Nintendo's biggest blunder: sticking to cartridge games for too long (Joystiq poll results)

by Vladimir Cole { Nov 24th 2005 at 2:30PM }

We asked Joystiq readers to weigh in on what they believed Nintendo's biggest blunder of the last 20 years to be. Here are the results, out of 5,814 votes cast:

1,703 votes (29%): sticking to the cartridge-based format for too long
1,507 votes (26%): focusing on the younger gamer demographic
947 votes (16%): gimmicky products (ROB, Virtua Boy, etc)
932 votes (16%): draconian 3rd-party development contracts
584 votes (10%): Late rollout of the N64 and GameCube (vs PlayStation and PS2)
141 votes (2%): Other (write in)

Of the "other" votes, the top write-in had to do with the botched Sony relationship that ultimately lead to the creation of the PlayStation console and to Nintendo's fall from the top spot.

Do any of these mistakes have bearing on the console war now underway? Some say that Microsoft and Nintendo are repeating the "cartridge" format mistake by not including support for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disks with their new systems, but the difference between cartridges and DVDs was and is far greater (both in terms of storage capacity, cost, and techology) than the difference between regular DVDs and DVDs with higher storage capacity.

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

bob23 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Slow news day of course its turkey day....
Good idea for using polls as fillers!

*loves polls*

XD @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

The whole next gen dvd format is over rated. I like everything on 1 disc as much as the next guy, but did people complain when Metal Gear Solid 1, Final Fantasy 7 - 9 and countless others were on more than 1 disc? So what if a game is on 3 DVD9 discs, its nothing new and it won't have a significant impact on anything other then space and taking the time to swap the discs. Its simply not the same as sticking to a cartridge which costs more to make and takes longer to manufacture. Don't forget about the hard drives, ya they're 20 gig now, but chances are they will release larger ones in the future.
To the next gen dvd replacement lovers; my opinion on this is: I'm going to buy a next gen movie disc player with lots of features. I know a lot of people like to have less devices but I prefer to have a device thats more specific and of better quality. All consols are crappy dvd players, but i respect that they get the job done.
What if holographic discs win the next gen dvd war? They blow away blue-ray and hd-dvd put together! Point is who cares! It's about good games and thats what will make a system do well.
This argument is getting stale!
As for Nintendo, I agree that thier 2 bigest mistakes were staying with carts too long and getting Sony involved, but the 3rd thing is they got too cocky because they were doing so well(kinda sounds like Sony with the PS3).

Spence @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I'm happy they're not going for High Definition, they're opening the doors to fields of developpers who can't get funding for their 'big idea' much like it was rumoured for the PSP.. developpers can't afford the next generation will be almost relogated to the handheld market.

I don't think high definition is right, the energy bills for these consoles is increasingly high.. and nobody cares for the environment but if the rate of HD TV uptake doesn't peak soon in the US the world will be beyond repair as far as global warming is concerned: source New Scientist.

Just because you can't afford a HD TV does that mean you can afford to pay for equipment you wont use for 5 years? not really, Nintendo is a real alternative.. and will hopefully be as big of a success as the gaming discussion forum vibes are suggesting.

pr0cs @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

yeah! I say High Def is a plague on society.

while we're at it lets smash all our lightbulbs, stop using our cars and go back to hunting wild animals for food.

Chance @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Fully agreed with XD. Yeah, Nintendo made some big mistakes - but look at it this way: had it not been for the drastic loss in market share, we would not now have the promise of a Revolution.

The Revo is a product of madness induced by stiff competition and lessons learned. I'm cool with it. Nintendo is now a lean and hungry beast waiting for the day to silence all the haters. It's taken a while, but they have learned that one needs to take a

chance (wink)

... in order to win the big game.

James @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Sony used to work for Nintendo?!?!

nick @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

6 - Check under 'History' here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation

Nintendo's done everything at one point or another.

Ph[i]l @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

i dont think sony ever "worked for" Nintendo - they were just in agreements to develope a CD based system. but Nintendo scrapped the idea and Sony just went ahead and done it anyway...
which (as you can see) means that if Nintendo hadn't denied Sony's plans, then there would be no big console war of the late 90s; and Nintendo would probably be in a much better position than current.
funny how one decision comes back and bites you in the ass, eh?
oh - and i voted for the cartridge issue

Jay @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Biggest blunder? you mean that vibration free, quick load time handheld games are a bad thing? Shigsy said himself that Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time would NOT have been possible with CD's at the time.

I dunno about that 29% who said carts were bad, but i'd take Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time over any game on CD in the 90's.

Luke @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Not so sure about zelda, but I think that they could've done mario on cd.

James Montagna (Mario Kart Drift Squad) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Virtual Boy. There's an L.

And, there was nothing wrong with that product. :(

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

"The whole next gen dvd format is over rated"

It is so not overrated. I don't understand how people don't understand (ironically) the use of Next-gen discs. The point is not only HD, which is only a pro. Hell, Microsoft's mistake this time is much bigger than Nintendo's, considering every game for 360 HAS to support 720p resolution, which means having to store more data.

People are saying: "BUT MOST GAMES DONT EVEN USE A FULL DVD LOLZ". Maybe neither Microsoft or Sony have been clear with what Next-Generation means: If every single fucking game is going to be able to be displayed in High Definition, the polygon count and the frames per second will go up, plus more detailed textures, this means that size will increase, but not "1.5" times only, but it will go way up.

Revolution doesn't support High Definition graphics; therefore the space on discs won't hurt them in the way that 360 will be. Sony made a great decision, not only because they back Blu-ray, but because it is necessary. Everyone thinks "it's too futuristic", but that future is closer than it seems.

"BUT YOU CAN PUT A GAME ON A LOT OF DISCS LOLZ!!"

If I remember well, it was annoying to switch discs for the PS1; which, alright, happened mostly in Final Fantasy, and you could call "annoying" something subjective, but I don't think anyone likes the fact that they won't be able to go back to some worlds that were "two CDs ago" just because you can't have both discs at the same time running, let alone switch discs every time you want to go back to Magical Neverwinterland.

Microsoft's only hope would be broadband distribution, but that would require them to sell much bigger hard drives, people to be eager to get the hard drives AND to buy either $50 games online, or get them by episodes, but that's what we're trying to avoid. Also, games should not depend on having a connection anyway.

Then again, broadband is still too slow for that; I don't know what's the fastest broadband speed that 360 supports but I do know that PS3 will support 1 Gigabit Ethernet out of the box, which means a whole PS3 Blu-ray title could be distributed online in less than 10 minutes (and that�s still assuming that the first Gigabit broadband distributors will make it accessible for anyone, which is doubtful). That's something that'll take a while for PS3, considering that the PS3 can handle 54 Gbytes per disc, but the 360 would already need that kind of speed, unless a gamer is willing to spend several hours waiting till a game downloads, assuming the energy/light company and broadband connection are both reliable enough to keep several 360 consoles going on.

chudgoo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

One thing I've noticed is that Nintendo seems to wait until a given technology is affordable and reliable enough for prime time before they implement it in their hardware.
A cynic might say that Nintendo is simply behind the times...

I think they did the right thing by sticking to cartridges! Does anyone else remember the early PS1 games and their horrible load times?

PS1's CDROM was pretty slow (2x?!) and notoriously unreliable (I've had THREE Playstations due to faulty optics). I've owned only one N64 because it has never failed.

From a business mindset, sure, CDs allowed for much higher profit margins and easier manufacturing but somehow Nintendo still managed to keep up.

(BTW, I was pissed at the time when I found out that dolphin was going cartridge...at least until I saw what it meant to be CD based....at that time anyway.)

gamingphreak gaming news @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I loved the n64 cartridges. The graphics were great at the time, with barely any load times at all.

Jack @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

"If every single fucking game is going to be able to be displayed in High Definition, the polygon count and the frames per second will go up, plus more detailed textures, this means that size will increase, but not "1.5" times only, but it will go way up."
But if havent used a full dvd to begin how do you know how much detail texture will take? I dont see how fps will go up or polygon count.
"you can't have both discs at the same time running, let alone switch discs every time you want to go back to Magical Neverwinterland."
What are you talking about? I dont remember that happening on ps1 or dreamcast.

oneway>>> @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

who cares if Nintendo has too many cartidge games, there still good quality games that will last a long time.

petey @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Spence(post#3), you make an important point here, this matter was on my mind for the last week & I didn't knew how to bring it to Joystiq readers, unlike the shortsighted prOcs(post#4), power saving is a serious issue, between living like prehictoric men, and living in this crazy always more consumption of enegry, I guess we can find compromise. This matter came to me when people were speculating over the price of the Revo & PS3, it occured to me that when you want to compare the cost of something, you must take in account the power consumption, i.e. the PS2 consumes 50 watts, the GameCube 39 watts, that means that if you spend 100$/year on energy for the PS2, with the GameCube, it only costs you 78$, multiply that by 5 years of gaming, and you have to add 110$ to the real cost of the PS2. Most of you don't bother with such maths, because you pay that through the years or because it's daddy who pays the bill, nevertheless, it's a cost you have to take in account when you compare the price of the console and more important because with higher consumption, you polute more, and that's quite important, many of you may not know, but our planet is already pretty messed up, even if we stopped polluting today, the degradation of our environment would still continue for a century, and trust me, on this point I agree with W. (you know the guy that lives in that white house in Washington), the more we wait and polute, the more we'll know about its consequences, for sure we'll sure know by feeling it on our skins!!! On that point I drasticaly disagree with him: we don't have to wait to take measures, we already know what measures to take today, reduce polluting, science won't provide us a miracle solution to undo the damage done to our planet, changes at planet level are slow and inorexable, so I say investing in a less power consumption console is an intelligent step, for the planet and for your wallet, from what I've read, the difference in this matter between the Revo and its competitors, could be quite significant, so I say, one more real reason to support the Rev, Nintendo definitly cares more about us consumers and people of this planet called earth.
I humbly bow before you Spence for the pertinence and wisdom of your comment.

ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

And again bd just shows us that he's a Sony fanboy out to stir up a flamewar.

I'm getting really sick of these insinuations that we'll be swapping discs, as if you KNOW it. You don't. Compression counts for a lot on a system with a hard drive. By the time we need more space on the 360, we'll be able to get a bigger hard drive and load a compressed game off the DVD-9 and onto the HDD. If they do it right, they could have the game decompresing & caching an upcoming section while we're playing another, thus offering seamless gameplay.

As usual, you're just talking out of your ass because you think you're going to convert people to Sony, somehow. Unfortunately, Sony keeps alienating people with bad choices (see their music CDs, their devotion to proprietary formats like ATRAC, Beta, and Blu-Ray, and their history of customer service problems) and they haven't demonstrated even ONE playable game on the PS3 yet- Just a lot of video showing us what it "will" do.

Will I get a PS3? Probably. Will I run around like an idiot trying to talk people out of playing other consoles? Nope.

Seriously, man. Your schtick is old. Take it back to Yahoo! Message Boards.

pr0cs @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I'm curious as to how much video-gaming adds to global warming. You really think that if everyone stopped buying PS3s and 360s and bought the much more eco friendly (yeah right) Revolution that society and the environment wouldn't go to hell in a handbasket?

you guys need to get a grip on reality and take off the fanboy goggles.

raccoon @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I wish they'd go back to cartridges. I recently bought that old re-release of Chrono Trigger for the PS1. I thought it'd be better to play it on my PS2 than hook up my old SNES. But holy lag time, Batman! Before the battles begins, there's a huge, noticeable, 3 to 5 second delay from the time they take up their positions to when the music starts and the battle menu appears. That's caused by those damn CDs, folks. There's also delay between opening the inventory, changing scenes, I mean, EVERYTHING has a delay while the stupid CD searches for data.

I miss my speedy cartridges, and I'd gladly pay more for them. Hell, a lot of games are sneaking up into that 55 - 60 dollar price point, any ways, and for what? LOADING..... LOADING..... PLEASE WAIT............

Laugh Riot @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

"I do know that PS3 will support 1 Gigabit Ethernet out of the box, which means a whole PS3 Blu-ray title could be distributed online in less than 10 minutes"

I've been totally waiting for someone to introduce Gigabit Ethernet in a console so I can connect faster at home. Oh wait a minute, Gigabit isn't supported by any national consumer internet provider. So does that mean broadband distribution will be the same speed as the 360? I'm confused.

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

ZeroCorpse:

Disregarding the fact that most of what you post always is utter bull, and then you usually become the typical 360 fan hypocrite and call me a Sony fanboy, did you even read everything I wrote? I said Nintendo didn't make a mistake by not going for the huge space discs because they won't force developers into adding 720p resolution for each of their games. So that would make me a Nintendo fanboy too then?

Not minding that, I don't give a shit which console people get. Why would I want people to "change" their opinions? If you are getting a 360, no amount of facts will deter you from getting it. I'm just voicing my opinion, just like everyone else, and if you don't like it, you can go to the Yahoo Forums instead.

I guess you defending your Xbox makes you feel better about having bought a shitty product that may burst into flames soon (well, maybe a 10% risk doesn't mean it is still worth getting it, eh?). It's not like I'm not getting one anyway, because once Mistwalker releases their games (and the 360 fixes the heat problems), you'll see me at Gamestop buying a 360. I'm just criticizing the Xbox team for taking crappy decisions, but I guess criticizing Microsoft makes me a Sony fanboy *sigh*.

Of course I'm "speculating" on the number of discs, but you can be damned sure several developers will take advantage of that huge disc space Blu-ray has. On your online distribution solution, I�d get sick of getting crappy small games and having to get bigger hard drives just to get a complete game (let alone downloading times). On your compressed data solution, let me remind you that data decompression also takes processing time, but I'm sure that you are tech savvy enough that you already knew that.

�I've been totally waiting for someone to introduce Gigabit Ethernet in a console so I can connect faster at home. Oh wait a minute, Gigabit isn't supported by any national consumer internet provider. So does that mean broadband distribution will be the same speed as the 360? I'm confused.� �Laugh Riot

You totally missed the point. PS3 won�t even need online distribution being that it has huge amount of space to take advantage of on discs. 360 needs it, not only to distribute games, but for game patches. The problem is, as you said, Gigabit isn�t supported by any �national� consumer internet provider (making the invalid assumption that we all belong to whatever country you belong). 1 Gigabit Ethernet is closer than you think anyway, since 10 Gigabit Ethernet already exists. 512 Kbps will get old in three years, or it is old already, considering that in the UK there are already providers for up to 24 Mbps.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Fast-UK-Broadband-With-24-Mbps-ADSL-2+&id=86663

Either way it sucks for 360, because you need cheap yet huge bandwidth (or a huge wallet), support for those speeds, and much bigger hard drives.

ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

bd- It's not that criticizing Microsoft makes you a Sony fanboy. It's that you do it EVERY time there's a post about the PS3 or the 360. You continue to harp on the same *unproven* points, and you make it a habit to disparage people who are happy with their choice of console.

I see where you're coming from, but you continue to say the same thing over and over. You have the same talking points in every disussion, and you've been doing it for months now, with the seeming goal to be to discourage people from buying a 360.

What's more, while you use every opportunity to speculate about possible problems with the 360, you use the same amount of space to prop up the PS3 and praise Sony. That does, indeed, seem sort of "fanboyish" to me. If you can point to ever saying one nice thing abou the 360 in these forums, I'll say I'm sorry... but so far all I've seen is constant complaining about the 360 (including your lame "Xbox 1.5" comments) and gushing praise for the PS3, and a few instances when you got so rabid about it that Joystiq cut you off for a while.

I don't know what claims I ever made that are "utter bull", especially since you don't know me and can't claim to know what is or is not true about me, but I do know that I haven't given out any video game info that wasn't from a verifiable source or my own experience in the hobby.

I'm sorry you're so disappointed in Microsoft's Xbox team. Perhaps you could be productive and get a job with them so that you may offer to fix the problems that you seem to think are so crippling, rather than being rude to people who choose to support the 360 because it offers something they want.

Yes, decompression takes time. However, I keep hearing from the PC weenies that this is one reason why PCs are so much better than consoles for gaming, yet when a console tries to do it everybody gets all upset and starts screaming that the sky is falling because we're stuck with DVD-9 media.

You've called me a MS fanboy many times, which is laughable because I don't even use an MS operating system because of my opinion of their software standards. The thing is, I have never said anything bad about the PS3. I've told you time and time again that I intend to get one because I'm a gamer, I get all consoles, and I know that each console will offer a different experience and unique games. You, on the other hand, seem to spend a lot of time criticizing anything that ISN'T a PS3, expecially if it's made by MS.

I like Sony, but I can't play the PS3 right now, can I? Meanwhile, I can play the 360. In my book, that means that the 360 has the advantage of actually existing. As far as PS3 goes, it's currently as relevant as the Phantom.

Once it's on the market, I'll debate the PS3 vs 360, but as of now the 360 is the only next-gen game in town. Your continued need to garner attention by spinning your wheels on the same topic (multiple discs. Yeah, OK. We got it a while ago, man.) shows that you are the type of gamer who would rather sit around and complain about what the other guy is playing rather than just joining in and playing the game and having fun with what exists.

Hey, I'd love a system that's perfect. None exists. I'll take the 360 in it's stead.

petey @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Well, pr0cs, it surely isn't by supporting overconsuming consoles that we'll help reducing polution is it? Plus I also stated that it makes the overall pricing of the console cheaper...so... I don't get where you see fanboyism in that, seems you are looking in a mirror pal!!!

LSSLAVE @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Okay... I am not a fanboy of Sony, I was never in my life a fanboy of Nintendo (just a huge fan) until I noticed EVERYONE bashes the big N... I took up arms, so dont mind my fanboyishness.

I HAVE played and formerly owned (got rid of the thing) a 360, and the 1.5 comments are wrong. This is more like 1.2 (Blizzard patching rules) and I guess when the HDDVD version comes out it will be 1.2.1. Why do I say this? The 360 offers NOTHING new to gaming, it offers better graphics, oh yay... seriously... I play Super Nintendo still, THAT is how important graphics are.

As for the cart thing, oh and now the panasonic discs Nintendo uses. Horrible move? God no, the gamecube has never ceased to amaze me. They have managed to make it so that games will load at incredible speeds for a CD based format. The cart is durable, I know people with children who chose the N64 over the PS1 because the carts had higher survivability. There were many reasons why Nintendo stuck with Cartridges, and I do not blame them. They lost Final Fantasy, but the series went downhill lately ANYHOW.

As for the Revo, I think it is great that they are doing that. I personally turn my computer off when I am not using it every time (well put it in sleep mode) because I do not like to waste power. My TV off when I dont use it, my DVD player I hit the killswitch on, I turn lights off when I leave rooms, I open the window instead of turning on a fan, and I use insulation instead of having high heating bills. The most power wasting I do at ALL is for my pet dragon, and his light is something necessary for his life so that isnt even 'wasting'

But there ARE other methods of helping the environment. Dont drive when you dont need to, carpool, drive economic cars (Neon/SX 2.0 = CHEAP fuel, who needs hybrid)

Nintendo Revolution, economically safe, great gaming, truly the greatest system. The first generation where I will NOT be buying Playstation.

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

ZeroCorpse:

It's just that I find it hilarious when I am being called a "Sony fanboy". I remember the time when I thought "what the hell does PlayStation have? I'd rather get a Saturn and an N64". I definitely was going to get a 64, so you can call me an N-fan on that one. Hopefully, Sony got Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Tekken and Metal Gear before I bought my "second console". Saturn was out there to die, despite having Sonic and Virtua Fighter (at least back then those were my reasons to get it).

Am I a Sony Fanboy? Call me a Square-Enix fanboy, backwards compatibility fanboy, a huge games in huge discs fanboy, a Nintendo fanboy, not a Sony fanboy; that's ridiculous. In fact I think Mitsubishi at one point was much better than Sony for the VCR market, or at least that's what I preferred. I called you a MS fanboy? I thought I called you an Xbox or a 360 fanboy.

Do I mention the same points? Well, I just keep reading the same points over and over from you guys. It just happens that every time there's something new to talk about to be backed by previous comments. Are those �unproven�? You can be sure 54 GB is an advantage against 8.5 GB. Just consider the Gamecube against the PS2 or Xbox. If Microsoft wants to solve that, they could either add HD-DVD games which would alienate everyone, or use broadband distribution, which isn�t that great either. Otherwise they�ll have a disadvantage, which could potentially have an effect worse than it could have for Revolution.

Also, I did not only mention where 360 *could* fail, I mentioned where it is already failing: 10% (give or take) of 360 consoles are crappy (which made me sad because I really wanted a 360 at launch despite its flaws; thank goodness it�s sold out already so they get over with the shitty systems by now). I don't even recall such a shitty ratio, not even for PS2 nor for Xbox 1. Want more reasons? I already mentioned them. There's a huge difference between the having a unified online service and having an enormous amount of disc space. It wouldn't if we had blazing download speeds and all games had online features, let alone all games requiring a connection (that's why Microsoft is making "all games" online, but I wonder how blue dragon or Lost Odyssey will be online, because I don't want MMORPGs all the time; too bad Nintendo WiFi has proven itself and it's free).

By the way, you are overrating compression algorithms; the point of Blu-ray, HDMI, HD-DVD, etc. is to stop using compressed data; otherwise we could keep using CDs, NOT DVDs for everything, including High Definition video.

Imp @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I loathed the load times and quality from PS1's optical format. Carts were a very trustworthy measure for production. It made sense. I enjoyed not having to wait for my dungeons to load, etc.
Nintendo's biggest mistake has been loss of 3rd party support. It really has hurt.

Kye @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Personally I like cartidges *he ducks a few flying ps2 controllers*

Im not the most gentle-handed person, and a cartridge can withstand being tossed into a travel bag. Cd's just get scratched.

Also (im aware it's stated many times) but cartiges have no (noticable) load times and that very important. I didnt get a PS2 for 2 main reasons:
1: The graphics were WAY over-hyped
2: I can't stand long load times

Sometimes when I was playing my PS1 i couldn't tell if a game was STILL loading or if the system had frozen :-s

If cartridges (with high amounts of memory) came back, I would welcome them (for a resonable cost)

By the way, here in the UK 512Kbps (or half a meg as we call it) is old news. Most people who have that have already gotten a free upgrade to 2Meg, or will soon. 4Meg is what most people have on average (guessing from word of mouth about who has what) and my friend around the corner has a 10Meg (thats right! TEN!!) wireless router!
So the PS3 supporting 1meg out of the box is hardly anything to write home about.
Now if it had 20Meg support, thats something you can jump up and down about.

ps

My fave consoles in order; time spent playing on each are:

Nintendo Gamecube
Xbox
Super Nintendo
Nintendo 64
Dreamcast
Grey... I mean playstation1

Fun factor:

Gamecube
Dreamcast
SuperNinty
64
Xbox
PS1

:)

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Kye:

WHo said 1 meg? It is one Gig. GIG, yes, Gigabit. Learn to read, it would help.

Also, *not* getting a console because "it's overhyped" despite it having great games is one of the worst reasons I've ever heard.

joss @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

For the love of GOD STFU bd. Everytime I visit this website you manage to turn more or less every news post into anti-xbox propoganda.

Typical example,amoung so many, is this very post. the title is concerning how nintendo made their worse choice in the game market, but without fail you manage to turn it into your own fanboy sermon. It happens too often to bare- A news article is posted about something completely unreleated to the Playstation or Xbox but before anyone can have an actual conversation about it you come along and turn it into flamebait.

I don't wan't to read your verbal diarrhea.

I bet you can't even count how many people have called you a fanboy on here. Doesn't that tell you something?

Try being impartial for once, or better still just be quiet.

JCM @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Ill keep saying it.

No loading times on the Nin64, and almost none on the gamecube.

thats why.

GamerZero @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

The PS3 is going to use compressed textures just like any other console,why,because to load uncompressed textures will tax loading times.Another point which I've stated b4 is that PS3 has 256mb of graphics memory so no,it won't handle tons of textures if they are uncompressed.The 360 has 512mb to store whatever it likes so its more flexible in terms of texture storage,its upto the programmer.PS3 is a less flexible design compared to 360 and comments have been said b4 that the 360 will be better in some areas,the PS3 in others and I agree with that.They both offer a lot more than the current generation in terms of memory,rendering power and game complexity which are desperately needed by programmers in terms of future game design.Imagine thousands of troops in a war game directly under your control and rendered in realtime with advanced AI and physics and you know that the current console generation is well past its sell by date.As for going back to solid state memory as in cartidges,it would be great but just too expensive,load times are with us for now.As for HD,I don't think 480i resolution has been fully exploited.Anisotropic rendering is when you render to a high resolution such as 1080P and is displayed as 480i using a very complex algorithm that produces an exceptional picture.Why they are not using this technique is strange as the current hardware has the power.Antialiasing is good but Anisotropic is far better.Photorealism can be achieved on a 480i display,it won't be razor sharp but it will still be next generation in terms of presentation.Nintendo probably know this and thats why HD is not so important.

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Wow, joss, I see you've read all my posts, and still don't get it. I guess that media size has nothing to do with Nintendo�s biggest screw-up; I was talking about all three consoles at the same time, isn't that the point of Joystiq anyway? We're not here to talk only about the past. The article clearly mentions next-gen media too, but of course you oversensitive fans are not used to getting your favorite console/company criticized without calling anyone else a fanboy.

The fact that everyone (namely, Xbox fans) calls me a Sony fanboy just tells me how sensitive you all are, and that most people that are here don't even belong to Joystiq, they'd be much better at "Joyst". Not everyone that criticizes Xbox is a Sony fanboy, shut the hell up. If anything I'm a Nintendo fanboy, but I at least admit their mistakes, like sticking to cartridges for too damned long, which spawned into everything else mentioned.

�BUT WHY DO YOU HATE XBOX LOLZ�

I don�t hate it since I�m going to get it anyway, specially since for this time it is focusing on games more than last time (but not as much as Ninty anyway). I just consider that they have made mistakes even worse than Nintendo, yet the only reason they are still here is Microsoft. What do you think would have happened with the Gamecube if Nintendo was willing to waste the same amount of money as Microsoft on Xbox1?

Desert @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Their biggest blunder is that they made original and fun to play games. If they want to win, you must make violent and sports games with big name franchises attached. Then you make sequals every 6 months. This is how you sell games and win in this business.

n3rrd @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I hate to post a reply that doesn't relate to the topic of the poll but I just want to make a point or two.

In Canada, we have 3mbps standard broadband, and 5mbps for a higher monthly bill. I don't understand what these people in the UK are going on about?

A gigabit ethernet is about as useful as a third analog stick on a controller at this point. I mean, my motherboard supports gigabit ethernet, among plenty of other things, but so many devices, including modems, connect via USB anyways...

I agree that there is a need to start looking into ways of designing lower power consumption devices. Intel, AMD and VIA all realize this and are slowly working towards it. Cell phones and the PSP are great examples of extravagant electronic devices with piss-poor battery life. We have no specifications on hardware capabilities, let alone the power consumption, of the Revolution yet so nobody can comment on that.

I also believe that we aren't doing any thing to this planet that it wouldn't do itself. I believe we are accelerating the pace it goes at, but as proven by ice ages, etc., the earth goes through it's own life cycles.

Next to lastly, try to keep an open mind about consoles. If you can only afford one, don't jump the gun and pick up the first system that hits the market. Give developers a chance to release solid software on all three, then make an informed decision, otherwise we end up with people like ZeroCorpse and bd bickering at eachother.

Lastly, if I had to choose, I would say Nintendo's biggest blunder was losing it's third party developers (which is sort of related to the continued use of cartridges anyways, even though I love them). I can't complain that they are sticking with their core demographic! They have back bone, which is respectable.

BESIDES! Kids need games too, and they definately do not NEED to play Bulletproof, regardless of what Fifty Cent may think.

CHEEtoes @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

"Compression counts for a lot on a system with a hard drive."

The problem is that pesky core bundle without a harddrive. Most developers are going to make games that everyone can play. They dont want to alienate the gamers with the core bundle which most sources estimate to be about 30%. It just doesn't make sense to make a game that 30% of the base may not be able to play.

"By the time we need more space on the 360, we'll be able to get a bigger hard drive"

The problem here is that developers are complaining about the 360 media size already and were before the console was even released. Plan on seeing 360 games across multiple discs. Its almost a forgone conclusion. Personally, I dont mind it too much, but its going to be there none the less.
Next gen games on previous gen media is a recipe for problems.

Oh, sorry to pick on you zerocorpse, but you do post alot of crazy shit on there forums that makes little to no sense. And I dont have to know you perosonally, to realize that.

And BD, I dont think you're a sony fanboy, (I've seen enough of your posts to know you lean toward nintendo), but you are one rude sumbitch and you start alot of shit on here fanboy or not. Settle down, use some manners and people will pay attention to you more.

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

"A gigabit ethernet is about as useful as a third analog stick on a controller at this point."

Why the hell is everyone missing the point?

The point: The only console that needs it, doesn't support it, and the only that doesn't need it, does have it (resulting a gimmick).

Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Not only does the PS3 have a gigabit ethernet, but I believe it had 2 or 3 of those monster ports if Im not mistaken.

mocax @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Maybe PS3 can be used as a game or webhosting server in datacenters.

Kye @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Dear bd

When referring to the one Meg/ one Gig comment, I was actually commenting 22:

"1 Gigabit Ethernet is closer than you think anyway, since 10 Gigabit Ethernet already exists. 512 Kbps will get old in three years, or it is old already, considering that in the UK there are already providers for up to 24 Mbps."

Maybe its because I live in the UK, or maybe its because I'm not a techno-phile but I havent heard any news of 1 Gigabit ethernet, so I assumed you guys were talking of Megs (as we know them overhere) I may have been wrong, but thats no reason to act like a f-ing cunt.

Also, I didn't get a PS2 because the GRAPHICS were over-hyped. Not the System.
"toy-story style graphics"... "emotion engine" ? I try before I buy and even to this day I still cant see any toy-story-esque graphics, therefore, I will never lay down any money for a PS2 as I won't get what was promised to me.

Maybe if you had paid attention to what was written, instead of being so quick to flame, you wouldn't be feeling so small right now.

Sincerely

Kye :)

Jay @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Gigabit is old news, and pointless at that. My powerbook has had Gigabit for years now. but hey thats Apple being ahead of the times. there is zero benefit for average users. I limit the connection to a regular 100mbps connection so I can plug my Xbox into it. copying a 700mb file over takes 10-30 seconds. its bloody fast. What is the point in gigabit in a console? none. 100mbps is old but still works effing brilliant. If it aint broke etc...

Plus have you seen the price of gigabit cards? I dont want to be paying �500 for an overpriced, needless machine.

XD @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

bd (formerly b),
you're simply wrong about the next gen dvd format.
You are acting like a follower who takes in everything companies say and eat it up with a big smile on your face. This is totaly insignificat and will have no affect on anything other than PS3 probably not needing to swap discs and saving space. I don't think people will mind IF they have to swap discs and if they do, ...then they should get a PS3 because of they are lazy? See how stupid this is? PC games still come on multiple CDs instead of 1 DVD and to play current games, you need a decent and somewhat "new" system. I'd find it hard to believe that most people don't have a dvd drive of some sort! Ya, ya, but that installs to a hard drive and you only have to swap for the install right? SO WHAT? I've already said, I'd prefer to have 1 disc per game as much as the next guy, but do you still not see that even IF X360 has games on more than 1 DVD, its not a big deal at all. It doesn't affect the quality of the game or the content of the game because its not like you're going to have to change DVDs every 5-10 mins! Deal with it, your posts are becoming really anying and not well though out. I'm not making excuses for anyone for not using a bigger media format, I'm just not condeming them or saying their in BIG trouble because they didn't. Did DC die because they could only store 1 gig on a disc, did GC die because they could store 1.5 gig per disc just because Xbox and PS2 could store 9 gig? Granted HD is larger data wise, but its still not significant enough to matter. You will likely see disc swapping in RPGs and games with rediculous amonts of videos IF ANY on X360 and that's nothing new to gaming! Where have you been the last 10 years?

*Fact*

The next gen dvd standard is not decided yet! Sice MS and Nintendo aren't OFFICIALLY part of either standard's group, I can understand why they aren't ready to jump in and possibly pic the wrong one. As for Sony, they are one of the driving forces behind blue-ray so thats why either way, they have nothing to lose by supporting it even if all the format is ever good for is PS3 games! They've already invested in the technology and they should implement it to justify the money they've spent.

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

XD:

So you think that developers will be willing to stick a 40 Gig game in 5 DVDs? Keep dreaming.

I'm not saying it'll flop on that, I'm saying it's an important disadvantage, just as it was for the cube and the dreamcast.

Kye, alright, I was rude, sorry, but saying "I didn't buy it because the GRAPHICS are hyped" as opposed to "the system is hyped" is pretty much the same. So "the graphics are hyped", who cares? You're gonna tell me Microsoft didn't hype graphics and everything out for their system? Please.

Kye @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

bd

Apology accepted. I'm sorry as well if i got a Meg and a Gig confused (to all)

I don't think what I said was the same, but, I do see your point of view.
If i were to have bought the system for the graphics and then it didnt deliver then I would care ALOT!
Its like buying a car that promises 0-60 in 5 secs flat and a top speed of 170, then finding out it does 0-60 in 8 secs and only reaches 135.
That may be a bad analogy as some will say "THIS ISNT ABOUT CARS HAHAHAHA..."
But you get what I mean.

To be honeest I didnt pay that much attention to the xbox launch. Im sure they probably said something about excellent graphics but I dont know. When I played it, I saw good graphics so I was pleased. If they had also promised toy-story graphics and didnt deliver then I wouldnt have bought 1 out of principle.
The PS2 on the other hand always seemed to have a grainy texture about it.

But back to the main topic;

I like cartidges. DVD`s are obviously better in terms of production times and costs, so we have to move with the times.

I think Nintendo's worst move was sticking to mostly kid-centric games. I'll admit I'm a fan(boy) of the big N, but I give credit where its due and also slate companies where they deserve it. And I'll be the first to stand up, whip Nintendo and say they could have done with some (alot) more adult titles.

GamerZero @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

BlueRay and HD-DVD are not really next generation technologies compared to whats coming out next year.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27926
Holographic-memory discs hold 300 gigabytes of data and can be used to read and write data 10 times faster than a normal DVD.No wonder Microsoft are holding out...

John Lucas @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Nintendo's mistake was letting the other companies think they had a chance of running Nintendo out of the business.

2006, Jumpman's Dominance: the sequel.
REVOLUTION

John Lucas

bd (formerly b) @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

GamerZero:

Well, we're talking about "Next", not "Next-next", lol. Holographic discs can reach up to 3.9 Terabytes (yes, Terabytes Kye), but that won't be needed until the PS4/Xbox4000 generation, when TV resolutions surpass 1080p. And there are still plenty more technologies in this order:

Atomic holographic storage (can store from 10 Terabytes, going through petabytes and ending in 10 Exabytes, yes Kye)

Subatomic holographic Storage (can store up to 10 Iotabytes, or 10 Zetabytes I'm not sure)

After that, comes volumetric storage.

On those you can store up to a billion years of video in Ultra Hi Vision format (4320p)

Let's keep it on topic ok? ;P

p2 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

I think bd (formerly b) = GamerZero and he's arguing with himself.

Kye @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Terabytes?
Exabytes?
Lotabytes?
Zerabytes?

:-S

*he sits down and holds his chin in his palm, worried look on his face*

Im I that far out of the loop?

I don't exactly subscribe to PC magazines but I'm not living on the far side of Jupiter either, and this is the first time I've seen any of those words. Please tell me you're making it up, please mister. *Puss in boots*

Really though, I dont mind switching a few discs. Its obviously better to have everything on one. But theres a limit to how much i'd pay to be playing on the latest system which can play an entire 3giga-cucku-ultra-bytes game that's stored on a 10super-fantistic-uber-bytes discs, and is capable of ethernet speeds of eleventeen-cawabunga-bytes per nano-second out of the box. When it becomes reliable and cheap count me in, till then, you can find me switching dvd's.

GamerZero @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM

Just to back up my point that Holgraphic discs are not 'Next Next Generation' and are being released next year.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8370

Hans Coufal, an expert in the technology at IBM's Almaden Laboratory in California, says the holographic memory could challenge formats such as Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

As well as offering greater storage, Coufal says the main benefit is speed of data access. The discs developed so far by InPhase can already stream a movie recorded in high definition television (HDTV) format.

I don't believe that Blue-Ray is our saviour!