Revolution virtual console patent uncovered?
by Jennie Lees 
{ Nov 26th 2005 at 9:00AM }
Nintendo have recently
been granted a patent with the catchy title "Game information storage medium and game system using the same", which
may be related to the Revolution. The patent details the operation of an
emulator and storage system embedded within a different system, and sounds suspiciously like the
Virtual Console features touted to be part of the
Revolution.
This patent implies a number of things, including the fact that the Revolution may have no dedicated hardware for
emulation of older systems—also, since character selection comes before the game starts, new characters may be
available to revitalise old games. By supporting emulation with "no unnecessary re-coding", we may see much better
backwards compatibility with the Revolution than the first of the next-gen consoles, the Xbox 360,
has managed.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
p2 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Is it me or does that look like a patent for an interface?
SilverDogg @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
yea it seems like some sort of interface for me aswell =/
Repsode @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Is it just me or does the character selection tab indicate a wierd filtering mechanism that brings up a list with all the games featuring that character? I like the way that the games will be separated by series, I think thats cool. I'm weird like that.
Ghost @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I just read the patent. It appears Nintendo is going to exploit Virtual Machines, much like VMware works on a PC.
With VMware you can have several virtual machines, all independant of one another operating on the same hardware.
So basically you can have one VM for NES, one for SNES, etc. which can run concurrently.
It's quite interesting technology if that's what they're going to use.
evilcod @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
click the picture to look at the other images... is it just me or have the spelt mariokart wrong?
evilcod @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
click the picture to look at the other images... is it just me or have the spelt mariokart wrong?
Thano @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Yes they have spelt it wrong its Mario Kart not MarioCart! also YOSHI not YOSSI!. This is so fake
SilverDogg @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
lol, they even misspelled yoshi and koopa XD
Nintendo god aka lil - h @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
COOL !
Away 2 kill off the PS3 and XBOX360
It looks like they copy XBox360'S one.
But what about their Digital Media Formats ?
Digital Media Formats
XBox360 = DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW,WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
PS3 = CR-ROM, CDR+W, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R
Nintendo Revolution = n/a
What will Nintendo Revolution Digital Media Formats Be ?
Jau Peacecraft @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
if they patent for a flux capacitor then I will love nintendo forever :]
Actiss @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I can't want to play games from the "Legend of Zerda" series on my Revolution.
eric @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I've been trying to wrap my head around virtual machines on a game machine. Sure you could do it, but why would you do it?
Then something hit me. Virtual machines are portable. You could create a virtual machine and put it on a USB flash drive and carry around with you and use it elsewhere.
So for example I could have a virtual machine with Legend of Zelda stored on flash memory, that you're playing, then you save the game, pull it out, and then plug it somewhere else, and pickup where you left off. Unlike saved game data, you can have the entire game. But now imagine this, maybe you have 20 games in that virtual machine. You could carry around you entire console on a flash drive.
This potentially could even eliminate the console, although I don't know if they'd go that far. Once you virtual the machine, the hardware becomes irrelevant.
eric @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I meant to say 'Once you virtualize the machine'
Another thing just hit me, imagine having your console and all your games in a virual machine on a flash drive (or cartridge) that you can insert into your DS and play all the games in the virtual machine, but now your portable. It's certainly possible
I'm thinking virtualization could in fact be, in addition to the controller, what makes the Revolution so revolutionary.
Nymo @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Correct Me If I'm Wrong, But Many Of The Words Typed There Are How Japan Would Type Them.. I Know 'Warluigi' Is How Japan Pronounces It..
jl @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
The patent was submitted by Japanese researchers to the USPO, hence the misspellings.
babak @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Eric,
Your virtualization theory just blew my mind. Imagine if they have an adapter to allow the DS to take your SD card from your rev with all your virtual consoles/games on it. Completely portable NES/SNES/N64. Amazing! If this ends up being the case, that would be an incredible bonus that would really drive sales of BOTH the DS and the Rev. Everyone would want both. Wow. just wow.
Steven @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Uhhh guys, this patent was filed in 2001.
ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Yay! Goody! Now we can pay Nintendo ANOTHER $30 each to play all the games we played 12 years ago!
Nintendo is good at ONE thing now: Playing off the nostalgia of gamers and getting them to pay new prices for the same games over and over again. I'm not talking about sequels on new consoles, but actual repackaged versions of the EXACT SAME GAMES, at new prices.
Sega picked up on this, too, and re-released some Sonic games, but Nintendo is the master of getting people to fork over $20 to play a single game from the 8-bit era.
I truly wish Nintendo would just erase their entire archive of games featuring Mario, Zelda, DK, Kirby, Samus etc. and come up with at least a dozen TOTALLY NEW ideas for the Revolution. Totally new characters (with no references to nostalgic old Nintendo games whatsoever), totally new ideas, totally new graphics styles... In short, I'd like to see Nintendo do something different for a change.
Look at Advance Wars. That was new. That was different. That didn't have ANY old Nintendo characters in it. And it was GREAT and a huge hit! If they'd just do that another dozen times on the new console- make an entirely new franchise- I'd be there without question.
But I'm NOT going to give Nintendo ONE MORE DIME to play games I finished a decade ago. No more redesigned Marios, Zeldas, etc. It's tired. It's lazy. It's not the Nintendo I loved with the NES and SNES. This Nintendo just comes off as greedily cashing in on nostalgic feelings.
Revolution? If they follow current patterns, they might as well call their new console "Memory Lane" instead.
BlackYoshi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I'm wondering if those images are fake. Zelda is still called "Zelda" in Japan. Its not said "Zerda".
Mephy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
ZeroCorpse: Advance Wars? New?! *LOL*
That kinda sums up how much you know about the situation.
First, Advance Wars ISN'T new, it's existed since Famicom Wars was released in Japan back in the 80s. Advance Wars was merely North America's first taste.
$30 for a download? Get out from under your rock, Nintendo has already stated this is a service to promote the console, not cash in. Besides, of that $30 you paid for a part of the NES Classic series on GBA (which I'm sure is what you're using as your reference point), less than $5 went into Nintendo's pocket due to rewriting the game code (which this patent alleviates), cartridge manufacturing, packaging, shipping, retailer cuts... but by downloading, Nintendo cuts out the middle men, and therefore HUGELY decreases their overhead.
But you'd know that if you ever bothered to pay attention, wouldn't you?
haggletooth @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
"Yay! Goody! Now we can pay Nintendo ANOTHER $30 each to play all the games we played 12 years ago!"
Ok, Ok, zerocorpse
I read these boards alot and you always seems to pop in on the nintendo threads and spew your fanboy crap. Why can't you people just stay home?
You need to get off your high horse because every company cashes in on success as best they can. Where do you think Nintendo gets the money to develop advance wars? Yeah, thats right from mario party 59. No one cares if you give nintendo a dime. So chill out. If you dont like nintendo, dont buy their products, but dont go spouting fanboy nonsense every time a story is about nintendo. You do it ALL the time. Its getting old.
No one FORCES you to buy the re-issued sonic games. No one MAKES you buy the original donkey kong released for GBA. But, guess what, some people actually WANT these games. Some people want PORTABLE VERSIONS of classics. Well if some people want them, should nintendo give them away because they are old?
I recently bought a replacement copy of the beatles white album the other day because mine has gotten scratched. I bought the original CD years ago because I got rid of my cassette player. No one stepped up and offered to give either of them to me for free because I had them before or because the music was decades old. I wonder why they aren't giving away the seasonal episodes of seinfeld or friends or dukes of hazard. I mean after, we've seen them before and they are OLD right? Guess why they aren't. Because that would be stupid, just like your post.
There is a market for classic content, whether it is music, movies, TV series or video games. Why should they stop selling something when people want to but it? What? Because you dont want it? Get over yourself. Believe it or not there are people with differeing priorities from your own.
Jake @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Ugh, all emulators are virtual machines, nothing new about 'em. So, no Ghost, its not an interesting technology. Snes9x, nesticle, all of them. In fact, most virtual machines just virtualize existing hardware, emulators virtualize nonexistant hardware, so they are even better (but of course slower) than VM's.
eric, most emulators have that ability already, its called save states (which are just dumps of whatever is in RAM at any given time)
Downloading a save state+emulator to run it to the DS would be wicked awesome, but that would only work for the NES/SNES games, the DS couldn't emulate the N64 :)
ZeroCorpse, if you don't want them, don't buy them, it's a secondary feature. Me, I'll go bankrupt buying every single game avaliable, but I'm fine with that. Actually, the UK PR nintendo guy said something like they would only be a few pounds. I think that's a fine price.
truthserum @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
"Uhhh guys, this patent was filed in 2001."
Nice catch steven. That would make even more sense. Isn't that when they said they started development for the Revolution? Why would they file for a patent after they had already finished the technology. They would want to get the patent as soon as they had the idea. So, it would seem that the virtual console idea was one of their earliest plans for revolution. This patent filing would support that anyway. That should also mean they have it pretty well worked out by now. It would also mean that the DS would have been developed with this technology in mind. I always thought the 2005 date at the top seemed odd because they should have filed a patent like this years ago. Well at closer inspection, it appears they did. I can't wait.
Ghost @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Yeah, I thought about emulation vs virtual machine as well. Emulation creates an environment that simulates a processor, graphics card or whatever. It's typically written for the instance in which is operated.
A virtual machine on the otherhand runs a native environment in an isolated instance that is independant of the hardware. For example, I could run Windows XP, Linux, and Windows Server 2003 all in in their own virtual machines all on the same system, all running concurrently, and all sharing the resources of the hardware. If I decide to change the hardware- no problem, the virtual machines never realize the change, they still operate as they always have, independently of one another. As far they're concerned, they're the only OS on the machine. There's a virtualization layer that takes care of all communications to the hardware. In the virtual machine itself, the OS or applications are not talking to the hardware directly but to virtualized hardware.
It's a really cool concept that has begun to take off in the corporate environment. There's really no reason it couldn't extend to games.
I could totally see an entire console and software library virtualized and portable.
Seroth @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
The whole "download classic games" just doesn't appeal to the nostalgic gamer. The appeal to the non-gamer as well. I no quite a few people who don't play games. They're afraid to touch something like Grand Theft Auto or Metal Gear Solid or Metroid Prime, but they'd be more than willing to spend all day playing the original Mario Kart or Super Mario World because they're more familiar with it. I wouldn't be surprised if someone's Revolution game library consisted only of classic games.
Dakara @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
old news... http://nintendianguild.blogspot.com/2005/11/revolution-news-found-on-government.html#comments
Jake @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Ghost, "virtual machine" is a generic term. At the most basic level, it does matter when you change your hardware, because all the virtualizer does is make it look like an OS has the hardware all to itself, or partitions it. So a change in hardware affects the virtualized OS as much as it affects the real OS. Next step up in portability we are using just the basic functionaliy of the hardware, and when its upgraded or changed, that functionality can still be reproduced without emulation. Another form of virtualization is emulators. They create an additional "layer", which is the fake hardware, and the OS (which in this case is a game ROM) believes its running on the real hardware, and has no idea that its running on emulated and virtualized hardware.
Virtual machines are no more independant of host hardware than emulators. For example, virtual PC. On windows, it purely virtualizes the hardware. However on Mac's, it emulates the hardware too (since pc's are x86 and macs for the time being are powerpc)
Your argument for running multiple OS's is moot; its possible to run multiple emulators too. They both exist on virtual hardware, the only difference is one is faster because it doesn't have to translate architectures (for example the NES is I believe a Z80 cpu, or maybe thats the gameboy, anyways, the NRV is powerpc, so it first translates the Z80 or whichever machine language into PPC, and then worries about virtualization) The part about changing the hardware and its affects on the virtual os is completly dependant on implementation. VirtualPC takes as much advantage of hardware as possible. If you have some cool new graphics card, and you take it out and put in some shitty one, it will notice the difference because now it doesnt have that extra VRAM, shader technolody etc to virtualize for the virtual OS. However, there is options in VPC and other virtualmachines to just use the lowest possible, i.e. no hardware acceleration, just render a software made framebuffer to the moniter. So in that case, it wouldn't matter what kind of GPU you switched around, all of them can render to the screen at at least 640x480, so the virtual machine just presents whatever gpu (be it a geforce 7700GT or some crappy pci no name card) as a generic one.
The idea of the games being virtualized is nothing new. Did anyone think they would include all the hardware from the NES, SNES, N64 and GCN and the NRV in that small box? Or recode and recompile all games (alot of the NES were coded in assembly which would be completly unportable too) for the NRV? Of course not, that would be wasteful. Nintendo already dabbled in this with that Zelda GCN disk, which had a bunch of zelda games running in emulators (a test?)
Iwata said at the GDC keynote that the games would run in emulators, with ROM's wrapped in DRM. Nothing new, and nothing revolutionary. (Cool pic though)
Ghost @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Not all virtual machines are emulators. You can virtualize a native environment.
Assuming your virtual layer is supported between hardware, you can transport a virtual machine between systems, making it hardware independant. I've seen it happen and it's amazing, but I have to admit my experience is limited to VMware and IBM's VM. I've never used Microsoft's Virtual PC. I wouldn't imagine Microsoft's Virtual PC being that portable, but I don't know for sure.
Of course any hardware charges are going to affect the virtual layer, but that doesn't mean it necessarily has to affect the virtual machine.
btw, I love talking about virtualization, but I think I'm done here (at least talking about THAT). I just thought it a cool concept if exploited and I could just imagine the possibilities.
Jake @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I never said that all virtual machines are emulators. I said virtual machine is a generic term, and emulators are a specific kind of them. However, on the NRV, they HAVE to be emulators since they aren't remaking games, just using the old games from old architectures. Open the patent and search for emulate, emulator and emulation, or just emulat, it comes up every other sentance. Anyway, your right, it can be hardware independant, but in the case of running SNES etc code on the NRV, it isn't. I'm assuming Nintendo used the word "virtual console" because it sounds cool, and because they don't want to endorse the word "emulation" (since they are against 3rd party emulation of their games, no one calls them "virtual consoles", so it distances them from it)
Anyway, what I'd like to see is NES and SNES games downloaded to the DS. The homebrew scene already has this done, of course there is a limit on the size of the ROM (it has to fit in RAM) but if it loaded content dynamically over wifi then it would be really awesome (however, that lessens the portability)
Hachi_roku @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I dont get it, the only thing they would have to emulate is the NES, and SNES. The gamecube and N64 use the same GPU manufacturer Artx/Ati so why would N64 need a virtual console?
Caveman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Wait. I am probably being really thick right now, but what exactly is idea about? A 'virtual console?' Would somebody just try to tell me what it is?
ZeroCorpse, bad ideas.
Haggletooth, good response.
Watership @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
#30. A virtual console is a console inside a console. The way the Revolution would work, if I'm understanding the use of the term, is that every emulation mode would be a virtual console. A set of hardware or code that would be N64. Another part would be SNES. Another part would be gameboy, and so on.
They use the same idea in DSL routers in terms of virutal routers and contextes.
Jago @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
There is nothing I hate more then people who pull stuff out of their ass and try to make it seem like it is 100% fact...even tho they can't give any proof /cough/ZeroCorpse/cough/
If you want Nintendo seriously drop all their franchises that make money then you might as well ask Sony and Microsoft to drop their key franchises.
I swear...people are stupid sometimes...
Tim @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
PEOPLE PEOPLE.
Hold on now. Firstly. It was filed in 2001, around the ime Gamecube was launched. And according to this patent, that would all take place on a CD, more specifically a DVD. Gamecube's DVD format.
Secondly, This isn't for revolution. Why? Do you see anything about pruchasing the games? No. Its all about the emulator and ROMS located all on 1 DVD, placing it in the Gamecube, selecting what game you want to run, then playing it, hence the selection of only the Zelda or Mario series. This would have probably been used for promotions for games.
Which brings me to "thirdly." This reminds me an awful lot of TLoZ:OoT promo Cd that shipped with WindWaker, huh.
DEBUNK'D.
rippity @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
I agree jago. I dont even know why zerocorpse posts on here anymore. He gets destroyed every time he opens his mouth. Of course if he would ever open his mouth to say something thoughtful rather than just attempts at insults, people might actually take him seriously. Nah. Too late for that.
Mullinator @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
@Tim
Actually the filing of the patent in 2001 would make even more sense for it to be on the Revolution considering that is when development of it started.
Also after reading the patent it never says anything about DvD's except as examples. The patent actually only refers to "storage mediums". So I really don't see how anything you said could "debunk" this.
cheesypoofs @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
"Hold on now. Firstly. It was filed in 2001, around the ime Gamecube was launched."
Firstly, Dont you mean the same time they started dev on the Rev? Iwata said revolution dev started as soon as the cube was finished. Besides, it often takes years for patents to get approved. The time to file patents on the cube would not be AFTER it is finished. Do you really think they JUST NOW got a patent approved to protect the technology on legend of zelda collectors edition. Be serious please.
Secondly, since when does a patent have anything to do with where money changes hands. Patents are meant to detail an idea/invention/new application of technology etc. I've read alot of patent docs and few that I have seen ever include the way the item will be sold for a profit.
Thirdly, A more likely scenario is that the legend of zelda collectors edition disc was a very quiet proof of concept for the revolutions virtual console functionality. If you read the entire document you will see that they describe the possible storage mediums as CD-ROM, cartidges (flash memory), or DVD. They are not specific throughout with regard to what constitutes a storage medium.
Debunker = DEBUNK'T
Jake @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
1. You didn't read the patent carefully. Optical media is used as an example, but so is flash (which the nrv will use) Also, remember it does load some games from gamecube disks - namely gamecube games.
2. Development on the NRV has been going on since the GCN came out
3. It does mention that it would cost alot less to do it this way, with emulators, but the fact that they are being sold is irrelevent to the patent and out of its scope.
4. Someone mentioned the picture was of a gamecube. It's actually a nondiscript rectangle, i.e. some generic console. The controller is an n64 one no less, not because it was designed for the n64, but because the controller is irrelavant, it just serves to illustrate the idea of playing the game.
5. It never said the emulator was located on the CD.
Nintendo god aka lil - h @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
COOL !
Away 2 kill off the PS3 and XBOX360
It looks like they copy XBox360'S one.
But what about their Digital Media Formats ?
Digital Media Formats
XBox360 = DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW,WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
PS3 = CR-ROM, CDR+W, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R
Nintendo Revolution = n/a
What will Nintendo Revolution Digital Media Formats Be ?
Stakker @ Dec 18th 2005 9:38PM
Looking at recent history, Nintendo seems to be able to switch a game's target platform quite late in development, so to me it seems that they have a production environment that can keep the game code very well abstracted from hardware.
And the Ocarina/Master Quest versions that were bundled with the Zelda Cubes (or what were they) were obviously running on an N64 emulator/VM (whatever you want to call it).
And anybody who has ever worked on games for yet unreleased hardware knows that you often have to work with emulators until the final hardware comes out. And even when you do have the hardware, if you do have a good virtual environment, it's faster to work with.
So, naturally Nintendo has emulators/VMs for their old platforms and they're going to use them.
Old movies and books don't get obsolete, but games do, because of this hardware thingy. About time there's a proper legitimate way of playing the oldies.