ATI calls PS3 GPU "unrefined"
by Ross Miller 
{ Dec 30th 2005 at 3:15PM }
ATI and Nvidia, quite
understandably, have a pretty bitter
rivalry, stemming from the competitive graphics card market in the realm of PCs. While IBM can laugh all the way to the
bank, having a hand or two in the creation of all 3 next-gen console's CPUs, ATI and Nvidia are having to share the
console market. ATI are providing GPUs for the Xbox 360 and Revolution, while Nvidia can claim the coveted PlayStation
3 as its own.It probably comes as no surprise, then, that the European Developers Relations Manager for ATI, Richard Huddy, is taking some technical jabs at Sony's next-generation serving (again). Huddy recalls how, "as [he] understands it," Sony went to Nvidia very late in the development cycle and they delivered was a modified 7800GTX - which "is a pretty powerful piece of hardware," he notes, "but not very elegant...Xbox 360 technology is likely to outperform PlayStation 3 technology by a pretty healthy margin in the long run." Remember, though, this is coming from a competitor of the PS3's GPU maker, so he's just a tad biased - and since Nvidia is probably never going to be critical of its own product, don't expect them to side with ATI on this matter.
This is just one of many competing firms, others being the console makers and disc formats, using the console launches to take jabs at one another. Do you ever wonder if consoles launches are just excuses for companies to vent?
[Thanks, SuicideNinja]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Nij @ Dec 30th 2005 3:31PM
Yeah, when it comes to elegance ATI is hard to beat. I've never had drivers cause BSODs and game crashes with quite as much class and debonair demeanor as the Catalysts, that's for sure.
Jeff @ Dec 30th 2005 3:48PM
"so he's just a tad bias"
The word is "biased." This drives me crazy when I see it. "Bias" is a noun, not an adjective.
Evil Inside @ Dec 30th 2005 4:01PM
Wasn't the same thing said about the last(current) generation of consoles? PS2 was supposedly hard to code for while Xbox was easier, due to it's PC-like architecture. This was why there were so many PC-Xbox ports and so many FPS titles on Xbox.
I thought Sony was supposed to make the PS3 easier to develop for?
I'd like to know what game developers think about the PS3(besides the ones who already have been gushing over it's raw horse power).
J Low @ Dec 30th 2005 4:03PM
I'll believe comparison shots when I see them. Until then this is all just marketing spin. Still, getting a 7800GTX -caliber chip in a home console that assumingly costs less than $400 is pretty cool.
Ross Miller @ Dec 30th 2005 4:03PM
Sorry, Jeff, just a typo - it's fixed.
recklessgemini @ Dec 30th 2005 4:03PM
ATI pwns nVidia cuz nVidia sucks and cuz ATI is teh rawest!!!@#$!$#%!132 (graficard f@nboi)
and soon to be
D-DVD kills BD cuz D-DVD's has like 200Terrabytes more space then BD. BD sucks ass! (discformat fanboys)
pennywise969 @ Dec 30th 2005 4:12PM
Down, Jeff! *Shakes a can of pennies*
I heard that Sony thinks that the PS3 will be better than the 360, and the Microsoft thinks the 360 is better than the PS3 will be.
Alkemist @ Dec 30th 2005 4:26PM
Everyone knows that Apples are better than Oranges.
Only Orange fanboys think otherwise.
Ross Miller @ Dec 30th 2005 4:35PM
Alkemist, that rocks my socks off.
F@nboi translation: 0MG dat r0xx0r5 my s0xx0r5!!!!111!1
bearattack79 @ Dec 30th 2005 4:39PM
Look... Most of the next generation games are going to be on both platforms. So the power on both of these machines is amazing. The only thing that sets them apart is games exclusive to the particular system. Its like pepsi vs coke. Halo vs killzone Splinter cell Vs Metal gear. Lets get on with it. (nintendo excluded, its a toy)
recklessgemini @ Dec 30th 2005 4:55PM
last time I checked SplinterCell was not an exclusive game.
Bart Lee @ Dec 30th 2005 5:43PM
Don't forget the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 will be a major differentiator. A lot of people bought the PS2 because they could use it as a DVD player too. I have a 360. It's nice, but the DVD playback sucks big time. If the PS3 serves as a halfway decent BD player, my 360 will be going up for sale next winter.
bd @ Dec 30th 2005 5:56PM
Of course this is true. That's why Kameo looks so next-gen and MGS4 looks like an N64 game. Besides, why is ATI worried about the "long run" anyway? Xbox 360 will endure 4 years like its predecessor.
Momus @ Dec 30th 2005 6:05PM
So long as the power supply isn't the size of two babies and hotter than eight.
Also, look forward to faulty Blu-Ray Drives.
And graphics that happen to have been overhyped from day one.
"Oh, we made a few changes to the hardware. Expect a souped-up GameCube."
Sony Fanbabies all over the world will be all like "Well, at least I still have that sandwich to look forward to."
But by then I will have eaten their sandwiches. Sorry, should've labeled the bag.
Woo, tangent…
Cyberclaws @ Dec 30th 2005 6:05PM
And don't think calling Nintendo's system a 'toy' hurts them. If it keeps their profits coming in, you can call it whatever you like.
Isaac @ Dec 30th 2005 6:51PM
"2. "so he's just a tad bias"
The word is "biased." This drives me crazy when I see it. "Bias" is a noun, not an adjective.
Posted at 3:48PM on Dec 30th 2005 by Jeff"
Jeff, bias can be used as an adjective as well. Check http://dictionary.com or any other dictionary source.
bias adj.
Slanting or diagonal; oblique:Ex. a bias fold.
Kye @ Dec 30th 2005 7:32PM
Graphics shamphics (obviously a ninty fan lol)
I asked for a DS for my birthday last week, and the person who was offering said "Are you sure you don't want a PSP?" 'Yes' i said...
The reason why - gameplay!
After trying the PSP i yawned and walked away within a few minutes.
After trying my nephews DS, I seriously contemplated stealing it.
Keep your graphics talk, I'll spend my cold hard cash on what counts - FUN!
Leto @ Dec 30th 2005 7:39PM
Too bad for ATI that tech websites are calling Nvidia's 7800 the new graphics king. Bye ATI http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/
Daniel @ Dec 30th 2005 9:12PM
*16. "2. "so he's just a tad bias"
The word is "biased." This drives me crazy when I see it. "Bias" is a noun, not an adjective.
Posted at 3:48PM on Dec 30th 2005 by Jeff"
Jeff, bias can be used as an adjective as well. Check http://dictionary.com or any other dictionary source.
bias adj.
Slanting or diagonal; oblique:Ex. a bias fold.*
That's completely out of context.
funkonaut @ Dec 30th 2005 9:16PM
I must say, ATI cards suck ass, mainly because their drivers are piss poor. NVIDIA has some amazing programmers because their drivers are of an exponentially higher quality. People are already starting to complain about the glitchy GPU in the 360...
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=78145
Isaac @ Dec 30th 2005 9:40PM
** *16. "2. "so he's just a tad bias"
The word is "biased." This drives me crazy when I see it. "Bias" is a noun, not an adjective.
Posted at 3:48PM on Dec 30th 2005 by Jeff"
Jeff, bias can be used as an adjective as well. Check http://dictionary.com or any other dictionary source.
bias adj.
Slanting or diagonal; oblique:Ex. a bias fold.*
That's completely out of context.**
How is that out of context? Bias can be used as a noun, adjective, or a transitive verb. Like I said, go check any dictionary source and I will be right. It is still correct to say: "He's just a tad bias" because bias can be used as an adjective.
illacorp @ Dec 30th 2005 9:41PM
"Too bad for ATI that tech websites are calling Nvidia's 7800 the new graphics king. Bye ATI http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/"
Too bad youre a n00b. x1800xt has the most bandwidth os any card alive!! http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131
Radeon X1800XT 625 MHz 1.5 GHz 256-bit 48GB/s 16 9.0c
GeForce7800GTX 430 MHz 1.2 GHz 256-bit 38.4GB/s 24 9.0c
There is no bye ATI, there is just who has the better price to perfomance ratio at the moment. Anything else is idiotic, and i wont have to listen to you anymore once school returns from xmas break!lol
Charlie Lesoine @ Dec 30th 2005 9:50PM
"...is a pretty powerful piece of hardware, but not very elegant" What the hell is this guy talking about? what does he mean by elegant? I don't see how this word can equate to anything meaningful when talking about graphics chips. It's like saying a firehose isnt elegant. It doesnt need to be. It just needs to be wide enough to put out big fires. I mean power is power. Right? Cars don't go faster just because they have leather interiors.
Donkey Konga @ Dec 30th 2005 10:14PM
Kameo, someone correct me if I'm wrong, was a Gamecube title that was ported to the Xbox after Microsoft purchased Rare, but then held for the introduction of the 360. I don't think anyone would consider it next generation by a long shot, but it is what it is, a decent platformer on a console not really known for having great platform games.
It'll probably be several months to a year before you see titles on the 360 that are written specifically for the 360, and really start to exploit what it can do.
Shizlanski @ Dec 30th 2005 10:29PM
Um really, who cares about spelling and grammar etc. This is the internet.
Anyway, back on topic, of course ATI will say this about the PS3 chip but nVidia or Sony will say the same about the ATI chips. We'll have to wait for the PS3's launch. When we do see it, PS3 fan boys will be either laughing or trying to make up good comebacks to the Xbox'ers who are laughing louder.
PSPfan @ Dec 30th 2005 10:32PM
ATI vs Nvidia
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26720
Dr. A @ Dec 30th 2005 10:33PM
I prefer ATI over NVidia although I respect both companies.
But now ATI just looks cocky and is taking a risk saying something like that - premature statements that can't be confirmed since no one really knows the full capabilities of the PS3.
Anyway, Xbox360 is a serious piece of hardware but im really looking forward to the PS3 8)
Sergio @ Dec 30th 2005 10:53PM
22. illacorp: The newer GeForce 7800 GTX 512 is actually better than the Radeon X1800 XT in most games (Radeon is still better in COD2 Demo -- and that's it).
Also, comparing speeds alone doesn't always mean a processor is better. If you believe that, then you don't know anything about processors.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1885977,00.asp
n3rrd @ Dec 30th 2005 10:58PM
Bart Lee,
I do not believe that there are any similarities between the PS2 boasting DVD playback and the PS3 boasting BRD playback. The reason for that is that DVD was "launched" in 1996, if I remember correctly. The PS2 was launched four years later; there was already an established DVD movie library to take advantage of and DVD players weren't affordable.
The PS3 is close to being the first consumer market BRD player and it does not have a BRD movie library to support at the moment. They are jumping the gun by boasting a technology that is worthless at the moment. There isn't anything to use it with. The BRD issue isn't a selling point for me.
There is no problem with ATI's hardware, and it is usually quite capable. ATI's issue is their programmers, as stated by funkonaut.
Spartacus @ Dec 30th 2005 11:01PM
By "elegant", ATI is referring to the design, more specifically, efficiency...
EXAMPLE:
454ci V8 naturally aspirated
vs.
Turbocharged, DOHC, 16v 128ci I4
Though the V8 has nearly 4x more cubic inches (4x more fuel in chamber=larger, more powerful explosion), the 4-banger will produce just as much horsepower (if not MORE) due to it's superior "elegant" design.
ATI has broken new ground with the 360's Xenos GPU with unified shader pipelines, which ATI believes (for good reason) is a far more efficient and "elegant" chip design. In theory, the Xenos could be up to 60% more effecient than a chip of similar specs using dual pipelines. Real world performance is often different than "paper performance", but time will tell.
Either way, ATI is proud of their new technology and nVidia will be using it on their next generation of video cards. For now though, they must downplay the advantage until they have a version of their own.
I will agree that nVidia drivers are far superior to ATI drivers (which is why I use nVidia on my PC), but it's not hard to argue that ATI HARDWARE is superior to nVidia's. In the case of consoles however, drivers are much less critical as only ONE hardware setup needs to be optimized for and will remain constant throughout the life of the GPU. Furthermore, Microsoft is quite experienced in software, and since they own both the CPU and GPU for the 360, they would've taken considerable time developing their own tools and software to make the system function properly, this would've included hardware drivers. So the equation: BEST GPU HARDWARE MANUFACTURER + VERY EXPERIENCED SOFTWARE AND DRIVER COMPANY = GREAT HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE wouldn't be too far out of the question.
NZT @ Dec 31st 2005 1:20AM
Well the comparison in my opinion between the Nvidia 7800 and the ATI Xbox GPU shouldn't be a fair comparison. Since the 7800 was created for PC use and then it was ported for the PS3. However the ATI GPU for the 360 was a custom job created for the 360. ATI started with an idea how to create a GPU for the 360 while Nvidia was creating a way to use the 7800 with the PS3. That's what I believe Richard Huddy is trying to get at how it seems to not be a custom job. In the end who cares Xbox and the PS3 seem impressive. I've always been an Xbox supporter since I was one of the many who had a non working DVD drive with my PS2. Sony wanted me to pay to money to fix the drive. However i'm not bias...or is is biased. Both systems have features I like and no matter how powerful either system will be in a year I'll be able to build a better PC. So in the end it comes down to what titles I want to enjoy not who's hardware is better. The DS doesn't have better hardware over the PSP however due to the titles the DS sold over 5 million units. I'll get the PS3 and I have the 360 just so I don't become a bias/biased gamer.
Mark in Austin @ Dec 31st 2005 2:12AM
As long as Sony's PS3 costs a TON to make and loses them tons of money on each unit sold, I'm a happy man. Let Sony take a biiiig hit into the red this time 'round. MS too. Arrogant bastards.
"My pee-pee is bigger than yours! Nyah-nyah!"
Dasutin @ Dec 31st 2005 2:34AM
Yeah I agree, companies just need to stop whining.
http://www.dasutin.com
DayC @ Dec 31st 2005 7:06AM
**20. I must say, ATI cards suck ass, mainly because their drivers are piss poor. NVIDIA has some amazing programmers because their drivers are of an exponentially higher quality. People are already starting to complain about the glitchy GPU in the 360...**
That looks like a glitch in a poorly made game rather than an ATI graphics card, don't get me wrong i love Nvidia cards, infact i have one in my pc right now (Nvidia Geforce fx 5200) but I have tested a few different ATI cards in different pc's all of them being up to the same standard as nvidia or better in their specific catagories of the graphics card market, what would make a console's graphics card different to a pc's graphics card? Personally i think you're just out to appear as a hardcore Sony fan and support everything that Sony bring to the stage (the utterly crap Playstation 2)
**10. Look... Most of the next generation games are going to be on both platforms. So the power on both of these machines is amazing. The only thing that sets them apart is games exclusive to the particular system. Its like pepsi vs coke. Halo vs killzone Splinter cell Vs Metal gear. Lets get on with it. (nintendo excluded, its a toy)**
Please mate DO NOT compare Halo to Killzone, everyone knew that Killzone's multiplay mode had to be more in depth and fun than Halo's and it wasn't so the game was a complete failure, it's status was then lowered even more by the fact it was on a PS2 and it's graphics were shoddy.
Wayne Parkin @ Dec 31st 2005 7:40AM
"13. Of course this is true. That's why Kameo looks so next-gen and MGS4 looks like an N64 game. Besides, why is ATI worried about the "long run" anyway? Xbox 360 will endure 4 years like its predecessor."
Have you not seen the MGS4 trailer? It's not pre-rendered and looks amazing compared to Kameo. Your comments are confusing. I actually think Kameo looks more like an XBOX game.
Monkey @ Dec 31st 2005 9:38AM
There is one factor so often overlooked when comparing ATI to nVidia. Speed is important, but what really counts is the quality of the image. Most people are dedicated to either one or the other, and so tend not to see the difference for themselves, and the big websites all care about arbitrary numbers from fps and 3dsmax test scores. That said, when I see ATI rendering in game compared to nVidia, it's far higher quality. The way in which their antialiasing and other effects work is simply superior. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fanboy; right now the only ATI chips I own are in my trusty gamecube, since I simply can't afford a decent ATI card and nVidia is better for the price lately.
Mephy @ Dec 31st 2005 10:12AM
Momus (#14), that Kids in the Hall reference you used totally made me snicker.
This totally runs in cycles. ATi makes an amazing graphics chip, NVidia outdoes them, then ATi outdoes them... the only problem is, neither of them really outdoes the other by any major leaps and bounds, making it such a "what's the point" scenario.
So really, we should all just shrug our shoulders over this.
weaszel @ Dec 31st 2005 1:01PM
I think we need a script that automatically erases grammar-Nazi posts.
MightyMech @ Dec 31st 2005 4:52PM
Well lets just say the Nintendo Revolution is next gen in terms of gameplay, so it has both the 360 and PS3 beat there. As for Microsoft they rushed the 360 to get ahead, but it put them behind both Nintendo and Sony. Sony is doing the right thing by launching PS3 in 2006 true next gen, so they can get any glitches fixed. Xbox 360 is so last year if know what mean.
Put it this way, Nintendo shows you what direction consoles should go in, Sony PS3 shows you how it should be done, and Microsoft Xbox 360 shows you pure example of what happens when you rush things.Microsoft should've taken their time and put out a quality 360 just one not two. But UPs to Sony and Microsoft though. Nintendo has no competition they're in a leauge of their own. Point Blank there's nothing else to say so stop babbling and support who you like.
badbob001 @ Dec 31st 2005 5:56PM
"The xbox360 is a pretty powerful piece of hardware but not very shiny...the PS3 is likely to outshine the xbox360 by a pretty healthy margin in the long run... because silver is easier to clean than white."
Shagi @ Dec 31st 2005 7:09PM
So now that last gen is almost gone can we actually decide which console looked the best last generation?
For LOOKS ALONE I think it goes:
Xbox
Gamecube
PS2
Anyone disagree? Im not talking about gameplay, gameplay would probably go:
Gamecube
PS2
Xbox
But Im biased towards the xbox cause i have a good PC and nothing really ever came out exclusivly for the xbox but Halo2...The PS2 only really had about 5 games I wanted to play but so did the gamecube and I was more excited about the gamecube.
40s @ Dec 31st 2005 9:16PM
"the RSX can process 24 pixels with its 24 pipelines while an Xbox 360 powered with ATI's Xenos, R500 chip can do double that, 48 pixels per clock."
source: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27463
So as you can see, from the pixel stand point the ATI trumps the RSX. The ATI does double what the Nivdia can do per clock. The only thing that may redeem Nvidia's chip is if they manage to double the clock speed that the 360's chip employs, and that has about a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of happening by spring 2006.
S_SLY @ Jan 1st 2006 7:16AM
All these next gen consoles really are not worth jack if they are not flexed on a HDTV. Joe public seems to be completly unaware of this fact, and i feel it may lead to alot of disappointment. I mean who would run there "Cutting Edge" nVidia or ATI card at 680x480 res and consider the graphics to be any good, i know i wouldnt. Pixel Shader 2 and 3 aint gonna look that much differant from Pixel Shader 1 technologies at such low res, neither is improved anti aliasing, surely.
Bob @ Jan 1st 2006 1:22PM
Why do people get into this pointless console wars?? What do you owe to Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo? Look what this fanboy said: "MGS4 looks like an N64 game." Here's another: "Oh, we made a few changes to the hardware. Expect a souped-up GameCube." These fanboys are so ridiculous that it's actually funny to read, although very sad.
bearattack79 @ Jan 3rd 2006 7:22AM
I think Nostrodamus has the 360 for a win.
recklessgemini @ Jan 4th 2006 1:12PM
Bob, you hit it right in on the head.
God damn are these folks annoying.
louis @ Jan 5th 2006 1:52PM
Look at the history of sony when VHS game out sony had a format witch was like VHS but better qulity and cheaper but the company who made vhs saturated the market with players ect. there were no alicated rights to the player so any one could make the VHS players were with sonys formats they were only aload to make the players this ment sony lost the format war there fight the same war with the same tactics and they will lose it's just greed and thats wjy i bought an xbox360 sony will perish.
louis @ Jan 5th 2006 1:53PM
Look at the history of sony when VHS game out sony had a format witch was like VHS but better qulity and cheaper but the company who made vhs saturated the market with players ect. there were no alicated rights to the player so any one could make the VHS players were with sonys formats they were only aload to make the players this ment sony lost the format war there fight the same war with the same tactics and they will lose it's just greed and thats wHyi bought an xbox360 sony will perish.