(Don't) BUY these 10 violent games

by Christopher Grant { Nov 26th 2005 at 10:00PM }

Clockwork Orange poster 225p The "Family Media Guide" has released a list of the 10 most "ultra-violent" videogames as a service for parents who would otherwise have no way to tell what games to purchase for their children.

This amazing feat could only be accomplished by "utilizing a proprietary audit process… employing approximately 4000 rules and algorithms governing millions of potential rule combinations" working in tandem to "generate an objective rating, superior to the existing ESRB" rating. Amazing… how many games have been ignored by the ESRB, only now to get called out by this breakthrough system:

Resident Evil 4
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
God of War
Narc
Killer 7
The Warriors
50 Cent: Bulletproof
Crime Life: Gang Wars
Condemned: Criminal Origins
True Crime: New York City

It strikes this blogger as odd that every single title in this list has already been rated M, which according to the "ineffective" ESRB means these games "have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language."

How much more help could parents need when there's already an apparently accurate rating on the box, and every single title presented above includes the words evil, war/warriors, killer, bulletproof, crime, criminal, narc(otics), and of course grand theft auto in the name itself?

[Thanks, Mark B]

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

GirSaysDoom13 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

interesting that doom 3 isn't on there.

Stu @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

For anyone who has actually played God of War, I think that is the *most* violent game I've ever played. I understand the violence in RE4 but that's shooting people, always shooting. Whilst in God of War you grab a harpy and rip her wings off, or pick up someone and literally rip them in half. And the blood is ridiculous. That game is in my opinon the most violent.

Also, the ESRB does a fine job, the problem is parents, they need to be more aware of what they are mindlessly buying for their children. I remember back in the days of sega my parents would not only rent a game before purchase but they would even play it before I could, same with movies. Granted back then most games were like sonic and were happy go lucky bright images (most, not all, ie smash tv).

Some people need to take that extra effort to know what they are placing in the hands of there kids, or what they are callously ignoring the games their kids are buying on their own.

Sanitarium @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Sweet! We can still buy Gun!! Now I finally know what to get my 4 year old cousin thanks to this list.

In short, I'm criticising that they make only a "Top Ten" list instead of a list with all the bad games.

mark @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

They prolly should have gone with the whole GTA series, not just San Andreas. Also, RE4 features lotsa violence, but mainly of the anti-zombie variety. The violence in counter-strike seems to me like it should raise more of a furor (what with killing police and all...)

Zo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

It funny that they only have a top 20, you can probably have a top 50 list without too many problems.

chudgoo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

A troll in sheep's clothing... ;) Here goes...

Resident Evil 4 pits you against a brain-washing cult that enslaves its followers to do its bidding. It makes its members into the ultimate proselytizers who will stop at nothing to convert you to their ways.
"Los Ganados" (or "cattle") work relentlessly to make you one of them. Sure, they are aided by a parasitic organism, which if you allow some license isn't too far from a MEME...or "mind virus")

I can see why a Christian (ahrem) I mean "Parent's" group would take issue with this game....what, with all the destruction of a glorious church and its congregation. It must hit a little too close to home....

For anyone who cares, I posted a RE4 mini review back in march that illustrates this troll further. (well, it compares my take on RE4 to that of the "Christ Centered Game Reviews" website)

http://www.chudvault.com/?p=5

(sorry to offend, if you're that type, but I'm so bloody sick of these "Parent groups" thinking that they know what we all can handle. The thought police are in effect once again. Does anyone remember the PMRC? You can thank them for the awful black+white "Parental Advisory" stickers that litters the artwork on your album covers)

Oshi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I'd have to agree that God of War is the most violent game ever. And it also rules. can't get enough of that ultra violent killing spree.

GameDeals.ca @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Many parents are stupid. I had one customer ask me what PS2 games I had would be appropriate for her 11 year old kids... when I asked her what kind of games they played, she responded with "They like San Andreas". I hear this stuff every day... and no amount of "lists" will ever change that. Some parents just don't care.

Laurent "CRP" Hogue @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Did anyone compared the list from this year with the one of the last year? As someone said, they didn't even put Doom 3.

Anonymous rep @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Stu hit it on the head (#2) in his second paragraph. I've been on a repair in a Wal-Mart when I've similar conversations to this:

"Hi, can you get me a copy of, let's see, he wanted Halo2?" asks the mom.

"Sure. Now, this isn't for you, right?"

"No, it's for my 10 year old son - he said it's a cool game and he wanted it."

"Okay, you do realize that this is ERSB rated as M for mature, meaning that there is a lot of violence in it, and if he plays on live, it has a LOT of violence in it."

"Why, no. What's the ERSB thing?"

"That's a way of rating video games based on the content. For example, this game is E rated - for everyone. While these games are M rated, meaning they have violence or other content that may not be appropriate for younger children."

"Oh, they all play this stuff anyway or watch it on TV. I'll just take it."

And that's where it ends - a lot of parents today just aren't being parents. Look at it from this way - now RE4, GoW, and all the rest of the games on this list will now get lots of free publicity when they try to ban them in Illinois or California, and their sales will increase due to the stupidity of the masses.

(Can you tell I'm already OVER this holiday season and dealing with consumers who shouldn't have been allowed to breed?)

Sander @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

God of War is the best game I have ever played on a console....of course, I have only the PS2 (which I am considering selling, as I'm boycotting Sony) and a handful of games, but I can truly vouch for it's violence and its intensely good gameplay. The violence is phenomenal, and it gives a great adrenaline rush, I'm glad they decided to have it.

It's odd, as an Australian gamer, that although far, far lower % of Aussies are religious or people like Bumblefoot the Insignificant (see Dreamstation.cc), Australia is the only developed democracy that actually bans the games from shelves (Manhunt was banned). This, I can accrue to the lower number and less influential number of Australian gamers relative to our American counterparts. I only hope that Australia can develop more in this way so as to reduce the likelihood of such unconstitutional acts in the future. Still, at least we have free health care and we aren't medievally controlled by the Papacy.

AssemblyLineHuman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

It's not our job to tell parents how to raise their children any more than it's the government's job. If a parent feels that their children can handle Halo or even God of War, that's really their business.

Ace_ofspade @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Funny, I read there review of Resident Evil 4 and one of the "disrespectful themes" is urinating. OH MY GOD! As anyone who�s actually played it knows, the dispensing of food waste from your body in a casual, non-explicit manner is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE SIN!

jeremy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Uh...no shit. Wow I would've never thought about those games being on a list like that. Any ways where the hell is Manhunter.

Oh and ESRB keep on kicking ass like you do so well.

Michael @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Why would anyone want to buy 50 cent's game anyway? Come to think of it, why would anyone buy anything related to him?

solomonrex @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I don't understand why Christians need to be generalized here, when these groups don't represent all christians, and these efforts are always aimed at parents. If you don't like our beliefs and morality, then fine, but don't whine about the majority of Americans wanting ratings on their movies, music, TV and videogames.

I know the content is important to me, and to you guys - that's why there are reviews on these websites. Some ratings are for quality of content (IGN.com), some for content itself (ESRB). If the industry would get wise, you would control your radicals - this is business, after all, and your industry was hurt by these recent controversies more than it was helped by 'edginess' or whatever crap you think is essential to GTA. I personally don't care how 'great' a game like Conker's bad fur day is, I don't want to play a game featuring potty jokes - and if I had bought it ignorantly, it would have ticked me off and kept me from spending money on videogames. Just like I avoid the movies because I've been disappointed too many times - and unpleasantly surprised by unpleasant content.

Seriously, this political controversy and getting singled out for 'censorship' (or really a laughable attempt to help the few conscientous parents restrict what children are exposed to) is for one reason: demographics. In a videogame, we all know the rules REALLY matter. But for this, you need to adjust your thinking to the real world. Relationships matter, and more and more women get power, money and go to college - and they don't play videogames. So you lose. Is it any wonder the ultra-liberal Hillary Clinton singled out GTA instead of sex in the city? She's supported mostly by women who just don't get it, and who won't penalize her for being anti-violent. Whine about Christians all you want - it's not their fault the 'antisocial' gamer label really does apply to your industry.

Being able to help parents is in the best interests of the industry (far fewer people boycotting, refusing to buy consoles, games, etc.). It's just part of communication. Everyone on this website can make fun of people for not knowing that Conker is crass, and GTA is violent and reprehensibly dismissive of women. But it's not funny for your consumers when they are victimized by wrong expectations - like when you pay $50 for a crap game. Without ratings, most developers won't make an honest effort at communication - for the same reason they don't label rushed, buggy or insanely difficulty games.

Look at the powerhouse of success in your industry: EA. They've always been cautious with content and they're practically minting money. They're really good at communication, too, and they're learning to reach out to women on purpose. Politics is about communication and organization, 2 things the game industry lacks (not least because half of your industry speaks Japanese and lives under almost no restrictions for very specific cultural reasons). Websites like this should be about educating both sides, not constantly whining like 12 yr. olds about 'censorship' because parents take their comic book away after you practiced kung fu moves on your sister.

Just grow up. Don't generalize politicians, Christians and parents and maybe people won't generalize videogames as cultural crap.

Ltih @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Weird that Manhunt is nowhere to be seen. Some crazy violence in there.

chudgoo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#13 : Ace_ofspade ...

I can't recall this particular urination bit in RE4....
Can you refresh me/us?

Totally OT : I actually wish more games would include intermission style bathroom breaks during gameplay. (I'm looking at you Nintendo, with all your "take breaks every hout" draconian legal warnings)

How realistic is it that this avatar has gone nine hours without peeing (or eating or drinking) while I've peed at least 5 times in that time. I'm not asking for a First Person Shitter....merely a break here and there to relate to being HUMAN.

BTW, MGS3 : Snake Eater was the closest to this in that Snake needed to eat every so often to live but he never pulled a Bear-Style woodland poop fest. .....just saying.....

ronald.raygun @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

so if parents have such a hard time finding an esrb rating on the corner of the front and back of every video game box. what are the chances of them actually reading this list? this list is just for folks like you and i to say its stupid; esrb works, and that parents have just as much adhd as their kids and can't take enough time to concentrate on discerning what's right and wrong for them.

Ace_ofspade @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

In the beginning movie, one of the Spanish police officers gets out of the car to take a wizz.

ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#10: I go through that conversation many times in a work day. The number one response from parents is "Oh, they see this stuff on TV anyway, so I let them play M-rated games."

Good job, parent!

I see this whole video game "problem" as a parenting problem. It's like this:

1. If your child is under 16 years old, there is NO REASON the game console should be anywhere but in the living room where you can watch what they're playing and BE INVOLVED.

2. There is NO REASON a kid under 16 needs their own television in their bedroom, let alone a game console/DVD player in there, too.

3. There is NO REASON your kids should get their hands on games that are M-rated if you're doing your job as a parent. If you BUY THEM FOR THEM then you have no right to complain about it. If you don't know what your kid is spending $50 on, then maybe you should make sure your kid doesn't have that kind of spending money.

4. There are several layers of protection on an M-rated game. The title is the first level. If the game has a title with "theft", "murder", "kill", "die" or any of the other aforementioned tip-offs, that should raise a red flag with any real parent. After that, you have the rating clearly listed on the front. After that, you usually have cashiers asking for ID from underage gamers (in most states, anyway) and informing adults with small children that the game is, indeed, M-rated. After that, you have the manual to the game which you- as a parent- should be reading before letting your kid play the game (so that you know what's in it, exactly). Then you have the internet and LOADS of reviews, including parent-friendly sites that explain what gets a game it's rating. Finally, you have your own two eyes and ears; You should be sitting with your kid and watching them play the game for at least the first 10 minutes, if not more, so you know EXACTLY what your child is doing.

Some of these parents- I swear, a DVD movie could be labelled "Mature Adults Only!" and titled "Killer Murder F*ck Squad in 3D" and they'd STILL buy it for their kid and say "Oh, he sees all that stuff on TV anyway."

Idiots do these things, and then when their kid gets in trouble they blame everything but the lack of parenting.

Eric Bostrom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#16/Solomenrex
when i first got my xbox, i picked up an xbox mag with a demo of conker on it. i was amazed by the gameplay, humor and visuals so i vowed that i would pick it up when it was released and then reduced in price (got burned on a few $50 titles). gamefly was selling it used for $12.99 last week, and i happened to buy it.

the demo i played was a neat 3rd person shooting action, but the game i'm playing has me rolling poo, exploding cows and all other type of just retarded gameplay. my wife noticed my frustration while trying to get this stupid bull to explode a cow and asked if i wasnt enjoying my new video game as much as i thought i would. right now i have mariokart ds, chronicles of riddick, f.e.a.r., starwarsbfront2 (psp), riviera the promised land and various other games going. plenty of quality titles to choose from.

i was just so frustrated that i was wasting my infrequent game-playing time on a game so ... juvenile. i'm only 26, but the poo level was just so lame and beneath me. i felt like i got a bit of the ol' bait and switch, since i hadnt played it on n64.

chudgoo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

solomonrex :
"I don't understand why Christians need to be generalized here, when these groups don't represent all christians"

Christians are generalized here because they seem to be the only ones who wish to impose their morality (if you want to call it that) on others, You don't see other faiths throwing their hats into the ring of "videogame violence", do you?

Whining about censorship "like 12 year olds" is something we should continue beyond our autumn years if we really consider ourselves "Americans" and stand behind all that that means. It is our duty as patriotic Americans to protest when we feel that our government is overstepping it's authority. Is it not?

Re: Conker's bad fur day : "if I had bought it ignorantly, it would have ticked me off and kept me from spending money on videogames."

If that's the case then shame on you for not doing your research.
As more than a few posters had said, most parents are totally ignorant to the rating system imposed on the videogame industry........even though it was made mandatory in their (completely ignorant) names.

Re : movies ....
"Just like I avoid the movies because I've been disappointed too many times - and unpleasantly surprised by unpleasant content."

"Unpleasant content"? Care to define that?
If you mean shallow plots and obnoxious stereotypes, then sure, we agree on that much. If you mean that you are taking minors to blood and guts movies and later regretting it, then again, shame on you for not doing your research. I suppose you're the type that took minors to see "The Passion" thinking that it would do them good. Well, once again, shame on you for exposing minors to materials that they were not ready for even if your world view dictated that they see it. Can you say hypocrite?

demifiend @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

what the hell is this parent group thinking? Don't they know that 50 Cent's game can teach their kids life lessons? How could they call an educational and moral-building piece of software like that violent or inappropriate? 50 should put a cap in their ass! (in the name of education, of course.)

But seriously, "parent interest groups" and politicians need to stop blaiming games for the failures of our society. Is it really that hard to know what your kid is playing? Maybe if they spent just 5 minutes looking through their kid's game collection and reading one of those ESRB pamphlets this ignorance could be stopped. And do you think a kid really brings a gun to school because he played GTA? Or could it possibly be because he has no friends, gets bullied at school, and sees his parents for less than 10 mintures a day.
Over the past 20 years the number of minors who play games has increased exponentially while the number of minors who committ violent crimes has significantly fallen. This seems to contradict the idea that games corrupt everyone under 18.
To all the "parent groups" out there: When you buy a game for your kids entitled Super Happy Forest Creatures that is rated E by the ESRB but actually turns out to be a cannibalistic-zombie-prostitute killing simulation featuring meathooks and shotguns as weapons, then we can talk. But when you're purchasing M rated games that clearly show their content on the back of the box (and usually in the title) then you cannot complain.
And by the way,

[THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS RATED M FOR MATURE]

50 cent sucks donkey cock.

Connmann @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I am surprised that they don't have manhunt on the list. It was so violent and made players think of so many different cruel ways to kill people that New Zealand banned the game. It puzzles me why NARC is on there and ManHunt isn't, I have played that game and all of the over the top violence makes it almost not as fun as it could be. Other than that Parents are retarded. They let soooo many kids (sometimes younger than 10) play soooo many games that they shouldnt play. But in the end its their choice.

Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

to #10 Anonymous rep:

yes, i'm SO sure that you actually heard a mother say "my 10-year-old son". NO parent, in the situation you described, would include the age of their child in that statement. there's simply no reason for it. therefore, you are simply ASSUMING that a woman's son is 10 years old. how do you know that she isn't buying it for her 16-year-old son??

-----------------------

NOW.. my opinion on this is also as follows:

games are not marketed only to children. there are adult gamers as well. if a title has a big black 'M' on it and a list on the back of the reasons that it is rated 'M' for 'mature', and no one under 17 is allowed to make the purchase.. CHANCES ARE YOUR 10 YEAR OLD SHOULDN'T PLAY IT.. so don't BITCH about it when he makes a couple of head shots and stabs a couple of hookers. the game wasn't meant for him, and wasn't marketed to him. i think we can all accept the fact that games have evolved past the point of toys and have become a form of entertainment media.

Rullingen @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Urm have these people never played the likes of Doom 3, The Suffering and Manhunt. To be fair those are lame games that I dont think id have a problem letting my little bro watch

Christopher7xii @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Pretty sure Manhunt isn't on the list because its like three years old now, and these are games that are new and fresh and the kids want them. The list is meant as a warning for games your kids want for Xmas.

Rare Hare, I've heard mothers say that a lot, I don't know what you're talking about. I've heard it more than a handful of times shopping at EB/GameStop. "I'm looking for a game for my X year old son" or "My son is 12, he's not old enough to buy it yet so he wanted me to come get it for him with his birthday money". People over share a lot because they want to feel like people care about their existance.

50 Cent isn't bad. If you like rap you'd realize that. If you don't like the genre, you can't blame the musician. I don't say Garth Brooks is a worthless piece of shit just because I don't like country music. I just won't play the game because I'm kind of tired of movie games now.

ZeroCorpse, just because you're conservative, doesn't mean everyone else has to be. You have a Nazi'esque list of things you MUST do in order to be a real parent. My parents let me have a TV in my room because they realize the importance of having privacy. Over the course of my childhood they got me a SNES, Genesis, Playstation, and an N64. The regular NES was the family system. Guess they just knew I wasn't ignorant to the idea of fantasy/make believe, and reality. In the comfort of my own room I can get into the game, relax, scream, crank the volume, and play while someone else wanted to watch a movie or something on the big TV. I don't see why it's such a crazy notion to have a video game system/TV in your room as a child(i mean i had it since like age 4 onward). I don't have one anymore, as I don't/never did watch a lot of TV. It was nice to have the option though. I haven't murdered, stolen, or ran around claiming to be the dark knight Cecil either. It was just a game and a TV set. I'm 21 on my own with a steady job, going to school, and I have a fiance... So how is having a TV/video game in the bedroom of a minor bad parenting?

Jim @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

RESI4 violent? now c'mon: that's satirical humor and satirically clean fun!

Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

"How much more help could parents need when there�s already an apparently accurate rating on the box, and every single title presented above includes the words evil, war/warriors, killer, bulletproof, crime, criminal, narc(otics), and of course grand theft auto in the name itself?"

I'm not sure that's the right question to be asking because I don't believe that these groups are truly that stupid. They've got a political agenda and politics isn't the purview of stupid people. What we need to be asking is "What is the real motivation of these people and why are they getting louder?" With the gaming industry generating higher revenues than the movie and music industries it should be no surprise that special interest groups are becoming more vocal about their opposition to the medium. But I want to know what they really hope to achieve by all their chest-beating.

We, as gamers, need to get used to this sort of thing and stop simply chalking it up as a collection of marginally literate nailbiters worried that their little Johnny is going to learn how to smack his bitch up if he gets his grubby paws on a copy of GTA. The cynic in me says that three things are in play where these groups are concerned: 1) Power. If they can effectively lobby politicians to enact new and stricter laws controlling the content you're allowed to bring into your own home then it isn't a stretch to think that they can parlay that power into "grander" schemes; possibly with much more sinister repercussions. 2) Money. Wether these groups are church-affiliated or 501(c)(3) entities (that is, charities with tax breaks) it becomes much, much easier to increase tithes/donations/revenues when you can tell your congregation that you're actively engaging Congress in a debate about "protecting the chillllddddrennnn!". There's no better rallying cry when it comes to making...er... raising money, and 3) Ego. Simply put, as the gaming industry grows so will the number who oppose it simply to oppose it. No one gives a toss about industries that are low-profile and low profit. Jack Thompson has done a remarkably effective job of getting his name in the papers and on television courtesy of his "opposition" to the gaming industry. He certainly wouldn't enjoy that kind of notoriety if he'd tied his horse to, say, an anti-toothbrush manufactures group.

The mechanisms to keep mature games out of the hands of minors are in place. They're reasonable, unobtrusive and effective when applied consistently. So that's not the problem. The problem is that gaming is a high-profile, high-profit industry and there are lots of folks salivating at the thought of using their opposition to it as a means to a completely different end, wether it be political, monetary or simple spite.

illspirit @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Wow. Here's one of the objectionable bits from the review of Killer 7:

"A character tells another character to "shut up.""

OMG, stop the freakin' presses and break out the torches. Any form of media where a character tells another to "shut up" needs to be burned, banned, fed to lions, then have the lions burned! Won't someone think of the children!

/sarcasm

Seriously, what world do these people live on where the phrase "shut up" = adults only?

Mark B @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I personally own 5 of those 10 games, soon to be 6, once I get True Crime: New York City. I must really enjoy violent games.

Regarding NARC, I believe it made the list because of the massive amount of (potential) drug-use. There's also "some" violence in it.

MANHUNT is obviously too "old" to be on the list, otherwise it would probably be #1. I have it and love it but I can see how it would turn some stomachs. It's a brutal game. Some of the "ultra-violence" is exactly what you'll get with MANHUNT. ;-)

ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#28: HAHAHAHA! You think I'm "conservative"? ME??? You apparently have never read my work in other places. I'm the leftiest, tree-huggin'est, liberal you'll ever find! I am a member of the ACLU, a liberal blogger, and one of the Republicans' biggest critics. I'm a huge opponent of organized religion, to boot! I've stood in front of abortion clinics to help women past the jerks screaming about abortion. I've protested in front of churches. I've written to my representatives about every issue you could dream of!

It's not "conservative" to tell parents to DO THEIR FRICKING JOB. There's liberal (wanting freedom) and there's anarchy (letting your 9-year-old play GTA San Andreas in his bedroom on his own Xbox and TV). Bad parenting is merely allowing anarchy in your home.

Me, conservative? That is the most ridiculous assumption anyone has ever made in my life! I LOATHE conservatives. I'm actually insulted that you'd lump me in with them because I called for personal responsibility rather than government censorship.

Screw you, #28. I'm offended. If anybody here is the fascist, it's you.

C. Grant @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I know this is a senstitive issue, thats why I blogged about it. Sometimes I get offended and upset at the way the industry is vilified, scapegoated, and demonized. But there isnt one group doing it, it's liberals and conservatives, its religous and secular groups. The reality is that a lot of people are afraid of what they don't understand, and lets be honest, they dont understand videogames. They dont understand them the same way a stick figure doesn't understand a third dimension.
Point being, lets keep the comments on track, about games and why they're so vilified, and why these lists won't work, and less about each other.

Nate @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

lol im 14 and i have 5 of those games

Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#33 ZeroCorpse: i don't believe that Christopher7xii was necessarily referring to your political stance. the word conservative is a lot broader than that. wheN you say something like "There is NO REASON a kid under 16 needs their own television in their bedroom, let alone a game console/DVD player in there, too." it can easily be labeled as a conservative viewpoint. what parents allow their children to have in their rooms and when, as long as it's not illegal, is NOT your call. just because you're a self-proclaimed liberal politically doesn't mean you can't have conservative viewpoints.

(con�ser�va�tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-s?tv)
adj.
1.Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2.Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3.Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate. )

#28 Christopher7xii: i understand that there are cases in which a parent would reveal more about their child than anyone really cares about, but in the particular case presented by #10 Anonymous rep. it seemed a bit fishy. it's quite possible that the mother did say "No, it's for my 10 year old son - he said it's a cool game and he wanted it." but i kind of doubt the phrase '10 year old' was included.

Firebird INF @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

There is frequently an unpleasant overlap between well-made games and crude, violent games and I dont think one has to do with the other. GTA is a brilliant game concept but I was turned off by how vulgar the script got in San Andreas.

I suspect this overlap is caused by the character of the developers - the fact that most of them are techies first and bards second. Violence and vulgarity is very exciting but it is not edifying and quickly becomes sickening (unless one is hungry for it). Currently, it seems, the best programmers are contributing to the most immature games.

Hollywood, however, is not that much better in this regard but it is a much more mature industry. The solution is creating more choice. As the videogame market grows and supplants film entertainment, more variety will appear and both Christians and Godless, lefties/righties and the crude and the classy will all get their game and live along happily ever after.

Anonymous rep @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#33 - Zero - I may not agree with your politics (I KNOW I don't agree with your politics) - but I do agree with your comment regarding bad parenting. You've hit that nail directly on the head.

#26 - Rare Hare - I was there, you weren't. Hell, I've been merchandising the cases and HAD the 10 year olds come up to me with their mom and tell them what M rated game they wanted. Most of the parents that I see in the stores do NOT pay attention to what the kids play - they've got the Xbox/PS2 in their room and not where the family watches TV, so the parent has no clue what the kid has. It's also great when the grandparents ask me about a game for little Johnny - they're just trying to fill the Christmas/Birthday list.

I've been working for Microsofts merchandising company now for almost three years, and I'm in the gaming and retail stores every couple of days. (Great part time job, actually.)

What I find is that the gaming stores - at least in MY area - GameStop, GameCrazy, EB - do a MUCH better job of following the ERSB than the big box stores (Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy) do.

What I also find is that the parents try to be friends with their kids when they're growing up - I've seen kids 12 years old tell their mom to shut up in the store and the mom puts up with it. Bad parenting is bad parenting, period.

1up_clock @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Huh, only GTA: San Andreas is on there? Than does that mean it's A-OK to play Vice City, or that PSP one?

Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

whatever Anonymous rep. i just don't see how you can assume that every child who wishes to own an M rated game is 10 years old. you're generalizing.

and another thing, even if someone's child IS 10, you have NO right to tell them what they can or can not play. it's up to the parent, and no one else.

WoWaddict25 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

I personally think that the gaming world in general has a bad reputation with non-gamers. Most people think of gamers as lazy, jobless, dumb, immature people, and they are not. In my experiences playing online games most people have been very intelligent and mature, far more pleasant to talk to than most of my classmates. I think that because of the bad rep of gamers, albeit untrue, many people then think that all games are bad too, and want to stop them. While i'm not for letting 10-year-olds play insanely violent and foul games (Postal 2) i don't think that playing games with a little blood or bad language isn't going to completely screw up any competent teenager. Also, is ERSB planning to make a bridge label between T and M, i know they did this with E and T, but there are two different types of mature games: games that have blood and some swearing to add to the realistic atmosphere (Splinter Cell) and games that are intentionally offensive (postal) and i think the ESRB needs to distinguish between the two.

Rare Hare @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

WoWaddict25: there is an 'AO' rating for adult only, but it's only been applied to a small handful of games.. and even those games that have been rated AO have only been rated so for heavy sexual content.

i agree that if parents continue to ignore the ratings already in place by the ESRB, perhaps they should create a seperate M+ rating or something, or perhaps redesign the label to even more clearly make the statement that the game is not intended for young children.

Ace_ofspade @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

WoWaddict25-There is a bridge between E and T- E10+

Ace_ofspade @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Oh wait, I misinterpreted your comment.

Timpac @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

Where is Postal and Postal 2?

ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:13PM

#38 Anon Rep: It's OK to disagree with my politics. It's what makes our wacky country work. It's why I love The Constitution of the United States of America, and cherish my freedoms: In our country, we're ALLOWED to disagree with each other, the leadership, the establishment, and anybody else. We're ENCOURAGED to debate, discuss, and come to an agreement that suits everybody in some way.

But I do believe that there's nothing "conservative" about actually parenting your kids with a firm hand. I mean, while I'd insist my 10-year-old didn't have an Xbox in his bedroom (or a TV, for that matter), I'd let him play M-rated games because I'd explain them to him, talk to him, and make sure he understands the difference between fantasy and reality before playing those games. He'd learn all the swear words from me, first, anyway. While I don't believe anyone under 16 needs a cell phone, I do believe that teenagers should be allowed to have sex whenever they are ready, and I believe it's a parent's job to tell them about sex and let them make the decision about whether or not they are ready by themselves.

Parenting is not "liberal" or "convervative" at all. It's either DOING it and setting rules, or NOT doing it and letting your kids run wild. It's either teaching your kids about drugs, sex, violence, and everything else, or it's letting TV and video games babysit them and teach them about the world. Liberals and conservatives alike can make good parents, or lousy parents.

Conservatives are my friends (the smart ones, anyway). They are my neighbors. I don't agree with them, but as long as they are open to discussion, we're all OK. It's when the religious wackos speak for conservatives and insist on government censorship or restrictions based on Biblical ideals. We don't all worship the same way, and I have little respect for people who believe that it's their way or nothing.

But government policies, finances, and law? That's secular ground we should all be able to discuss without becoming zealots.