Girl gamers are just geeks, not freaks

by James Ransom-Wiley { Nov 10th 2005 at 2:00PM }

Evil Avatar recently scored an interview with Amber (aka AthenaTwin -- pictured here on the right with gamer twin sister Amy), clan leader of PMS Clan, which has about 400 female members worldwide. "Women and gaming" has been a hot topic lately, and this interview does a nice job of putting a laid-back spin on the subject. After all, the current influx of female gamers into popular gaming (e.g. FPS competition) can be considered a momentous shift in the industry, but in the end, they're just ordinary "geeks" like the rest of us guy gamers.

Choice quote

[Interviewer]: Are you excited for the Xbox 360?...
AthenaTwin: OMG. Is a crack-whore excited about her next fix? You bet.

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Truth @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Interviewer]: Are you excited for the Xbox 360?...
AthenaTwin: OMG. Is a crack-whore excited about her next fix? You bet.

That is pretty damn funny. I think she was giving us a hint.

Ruari @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

This group is pointless. If women want to be recognized as gamers then they need to integrate into the online commnunity, not group together, segregation doesn't work.

Also look at the name of the group, would it not offend you if I called my group of men only (which would not be allowed) Crazy Wife Beaters?

Mark B @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Just wondering if that chick is somehow related to Jay Leno?

The resemblance is absolutely uncanny.

Sense @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Somehow I don't think Crazy Wife Beaters is parallel to PMS. PMS is at least humorous. Women and men joke about PMS all the time. Don't you ever watch stand-up comedy?

On the other hand, hilarious jokes about domestic abuse are few and far between.

There are men's and women's clubs all over the place.

And to be frank, all online clans are pointless. Fun is pointless. That's why it's fun.

dafnap @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

But sometimes it's next to impossible to integrate into the online community -once a guy hears a girl's voice, they freak right the fuck out. Sure, it can be argued that if more and more girls spoke up, the instances of "OMG YOU R GIRL, PIX PLS" would probably go down, but not significant enough in a short amount of time to make the playing experience in any way fun for the girls playing RIGHT NOW.

Shit, girls want their games to be fun -sure, we'd like greater recognition, but at the end of the day a game is a game. We shouldn't have to constantly "represent" ourselves and sacrifice the whole *reason* were playing games in the first place -girl groups are support groups, a place a bunch of us can kick back and relax and not have to uncomfortable field questions about our bra size and what kind of panties we wear (if we're even girls that is, being competent in any sort of online play seems to work against us more often than not).

Honestly -you might find the group pointless, I just wish I had heard of it sooner.

nov1688 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

#2...you're an @$$

I read the entire blog that joystiq posted about the girl gamer a few days ago, and the reason that they create clans like his is because they don't want to be treated like shit when they play a game. It's the same reason while people create clans on xbox live to get away from people that swear or take away the fun that is supposed to be in a video game. Oh, and marital abuse is not funny. The reason that PMS is funny is because they are girls and they are poking fun at themselves.

nov1688 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Truth @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

This group is bullshit. The only reason why wanted to form a group in the first place is because they feel the video game industry is sexist. Women did the same back when they couldn't vote. They still feel women are deprived of their rights. Get the hell out of here.

syco @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I think the thing is being blown out of proportion. I've personally only met two girls in my entire life that played video games regularly. They make news exactly because they aren't that common. There may be more of them now, but I bet you the ratio hasn't changed at all, there's more gamers total than there used to be. Personal experiance says there's very very few girls playing World of Warcraft, for example. Probably fewer than 5%.

Hellboy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Ron Perlman called....he want's his jaw back...

:P

Seriously though....who cares about what "type" of person games...not me. As long as the competition is good, rock on...

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Personally I think PMS group is waste of time, if girl gamers dont want to feel isolated as gamers, creating groups like this makes it redudant.I think weird the fact, they complain of being generalized "that girls dont game" and stereotype all men as being desperate and weird on internet. Even if I was playing a game, I always get some weird racist, homophobe nut telling me "I'm gay" or how he hates certain people or some guy telling "I'm crappiest thing he's seen", I dont see much different how some female gamers, get told they want pictures. Second thing if you dont want, to be discredited for your gender, you dont really need to mention since in a game it has no purpose and coming as princess21 doesnt help. The fact is clans like PMS, dont really help, they're c'mon set to prove girls and gamers, as long as clans like these exist I think girl gamers will get bad end of the stick.

Cyberclaws @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

You have to remember that these games are played by all types of people of all ages. Key word being ages. We as adults see things entirely differently then say, a 13 yo who's enjoying the anonymity of online gaming. I can't think of any kids in that age group (including when I was a kid) that wasn't up to some kind of mischief.

Realistically, we have to keep all this in mind. Sure, it annoys the hell out of me when I see comments in-game and in blogs like this about how guys are always asking for pics or trying to use their latest and lamest pick up lines. It's probably some hormonally driven adolescent trying to lose his virginity.

I don't mind 'girls' playing games, I encourage it. But at the same time, we should all consider the fact that there are not only girls playing, but women, older folks, teenagers, pre-teenagers/young kids and my demographic; the 30 something male. When I play a game, I want to have fun in a virtual world, I don't use it to try and get 'laid'. But that's just me and possibly my demographic.

All this should be taken into consideration and we shouldn't cater to or enable one group and penalize or punish another for anothers sake. I'm not sure there is a real answer to this dilemma, but the problem is in-your-face real. I would like to see one though.

GlitchCog @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

nov1688: "The reason that PMS is funny is because they are girls and they are poking fun at themselves."

So how do you know he's not a wife-beater?

I'm not saying his statement made much sense at all, just that the logic you used to argue against him wasn't too good.

The reason a girl group can use "PMS" in its name while a boy group shouldn't use "Wife-Beaters" in its name is that PMS is about arguably unavoidable moodiness and discomfort while domestic violence is about being a terrible human being, which probably shouldn't be encouraged.

Having said that, these games are usually about killing and violence, so if some group really wants to intimidate its opponents, then the members should call themselves the �Wife-killers� or the "We�ve got PMS so bad we�re going to slit your throat so you can share in my pain." Or how about the �Dick-stompers� vs. the �Crush of the Glass Celing�?

nightshadow @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

gamers... what are you thinken.......to those of you with the insults.... why would you insult this womens appearence.....are you that self conscious that a women can be better than you at gamen.... so your initial reaction is to insult her by any means...give me a break....hasnt your parents ever told you kids.... if you cant say nothen nice then dont say it at all.... bad boys......bad

Rollin @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I saw this girl a Digital Life last month. She's a teeny little thing. Was recruiting these girls checking out Mario Mix. It's like they're making a gaming subset for themselves. If you think it's pointless, let it run it's course. It'll get better with time.

Mrs.EB @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

What I find hilarious is all the guys on here saying "Oh I don't ever see girls online so therefore they don't exist!" (such as #9). And what I love is you make generalizations that because no female you know play games, no females at all play games. I play WoW.. and here's a hint... I don't run around flailing my arms going "LOOK AT ME, I'M A GIRL PLAYING A GAME!!" Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Sense @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I agree that there are a lot of jerks in online gaming. Across the board that is true. But I don't think it's fair to say that these girls are generalizing about how they are treated. The truth is that they will face at least one jerk in EVERY game/match/session they play. Guys by and large can get at least a few matches in without being personally attacked. And beside that, she made a point to mention that they don't leave negative feedback just for smack talk and the like. They're just a group of gamers trying to have fun and encourage more girls to play. What's wrong with that? There are also groups dedicated to gamers aged 30+. Is it wrong for them to have a club too?

And Truth,
I'm sure you don't intend to, but you make it sound like women fighting for the vote was a bad thing.

Dex @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Good God, why are female gamers such attention whores?

"L00k aT m3, i ar3 w0man @nd i plAy gamEz, d0n't hAt3 meee111!!!"

Just shut the hell up, pick up the controller, and prepare to get your ass whupped or prepare to whup my ass.

Hellboy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

The resemblance struck me immediately, thats all nightshadow. She looks like she could be Ron Perlman's daughter.

In all honesty, she's good lookin, it's a bad pic though because the smile is so fake looking.

Can we get some more pics of her please....maybe full body or something.

:)

syco @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Obviously I'm not saying out of all the player's I've randomly come across. I mean, out of all the players who's gender has been brought up one way or the other, virtually all of them have been guys. A friend of mine, who's a girl, plays World of Warcraft, though. It's not that they don't exist, it's just they're rare. That's all I'm saying. It wouldn't be an issue if 50% of the people on WoW were girls, would it? This article wouldn't even exist if that was the case.

Truth @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I am not sexist. I wasn't implying that women shouldn't have rights. I feel there shouldn't be any groups.

For example: What do you think would happen if we saw a group of men on tv saying that they wore makeup and that there should be men on makeup commercials with the woman. There might not be alot of them but they still want people to know that they are out there and should be reconized in the industry. This is what the woman are doing with video games.

Grudge @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Having been embroiled in the last girl gamer post, I will keep this short. I agree with #2's first paragraph (certainly not the second). The 400 girl gamers that are part of this community could be 100 different clans, promoting more diversity and individuality among the groups. I an the leader o a video game clan/community, including women members. Why are they with us and not a girl only clan? Because they are true gamers. They play with us, laugh with us, and die with us. They do not go off into their own little group and look on everyone else from afar.

I certainly understand the desire for these women to band together, but at the same time there are tons of wonderful examples of men and women playing together without giving sex a though. Do you get along well with the rest of us? Do you undertand teamwork? Do you appreciate gaming? Then I don't careif you're an ewok, you'll do just fine.

Yoda @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I'd rub my nuts on her chin.

Nicholas Puleo @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

See, the problem with this, and the reason this article was written was exactly the comments that are being posted here. The REASON you don't hear about Girl Gamers more is because of the way guys treat them. Trust me, I was "in" with them playing online in Halo 2, I would not want to be in their position.

The girls form groups like this because it helps bring more girl gamers out of the closet so to speak. It is MUCH easier for a woman to play with a bunch of women then it is with a bunch of guys. They are almost forced to choose this path if they wish to play BECAUSE of the way men treat them online.

They aren't asking for any special treatment, but they get it anyway, but it's negative treatment.

Scruff @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Omg pms isnt nearly on the same level as crazy wife beaters!!

Idiots.

You do know that PMS used to stand for PsychoticMenSlayers right?

PsychoticMenSlayers / CrazyWifeBeaters

I dont see how one is somehow more un-pc than the other. Again, who cares, if they want/need the attention that comes with saying "look, we can do anything men can do" in a very "no duh" category such as oh i dont know ...... PLAYING VIDEOGAMES ....... then let them have it.

Self Conshus @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Am I the only person tired of the coverage of girl gamers? It's just so annoying how there's always some waste of an article about a girl gamer with a picture of some semi-attractive chick wearing a zelda tee. Yeah, they are a good number of real girl gamers but then theres that "hey, look at me! I look like a model and I'm a gamer" crowd that seems like they're half interested in actual gaming and more after the recognition.

J (The other one) @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Big Yoda. I second the nut rubbing on her chin LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (j/k)

ransomRR @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

What to you tell a chick with two black eyes?

Nothing! You already told her twice!

/Advocate of the devil

BobaFett @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Was I supposed to read that sh*t? Cuz it looked long and boring.....

p-diddy @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Truth said:
>> This group is bullshit. The only reason why
>> wanted to form a group in the first place is
>> because they feel the video game industry is
>> sexist. Women did the same back when they
>> couldn't vote. They still feel women are
>> deprived of their rights. Get the hell out of
>> here.

I hear ya, truth. Can you believe this? Women getting together because they didn't have the right to vote is complete BS. Who did they think they were?! And after them, the minorities thought they were entitled to vote. Now minorities can vote too. WTF?!

*rolling eyes*

I weep for the U.S.'s future. gg, Captain Dillhole. So a bunch of girls got together to form a clan. Big deal. Does it really affect you? No. So who cares?! If it makes them feel empowered or get more enjoyment out of a game and/or community, let them.

-p-

sonicinmobius @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

omg i am a grrl look at me wait no dont cuz im just liek u but i have tits give me attention. wait nvm im normal!!! but my clan name is "htgrrlsnipaz" wtflol

It's so hypocritical. If you have a name like "hOtTiEpRiNcEsS67" then you deserve all the "OMG IS U HAV TEH BOSOMS?!???!?" that you get.
Also, any girl who is offended by what a bunch of douchebag thirteen year olds/twenty year old virgins say on XBOX Live has self-esteem issues. Seriously.

calthaer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Wow - many of you are jackasses.

But back on topic:

I just don't understand how she can say she is "hard-core" FPS and be talking like Halo is the greatest thing ever. I could list five or six FPS games for the PC that could beat Halo hands-down any day of the week, even excluding the Half Life series.

Chris @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

My main problem with PMS clan is their focus on FPS games to the exclusion of all else. Not to go so far as to claim that they're not gamers, because I don't know what they do outside of clan activities, but anyone who plays one genre of games and only one genre of games, is not a gamer. I know women gamers, and they're just like guy gamers, in that they have genres they like, and genres they don't like, but they'll try just about anything once..or if they're bored enough.

One of their stated goals is to introduce more women to gaming, but you can't do that properly if you're only going to introduce them to one aspect of an extremely varied hobby.

Oh Boy... @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Listen if girls are getting treated so badly online than don't play online. Girls think they are the only ones who get treated badly. Guys get it just as worse as they do. If you aren't liked than thats just that. You can't change it. It has to do with you. If you are an outstanding communtiy member to your game. Than people will like you. If you are a n00b(not a new person, but a n00b)than you are going to get flamed. Sorry...the internet is a horrible horrible place. Its your choice whether you go on it or not.

Oh Boy... @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Double post. I just rememebered. My girlfriend and I were playing PSO. My characters name was AERO and hers was Yutaka. We were both Male characters. Anyway we joined a game with this one guy. I was able to make friends with him quick but my girlfriend was not so lucky. She said one wrong thing and it was flame city, and mind you she was playing as a MALE character. So please girls playing games. Don't bitch...take it like a man or don't play.

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

"I hear ya, truth. Can you believe this? Women getting together because they didn't have the right to vote is complete BS. Who did they think they were?! And after them, the minorities thought they were entitled to vote. Now minorities can vote too. WTF?!"
Read #21.

"So a bunch of girls got together to form a clan. Big deal. Does it really affect you? No"
Technically it does, I'm expected to treat female gamers equal, who distigush themselves differently to male gamers by using their gender, sounds paradox.

Jez @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Many PMS members play loads of different games and platforms, not just FPS; however, the clan mainly competes on FPS games.

If a group of gamers from NYC or from Sweden form a clan based on their having something in common (location); or a group of Simpsons fans form a clan based on that; that's OK. What's the difference between that and forming a clan because you're all women?

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

"If a group of gamers from NYC or from Sweden form a clan based on their having something in common (location); or a group of Simpsons fans form a clan based on that; that's OK. What's the difference between that and forming a clan because you're all women?"
When the last time you herd sweedish clan complaining their not being respected as real gamers?
So if you were gonna disgushed the difference in gender and dont complain in negative feedback from some male gamers. If you wanna be part of the gaming community, dont isolate yourself and then complain you're being treated differently.

Jez @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Okay, well, the respect thing is a contentious issue. However, I know a lot of girls come to clans like PMS because they are having a hard time going it alone. Sure, there are girls in mostly-male clans who do well, but there are also people who've had pretty bad experiences just because of the simple fact they're a minority. That extends into many spheres, not just gaming; if I form a UK clan because I'm tired of the anti-British hassle I get on Xbox Live from Americans, then I think I'm within my rights to complain about that hassle!

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

"However, I know a lot of girls come to clans like PMS because they are having a hard time going it alone."
Well the thing is there's alot of people who get hard time not just women. I get told bad things, just like anybody else. The fact is not only women, but I dont isolate myself and create a clan just cause some people in a game calls me gay or gives me trouble.
"if I form a UK clan because I'm tired of the anti-British hassle I get on Xbox Live from Americans, then I think I'm within my rights to complain about that hassle!"
No, thats just means some people target you in a group not just individual and also means alot of brits would be associated with that clan. The thing is not everyone is against brits or girls , just implying it is, makes it kinda offensive. And creating a clan and just makes you distigushed that you rather not be part the other gaming communities and complaining about it makes it rhertoric.

Jez @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Well, it depends which environments you game in; if you are playing somewhere where, nine times out of ten, you will get hassled because of your gender/nationality (I choose these two because they are both fairly easy to discern over Xbox Live; age is possibly another) then you have a choice. Band together with others who have the same sort of treatment, and form an environment where you know you'll be respected; or go it alone and continue to have a bad time.

Many PMS members are from other gaming communities too, and until those communities respect female members as much as they do male members -- and I'm sure you are a perfect example of how to treat others, Jack! But there are still places where 90% of the population are morons and lay into people unnecessarily -- then there will be people who feel a need for gaming within a particular, exclusive community. Many many clans stand alone and try to distinguish themselves on the basis of various things. By standing in the spotlight, at least a little, PMS is helping to combat the attitudes that made the leaders form it.

Hopefully in a few years' time there won't be a need for clans like PMS, but you'd be surprised how many people I spoke to at the Women's Game Conference who were wholeheartedly behind the idea -- men and women both. Also, very little of what PMS does is to complain; generally, the clan enters tournaments and tries to win, just like other clans. Unfortunately people tend to seize upon the complaining, and I guess I'm doing a little of that here, but I'm trying to give you a bit of an insight into our perspective...

Benchwarmer @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

I like that more and more girls are getting into gaming as I enjoy playing with them. Although I feel bad when I run into one on Live, because they do take a lot of shit. They're just trying to play for fun, and should be respected as fellow team-mates (or opponents). Seriously what do you get out of heckling a girl for her picture in a Halo 2 game for 10 minutes? So what if her name indicates shes a girl, plenty of players have gamertags that say they're a HaloG0d and they're most definitely not. So at least they're not lying to you. I cant believe how many guys are threatened by girls playing with them... Have some respect and if you're getting owned, take it like a Man.

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

" PMS is helping to combat the attitudes that made the leaders form it."
But the thing is PMS clan is just disguishing female gamers, but its not doing much to establish female gamers with the majority of male gamers. Instead of having a PMS clan, why shouldnt male and female clan, something that builds bridge not builds gaps.

DJCarbon43 @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

leno called, he wants his jaw back

Athena Twin PMS @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

PMS was formed many years ago at the start of Xbox live, and will be here for a lot longer then most of us. We have since grown in numbers and wisdom, and never expected to build the brand today when the first 5 girls formed PMS. One thing right at the launch of LIVE were people hiding behind the anonymity of their headsets saying whatever rude comments they wanted (similar to some of these post). Someone posted "if they can't handle the it [shit talk], don't play"...Wrong. My motto is if you can't handle it, fix it. And we did for our situation, and obviously hundreds of other females as we now total over 400 females. First off, we are here to support each other first, our community members & clan memebrs which comprise of Women PMS Clan) & Men (H20 Clan, our brother clan). We are a clan, not a marketing group, but are also very much a community. Both groups are made up of individuals that encourage women to not be afraid to have a voice in gaming... and play some games. We have general gamers/hard-core gamers on 3 different platforms (Xbox, Ps2, and PC). We compete in the PRO circuit to support our own name & the skilled players we have acquired through sound reputation and professionalism in game play. I am sorry if some of you misunderstand us, but that's ok. We will keep playing regardless, and have a great time doing it! I hope you have fun doing the same, which is what we are all here to do anyway! :)

Mongo-Lor @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

The point in being an online gamer is that all the distinctions are removed. You are either skilled or pwn'ed.
See you on the BattleField.

FCC.Mongo

P.S. I think she's beautiful.

Female correspondent @ Dec 18th 2005 10:01PM

Nothing wrong with female gamers being around, as a female I am glad to see you girls around. But if you're just out to play games. Why the need to display your gender so much? And you don't really help us out by using debatable quotes like...

"Did that grenade mess up my hair" or "You're dead cause I shoot like a girl"

Because without realizing, you are feeding to the typical sexist remarks that several men use to put us down. In end we are all gamers no need to remind the community of your gender so much. Female gamers have been around for years, this is nothing new.

I would be happy to see a female snatch first place for once but I have yet to see that. I mainly hear about female gamers appearing on TV, magazines, etc. But none have actually proven to be the next female version of Fatal1ty. The guys that are professional gamers are known for their skills in the battlefield, not by their gender.