PS3 doubts growing

1. cashcow
2. Creates a "buzz" and marketing frenzy when little to nothing is said

There is one reason that Sony is using blu-ray, it's a format war, Sony doesn't want to lose this one like they lost the last one (anyone remember Betamax?) and they're putting all their eggs in one basket with pushing the bluray format onto all gamers with the PS3, it's an excellent strategy for getting your format out on the market and getting the leap on format, however it's us the gamers that are paying to become pawns of one of Sony's wars. (I WILL buy a PS3 since I'm a hardcore MGS fan, however I'd much rather save a few hundred bucks and get a DVD based PS3 than having Sony shove a bluray drive down my throat just so I can play MGS)

The reason why Sony is staying quiet about the PS3 is because the PS2 is a cashcow and is the greatest source of cashflow for the company at the moment. Nintendo kept quiet about the Super Nintendo for the same reasons.

If Sony was announcing PS3 details, PS2 sales would drop. Sony wants that PS2 cashcow mooing as long as possible.

do these people not remember how quiet sony stayed about the ps2 until 2 weeks before it launched in japan? we didn't have any playable demos or even a release date until then. why would we expect anything different this time around? it worked for them last time, when they ran sega out of the hardware business and totally dominated the other 2 systems

While PS2 sales do sound like a good idea, you'd think they'd want to get the info out there, let people know "Yes, it's coming soon!" so that they dont get bored and go buy an Xbox 360. For a large number of people. 1 next gen console will be the limit, and Sony doesn't want to lose that customer to Microsoft.

Did he just suggest that Apple was making a videogame system? Where did that come from?

March 2007
$599.

No doubt they have to be taking a play from Apple's handbook, seeing as though Apple has done nearly everything right to take Sony's market share away via the iPod & iTunes. That said, I'm not convinced that Sony will make the previously stated launch windown. But it wouldn't shock me if they did.

"March 2007 $599"

That's a dumb guess...

Ideally the best time to release it (at least in the US) is during the September/October/November time period. Releasing it in the Spring would be (I think) a bad idea b/c people are still recovering from Christmas gift purchases.

Either a late summer or fall release time frame would be smarter.

"Sony's market share away via the iPod & iTunes"

That wasn't too hard b/c I don't think Sony ever really had any real marketshare in the MP3 player market. Apple took the marketshare away from Creative, iRiver, etc.

Just a little correction: Sega ran Sega out of the Hardware business.

Sony was only there, doing their own thing(Cheap DVD player~!).

With Microsoft dropping the ball with the 360..Halo 3 will be the only thing keeping Sony from total domination next gen at the beginning(And of course the Revolution)

i plan on purchasing an Xbox 360 soon. i also plan on purchasing a PS3, so Sony's marketing habits will not affect my decision.

however, i agree that i, along with many other consumers, are growing a bit anxious and nervous about the fate of the PS3 at this point. theburn16(#2)has a great point about this being the way Sony has done things in the past, but i still think it would do them good to go ahead and be a little less vague and mysterious about their intentions, especially when the planned launch is as close as they've hinted at.

i just want SOMETHING. a concrete launch.. a totally real, no bullshit demo.. an announcement of the finalized design model, so we at least no FOR SURE what everything will definately look like.

ANY of those would do it for me. ANY of those things would fully put to rest my growing doubts and trembling confidence in Sony's plans for the upcoming generation.

Yes the reason they are staying quiet is beacause this thing is not even comming out in 2006 (In North America). Like I said before, Spring will become fall, fall will become Winter, Winter will become Spring 2007. And 599.99 will be the lost price.

This could backfire on Sony when they miss their shipdate and MS finally has a supply of 360s out there.

Oh yea...for all you people who saying $1800 for the cheapest Blu-Ray player, you really need to read this article:

"Even the cheapest new Blu-Ray DVD players will retail for about $1,000"

The $1,000 Blu-Ray player they speak of is by Samsung and was shown at CES.

"do these people not remember how quiet sony stayed about the ps2 until 2 weeks before it launched in japan? we didn't have any playable demos or even a release date until then."

I seem to remember the PS2 launch games as being mostly crap and thats why they did not show anything. I also seem to remember that the most recent Sony launch, the PSP, had demos and hands on videos all over the web for months before the system ever came out.
Just face it it may be a while for the PS3.

There's no 360 pressure because Microsoft's only been able to manufacture trivial amounts. (600,000 in almost 2 months is a miniscule quantity. PS2 outsold that in 2 days both in japan and in US. Dreamcast outsold that within a week and a half, as did the XBox 1.0).

PS2 is a cash cow on software, and amazingly the console is still selling strong. That's the primary reason to keep quiet about PS2. Note how XBOX1 sales have plunged since 360's release.

The other thing is that it's a lot more impressive to have a big demo with lots to show, instead of releasing a short demo here and another there.

But we won't have to wait much longer... Playstation Conference in February should be the event.

Keep in mind people, for every gamer who reads joystiq and other gaming related blogs, there are 100 gamers who don't. We tend to place far too much importance on what our opinion of sony/ms/nintendo is. Most gamers dont know or care about specific launch dates/hardware specs/etc. They don't know the 360 has a multicore CPU or that the PS3 uses the cell. They know what they see on commercials or in their friends/older brothers basement. They know what they see on the shelves at walmart and target.

Whether or not sony releases info that only we would care about has little to do with the PS3's future success. Others are right in saying Sony doesn't want to rush the PS2 out the door. It took several years for the PS2 to get profitable and they dont want to lose a single day of profitability. Thats partially why MS rushed the 360 to launch. MS wanted to cut this generation short. Afterall, the current gen was a financial loser for MS and big profits for sony. The sooner it ended, the better for MS and the worse for sony.
I think that with the production problems the 360 is having, sony can delay the launch even longer. My bet is that they don't want to let MS get more than about a 3 million unit lead on them. Initially, that meant they needed to get the PS3 out in the early spring, but now its looking like MS won't hit 3 million nearly as quickly as everyone thought due to whatever is plaguing their manufacturing process.

@#7
"That wasn't too hard b/c I don't think Sony ever really had any real marketshare in the MP3 player market. Apple took the marketshare away from Creative, iRiver, etc."

I don't mean just MP3's but music in general. Sony practically created portable music players (Walkman, total domination) and towered over their competitors in the CD era (Discman). And of course, the iTunes store has totally dominated Sony's online music store (Connect? something like that).

So sure, Sony never dominated MP3 sales by a long shot, but they sure did dominate portable music players for a long time until Apple came along. Obviously they are playing catch up at this point, and they are clearly stealing from/trying to out-innovate Apple.

I just picture Sony engineers frantically searching for features they can afford to shed from their console to get costs down, product out the door. They're all like "Master, the numbers don't add up! Nobody's buying our hype! People are starting to see through Your Majesty's glorious bullshitting!"

Meanwhile Kutaragi's eyeing the Revo's remote and going "Those insolent whelps adore that cursed pointer! Don't they realize I sired the greatest gaming machine this industry has ever known?!"

All gasps from the engineers. One pipes up: "B-but, Your Highness… y-You said it wasn't just meant for ga—" but is disintegrated by Kutaragi's shear smarm before he can finish. The rest of them? They need no further incentive.

And that's what they're all up to right now. Dilligently Pouring more smoke and installing further mirrors into their magic act until that controller starts to feel comfortable.

And we'll all eat it up.

Just like we did for the PS2.

But then our Blu-Ray drives will grind our Blu-Ray discs into a fine Blu powder, and spit it out the many vents this thing is going to need to just start up. We will hate Sony for trying to repeat the same success it had over a decade ago. A success that they don't yet realize was won only because their competitors failed.

It's true: the PS1 succeeded because the N64 failed.

The PS2 succeeded because the GameCube failed.

What do I mean by failed? I mean by refusing to accept that carts are dead as far as console gaming goes. I mean a tall rectangular prism (it's not a real cube, you see) is not attractive, and that it can only fit 8cm discs isn't a plus. Alienating third-party support and leaning toward kid-friendly software didn't help, neither.

Sony's crook is wobbly and they wouldn't know how to defend their marketshare if someone else just up and gave consumers what they want.

Case in point: iPod vs. Walkmen. As stated above.

You don't win and entire industry back with gimmickry and flimsy hardware. The hardware has to serve the software has to serve the user, not the other way around.

PS Gamer - "in Feb. you will see some pretty cool things from Sony I can assure you that...Well since the date has not yet been told to the general public, I'll just say its between the 12th - 18th Around then." – SCEA Employee
Cory Barlog – “big conference next month” “I will be able to talk about the game I working on pretty soon” – Sony SM Employee
Seb Downie – "Not long now for some news. Not long now - Guerrilla Game tester"

February is the month for PS3 my friends, just sit back and relax.

Tom:

Ahh I see...I didn't think out it in that way.

This is a great news, I hope Sony delays this thing. That way I have more time for the Visa to recover from my xbox360, then Ill be ready for PS3. This will be the first time I own two consoles, till then Ill keep putting my Slot Technician paychecks in the bank. I just hope the two consoles dont trash the living room if they get in a fight.

I'm enjoyiung the PS2 at this moment and I know there are cool games coming my way. Meanwhile Sony just go ahead and perfectorize the PS3!!!

PS3 won't come out for a long time, but who cares? The present 360 games aren't must have, and if you are a graphics whore, at the moment they don't look so next-gen (as they should); even if they did, you can't get a 360! Even if you could, would you risk yourself on being a beta-tester?

Right now, I'm having lots of fun with some of my unfinished PS2 and NGC games, and the games I'm still waiting for the most are on these two systems, not on PS3, 360 or Revolution. Hell, there are even some games I have that I have finished, but haven't fully squeezed their whole gaming hours potential.

If I was an Xbox owner, I would probably be busy with Morrowind, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden Black, and Fable The Lost Chapters, until some of the "must have" titles (Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Oblivion, Enchant Arm, Armored Core, Ninja Gaiden 2, Killer Instinct 3, Blast Corps 2, Gears of War, Halo 3, Resident Evil 5, Too Human, Dead Rising and what not) come out for 360; by then, maybe a price drop would have taken effect.

The point is this. Just a few months ago, Sony was shouting PS3 specs and launch dates to the heavens. After that they stopped. This may just be a ploy, but they eerily stopped talking about the PSX and the PS2 HDD before their launch. Both launched late without many of the promised features. There is some precedence for this.

Sony faces a lot challenges between now and Spring 2006, which incidentially begins in March.

There are no mass consumer Blu-Ray players available for sale in the US market.

There are no Blu-Ray movies or media available in the US market.

There's confunsion between HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

DVD was clearly superior to VHS, and a much more compact version of Laser disc. If you don't have an HD TV, are there any great benefits to the new foramts that would compel you to make the purchase? Are any of those who already own a library really go to re-buy what they already own if HD DVD and Blu-Ray are backwards compatible?

Will the PS3 be among the first Blu-Ray players available? Initially, Blu-Ray players are reported to cost over $1000 which is typical for new technology. Will the PS3 seriously undercut this? And if so, why would any other manufacturer even sell a Blu-Ray player when Sony is under-cutting them?

The PS3 buzz is lukewarm at the moment. We need to start seeing playable demos. And until a price is introduced, I haven't made a decision on whether or not I'm going to purchase a PS3. Just because it's a Sony is not reason enough.

Yep! Apple definantly capitalizes on the mysterious thing. And Sony is just as cool. I'm glad they've been on the hush about PS3. It'll launch when it's ready to launch. Who cares they're not tellin' when. I prefer the surprise element anyway.

"Right now, I'm having lots of fun with some of my unfinished PS2 and NGC games, and the games I'm still waiting for the most are on these two systems"

Amen to that...I've been playing my Gamecube more lately b/c now that the games are so cheap I can afford to buy 2 games and not feel guilty. Hell I can even buy 3 games if Gamestop or EB is having their buy 2 get one 3 sale they have every now and then.

I think launch date and demos become increasingly more important as the launch price goes up. Giving consumers a choice is important to Sonys success. If consumers have to wait to long, and have to pay to much Sony could be playing with fire. Seriously, besides for blu-ray which is bad for the industry imo.. what feature of the ps3 *clearly* outdoes the 360 and warrants the extra cash?

That alone warrants this as a hot topic, and comparing Sony to Apple is irrelevant. Apple has a long standing tradition of dependable product unveilings bi-annually and really has only seen wide success with it's ipod platform. While both the ps3 and ipod are consumer electronics, no one has been able to come up with an ipod killer but microsoft has a great ps3 killer available now.

-Ric

You can't really call the 360 a "PS3 Killer" b/c nothing has really been publicly shown yet.

If Blu-Ray does end up being the winning standard, then that will be the PS3's biggest draw. If Blu-ray doesn't become the winning standard, it will still be a good thing b/c developers won't need to worry about running out of space in the future (like with the 360's DVDs.)

Also...despite what people like us say ("us" being the hardcore gamers)...the average person was pretty impressed with the PS1 & PS2. If the PS3 has the titles that those people like, then they will again buy the PS3 b/c it has the games they like. Regardless of how you feel about Sony, they won't have a problem getting games developed for their system by some of the biggest developers.

#17 Momus:

Well said. I loved the behind the scenes glimpse. I can just see that happening now. Thanks for the laugh.

Maybe they want to see what Nintendo does. Their ego is probably too big for that but it's a possibility. Personally I think they aren't near finishing the PS3 I think the earliest possible release in Japan is Christmas time.

I just have a message for bd who wrote:

"PS3 won't come out for a long time, but who cares? The present 360 games aren't must have, and if you are a graphics whore, at the moment they don't look so next-gen (as they should); even if they did, you can't get a 360! Even if you could, would you risk yourself on being a beta-tester?"


Listen, I bought a Xbox360 and I love it. The games for it are great too. Another thing the graphics look "next-gen". Believe me! It's in HD, and i'm enjoying the graphics a lot. I hope PS3 does ship late, so I can save up the necessary funds to purchase it. I hope "sour grapes", didn't factor into your decision to resort to childish-name callin (i.e. graphics whore). I do respect what your viewpoint.

Question: Does blueray have anything to do with games or what? I am asking because I hear that space wont be an issue with Ps3 games VS 360's DVD format. I was under the impression that blueray was strictly a movie thing.

IF its only a movie thing, I think that HD-DVD and blueray wont really be a big deal untill the masses catch on. That may take a few years, and by then were looking at the next, next generation.

Ask some of the common folk out there about Blueray and HDDVD and they look at you funny. Most people think all you have to do is buy an HDTV to get HDTV.

"Listen, I bought a Xbox360 and I love it."

That's great, and I hope you keep enjoying it.

"The games for it are great too."

Well, there would have to be a lot of people agreeing with you on this (like more than half); then again, there might be some great games out there (like Condemned), but I don't find them as must haves. There are too few games; as in fighting games, DOA is the only one out there and is not so popular as many other fighting games, and let's not start with the lack of RPGs.

"Another thing the graphics look "next-gen". Believe me! It's in HD, and i'm enjoying the graphics a lot."

Well, I believe that you like them! I also believe that most people are not satisfied. Look at the 1up Peter Moore interview, it has a link where you can "grade" how next-gen each game looks, and sincerely, the results are disappointing. Look for yourself.

"I hope PS3 does ship late, so I can save up the necessary funds to purchase it."

I agree on that one.

"I hope "sour grapes", didn't factor into your decision to resort to childish-name callin (i.e. graphics whore). I do respect what your viewpoint."

Thanks for that, and I didn't mean to sound "childish", it was just an adjective. I didn't know which other words to use.

What I meant was, for the majority of people, the Xbox 360 doesn't have a must have game right now, and the PS2, Cube and even the Xbox have a lot of life left. Check the games I'm expecting the most for 2006:

1. Zelda TP
2. Kingdom Hearts 2
3. Final Fantasy 12

I hope Zelda TP becomes indeed "the best Zelda ever".

"Question: Does blueray have anything to do with games or what?"

Blu-ray *could* have something to do with games. There will be PS3 BD-ROMs, but I don't think we will see many games on Blu-ray until the middle or end of the PS3's lifespan.

for a console with,in reality, the same capabilities that was finished (hardware-wise) in december, TA HELL ARE WE WAITING FOR? another KZ video? or is sony the one waiting and hoping for the false hype they created to die down?

Just like High-def games need powerful hardware, those high-def games will require alot more storage space.

...before all you people start saying, well they can use multiple DVDs just like with the PSOne days. HOWEVER, that was only b/c that was the only choice. Most games nowadays on the Xbox and PS2 are DVDs. Rather then restrict developers with size limitations on the storage medium, they can choose either DVD or Blu-ray for the games. I guarantee that games for the PS3 will go beyond the 9GB mark.

Also, people shouldn't have to purchase a new TV or a new surround sound system to fully enjoy their new games. The whole point of "games" is to have fun and enjoy them...not to charge up your credit card so you can (supposidly) enjoy them more.

There is one rumor that has been buried but never resolved: that the Blu-Ray drives at such an early state will have more space but lower data transfer speeds than DVD drives. This wouldn't be important for movies, but if Sony releases a 1x Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 that doesn't match the performance of the 360's 12x DVD drive, there may be serious performance issues or horrible load times.

bearattack79,

Blu-Ray is a next-gen media storage format that in my opinion is anti-consumer and pro-corporation. DVD is a hi def digital format and the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray is hardly noticeable unless you have an extremely expensive and high quality television.

Sony essentially wants everyone to forsake their existing dvd format movie collections and games for blu-ray media so that they can get a license fee off of every blu-ray product made. They feel that since they helped usher in cd technology (ps1) and dvd technology (ps2) that they should determine the markets direction. It is true that a benefit of Blu-Ray is more storage space (54 gigs I believe as opposed to 9 gigs on dvd) but you will find many arguements out there that the market doesn't need, and won't ever need bigger optical disks.

It is widely believed that dvd-9 is that last true media format before everything moves towards online distribution a la music sales on iTunes. (Essentially digital rights management "DRM" is the next big thing)

Sony hopes otherwise with Blu-Ray, and Microsoft has put it's eggs in two baskets counting on X-box live to be an eventual distribution point or HD-DVD disks to tide everyone over.

HD-DVD is another upcoming media format (by toshiba I think?) that has around 32 gigs of storage space I believe and allows users to freely copy the contents of disks to any device for portable use via a DRM technology. Bill Gates is a big proponent of portability, and believes HD-DVD is the best choice if the choice has to be made.

Regardless I'd rather just have a dvd drive in my ps3, and have them spending all their time on making a service similar to x-box live for the ps3. But then again I'm not smoking the same crack they are. =P

I buy all consoles, but have to say in all honesty that I love the online connectivity of the 360 and have never had as much fun connecting with my friends so easily to play games as I do on the 360. It's a great console and probably will be my favorite out of the next generation. In all honesty the original xbox was my least favorite last generation.

-Ric

I can't remember if it was finalized yet, but (I think) Sony said the PS3 would be using a 2x Blu-ray drive.

"35. There is one rumor that has been buried but never resolved: that the Blu-Ray drives at such an early state will have more space but lower data transfer speeds than DVD drives. This wouldn't be important for movies, but if Sony releases a 1x Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 that doesn't match the performance of the 360's 12x DVD drive, there may be serious performance issues or horrible load times."

Blu-ray movies need "1.5X" speed to play, so the PS3 Blu-ray will be at least a 2X. This means that for every second that 360 will take for loading times, the PS3 will take 1.75 seconds.

How did the PSOne usher in CD technology? CD's were around LOOOONG before the PSOne came around and were also an accepted medium.

DVD's on the other hand weren't really an established medium until the PS2 came out.

Also just b/c Bill Gates has an opinion something doesn't mean it is the end-all-be-all for everything and that it will come true.

Sony isn't saying much, but I don't think many people are fooled into thinking this is good thing. You see, Sony is often a "tell all" company that shows their product as soon as they can and wants to tell you all about it, and *why* it is better than everyone else. They have done that, and they have spent their hype. They aren't saying anything quite possibly because there isn't anything else to say. If there was, wouldn't Ken be out there spreading the word? I mean, maybe this is just hubris on Sony's part, but they seem to be ignoring the Xbox 360, which could take off once production problems are fixed. Sure, the 360 has its share of problems, but don't think for a moment that the PS3 will be perfect.
I see Sony as trying to emulate Nintendo, or at least *look* like they are. Nintendo, however, has a tight grasp on suggesting what we ponder about their consoles. How will two screens be used? What will the Rev controller look like? How will the Virtual Console work? All of these questions are carefully posed by Nintendo, so that there are people postulating on them and driving interest. Sony TELLS us what to think. They TELL us Blu-Ray will be fantastic, they TELL us that HD isn't Hi enough. They TELL us that the Cell processor is the best thing since sliced bread. And we, naturally, have a question: when will these things come to pass, and what must we do to experience them? Unfortunately for Sony, these questions are really worded, "When is this thing gonna launch, and is it going to be more than $500?"

The difference between Sony's suspense and that employed by Apple or Nintendo is that Sony is raising the wrong questions about their product.

Ric:

You will also be able to rip movies from Blu-ray discs to your hard drive.

I don't think that this will be the "last format war", and I think that there will always be a need for physical media, unless flash memory surpasses optical media in storage, price, reliability, durability and size/storage ratio; it would be retarded to have to carry your bunch of flash memory sticks/drives around to download everything just because dumbass bill gates wants to capitalize from everything he sees fit. We will need a freaking reader at least for backwards compatibility.

I can't wait for Xbox III so they forget about adding backwards compatibility features again by not even adding a disc reader.

"According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps)."

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#1.7

"The reference data rate of DVD is 11.08 Mbps (million bits per second)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD

2x Blu-Ray = 72 Mbps
12x DVD = 132.96 Mbps

So it IS slower.

There is a big difference between the PS2 launch and the PS3 launch...

...blogs...

There wasn't the type of community reporting when the PS2 launched. Sony couldd control most of what the world saw/heard about their system. Now, the Internet takes any piece of untruth a company speaks and shouts it across the ether.

Sony will actually have to come out with a goodd product this time instead of pulling a fast one over the eyes of the public. Microsoft, unlike Sega, has deep pockets to keep up the fight. Nintendo isn't a year behind with a gamecube, they are launching at the same time with a Revolution. Blu-Ray aren't already a driving force like DVDs were and most HDTVs on the market won't work with the PS3 since they don't have HDMI inputs.

Times have changed. Sony won't be able to play the same game the 3rd time and have it work. This time they'll have to actually try.

SetupWeasel:

And who said "It IS NOT slower"?

Besides, both consoles are going to have massive loading times. It's likely that the Revolution will have less loading times than both.

"A success that they don't yet realize was won only because their competitors failed" - Momus talking about Sony

"It's true: the PS1 succeeded because the N64 failed.

The PS2 succeeded because the GameCube failed." - Momus

And why might these systems have failed I ask. Is it not true that success can only be shown through someone else's misfortune?

When you get a job, do you get it because someone else failed to get the job?

Did George W. Bush win because Kerry didn't?

Is Microsoft holding the most OS marketshare because Apple isn't?

Is Google becoming a massive internet giant because of Yahoo's lack of success?

Is Broadband getting more custumers because Dial-up is losing them?

Ok, I think everyone has heard enough, sorry, I just got bored and decided to show everyone how you suck at making points :P

P.S. I will own all three systems and allready own a 360 (which I love)

How is Blu-Ray more anti-consumer than HD DVD? They both have heavily restricive DRM, can output 1080i/p with HDMI only, and can only be copied to a computer in a "trusted environment" with on-board DRM chips. But these aren't actually the fault of Sony and Toshiba, it's just the film studios that impose these restrictions. Anyone is free to make an unrestricted HD DVD or Blu-Ray disc.