What happens when Apple
speculation and video game speculation meet: platform wars of biblical proportions! Under speculation here is whether
or not Apple has any interest in reentering the console gaming arena with the expected relaunch of their diminutive Mac
mini.
- Apple in the News
proposed that a redesigned Mac mini could "advance over the game market, a market that Microsoft is trying so
fiercely to conquer. With a new mac mini including a killer graphics board, Apple could relatively easily attract a
large number of game producing companies."
- Our blogeagues over at TUAW responded saying, "Apple hasn't been
interested in being in the gaming console market for more than a decade" referring to 1995s ill-fated Apple/Bandai
game console, the Pippin. "Apple doesn't need to be in the
gaming console market to succeed in creating a successful media center product."
- Cathode Tan offered
their initial proposal of this very thing from February '05, and a further rebuttal of TUAW's post. They explain:
why despite the failure of the Pippin, Apple still has its eyes on the game industry; why ports are necessary for
success; and why Apple's attempts need not mirror Microsoft and Sony's war of attrition, but rather Nintendo's struggle
for innovation. They also explain why Apple should be considering an entry into the console market: the Xbox can stream
video, music, has iPod support, plays games, and is cheaper than a Mac mini; living room boxes should play games; and
Apple already appeals to a younger demographic.
Until a new Mac mini is announced (next
Monday?) this debate will rage on all across the Internets. We're going
to stay out of this debate (we have families you know), but I will say one thing... what if Apple has a hand in
Nintendo's Revolution (think Microsoft and the Dreamcast)? The system already looks like it was designed by
Cupertino... discuss.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Conrad Quilty-Harper @ Jan 3rd 2006 1:51PM
Just a little bit of history here: the GameCube's CPU was a slightly modified IBM G3 processor.
Conspiracy theories aside, I don't see how Nintendo and Apple would work together on this. Whilst the Revolution will undoubtably be an excellent games machine, and a Mac mini media centre would undoubtably be brilliant at showing media, its hard to see how they'd link together.
MacAttack @ Jan 3rd 2006 1:56PM
Wow that was just blow everyones mind inside out, imagine a 4th competetor, obviously one of the elders would have to throw in the towel, who would it be?
gob @ Jan 3rd 2006 1:58PM
_If_ Apple were to enter the video game market, I don't think they'd try to compete on pure power against Xbox 360 and PS3. They'd probably create something akin to Xbox Live Arcade, featuring simple, addictive, easily-downloadable games that would appeal to the casual gamers. There's a lot of innovative Mac shareware that would be perfect for this kind of endeavour.
Doubt they'd actually do it though. At least this year. They've got their hands full managing the Intel transition.
Josh @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:05PM
1. Mini form factor
2. Required Mini functionality (hard drive)
3. Mini Price
I don't know about you, but I don't see those 3 things adding up to "high performance gaming platform." Increase processor performance and 3D performance a ton (both would be required in order to compete at all), and you end up with cooling requirements that cannot be solved in a box the size of the Mini's, especially when that box also holds a hard drive.
C. Grant @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:20PM
Conrad: come on, replace everything that says Windows Media Center required on the Xbox 360, with Mac mini required on the Revolution and you have yourselves a hit! Chances, hmmmmmmm... about one in a trillion, fine! I just want someone to play nice with my Macs! Not TiVo, not 360. What does a Mac geek have to do around here!?
Mike @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:28PM
They won't make a vido console because thay have no idea how this market works and they're too small and too poor to compete with the big three.
Mike Street @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:32PM
THat's a cute idea and all but I don't see it really happening. Apple hasn't been successful in attracting the gaming audience. Apple should stick to making Ipods. But how many Ipods and variations on the Ipod can you make before you'll have to come up with a new revenue stream. I could see The Ipod doing a gaming PMD with downloadable games.
coolkamio @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:35PM
@Josh
Well, Josh, the new mac mini will have a dual core Yonah at 1,66ghz..
Probably, not as powerful as the xbox 360, but enough..
Apple could make a special version of the mac mini for gaming..
But I don't think it's likely Apple enters in the gaming market now..
Is possible for Apple to make a Mac Os X Leopard including a new api similar to directx, something like "CoreGaming" or more than an api, a platform..
Where you insert the game disc, and starts playing, without installations, like a game console...
Anyway, it's simply not possible for Apple to produce a mac mini with the same hardware capabilities as the xbox 360/playstation 3 for a low price..
(It could be higher priced than the xbox360/playstation3, because it's a computer+game console, but not too high priced)..
Microsoft and Sony subsidizes the console price by licensing development kits and taking a part on every game sold...
Apple could do the same, but if they do, there will be normal games using opengl (like today) competing with games made for the CoreGaming platform wich will be higher priced because developer will have to pay the licenses..
There could be another route, like a deal with Nintendo, so their games will just run in every Mac trough rosetta, but i don't think rosetta will be powerful enough.. (I have a developer transition kit, and i don't think rosetta in it's current form could emulate Nintendo Gamecube games, but there is much room for improvements..)
Dralt @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:55PM
It's obvious.
Apple saw the light selling songs online.
They figured they would sell videos.
The iPod Video has its place in the market, but it's a small market.
Now, introduce a device that will connect to your 50" HDTV and allow you to download HD video materials over IP, and you have a good chance to steal food from the mouth of networks and publishing companies alike.
Since gamers are early adopters with disposable income, you would give this device some gaming features.
Mike Brauner @ Jan 3rd 2006 2:56PM
Apple may be a lot of things but too poor? I don't think so.
Apple currently enjoys a market capitalization of somewhere in the neighborhood of $US 60 billion and has in excess of $US 2 Billion in free cash flow to work with. Sony, By comparison, has a market capitalization of $US 40 billion with more free cash ($10 Billion).. but a significanly larger product footprint to support. Nintendo is much smaller than either. Not to mention that Apple has a much better consumer appeal than Microsoft - probably even better than "xbox".
So the question isn't if apple could enter the market - they certainly could - but why would they? Microsoft has proven that superior hardware specs (xbox vs PS2), excellent first party titles (Halo, Forza, PGR), a far superior online service and a 3-12 month next gen launch advantage (360 v. PS3) still result in crippling financial losses. Apple would be better suited to sit this round out and let one of the three next-gen consoles go the way of the Dreamcast.
It seems that at any given point the industry can only really support 2 - perhaps 3 - home consoles, never 4.
Brain @ Jan 3rd 2006 3:22PM
#10 You're wrong about Nintendo. They had 6 billion is US cash on hand and just recently bought back a lot of shares of stock with it.
ano| @ Jan 3rd 2006 3:29PM
if that is the case, I wont bother with Nintendo. That would mean no consoles for me this generation...
PS3: cause of root-kit case (and not confirmed, but I dont like their new patent)
Xbox: is owned by MS and I dont like their marketing methods!
Greg @ Jan 3rd 2006 3:38PM
Why should have the apple media center special gaming capabilities? I mean why people measure gaming capabilities in million texels and polygons? I hardly give a sh*t about it. Just give me an apple media center, running OSX and will be happy to play Bomberman online! (Kill Monty deathmatch anyone?) Look at one of the most mentioned game on the 360: Geometry Wars. An ibook could do that... Are there any bluetooth game controllers out there?
Pablo @ Jan 3rd 2006 4:09PM
The Nintendo Revolution is said to have a videogames "itunes" store of sorts where you can buy Nintendo classics for cheap. That would be perfect for the Mac Mini to have as well - all Macs actually - have iTunes start selling classic games redone to run on MAC OS. SWEET!
superzapper @ Jan 3rd 2006 4:59PM
It's not even worth discussion,Apple are not making a game machine.So the dumbass speculation is a waste of time.
Guslav @ Jan 3rd 2006 5:15PM
oooh...a gamePOD!
JohnnyM @ Jan 3rd 2006 5:16PM
All I Know is that If they were to make a Gaming Console it would be Sleek White and horribly overpriced in contrst to the pwer it packs and all the mac heads will sing its praies as an alternative to the 360 and New "switch" campaigns will be rolled out with %300 more Stoned teenagers taling about how much of a "bummer" Xbox Live is.
John @ Jan 3rd 2006 5:54PM
I think a system like the MacMini with a Custom Emulator and then iTunes selling Roms like Starroms or GameTap would be great. Not a huge investment into gaming but it will be cool for people like me who has a HDTV, MythTV on a 1GHz P3 and run XMame for my games.
I running a few legal roms from StarRoms during parties and people go nuts on the machine. Plus they freak on the EyeToy and DDR stuff too.
I also have a PS2 and a P4 for my serious gaming needs.
Thatedeguy @ Jan 3rd 2006 5:57PM
We began speculating on Apple's Gaming console future some time ago. We're glad it's still going.
http://www.supergeekblog.com/?p=46
matthew House @ Jan 3rd 2006 6:08PM
Someone got to it before me but I'll reiterate:
Apple is roughly in the same financial ballpark as Sony and *far* larger than Nintendo in terms of market cap. So, yeah, money is not an issue should they decide to get in on games.
The real question is...why the heck not?
I reject the idea that Apple would have to drastically alter the Mac Mini to compete in this arena. Nintendo has made it clear that they have no intention of trying to match the PS3 or XBox 360 for sheer horsepower. Why would Apple have to?
Since Microsoft Media Center PCs sell for 1000 and up, why couldn't Apple market a similar device for 499 and sell it? Of course they could. Add a better graphics card to the Mini (though not the drastic upgrade some seem to imply), a 'games' menu item to Front Row and they would be good to go.
It might even help game development for the Mac. Apple could even whip out a stylish-but-overpriced line of game controllers and accessories to beef up profits.
And if the 'games' idea uttely failed, no one would care. The 'device' would be a media player/organizer first and a game machine second.
I guess I just don't see why, given that Sony and MS are selling consoles which are game machines first and content providers second, that Apple couldn't reverse the formula and be successful with it.
rip @ Jan 3rd 2006 6:14PM
I don't think people want an all in one device. There are plenty of all in one tv/dvd/vcrs around and they sell squat. Why? Because its the jack of all trades, master of none thing. People still buy separates for audio and video. Why wouldn't they do it with htpc and game consoles? Most tv's have plenty of inputs for multiple devices.
Yes it would be fairly easy for Apple to create a console. But what's the point? Microsoft has lost billions on the xbox, Sega almost disappeared, and Nintendo would be on its knees without handhelds.
Will Apple make an htpc-type device? Probably. Something that will do music, movies and tv. And still be a computer, so you can surf, email, etc. And it will be better than the craptacular mce. It will probably cost more than a 360 or ps3. But it will be able to do movies, music, and tv seemlessly. And have games available for it, since there are games available for the Mac(not much but there are still some good ones).
Point is, they don't need to make a console. If they make a htpc that is popular, the game companies will make games for it.
And to Mike, post #6. Please, get a clue. Other than Microsoft, Apple is bigger than any other game company. Bigger than Sony, Nintendo, EA, or anyone else you can think of. Apple is worth about 60 billion and they have over 8 billion in CASH.
Adam @ Jan 3rd 2006 6:55PM
Apple wouldn't be able to afford it.
Juan Carlos @ Jan 3rd 2006 7:53PM
Apple could obviously make a gaming console. That's not really a question. Would it be powerful or not? I have no idea, though I'd wager it'd be souped up Xbox.
Could Apple afford to make a console? Probably. They can probably afford to leak the initial amount of money neccesary to make it in the console business.
The question is really whether or not they'll have good games. Apple doesn't really have any first party development capabilities. Could they afford to buy a company that could make games for their consoles? Yes, but it's unlikely that they could, and unlikely they would buy one. Would third party developers back Apple? Probably not. With development costs being so high for the next generation, I'd imagine developing for an unproven system from an unproven gaming company would take the back burner.
When Microsoft enetered the industry they had experience with gaming through PC's. With industry development costs being so high now, and Apple's unproven track record I doubt they'd suceed, and I think they know that.
tranism @ Jan 3rd 2006 7:59PM
^^^ Couldn't afford it? You're kidding right? Apple's market capitalization is over 60 billions dollars. They have over 6 billion dollars in free cash and is the ONLY computer company with NO DEBT.
I would say Apple could more than afford it. They have the technology, they have the partners, they have the money, and they def. have access to music and video media to cross pollinate. Despite all that, I doubt Apple would try to make another attempt at gaming.
ill trooper @ Jan 3rd 2006 8:31PM
I'm a hard-core Apple fan and I hope this won't happen - why try to create a new console and new software-standard? Sounds like a lot of resources and a lot of effort in a year when we effectively have 3 consoles launching - the 360 is only now starting to show up in stores. Not where Apple would like to grow market share - they want to continue to nuture growth in OSX use and become known as the 'media center' digital-hub company.
While game blogs might think 'console,' I think the rest of the world is speculating they will release a Mac Mini media center device using the new 'Yonah' dual cores, and in fact, if you wanted to install Windows on it for a dual-boot system, you could have a fairly tight little gaming PC that would probably hold up well against the average gaming PC, and by having it hooked up to an HDTV, you could run a lower res than the average PC gamer lusts after - therefore allowing the thing to feel pretty snappy compared to trying to push the higher res and AA on a higher-res computer monitor. Allow the user to decide if they want to create a 'game console' out of the new Mac Mini - more people are excited about a media center with Apple's butter-smooth software engineering.
This seems more likely to me than a gaming device like the Pippin.
Josh @ Jan 3rd 2006 8:39PM
Anyone who says MCE is "craptacular" obviously has never used it.
Roomba @ Jan 3rd 2006 8:58PM
so who will make the chip? intel?
Scott @ Jan 3rd 2006 11:16PM
Why in the world is there all of this discussion of "market capitalization" or who is making the processor or how fast it is, etc.
The main question is: why would Apple market a machine as a gaming console when they can't even attract developers to their system?
Soon Hui Vchai @ Jan 4th 2006 1:08AM
You are all wrong!
With the new mini, Apple will be entering the toaster market. The mini is already shaped to match a piece of wonderbread and with higher graphics and processor power, it will finally produce enough heat for delicious toast.
Now I will never have to get up while playing WoW! Well, maybe to get more bread and replace liquids.
Gamer XoverY @ Jan 4th 2006 2:28AM
Funny even befor stumbling on to this article, I was thinking the same thing (an Apple PC/Game Console). I mean it would have the follwing features:
1)Run MAC OS (yeah!! even your grandmama can use it)
2)It's not windows (double yeah!!!)
3)I would store all of you music and Tv shows for easy acces
4)It would beat MS and Sony to the Punch by Delievery Movies on Demand thru the Itunes store(this is going to happen this year just watch)
5)it would work perfectly with you brand new IGPod. You would be able to download games for you IGpod thru the Itunes store (again throwing a wrench in both MS SOny's plan, as well as preventing Valves 'steam from taking over the world, Yikes!)
6)Can we say AVio (excuse me I ment TIVO)
7)Can we say Aebtv (excuse me again I ment MSN Webtv thing,BTW I used to own the OG Ver.)
8)and the basics, DVD player,Audio player,PC Video Phone, etc.
But their is one more thing.............(hehe heres looking at you Steve J)
This Dam Thing would be to expensive, considering apple makes money on the Hardware.
So lets just think happy thoughts about what could of been and move on with Reality, MS and Sony are evil so
take your pick on one and then make sure to pick up a Nintendo Revolution when its released (only 149 good deal).
WTF=Waffles Taste Funny (Or just use you imagination thats what its their for hehe)
Joe @ Jan 4th 2006 4:09AM
Comparing Sony and Microsoft's current financial situation with Nintendo is a bit misleading. You're talking about two companies with multiple departments and standing them next to a company that only deals in selling systems and games. It's been a while since I heard what Sony and Microsoft had in their gaming department but it wasnt quite what Nintendo had. I think Sony had something like 4 billion while Microsoft had 3 billion. I could be wrong, but comparing Nintendo's bank account with Sony's, Apple's, and Microsoft's would be like comparing a vending machine to a restaurant.
Jim williams @ Jan 4th 2006 8:06AM
This site gave me a $750 Prepaid Visa for doing two free trial offers I did Core Control and Video Professer and got my Visa in 10 days here the site
http://www.productestingreviews.com/xbox360.htm
This site gave me a $750 Prepaid Visa for doing two free trial offers I did Core Control and Video Professer and got my Visa in 10 days here the site
http://www.productestingreviews.com/xbox360.htm
eddy @ Jan 4th 2006 8:14AM
1) Many customers do not want their computers to record and play tv-shows, so they are looking for a specialistic device. Many customers probably feel the same way about games and game consoles.
Apple is getting into other retail channels with the iPod and these are channels where people shop for something that works right out of the box.
On the other hand, with their own chain of retail stores, Apple can also sell addional devices.
2) A lot of game developers have made complaints about how the optimization they did for Intel has to be done again for a different processor and Apple is moving to the processor that games are already optimized for (!while the rest of the gaming platforms is moving in the other direction!).
3) As was mentioned earlier, it would help Apple to create a new revenue stream.
4) People will notice a new Apple branded device, so when done right, it will sell.
5) Apple buys a *lot* of flash memory. I think some of that is going into the Macs to make them turn on and off "instantly". Compared to the Pippin, which booted like a Mac, this will make new Macs feel less like using a computer. The same technology would help any device that is based on the Macintosh architecture, such as video streamers and gameconsoles.
IMO, there are reasons enough to see that the potential is there. Personally, I am not a gamer, but it would be interesting to see how a new device, optimized for gaming, would take off.
Jesse @ Jan 4th 2006 12:10PM
It's very simple: Nintendo and Apple merge, creating a videogame/electronics giant that will be able to conquer sony in its two biggest markets, plus stand toe-to-toe with microsoft. everyone usually laughs when I propose this, but imagine the possibility. The two companies have alot in common, when it comes to business strategies and their new ways of design and marketing. Of course, all speculation, but still, a cool idea in my mind...
Christian @ Jan 5th 2006 2:02AM
Look, Apple is not entering the Console Game market. Of course they can afford to do it, but they'd lose a lot of money. The 360 and the PS3 are losing money on every console, we know this. Obviously Apple would have to go with a Revolution philosophy, but then why would anybody buy an Apple over the Rev? So then we look at if they did the Home Media center thing and then added a game console feature to it. Well, now we have a computer than can do all the Home media things and can play games. So it will cost as much (or more probably) as a PS3/360 and have the graphics capabilities of a Revolution (or probably less).
And where are the games coming from it. We have seen that a 4th player in the console market never lasts, so somebody would need to go. Now it looks like that could be the 360 (crossing fingers) but if Apple joined the market the support for them would be abysmal. The only way Apple could have done it is if the Revolution tried to be the graphical monster that the PS3 is. Then, Apple could have taken the simple/innovative way (which would have been very convincing like we have seen with OSX and the iPod).
One final paradox: Apple will not enter the console market because they would not succeed if they did. However, if they did enter the market they would succeed.
(Meaning if Apple did enter the market it would be because Jobs saw the magical way to be successful in it, that mere mortals like us could never comprehend until he showed us the light.)