Project Gotham Racism (Xbox 360 annoyance #001)
by Vladimir Cole 
{ Dec 5th 2005 at 9:15PM }
Justin Nolan over at 360insider blogs about one of our key annoyances with Project Gotham Racing 3 and Call of Duty 2. When in a multiplayer match, smack talk is expected. But some people who play on Xbox Live are sometimes very foul, probably in part because they feel immune from punishment.
The issue is that PGR3 and other games lack an on-screen indicator showing who is talking. If you want to leave negative feedback for the jerk who thinks that black people should not be allowed to play video games, you can't, because you don't know which of the people you're playing with spouted the hate in the first place.
It needs to be fixed. This is not an optional feature in an online game with voice.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jeff @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
This is a big reason why I cancelled my subscription to Xbox Live. Seriously. It's a big barrier against anyone but true hardcore gamers subscribing to the service, and it's the reason why MS has only managed to sign up 2 million people (they trumpet this as if it's an impressive number, but that's less than 10% of the Xbox user base).
I just have no need or desire to listen to this kind of crap while I'm trying to have fun. This does NOT make gaming more fun. It does just the opposite.
Online gaming was better when voice was not involved, if you ask me.
Knox @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Strange how they could have already implemented something similar in previous games (Halo 2) but not in their new titles. Seems kind of lazy.
Teve Torbes @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
ummm, do you have to wear the headset while you play? some games (like socom) probably need voice, but i'm sure not all do. if you don't want to hear everyone else, don't.
BB @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
*sigh*
It's funny, I was just reading a post on the xbox forums saying that things were so peaceful on live. Guess the fun is over.
As a wise, young man once said "I want some chocolate milk!"
-B
The Shizzlenit @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
easy
1. find who is talking (which should be seen by a indicator, i hate games that don't have this)
2. mute them
3. send bad feedback. this exact reason is why the reputation system was made, so you can let everyone know that he is a bad guy. hopefully someday there will be games that have areas that require a certain rep. also, when you send negative feedback on someone, the server saves this so you will never be matched up with that person again unless you choose to.
it's not like MS hasn't done anything to fix this. also, don't just diss MS, diss PC and PS2 because they have voice chat and enable players to be just as racist, although there is a less chance of this because there are less people using vouce in those games.
Shaolyen @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Jeff, I agree completely - voice only enhances the experience if you're playing with friends, if I'm not I just switch it off.
Ian Gibson @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
big prob for me too - in PGR3, everybody wants to play a clean race. it's not a bumper car racing game, yet you always get ppl who shout racist comments and nail you into the guardrail. at the end of the race, if you don't know the specific car or what place they finished you cant leave negative feedback. overall though, you meet a lot more nice ppl than horrible gamers.
Greg O. @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
If this doesn't appear in an update then I will be very disappointed.. Why take away a feature that was already well-used in PGR 2? With a slightly more beefed-up feedback system on the 360, this is a real hinderance to its use..
Stephen M @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Awful.
There is nothing retarded about using the headset/mic during online gaming, James - it's one of Live's most significant features, I would say - but it does suck when it gets abused.
I would rather see it not there than not there and done properly, though. This problem needs fixing sharpish!
Although, if it wasn't there it might not be such a loss. I think because it's been there with Live, I've kind of gotten used to it, but look at Mario Kart - you can't talk, but you don't need to. You know what someone is saying when you hit them with a green shell just and slide over the finish line just seconds before they do. :)
electronicat @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
"Online gaming was better when voice was not involved, if you ask me."
Amen to that. That's why I usually never bother wearing the headset, but then people get pissed if you don't say anything. Either way you can't win. Too bad there's no way to set up matches with people of equal social skills...
I guess that's why I like playing Mario Kart DS so much. You might be playing against a total a-hole, but at least you don't have to listen to them.
HeistGoneWrong @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I found switching from Underground to Recreation improved my experience alot.
Lao Boy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
haha, Good One BB.
Lazy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Its a shame that some people would ruin a game like that.
Any idea what gamerzone this was in?
Tom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Stupid question, as I don't have an xbox, but can you mute people in game like you can in valve games or are you stuck with the feedback system? (nothing against the feedback system, just doesn't seem immediate enough)
Tom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Oh, and uh... hey there fellow Mario Karters... Add me, lets race!
253463-398521 I go by SbooX.
GamerZero @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I hope PS3 comes with a keyboard to text chat instead.If Nintendo uses cute emoticons to express moods then that gets my vote.Playing games online with your friends and having a good laugh chatting in realtime,what a crap idea!Lets just go backwards shall we.
Shagi @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
What League are you guys in, I'm in League 2 and I dont really hear a lot of racist or derogatory remarks other than, 'Motherfucker T-boned me!'. Maybe its the sesspool of crappy players that are also the racists...someone should do a study of Video game skill vs. Rascism. It would probably indicate that as well as being bad gamers racists are stupid.
gjd @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Oh man I hate playing Halo 2 on Live for that reason! I usually just turn everyone off and don't use the communicator myself, though, and that works okay I guess. But I do really like MK:DS and am a big fan of not being able to communicate with the other player (or rather them not being able to communicate with me!)
Good call on the chocolate milk allusion #2.
#3 -- Did you somehow miss the entire point of Joystiq's post? "i hate games that don't have this", uhh.. yeah. That's what they were saying. PGR doesn't have it, and it's a problem.
Evan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
well, as annoying as trash taking is its always around... even without a headset u can always type trash.... There also can be more preventions that r not taken.
Yakov Fox @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
omfg STOP WHINING, this wont stop no matter what. if you dont want ur kid to hear the trash talk, announce it in a game rather then going after the companies and all this jack thomson bullshit, or simply dont let ur kids use the headset, especially when its a MATURE game!!!! it is ur own damn responsibility to control what ur kids are doing/watching/PLAYING
so my suggestion is, take a deep breath and just tell the idiot yelling shit out to stfu, and that u will personally come to his house and shove his ball up his ass, so the next time he shits he'll shit all over his balls.
Rob X @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Agreed #18
People hinding behind the veil of anonimity in order to make offensive remarks offends you? You probably shouldn't be on the internet then.
Your best bet is to make a decent and comprehensive friends list (I find adding friends from real life works best) and playing with those people. Also stick to the E games, they actually tend to have less trolls then then the M games.
ZeroCorpse @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Yakov Fox-- I don't care what the kids are hearing, but *I* shouldn't have to hear a 12-year-old calling me various foul names while I'm trying to have fun.
It isn't "Jack Thompson bs" to insist that my fellow gamers act like civilized human beings.
Leah @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I like the addition of the reputation system with XBOX 360. Maybe in the future, we'll be able to set preferences for players we are matched with, like only those with a very good or excellent reputation.
ralphzor @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Thank God for that year I spent playing Counter Strike. I've pretty much heard it all, and honestly, it's not that big of a problem. They're just words, and if they bother you, find a different server/match.
Although I do think it's strange that there are no indications of who is talking. That should definitely be implemented, especially with the feedback system.
Vagabond Artist @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
how about people just stop being racist and stupid?
That's why I only play with those I know at home...
Cause at least if they choose to use a racial verbal attack, I can punch them in the arm for it!
(after defeating them in the game as well of course)
Nate @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I don't have Live, but I play a fair amount of Day of Defeat Source. I'm really getting tired of all the people with vaguely anti-Semitic names, etc. I got into a big argument with a guy named "Jihad Joe" last night. I consider myself a pretty hip, ironic, liberal dude (I read somethingawful.com religiously), but I'm getting really tired of online people trying to be offensive. How clever! You shop at tshirthell.com. Awesome!
The1 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Funny, these stupid acts happen everywhere including SOCOM on the PS2. I laugh at these people because it just shows where this country truly is.
Embassy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
i never noticed any racial or really offensive language..of course u wud get the occassional curse every now and then after someone was rammed into a wall..but thats all i witnessed....
Rappateng @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Hasn't been updated in a while but:
http://www.assboxlive.com
copa @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Can you avoid some of this nonsense by playing in the Pro zone? It seems like most of the jackasses would migrate to Underground.
cameron @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Microsoft could make having a talking indicator always on screen a requirement for all Xbox Live titles. It is a requirement on the players menu but not in-game.
That said I think people would complain if their game was continually spammed with talking indicators.
Nick A. @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
People who bitch and wine about racism need to get a life. Most people on life just say the crap to trash talk and get on peoples nerves. I don't really care what people say to me cause I can turn my sound off or just mute everyone (from the guide), even if you can't see whos trash talking you can eventually figure it out by going one by one on the guide. The only talking that bothers me are assholes that don't work as a team and little kids who wine in my ear. Call me gay, call me some racial term, talk trash to my face, just don't force everyone to be politcally correct and censor the fun that goes on while your semi-anonymous on Xbox Live. If they took away racism they would take away every other form of trash talk and the voice part of live would be really boring to use.
Nick A. @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I meant Xbox Live when I said Life :-p whoops
oboreruhito @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Hey, if anyone can fix racism, Microsoft should be able to.
Good job calling MS out on that, 'stiq. Good job.
Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
I got driven away from Xbox Live because of the 13 year old kids who want to show us what swear word they learned today. I hope the little kids dont buy Ghost Recon 3 when I do.
psxndc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Nick A. BS. Racism is not "ok" when it's part of trash talk. Actually, when you marginalize it, that just shows that you are complacent about it and passively endorse it.
To everyone else (because Nick's comments are so repulsive I can't talk to him any longer), the part that ruins it is that games like Halo penalize you for quitting when the other players are being asses. Having a thin skin is not the issue. When I play games, I play to have fun. Some 11 year old punk singing songs the entire time at the top of his lungs, or some dude dropping the n-word or constantly making homophobic remarks is not fun.
As for making a friends list and playing only with them, at best only 2 of my friends are online at any given time, mainly because I refuse to play before 12 AM EST since that's when all the bitches described above have gone to bed. Unfortunately I'm stuck with 5 others who may or may not be numskulls if I want to play on line.
peace,
psxndc
PS Add me to your friends list to play alongside (team slayer) someone that will NEVER do the crap above. Say you're from joystiq.
TimMarman @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
This has been a problem ... but I can always just ignore them or take off the mic. My biggest complaint with PGR3 is how the race countdown stops every time someone joins or leaves. I've waited minutes and minutes for the thing as people join and leave :)
Sean @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
"They're just words, and if they bother you, find a different server/match."
They don't bother me.. they annoy the shit out of me. And any game that annoys me doesn't deserve my attention.
Rob X @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
"Actually, when you marginalize it, that just shows that you are complacent about it and passively endorse it."
Talk about a slippery slope fallacy.
No, letting it bother you just means the trolls know how to push your buttons. Not letting it bother you and going on with the game, means the trolls have nothing to feed off of and so they shut up eventually.
James @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Maybe Microsoft would let you selectively block whoever you think is annoying you in a future update.
A similar feature is available in Battlefield 2 where you can turn off voice comm with any specific players on your squad or anyone for that fact in the game.
Yohan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Yup, the Live Experience can be pretty bad. It can also be great, but usually it's somewhere in the middle.
Unlike Mario Kart DS which is almost always a blast.
Anyway, after a week of 360 I decided to sell it on eBay. And I was easily able to sell my used system for more than I paid for it new! I think now's the time to get out, before the stores are full of boxes collecting dust (february?).
p-diddy @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
"No, letting it bother you just means the trolls know how to push your buttons. Not letting it bother you and going on with the game, means the trolls have nothing to feed off of and so they shut up eventually"
Rob, I never ever respond to any of it because, yes, it feeds the trolls. I just sit there and grit my teet and ignore it, leaving feedback afterwards. But the damage is done. They've ruined the game for me and it's no longer fun.
If I were playing a match for a half hour or an hour, you would probably be right, they would shut up eventually. But in Halo, where matches are 12 minutes long, ignoring it doesn't work and just ruins each 12 minute session. This especially includes jackasses that play team slayer only to de-level and scream the entire time. The whole reason I like team slayer in the first place is because players tend to want to get more out of the game, working together. When one of my teammates is a complete wanker or shouting racial slurs the whole time, it ruins it for everyone.
As for stating that my statement about being complacent about racism is a slippery slope fallacy, I disagree. By tolerating racism, what are you doing? You are acknowledging that that behavior is at least somewhat acceptable. To me, it's not. Ever.
-psxndc-
Sorry for my bad english @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
with voice, it become more difficult and unfair for hearnig impaired who don't have speech skill and problem to listen.
You go hell, M$!
Nate @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
WTF,
Yeah, see, I think that's the thing people are complaining about.
It's considered bad form by thinking people to use 'GAY' as a perjorative.
I'm not, by the way.
Cheers!
agree @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
yea racism gets old fast. whats worse is that it rarely comes from the mouth of an adult. I really dont know about the future of the world when your 13 year old is racist bastard.
todd @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Been a big issue wih other xbox live games. Usually fixed in updates.
Wajima @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Excellent point and well said. The people who think you should stop "whining" are invariably the ones screaming the "N" word or faggot every two seconds and they don't want you to take away their fun. I don't mind if a bunch of idiots get together and scream that crap all day long I just don't want to be a part of it. All you were asking for is a way to identify the person so you could leave feedback which would let others know and which would also hopefully prevent you from being matched up with them again. I'm with you and I hope for a PGR3 update very soon.
Ian @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Regardless of the content of the game and a users preference to use foul language, no one should be forced to put up with racism in or out of a video game. While you may be convinced that being able to drop the F-bomb to total strangers is your constitutional right, intolerance and hatred only leads to problems and potentially to violence.
Despite his lack of compassion Nick A. does make a valid point about mature games. They should be regulated by the purchasers (parents) of the games, however last time I checked many online games are not rated Mature. It is only a matter of time before these games are restricted and regulated if we cannot police ourselves. We do not need to give lawyers and politicians any more fodder to use against gamers or the industry. I understand it is a very fine line for MS and other companies to walk in terms of forcing a standard upon a broad spectrum of gamers in an online setting, but until they give us better tools to deal with the problem they are as much at fault as the individual.
In the mean time it is important for all gamers to speak out and stand against racism, poor hardware/software, and anything else that is wrong in this industry/hobby/obsession. If MS, EA,Sony, or the ESRB is doing something you disagree with they won't change if you don't write,call,email your issues to them. Screaming that Bungie or MS or LIVE "is the SUXOR" online or in a message board(except for Joystiq and its affiliates of course) does nothing unless you act. Use Skype or some other program to chat with your friends or forego LIVE for a free program to play online. While your at it, show that the stereotypes are wrong and stand for something more than acting stupid online and embarrassing yourself.
Sense @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Does this happen mostly in a particular gamer zone? (Hardcore, Underground, etc.) Because I was hoping that would weed out some of the dicks online.
Liquid Rhino @ Dec 18th 2005 9:06PM
Actually, in PGR3, when you go to Options and select 'Show Names above Cars - ON' it'll show the names on Live. This may help quell some of the gripes here. (Warning: the names display gets quite annoying during a race, especially during in-car view)
Stupidly enough though, if you turn it off, it still shows the single player career's bots' names.