on all the extra money they will need to shell out for new, sealed games.
Bo @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Useful for 'promotional/subscription' disc media, but I'd doubt any retail media will use it. We have fair use law and that sounds really 'unfair'... Although with Sony Music's current DRM drama, I wouldn't pass them that they may have something 'unfair' up their sleeves...
darryl @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"I only had to by new games for it,"
Not going to happen.
"my friends couldn't bring their games over to play it,"
Not going to happen, either.
"I couldn't rent any games,"
Guess what? Not going to happen.
"I would need to buy multiples of each game so that I can play on the ps3 in the basement too"
Like seriously, do you even for an instant believe that could even be a possibility?
Not going to happen.
Watch now, as there are posts over and over about the same thing. As if Sony (or any company) would even think about doing this. This is just more anti-Sony joystiq-ism. There is at least one post a day like this.
Go 360! Who's your Daddy? Microsoft is...
Qubit @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Huh? Anyone actually beleive they would do such a stupid move?
matt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
no way is this on the ps3, but for sure on blu-ray. hopefully something we'll never see only being an option for developers to use on certain media. i still think the option to rent/borrow/buy used/bong hit will still be there.
DG @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I think it would be extremely funny and Sony-appropriate if they DRMed the entire system. This is the company, after all, that is infecting its consumers' computers just for trying to listen to music. At this point, it's impossible to put anything beyond Sony's reach.
But really, would they be so stupid as to eliminate rentals from their console? That would definitely be the quickest way to kill off an otherwise viable system.
Jameyt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Funny, it seems like all the things that we immediately assume are completely too stupid for prime time, someone, somewhere finds a way to make happen.
For hardcore gamers, when you floated the 360 with no hard drive rumor awhile back the impression was "no way".
If you would have told me a month ago that Sony would plan to have no unified online experience, that they wouldn't even try with the next generation to compete with Live, I'd have thought you were smoking crack.
I (like all of you so far) seriously doubt that they would be dumb enough to lock the console to just new games but with some of the other craziness that Ken and Co have been coming up with, will you truly be suprised if they announce this as a cool new "feature"?
Jody Anthony @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
not only would it be stupid for games, but it would be a total bonehead move if they blovked blu-ray movies from being used or what have you. Sony want's blu-ray to be the format of choice, the new DVD...theres no way they would be stupid enough to block people from using used blu-ray discs, especially seeing how big game/movie rental is. Unless they sent rental places different discs, but that would be way too much of a pain, it seems.
The only place I could see such a thing happening is with like PC software. How many people reading this DON'T have a piece of pirated software on their computer?
David @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
SickNic - You've hit the nail on the head - it's the RETAILIERS who get the money for used games, not the developer and publisher.
Here's the deal - lets say a game costs $50. The breakdown goes something like this :
$8 store
$12 hardware licensee ( Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo )
$20 Publisher
$10 Developer, after production costs recouped.
Now, lets say a used copy is on the shelf right next to it for $35, of which the store gave the original owner $20 in store credit for.
$16 store
$0 hardware licensee
$0 Publisher
$0 Developer
PLUS, since it's store credit, it encourages repeat business.
Now, you could theoretically make an "unlocked" disc that doesn't need to be registered, that blockbuster could buy for say, $1000. Keep in mind that a piece of movie rentals goes back to the studios, not so with games. So publishers see the same money from Blockbuster buying a copy that you do.
This is simply a move to protect the business side of games. And while you may think customers will be up in arms, ( some may be ) publishers and developers love it and will flock to the system. Pre-Owned and rented games a killing the game industry.
Repsode @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
This is highly unlikely to occur, Commerical Suicide. It is, however perfect for master discs(Gold) to reduce leaked code. It couldn't put it into retail discs, Sony just isn't that stupid.
But it is that arrogant. So it's still a possibility, however slim.
Chris_C @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Joystiq really seems to be sticking it to the PS3 lately, I mean your beef? You KNOW this won't happen because as you pointed out, it won't make sense. It would kill the rental business and make it impossible to borrow games.
Kamalot @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I'd believe this. Actually, coming from Sony, I'd expect it. Sony isn't about the games, they are about controlling the media and the formats. Look at what they are doing with regular CDs. Look at the Memory Stick and the UMD. If Sony could find a way to make you buy multiple copies of a movie or a game, they'd implement in a heartbeat.
Since when did Sony give a rat's ass about the end user?
Kamalot @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Chris_C:
The reason Joystiq is really sticking it to the PS3 is cause Sony is giving us all plenty of reasons to not want one. What have we been given from Sony?
Lies, hype, spin and pre-rendered movies. Don't forget the pulled features and lack of a unified online service. Even the lowly and inexpensive DS has that.
Kamalot @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
And when I say, "Look at what they are doing with regular CDs" I mean the fact that regular music CDs coming from Sony install spyware on your computer.
Here is some more information about it:
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-sony-dangerous-decloaking.html
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sony-rootkit-worstdrmever-134717.php
http://techdirt.com/articles/20051108/0117239_F.shtml
You actually have to REQUEST from Sony the ability to uninstall this software from your machine. The worst part? It is a security risk.
I wouldn't put it past Sony to screw my own mom behind my back if it meant they could be assured the sale of another disc.
Kuyu @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
The reason Sony is getting beaten up lately is their total lack of news about the PS3. Didn't Kutaragi say they would counter the 360 launch with some blockbuster games and a bunch of PS3 info? SoC and GTA:PSP are the big plan? Please Sony! Give me a break, or at least one good reason NOT to buy the 360.
1up_clock @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
ATTENTION EVERYONE WHO SAYS THIS IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
If you spent more than 5 seconds reading it, you should know that THIS IS A RUMOR. However, being Sony, I find this very hard to not happen. If you disagree, go back to watching UMD movies that can only be played on your PSP :}
mercatfat @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
don't kill the messenger.
if you submit positive ps3 news, they will post it.
KM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I really can't imagine Sony actually doing this.
But if they did, then wouldn't that mean that if your PS3 breaks, then none of your games would work on the new one? Given Sony's abysimal track record with DRE's and the like, that would be absolutely rediculous.
Not only would we get to buy their system again, we'd also get to buy all our games again!
It seems the same would apply to movies too. How many people think they'll have the same DVD player in 15 years (assuming it was still the format of choice)? And how many might want to watch their current movies in 15 years?
vakerorokero @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"This is just more anti-Sony joystiq-ism. There is at least one post a day like this."
People. if you think about it, the oneas against Sony are the ones against a measure like this. Don't you all buy games? you borrow? from who? that guy in the corner in the flea market? sounds like piracy to me. Who borrows games from friends? really who does that? This isn't for leaked code also. I remember about 3 cases in the whole market who had trouble like that. But I see modchips everywhere. rentals? ok. that does exists, so maybe Sony doesn't care for them. In the same week that Sony is under fire so the rootkit that you can't remove if you still want your pc to work. It may be commercial suicide since many of the ps1, ps2 and ps3 fans are people who spend less that $5 on games a months, and they play at least all big releases each month, and then go flame nintendo fans about their lack of games. Nintendo doesn't have that big piece of market like sony but all their revenue is thanks to no piracy of their console and games, unlike the XBOX which is the modders dream come true and Ps2 which you can mod and then stops working.
"This is simply a move to protect the business side of games. And while you may think customers will be up in arms, ( some may be ) publishers and developers love it and will flock to the system."
I AGREE. This sounds to me more pro-sony than against it. Buy games people, don't "borrow" them. you're killing all the small developers who can't afford piracy. Big developers sell anyways thanks to big budgets and marketing.
joss @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I'm curious as to how darrly knows 100% 'that it's not
going to happen'? Opinion and fact and two completely different things
and enless you actualy work for sony your not going to be able to tell
for atleast another year.
Who knows what that Patent is for, but considering it's even in
existence is slightly troubling, regardless of what product it comes out for.
Blue ray, CDs or even (god forbid) PS3 games, the actual concept of not
allowing you to rent, sell or even share said media is not very
friendly towards the end user, at all. I hope it doesn't even get put into use,
but why go to the trouble of getting the Patent :/
If they do try this, it will make the DRM scandal look like a minor deal.
Logicus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"What is the point of this article you ask? Why, it's to insight flame wars ofcourse :)"
Yeah I agree. This site is as analytic and objective as Jon Stuart and Bill Maher.
Still, there a few interesting nuggets every now and then
Todd @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
If you look at some of the different security that is going into blu-ray then you'd see that something like this or at least as upsetting as this might happen. I've read that you might have to have a broadband connection attached at all times and if it detected any type of tampering or anything it could conclude as piracy then it bricks your system. Then you have to take it to a authorized repair place and pay to have it reset. That's putting a little too much power in their hands for a product that I bought IMHO.
Johan @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
*sigh* if you spent even 30 SECONDS reading the patent (I read the entire thing), you would see this is a patent for detecting if a disc is mastered in a particular way. Meaning, a defense against home burning, bootleg copies, and other not-through-retail-channels discs.
All this patent describes is how to defeat modchips by examining the structure of the disc itself instead of simply looking for a "This is OK! says Sony" file on the disc.
Oh, and this patent was applied for in 1999 in Japan, and merely being cross-applied for in the States (applied for in 2000, granted in 2004). Meaning this process is most likely already in existance in later PS1s and the PS2 line of hardware.
Joystiq, do some research before fanning the flames.
Russell Kinsella @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
so no more trade ins?
ebp2k2 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
this will effectively kill USED SW and HW market for EB and gamestop.
Chris McDowell @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I remember when sony headphones would not go all the way into your tape player unless it was a sony tape player. It would not give you stereo. The headphones had a little edge and in the player it was depressed in. All of the other players were just flush. Sony has been at this for years and years.
CapAmerica @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
If this were to some how turn out to be true and Sony used this on the PS3, they might as well pack up the Playstation name and kiss the game industry goodbye cause every single exclusive developer would jumpship cause no gamer in their right mind would play a system that does this.
This would be suicide.
Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Sony get tougher on piracy, first rootkits on CD's now this. If this is true, then sony anti-piracy thinking is gonna make them lose money either way but its more on one side and have bad customer rating.
In my opinion I dont think they will for some reason hopefully they will do market research, and learn they will alienate their customers and pretty much their reputation.
Don @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
DON'T YOU BLIND FANBOYS GET THIS YET, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MICROSOFT IS DOING!
We have no proof that this rumor is true for Sony, but it will be suicide to do so with physical media, and we know it won't happen.
But Microsoft on the other hand is pushing online digital transactions WHICH WILL BE BOUND TO YOUR MACHINE WITH DRM WITH NO RESALE RIGHTS. Why isn't Joystiq writing an article about that instead of a completely false rumor.
Kamalot @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Sony does not do market research to find out what customers want. Sony TELLS customers what they are supposed to want!
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20051104
Shapyi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
I dont see PlayStation 3 using this technology. Although, I know Sony would really like to do it. Think about it for a second. Sony is going to be making PS3 at a loss, it features Blu-Ray, the Cell CPU, etc, etc. Software sales will be important, I'm sure that Blu-Ray discs cost more to produce than DVDs.
So if a game only works on 1 console, people can't borrow games, people can't rent games and stores like Gamestop can't sell them used it doesn't benefit Sony's profits at all. They don't gain any money when Gamestop sells a game, they don't gain any money when a game is rented, they don't gain any money when someone lets their friend borrow a game.
It would be sad to see them pull something this underhanded and greedy on their fanbase. I do not think it will happen, but if it does I will not be surprised. It's Sony after all haha.
Loki @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
ebp2k2
this will effectively kill USED SW and HW market for EB and gamestop.
No it wouldn't because no one would buy or own blue ray or PS3 if they put that crap into their product....This would go the way of that dvd tech that only works for 24 hours after air hits them. DOA before it even hits the open market.
JM @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
might as well make the console disposable so you have to buy a new one everytime you turn it off.
Seriously though... Sony has a bad track record for proprietary issues.
I hope this isn't going to be another Betamax moment for them.
nk @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
vakerorokero wrote:
"People. if you think about it, the oneas against Sony are the ones against a measure like this. Don't you all buy games? you borrow? from who? that guy in the corner in the flea market? sounds like piracy to me. Who borrows games from friends? really who does that?"
Hahahahahaha
That's ridicilous.
Among my usual band of four, when one owns a game, basically we all own it. It gets passed around. The only time when I actually buy a game that one of my friends already has is when I really want it for my collection. And many, many gamers do this.
And another thing, I buy my games almost explusively used on Ebay. And again, I'm not alone, if you look at some polls on major websites you'll see that a large percentage of gamers do the same (or they buy them used from their local store).
If Sony goes through with this, it will be bad for us, and other than what you seem to think, NOT for those who pirate games, because they'll mod their PS3 to disable the DRM anyway (a fact which should be obvious to anyone).
Chris Clark @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
How would this be the case? How would they detect whether or not a game was used at all or not. Does this mean technically that if you "use" a game once that it won't play afterwards because it's now "used". I think that even the idea that this could be the case is moronic.
Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"How would they detect whether or not a game was used at all or not."
This what I got from spong. "PlayStation 3 would prevent the use of used software, with technologies patented by SCEIs Ken Kutaragi and team set to read, store and delete security codes on a per-disc, per machine basis."
Information Central @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
As usual, no one points out the obvious:
This is DIVX all over again.
ulysses @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
well think about this. most of the systems that have been pirated have ended up being hot sellers. when the ps1 was pirated, people dropped nintendo to go get the ps1 and some cheap black cds. so what happened, the playstation name became very recognize and thus the ps2 keeped the heat going. once it was pirated, people wanted to get it and play there bootlegs. this killing the dreamcast ( though the dreamcast was like the xbox, a pirates dream machine). once the xbox and gamecube cameout and people found it very hard to mod the gc, people didnt want to have buy it and its games so it lost popularity. where in contrast, the xbox became the current modders dream console, which then lead to the xbox name being recognize and taking heat from the ps2.
so where does this lead us, well it tells us that MOST LIKELY the console who is modded the easies and quickest will most likely be the winner of the next-gen console fight.
by the way i love all my systems, but the xbox has a place i my heart because of its HDD and all the pirate games i uploaded to it. ;)
Lansing @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
This post is proof that Joystiq has a personal hatred of the Playstation 3. This isn't true anymore than the xbox360 having the compatability to play all the original xbox games. (baaaaziiing!)
Joystiq has really become the FoxNews of gaming information. Report only news that will be negatively interpreted for the playstation3.
Sadest thing of all - I'm going to end up getting an xbox360. But I hate this bias crap all the same.
richardun @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
You know, the blogs at weblogs inc are getting more and more out of hand. Their choice of headlines while eye-catching are misleading. Sometimes, outright false.
This title is dangerously close to propaganda.
"Ps3 not able to play used games?"
The kingdom for a question mark.
It's not even the Time Warner's buy-out of these blogs, although, these types of headlines have been more prevalent of late.
Jody @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
hey everyone, remember when joystiq was quite pro sony and quite against nintendo (or so it seemed) and all the sony fans said that nintendo fans were stupid for thinking joystiq was biased?
darryl @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
"However, being Sony, I find this very hard to not happen. If you disagree, go back to watching UMD movies that can only be played on your PSP :}"
And what other device would play them then? OMG, some people must have lead pipes.
Nipahc @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Watch them try it for a moment, Its like the RIAA fight. Its pointless. Lets do the same with spoons, thay way people won't get sick.
empt @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
so if the copy protection is hardware ID based.....
If my console dies, and I buy a new one, do all my disks become unplayable?
And if it's IP based.....
If I move, do all my disks become unplayable?
bread @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
why would the disc know which ps3 its in?
does this mean all ps3's have to connected to the internet to verify the disc or does the ps3 have a way of burning info onto the disc? i know none of my dvd players are networked to verify my dvds.
1up_clock @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Darryl, post 39.
""However, being Sony, I find this very hard to not happen. If you disagree, go back to watching UMD movies that can only be played on your PSP :}"
And what other device would play them then? OMG, some people must have lead pipes."
Um, wait, was that an insult? Should I feel insulted? Or will this just lead to "OMG GO BACK TO PLAY POKEMON, FAG LOL"? Seriously, you kinda just proved my point more. In some way.
Geordan @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
Sony is the worst company in the world. I hope they do this. I want to walk on their filthy grave and piss on the stone when they inevitably die. I hope they burn in hell.
Bastards
Neko Tsukimi @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM
If Sony were to do that, that would be like instant nail in coffin. That's kinda a crazy idea. Would be useful for like demo unit stuff in store and at trade shows. But for anything like that to creep up into the consumer market... That would suck so much. Hopefully, no one is looking at this idea and thinking of impementing it...