Big publishers embrace Xbox Live Arcade, promise original titles
by Vladimir Cole 
{ Jan 24th 2006 at 9:45PM }
Larry Hryb, Xbox
Live Director of Programming, interviewed Greg Canessa, the general manager of Xbox Live Arcade for his regular
podcast. The two spent a good deal of time discussing Xbox Live Arcade, during which Canessa said:
"As the business has grown, we now are swamped--completely swamped--with folks that want in Arcade, large publishers and small publishers alike .... the Capcoms, Namcos, Midways, Konamis, EAs--those types of guys were like, 'Yeah, maybe one or two titles.' Now they're coming out with us saying, 'oh, we wanna do 25 titles. We wanna do 20 titles. We're starting up a division to do arcade titles.' So we have a huge amount of opportunities from the large publishers. Not just back-catalog stuff... The retro stuff is part of it, but it's also new content they wanna develop for arcade..."
We've said it before, we'll say it again: Xbox Live Arcade is the best thing going for the Xbox 360 right now, and that's not some backhanded compliment. It's a truly fantastic service for gamers who know that quality comes in all forms, not just the latest title with a multi-million-dollar development budget. If big publishers are developing titles just for Xbox Live Arcade, gamers are in for a treat.
Just one important caveat: the Xbox Live Arcade party lasts only so long as Microsoft plays the gatekeeper role well. If the company softens its standards and starts to include mediocre titles for download, gamer trust and interest in the service will decline rapidly. So far, they're on the right path. Geometry Wars--that little $5.00 Xbox Live Arcade title that has surprised and delighted the majority of those who have given it a shot--still reigns as the top Xbox 360 title in our book.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dan Choi @ Jan 24th 2006 9:50PM
Capcoms, Namcos, Midways, and Konamis plus 20-25 titles each = crazy delicious! =) I'm lookin' forward to a whole lot of retro collections coming online for co-op/versus play.
jromz03 @ Jan 24th 2006 10:20PM
"Big publishers embrace Xbox Live Arcade, promise original titles"
Wait, wait. So both the interviewer and the interviewee are employed my MS?
As much as it is a promising area this interview is 100% biased. And as employees of MS, you can expect chest-beating "my thwang is bigger than yours. we are the greatest ever".
I'd rather hear it from the 3rd parties like Capcom (that SFII news was great), instead of them.
bandersnatch @ Jan 24th 2006 10:22PM
Looks promising but I wonder...
With the big publishers eyeing Xbox Live Arcade, will they saturate the marketplace pushing out the little indie guys were originally suppose to reap the most benefits from Xbox Live Arcade?
Mike Street @ Jan 24th 2006 10:26PM
I agree. Xbox Live Aracade is truely brilliant and where the industry needs to go with a lot of gaming. Still have the Halo's but have some simple stuff everyone can play.
Dano @ Jan 24th 2006 10:26PM
While this is all fine and dandy, it also foreshadows success for Nintendo's Virutual console. If Nintendo does infact, get Sega and other companies on board, we could be seeing an even more comprehensive Online Arcade. Except this one would have classic Nintendo titles. And people wouldn't have to pay massive amounts of cash to get access it
SlipstreamBRO @ Jan 24th 2006 10:50PM
I personally love the arcade and actually play those titles more than I do my store bought games. Also, I've bought twice as many arcade games as I have at the store or ordered online. It's exciting to see it be of interest to the big wigs as well.
My favorite has to be Wik though. GeomWars is great, but it gets a lil hard to see your guy for my taste. Of course I suck @ it, so that's prolly why....hehe
pr0cs @ Jan 24th 2006 11:33PM
"people wouldn't have to pay massive amounts of cash to get access it"
and then people wake up from their dream and realize we're talking about Nintendo who is king at nickel and dimeing whenever there is a buck to be made.
James @ Jan 25th 2006 12:06AM
Brand new tv. Brand new sound system. Brand new HD game system. And I'm playing Tetris....what went wrong?
bounch @ Jan 25th 2006 12:07AM
"And people wouldn't have to pay massive amounts of cash to get access it"
Why do people consider 50$ a year or *Gasp* 8$ for one month (that would let you download whatever in that time), or dare I say it - the free month trial? to access the arcade
as much as I dont see 50$ a YEAR a "massive amount"
I could agree if you mean the 360 itself.
then again, its not like you dont have to pay for a revolution console as well, albiet cheaper its still a lot of cash, and lord knows how much the games will cost (hopefully the best titles will not go over 10, if so I call blasphemy)
portnoy @ Jan 25th 2006 12:08AM
"and then people wake up from their dream and realize we're talking about Nintendo who is king at nickel and dimeing whenever there is a buck to be made."
You must be referring to the FREE online service they started. What? Free? Ever heard of it?
I would rather be nickeled and dimed occasionally by nintendo than be "hundred-dollared" as is usually the case with MS. Like the $100 they are overcharging for their premium bundle, or the $100 for a 13gig harddrive, etc, etc. Get a clue. Nintendo is the bargain console and has been for some time.
I can't wait until they re-open development for NES and SNES and we see new content for download for those platforms on the REV virtual console. Geometry wars is good but it can't hang with classic SNES baby!
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 12:23AM
"as much as I dont see 50$ a YEAR a "massive amount""
Its not the $50 a year.
Its the $700 for a so-so HDTV, $400 for the console, 5 games at $60 each, and THEN $50 per year. First year of ownership for a 360, assuming you ONLY buy 5 games, no accessories and download nothing? $1450. Yeah, thems some sweet ass nickles and dimes bitches. Nintendo Revolution console $150, 5 games at $40 each, your current TV works just fine and free online service puts your first year of ownership at $350. Oh no, now nintendo charges me $5 to download super mario brothers. I'm still like $1095 ahead. Yeah, nintendo is really ripping us off.
And dont even start with some bullshit about using your 360 on a regular TV. If you use it on a regular TV why even buy it? On a SDTV the graphics aint no better than a current xbox and the games are the same. The new controller aint worth $400.
mirobin @ Jan 25th 2006 1:15AM
Psstt ... hey troll, you only need a silver live membership to download games from live arcade. (silver membership is free if you're slow on the uptake)
Deth @ Jan 25th 2006 1:23AM
^ get real man!
150 for the rev? dont make me laugh.
40 dollar games? thats a good one. like nintendo is going to lower the price of games when people like you will pay any amount of money for their games.
5 dollar downloads i can believe, but with nintendos reputation and blind followers, i wouldnt doubt that NES games will be 10 bucks a piece.
As for the topic at hand- I think XBLA is great! I am more than a little worried that the market could get saturated with sub par games, but that is the beauty of the free demos.
If a game is great, why does tech matter? I thought that was nintendos mantra. Why blast MS for delivering great gameplay? hypocrites.
Bangbang... @ Jan 25th 2006 1:27AM
Its not the $50 a year.
Its the $700 for a so-so HDTV, $400 for the console, 5 games at $60 each, and THEN $50 per year. First year of ownership for a 360, assuming you ONLY buy 5 games, no accessories and download nothing? $1450. Yeah, thems some sweet ass nickles and dimes bitches. Nintendo Revolution console $150, 5 games at $40 each, your current TV works just fine and free online service puts your first year of ownership at $350. Oh no, now nintendo charges me $5 to download super mario brothers. I'm still like $1095 ahead. Yeah, nintendo is really ripping us off.
you my friend, are an idiot. HD gaming is very very over rated. I have a both a sdtv and an hdtv. I have played my 360 on both and this is the difference.
SDTV- garphics look next gen in every way. the detail is crazy and you can really see the the fine details of the game. In nba 2k6 i could clearly see the fibers in the players clothes. what also seem impressive for sdtv was the depth of field that was clearly visible.
HDTV- at default the console sets the hd to 720i. at this setting, the picture looks crisp and sharp. the very fine details are visible. by this I mean that in condemned you can see textures in the wall( mold dirt and moisture are clearly visible).
SO if you think that gaming suffers because you can't see dirt and grime on the wall then why buy a nintendo that doesnt even support hd. and why would a next gen revlution game cost the same as a game cube game. the console wont support hd but you must be a fool to think that the graphics wont make a big leap.
CrAzY American @ Jan 25th 2006 1:43AM
xboxless:
How much have you been paid to come and talk up Nintendo? You apparently don't even have an xbox (your name is what gives away your obviously biased ignorance). And just so you know, the 360 and ps3 will both work on "current TV works just fine"
I think xbl arcade will be a great thing for the system.
By the way, I noticed you said the system will cost $150. I was unaware that Nintendo made an announcement of how much the revo will cost. Same with the $40 games. Thanks for letting me know.
Shama Banks @ Jan 25th 2006 1:54AM
They can saturate it with whatever they want as far as I am concerened. You get to try all games before you buy them, so if it isn't good I won't buy it, and what I think is trash someone else may love it and vice versa. Sure Nintendo can do the same thing, and copy microsoft, that is there right and I hope they do, that just means more quality games for me to play.
And to sme of the xbox hater, I have already had HDTV for 3 years, and surround sound, so it didn't cost me 1500 as you suggest.
Actually I paid 3000 for my tv and 500 for surround sound. So I guess Microsoft really screwed me didn't they?
Art Guy @ Jan 25th 2006 2:07AM
"tickle me xboxless" must always have his computer monitor set to 640x480 rather than something higher since "the graphics aint no better" at higher resolutions. LOL. Even old PC games with the low res textures maps look leagues better at higher resolutions.
dsub @ Jan 25th 2006 3:07AM
"I would rather be nickeled and dimed occasionally by nintendo than be "hundred-dollared" as is usually the case with MS. Like the $100 they are overcharging for their premium bundle, or the $100 for a 13gig harddrive, etc, etc. Get a clue. Nintendo is the bargain console and has been for some time."
hahaha. because for $250 your going to get...a revolution, and a controller. What are you going to save all your virtual console games on? Memory Cards? a 1GB memory card is going to set you back AT LEAST $50 Flash memory is far from cheap when compared to HDD's and it suffers from a slower data transfer rate as well. That's for 1GB. So in order to have as much storage space as the $399 XBOX 360 bundle, you'd have to spend roughly $650 on memory cards. Not to mention the headset for online play, another $30. The DVD player add-on will set you back another $25-30. So in the end to get all the equivalent accessories you get with the 360 premium bundle you will need to spend about $960. Granted yes, the NES and SNES game files will not be very large, but the N64 ones will be for sure. Even if you were to just buy the system, a 1GB memory card, and a headset you've already reached $330, and you can't watch DVD's on it still. Get my point? Sure, we don't know the specifics yet, but i'd say it's a pretty safe bet that accessories will not be included.
The stuff that you get with the 360 premium bundle makes it totally worthwhile. Not to mention your getting far superior graphics, to those who care.
I'm not trashing nintendo, but simply pointing out that the revolution isn't going to be INSANELY cheaper like some of you guys make it out to be. As far as the online service goes...i'll be VERY surprised if nintendo pulls off an online service that runs as smoothly as xbox live. I do give them so much more credit than sony though for making it unified. I wish the best to the revo, and will most likely buy one.
dsub @ Jan 25th 2006 3:29AM
If you bought an HDTV solely for XBOX360, and are complaining that you are "upset" because of the lack of games to play, you have no right to complain, or are VERY picky. You do know that you can watch HDTV on that new TV right? Or perhaps watch movies on that fancy big TV maybe?
You are picky if you are one of these people who "only like racing games" or "only like fighting games" etc. If you only like one type of game and are upset about the lack of your genre on a brand new fucking console, then why did you buy it? Did you think 100 titles for your genre would magically appear on November 23rd? If RPG's is your thing...you knew there would be no RPG's on launch, so once again...why did you buy and not wait? The current line up of games right now is great. Condemned is awesome, PDZ is great fun co-op online, COD2 has an awesome single player, Madden 06 is great for when friends are over, so is DOA4.
This whole "you have to spend $1500 on an HDTV to get the full experience" shit is getting old. First off, 360 works and looks great on standard def. TV's. No you don't need to have a $500 home theater system either. These prices of $1500+ on a TV are coming from people who didn't even bother to research prices because they just want a cheap reason to trash the 360. Here's one for you...HDTV is an inevitable change! Yes, it does look even better on an HDTV. You hardly have to pay $1500 for a decent HDTV though. I bought a 30" Philips HDTV with a built in tuner, HDMI inputs for $600, hell they had a 26" HDTV for $450. A 30" unit is fine unless you like to sit 20 feet away from the the TV while playing games.
If you look at it as "full experience" meaning playing it on a 50" screen, then yes, your going to need $1500, but then technically that would be the case with any console...not just the 360, because you need a big TV for the full experience. The majority of gamers do not play on massive projection sets or plasma/LCD diplays. You play on good ol' Tube TV's. Like I said...30"...pretty big TV...$600, name brand, and they even have a better picture too.
CaptainBoosh @ Jan 25th 2006 4:16AM
For anyone saying that XBLA is the best thing on the system or even making it a worthwhile add-on, then you're a moron. Why? Because you paid $400 for a system to play flash based games you get on ANY PC for free. You're SUPPOSED to buy a $400 system for the HD games and awesomeness that ensues from amazing graphics and life-like games. XBLA by itself isn't stupid, but for it to actually be the talking point of a $400 system, give me a break.
It's the same as the PSP. The system's best games are Lumines, Midway Arcade Treasures, and now PQ. Games that are so basic they can be played on a GBA. Wow, looks like that $250 investment paid off bigtime to play games that don't require fancy graphics or a widescreen, the main selling points of the system. Don't get me wrong, the system is great for other things than games. Well, emulators are awesome too, just another reason to pay $250 for system, and at least $100 for memory to play games made more than a decade or 2 ago.
These are the same reasons why MS and Sony sometimes don't know what they are doing. They try to push the fancy new crap at you only to find people want the most basic easy thing available.
Everyone just stick to what they do know. Sony make console games, they're great there. PS2 = good.
MS, keep trying to put another PC in front of my TV. It's a great idea, just stop trying to pretend that's not what you're doing. It's a PC for the living room. And the original XBOX still had a lot of life left in it.
And Nintendo, you need to make more games. Their only problem is not doing more. If you don't believe me, how many people would like some more Zelda, or Super Smash, or Metroid, or convince more third parties for more games. That's why the stinking Gamecube is in the toilet. No good new games.
And for the person saying to buy a bunch of 1 GB flash card to equal and XBOX hard drive, you're an idiot too. How much do you think your game saves really take up on the HDD? Or even downloadable content like new maps etc.? It's there for other things besides game saves. So, on a system that only does games, why the hell would you need 20 GB worth of storage? For demos yes, but that is something being done on the PC's for years, just adding to the fact that MS is just putting another PC in your living room.
And how would Nintendo be copying if they announced the virtual console WAY before XBLA?
And for saying you can use the HDTV for other things, how do you like paying for that monthly cable bill to get, wait a minute, how many channels in HD? Wow, you can watch local news in HD, well that's freakin important. HD is important for movies, which are not being broadcast in true HD and won't be truly observable until HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.
Yeah, I'm ranting, but some poeple say some things they don't think about before typing.
coincidence @ Jan 25th 2006 5:34AM
read my point of vieww of HD+XBOX360
http://gxyz.blogspot.com/
and remember, your old xbox could display exactly the same resolution (europeans I know we couldn't) !!
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 8:48AM
*edited to appease the joystiq gods*
Art Guy, As usual, your post doesn't make sense. Do me the favor of actually reading mine before you respond please. You made my point for me with your uninformed response.
I said, "And dont even start with some bullshit
about using your 360 on a regular TV. If you use it on a regular TV why even buy it? On a SDTV the graphics aint no better than a current xbox and the games are the same." I never said the graphics aren't better at higher resolutions. Learn to read please.
Of course graphics are better at higher resolutions Art Guy. Is it that you didn't read or that you just autorespond as soon as someone talks bad about your lovely xbox? I said that the 360 graphics on a regular
TV are about the same as the regular xbox on a regular TV. And they are. Anyone who says they are still much better on SDTV, better not bash on the Rev for not supporting HD. Afterall if you get the same
graphical leap on SDTV, then who cares about HD. Why are you always saying silly things?
And dsub, you said, "What are you going
to save all your virtual console games on?" And then you went on a rant about memory cards that was too long and uninformed to
quote
Whats the deal? Are you ignoring the info joystiq posts on the Rev? The rev will have built in flash
memory as STANDARD. You dont have to get a premium bundle, unlike the 360, you won't need to pay extra to save games out of the box.
Its built in, no extra purchase necessary. As for EXTRA memory, if I want to buy a HD for the rev, I can. It has USB ports so I can buy a cheap external harddrive of MY CHOOSING. Unlike the 360s proprietary
drive that costs 10 times too much. MS DOESN"T GIVE YOU A CHOICE people!!!
I can get a nice 80 gig external HD for less than MS charges you for a 20 gig piece of crap. $100 for a 20 gig harddrive, are you crazy?
Even fanboys should see $100 for a harddrive is insane! And you say nintendo nickles and dimes.
And I would like to say I totally
agree with Captain Boosh. I think its hilarious some people paid $400 for a system to can play games like geometry wars in HD. Thats hilarious. Microsoft are genius. $400 so you can play cute little
cell phone style games on a TV. Yeah, the game looks good, but if you're not playing HD COD2, PGR3, Condemned, etc, WTF do you need to
spend $400 for? I mean, you could play geometry wars on the original xbox hardware if they would let you. Please make some sense people. Dont let the MS drones control your mouth as well as your wallets.
Jeremy Wright @ Jan 25th 2006 10:57AM
Personally I find it amusing that the same people who said "it's all about the gameplay" and "who cares about graphics" are mocking people for playing XLA games and really enjoying them.
I mean, of course I'm looking forward to some HD games. Really. But, I'd think that XLA being able to excite both consumers AND developers with this is huge.
After all, aren't these the same kinds of games we saw demo'd with the Revo controller? I mean BOWLING? C'mon.
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 11:23AM
"Personally I find it amusing that the same people who said "it's all about the gameplay" and "who cares about graphics" are mocking people for playing XLA games and really enjoying them."
The only people getting mocked are the people who were screaming about how important HD is before the 360 came out and are now having so much fun with these simpler games. These are the people who mocked the idea of the revolution and simpler games to begin with. Its like everyone woke up when they played an original game like geometry wars and said, "Hey, maybe HD versions of last gen games isn't all its cracked up to be, maybe I might like a new game even if its simple and could just as easily be played on almost any system".
So, people aren't ridiculing others for liking simple games, they are ridiculing others for making such a big deal about HD and then realizing that great games can be great whether or not they are HD. Thats all.
Personally, I think any success XLA has will simply vindicate the concept of the revo virtual console. The concepts are very similar and will lead us down much the same path.
portorikan @ Jan 25th 2006 11:35AM
I think coincidence is one of those spamming blog posters for some company.
Nick @ Jan 25th 2006 11:43AM
Ignoring all of your other ignorant comments and the ignorant comments of so many others who are posting here, xboxless, I'll point out two flaws in your logic.
1. Where did Nintendo confirm that you could hook up ANY external HD to the Rev? I ask because that's foolish from a technological standpoint; something even Nintendo shouldn't miss. You're just inviting hackers and warez loving kiddies to take your content and mess with it or distribute it if you just use any standard hard drive. They could format it with their own file system, but do you want to format a 100GB drive over USB? Enjoy that.
And before you bring it up, since I know you will, yes it's possible to get access to files on the Xbox 360 HD with a special cable and some specialized tools to read the file system. The point is that with the open "any HD" model, the barrier to entry is far lower - day one access. I doubt Nintendo wants to see their beloved Virtual Console games strewn all over the internet the day after launch.
2. You and a lot of other loving bashers keep going on about "buying a $400 system for free PC games." First off, I bought my 360 because it has games I want - now and in the future - so that's enough to justify the purchase for me. In addition to that, I get access to great mini-games that I can just jump into and have some fun with for a few minutes. Hell, most of the free TRIALS satisfy the arcade urge for me. Not everybody has the time every day to sit down and put a solid 3 hours into the latest multimillion dollar game; some people do have jobs you know.
Speaking of having jobs, paying $100-$150 more for a console doesn't make that console the most expensive electronic on the planet. Let's not even get into all of the features it allows me to have. They're not all gaming related, no; however, that doesn't make them any less useful as features. They're features I like and use and that, for me, justifies any cost over other consoles. You'll see the same thing with the PS3, it's going to be more expensive but some people will buy it and justify the cost because it'll play BR movies - something that's possibly important to them.
Oh, fiddlesticks, I'm going for a #3 too - I'm feelin' risky today.
3. I can play some of the arcade titles on my PC, you're right. However, I have a much more enjoyable experience sitting in my living room on my couch 8ft away from my TV with a wireless controller that feels very comfortable in my hands. Keyboards are awesome for typing emails, chatting, and posting on forums but I've never liked them much for playing games.
Also, did you know that I can play all of Nintendo's Virtual Console games on the PC? Guess what? I can play them on my PS2 and my Xbox as well. That's right; every single one of their games that will cost ($Rev Cost) + $5-$10+ a pop can be played for free on the PC. Does that make those games any less appealing on the Rev when it comes out? Not for me, I'll be buying the Rev and some of my old favorites to play on it - even though they're free on my PC.
Nick
Oh boy @ Jan 25th 2006 11:51AM
"Its the $700 for a so-so HDTV, $400 for the console, 5 games at $60 each, and THEN $50 per year. First year of ownership for a 360, assuming you ONLY buy 5 games, no accessories and download nothing? $1450."
Or 400$ for the console, you drooling moron. Nothing else is necessary, unless you don't already have an HDTV, and you can use it for other things than the 360.
Seriously, I don't own a 360 and won't until the next Halo release, but you're so desperate to attack the 360 that you're making shit up. It's sad.
TURKDAONE @ Jan 25th 2006 12:14PM
Well first off why are people saying that we are playing simple games on our 400$ dollar console, and making it seem like a big deal?
First off, I have a choice.Thats enough right there, but Ill go further.You see when m$ shipped this system, they said they would have intentions of releasing other games in the near future.
Theres your answer , dont be abn idiot!We bought this system for launch titles, but more importantly for new releases!!!But xbox live arcade is just the icing on the cake.Now you get a rev and a backwards catalog.Good.
I will get that(because I will have a rev also) and at the same time get enhanced graphics, plus more titles that you wont see if your just a fanboy!Plus ill get xbla.hmmmmmmmm tastes so good huh?
And to the high school graduate that said something about m$ copying nintendos backwards catalog plan and small games.Remember that there was an xbox arcade before there was a rev whatever it will be called.I really remember playing xbox live arcade games on xbox though.What about the rest of you guys?
Yeah I think I did .astro pop was fun.
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 12:20PM
Ok, "oh boy", I'll bite. $400 for just the console. And you should assume most people don't already have an HDTV because most people don't. SO, Yes, you could do this. Of course you could buy a toilet without toilet paper too, but my guess is you wont'.
So are you saying its worth $400 to play gauntlet and geometry wars? Wheres the value if you dont buy any games and you dont have upgraded graphics? I'm all ears.
Tiremfej @ Jan 25th 2006 12:22PM
These kind of comments make the Revolution less revolutionary. It's very funny if you ask me. I love how many Xbox haters are on this board, maybe that's why I keep coming back.
The fact of the matter is: I'm playing a real system on a real HDTV, with real games, real controllers and I love it. I'm still looking at concept pictures from the other companies, with no real games, the only solid fact we have from the other consoles is a magic wand of a controller, that will make your arm fall off after 20 minutes of use. It's hilarious how everyone is around here.
coincidence @ Jan 25th 2006 1:11PM
i'm not a spammer :)
thomas_h @ Jan 25th 2006 1:19PM
all i got to say is, i love XLA, and i think its a great feature.. ive played GW a bit and its one of the most addicting games i've ever played.. and Wik, and Bankshot Billiards also solid nice games... and SF2 will be awesome :D :D
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 1:35PM
"The fact of the matter is: I'm playing a real system on a real HDTV, with real games, real controllers and I love it."
Me too. Its called my gamecube and my xbox.
So what? Yes. thats the point. You spent alot of money that I didn't and what did you get? Well, thats what were discussing here. So your post is pointless really.
So then I ask you the same question you asked yourself, why do you keep coming back?
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 1:59PM
Ok, Nick here you go,
1. "You're just inviting hackers and warez loving kiddies to take your content and mess with it or distribute it if you just use any standard hard drive."
How is an external harddrive any different than the industry standard SD cards when it comes to hackers and pirates? Either one will allow you to get code onto/off of the machine. Nintendo has confirmed that you will be able to save games and downloads to removable media including SD memory cards. They have also confirmed that the removable media will be able to be used in conjunction with the users home PC for archival and organization of those same downloads. So if they let you take the content off their machine and put it onto yours, I see no reason to assume you couldn't do this with a harddrive. Until they say you can't, its a safe assumption that you can.
2. "You and a lot of other loving bashers keep going on about "buying a $400 system for free PC games."
You miss the point entirely. The reason this is funny is because no one, including you, stood out in the rain for hours to get their grubby mitts on geometry wars. But as it turns out, its about the best the system has to offer right now and everyone knows it. Thats why its funny.
Dont get me wrong, I've played GW and liked it. But I never heard anyone shouting about the "NEXT GEN" debut of geometry wars. Its only once people realized that most of the 360 games are almost exactly the same as the current gen xbox games (which are good I admit) and then all of a sudden gauntlet looks pretty fresh.
3. Your "riskyness" demonstrates again that you don't get it. The point isn't that you are spending $400 to play games you can play for free. The point is that you rush and stand in line to get a console that isn't really very next gen, so then you have to resort to playing joust, which if you really liked it, you would probably already have on your PC/PS2/XBOX. Yes, its a neat side benefit, but its kinda sad that a $400 next gen peice of gaming hardwares most exciting feature has nothing to do with its hardware or game innovation but rather a service that could have been easily implimented on the current gen with no hardware upgrades whatsoever.
The same will be said for the rev when it comes out, (ANd I'll be the first to say it), if all the rev titles are stale and don't offer anything new, (like the 360 titles in my opinion) and the new controller totally sucks, and I'm still on joystiq spouting how awesome the rev is, not because of the new controller, or the new gaming possibilities but rather because of joust, or pac man, then please put me in my place because then I will sound just like the xbox crowd sounds now, you included, and that would be a travesty I couldn't bare.
Tiremfej @ Jan 25th 2006 2:28PM
To #33
The point is, XBLA and Xbox 360 are real and viable. Anything that has been said about the Revolution and PS3 is all conjecture. My point is XBLA is a nail in Nintendo's revolutionary concept. You think Nintendo isn't going to charge consumers for the games? Yeah, and monkey's are going to fly out of my butt. Basically, XBLA is already offering what the supposed Revolution is supposed to offer.
to #34
As for the 360 not being next-gen, get some glasses.
Toys for Rob @ Jan 25th 2006 2:32PM
"So are you saying its worth $400 to play gauntlet and geometry wars?"
If you are buying a Revolution JUST to play SMB3 and Duck Hunt, you are wasting your money. People buy systems to play many games, not just one or two. Geometry Wars is awesome, but so are PGR3, COD2, and Condemned. Plus we still have Gears of War, Huxley, Halo 3, and Oblivion to look forward to. At BEST the Revolution will launch with a new Mario, Zelda and Metriod game, but we all know that wont happen. If history teaches us anything, the Nintendo might have one standout title and then a few crap games. I need more to look forward to than three games in a systems total library to be excited about a launch.
" Wheres the value if you dont buy any games and you dont have upgraded graphics? I'm all ears."
Doesn't have upgraded graphics? Compare the graphics DOOM3 on the Xbox to Quake 4 on the 360, both use the same engine, yet the difference in detail is huge even on a standard tv. You won't be getting much of any improvement in graphics on the Revolution due to the crippling small amount of RAM, a mere quarter of the other next-gen systems. From what I can tell the only thing the Revolution has going for it is the controller. Without that controller the system would be dead in the water. Lets just hope it works better than advertised.
Nintendo has been so tight lipped I can't even imagine how anyone could be excited about it. Games? What games? Nintendo has had some great first party games, but they are few are far between now compared to other systems, have less features and aren't better quality. Yawn. I'd rather get a real next gen system with an entire library of games than play the same 3 Nintendo games over and over with a new controller and ever so slightly better graphics. The Nintendo name doesn't mean what it used to, as their current trend is for every console to be less popular than the last and the games just can't compete. Not only that, but Best Buy is the first of many retailers who are no longer taking orders from publishers for GameCube games and are discontinuing it due to dismal sales.
dsub @ Jan 25th 2006 2:59PM
APPLAUSE FOR #26
"And for saying you can use the HDTV for other things, how do you like paying for that monthly cable bill to get, wait a minute, how many channels in HD? Wow, you can watch local news in HD, well that's freakin important. HD is important for movies, which are not being broadcast in true HD and won't be truly observable until HD-DVD or Blu-Ray."
Hmm...that's funny, because I just got done watching ghostbusters on HBO HD, in 1080i, last time I checked that was true HD wasn't it?...not "my local news channel"
My local cable provider's HDTV channel lineup:
-ESPNHD
-DiscoveryHD
-UniversalHD
-HDNET
-HDNETMovies
-CBSHD
-ABCHD
-NBCHD
-FOXHD
-HBOHD
-SHOWTIMEHD
-CinemaxHD
in additon to that, I have HDTV pay-per-view, and HDTV on demand, where I can enjoy HD movies, including new releases and old ones, for the price of a rental at blockbuster. So...no HD movies? You were saying?
Now, onto this $400 to play XBL arcade bullshit that you fanboys are throwing around. No one fucking waited in line to go home and play geometry wars. I just got done playing condemned, and next I may play some DOA4, or some Madden 06, how about some COD2? Or PDZ perhaps? These games are all totally next gen, have amazing graphics, and they just keep getting better...Fight Night Round 3 anyone? It comes out in a few weeks. Then Gears of War, then GRAW, then Oblivion, on top of all the great titles the 360 already has, more and more are about to start coming out. You people can't just expect 100+ quality titles to appear out of thin air a month from launch, it's just not realistic.
You fanboy dipshits pound these pointless arguements like "everyone who owns a 360 is just sitting around playing geometry wars...they wasted there money because I can play games like that on my PC" your arguements are not based on fact, but only your narrow minded fanboy opinions.
I agree the fact that, if 360 owners wasted there money because you can play arcade games on your PC, then what arguement do you have to defend the revolution?
I can go play Punchout with the flick of a wrist right now. The arguement of "you can do that on a PC" is bullshit, because you can FUCKING DO ANYTHING on a PC. It's cool because I can sit and play with my controller on my couch, duh. People are excited about geometry wars, and the XBL arcade, because it is something new, and they are giving praise to it.
"Nintendo has confirmed that you will be able to save games and downloads to removable media including SD memory cards. They have also confirmed that the removable media will be able to be used in conjunction with the users home PC for archival and organization of those same downloads. So if they let you take the content off their machine and put it onto yours, I see no reason to assume you couldn't do this with a harddrive. Until they say you can't, its a safe assumption that you can."
link please? where is this confirmation? just curious. If it is true, the revolution is about to get hacked...real fast. If you can take these games off your card and put them on your PC, then you might as well not even charge for them, unless nintendo has some crazy DRM software that you have to use to store them.
"So are you saying its worth $400 to play gauntlet and geometry wars? Wheres the value if you dont buy any games and you dont have upgraded graphics? I'm all ears."
So are you saying it will be worth $250 to buy a revolution and no games OR accessories? Where's the value? I'm all ears.
I am looking forward to the revo controller, and the virtual console. I'm no XBOX fanboy, but I just don't understand how some of you guys can just be so blatantly ignorant about stuff...it's like you purposely sit around trying to point out the most negative thing about a console and just keep repeating it, completely ignoring the fact that it's positives outweigh it's negatives.
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 3:04PM
"The point is, XBLA and Xbox 360 are real and viable"
No, thats not the point at all. Thats what YOU want the point to be but that doesn't make it so. It is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. Nice Try.
"Basically, XBLA is already offering what the supposed Revolution is supposed to offer."
You mean a 20 year back catalog of nintendo games? Um, I think you are wrong there my friend, perhaps you should get the glasses. I doubt we'll be seeing many Nintendo games for download on XBL. Wake up.
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 25th 2006 3:29PM
"So are you saying it will be worth $250 to buy a revolution and no games OR accessories? Where's the value? I'm all ears."
No!!! I'm not. Not at all. You are agreeing with me and you dont even know it because you aren't paying attention to the thread.
I can't remember who it was now and I dont want to reread every post to find out.
But if you had read the posts in the first place you would know I was responding to someone claiming that you only had to spend $400 to enjoy the 360 and that no other expenses were necessary. My point was that you need to buy some games too for goodness sake.
So of course the same goes for the Revo or any console.
Good Lord, does no one on here read before they respond? Every response to my post has completely ignored the points I was making in order to go into some fanboy rant. If you want to debate, great. Thats the idea, but dont ignore points that are made and then spew the same nonsense we've heard 100 times. It wastes everyones time.
Toys for Rob @ Jan 25th 2006 3:40PM
XBLA offers right now beyond what the Revolution talks about, both new and classic games. Sure you will be able to play first party Nintendo games, but what about Karnov? MegaMan? Those very well might end up on XBLA just like Street Fighter, Smash bros, Gauntlet, etc. Will there be any new downloadable games on the Revolution? Who knows, but XBLA has them both right now.
Tiremfej @ Jan 25th 2006 7:34PM
To tickle me xboxless
The point of this whole article was XBLA and how it's a useful tool for developers and how it offers basically what Nintendo is going to offer. I could care less about playing bastardized Nintendo games, Mortal Kombat with no blood? Poor arcade ports, heck back in the days of the NES every game that came out wasn't even close to its arcade counterpart (unless of course it was a Nintendo game). You can play all of that crap if you want, waste your money.
So yes my point is made and it continues to be made. XBLA is viable, and it will be succesful. Probably more so than Nintendo's offering, whatever that may be.
Nick @ Jan 25th 2006 7:42PM
Oh my xboxless, whatever shall we do with you.
1. My point was that it's an unwise business decision to use an "industry standard" anything when it comes to storage mediums. Hard drives are "industry standard" and so are flash memory cards, but it's the way they're connected and preformatted that makes them more difficult to hack. Using a cross platform hard drive or flash memory card (standard connections, standard formatting) to store vital system data and content just doesn't make sense.
Why do you think hooking any HD up to the Xbox 360 only lets you access images, music, and videos? Is it because MS is being mean and wants your money? Sure, they want your money they're a business; However, while the hard drive is over priced, the primary reason for being proprietary is security. If any hard drive could store content and house executables, a huge security hole is ripped open. It becomes an entry point for hacks and for the content stored to be stolen.
Also, don't forget that hard drives are movable between systems so generally content isn't locked to a specific Xbox 360. This "problem" could be solved by locking to an individual system, but that would anger users who wanted to play games they paid for on some other Xbox 360 via their hard drive (that they own). Locking content to a specific hard drive would likely be trivial to defeat because you would have access to the drive anyway and there are only so many uniquely identifiable pieces of information on a drive.
2. Oh no, I got your point just fine. It's you who did not understand mine. If you had continued reading past the line you quoted, you would note how there are games on the Xbox 360 right now that I enjoy. You would also note that I bought it with the promise of future games I'll enjoy. On top of that you would've read that the arcade is a nice bonus to me because I don't always have hours a day to spend playing the lengthier DVD based games.
Besides the fact that I didn't stand out in the rain (I was smart enough to preorder from 2 stores), you are also wrong in saying Geometry Wars is the best the system has to offer. Who said that? Joystiq did; I did not. They can have their opinion, good for them, but you can't generalize over half a million people based on their opinion. Had I stood out in the rain, I would still feel it was worth purchasing on launch day. I love all the games I've bought for it, both at retail and through XBLA, because they're all fun to me (except DOA4 single player).
The facts of life, however, tell me that I have more time to play XBLA games than I have to play the games I bought at retail. Why is this? Because I get a few occasions during the day where I can sit down and play for 10-20 minutes. When I have more time on the weekend, I can play through CoD2, have bouts online in DOA4, or play some PDZ co-op. So, it isn't that Geometry Wars is the best the system has to offer, it's that XBLA arcade offers quickie convenient fun for a short period of time and requires less dedication to the gameplay.
So from that, we can conclude the situation in your statement isn't "funny" because it's simply not true. For the record, most of the Xbox 360 games I've played have raised my expectations for what console gaming should be. Those games must be doing something right. And before you make the comment, I never had low standards. I expect a lot more from my Xbox 360 as it matures, just as with any console I've ever owned.
3. As I said, I get it. See point number 2 above to see my thoughts on how "worth it" the Xbox 360 is to me today. Seeing as how you like to say so many people don't understand you, have you ever stopped to think that you have articulatory issues? I mean, I understand what you're typing, but if that isn't what you mean then the problem is with you, not I.
No console, in the history of console gaming, has been amazingly "next-gen" on launch day (excluding the move from 2D->3D). PS2 games looked like end-of-life PS1 games, Gamecube launch games looked like end-of-life N64 games. Why should the Xbox 360's relationship to end-of-life Xbox games be any different? If you expected to see end-of-life Xbox 360 games on launch day, then you should watch the Lion King to better understand the circle of life.
Again, you're falling back on the presumption that the XBLA is the only thing the Xbox 360 has going for it. It's a bonus feature, at least to me, and is in the minority of overall Xbox 360 functionality. I didn't spend $400 for XBLA; I spent $400 for retail games, Xbox Live access, XBLA, and media center features. Pretty much in that order too, though XBLA didn't take over media center features until I played a few games through it. The reason everybody's so happy over XBLA is that it was a sleeper feature that we didn't give much credit to until we actually got to using it.
Now before you say it, because I know you will, it wasn't a sleeper hit because people were dissatisfied with retail games. We saw the button, we saw the word "free," and we tried it out to find how much we liked it; people like it because it provides "instant" fun without commitment to the gameplay (no storylines, no complex controls, etc). That's not to say I still don't have a blast with my retail games or that those games don't feel next-gen; as much as I would like to, I just don't have the time to spend playing them as often compared to XBLA arcade titles I can play for a few minutes.
Now you might be saying, "Well that's you, even people that have time' for longer games play XBLA!" Ok, so you're saying that people can't think their retail games are next-gen, enjoy those retail games a lot, AND play XBLA arcade games without doing so because "everything else sucks"? XBLA is a nice "cool down" from long/involved games and is also a great intermission feature to utilize before switching discs to play something else. There are tons of reasons why XBLA is fun, but to say that it's fun because the Xbox 360 has nothing better to offer is just silly.
To say the Xbox 360 hardware isn't very next-gen just goes to show that you're ignorant of what's inside the machine and how it has to be exposed by developers over time. Some games are just scratching the surface of those features and others didn't try to take advantage of the Xbox 360 at all (read: Activision games). See the second paragraph of this section for more information on why the games don't all instantly feel next-gen. If you expect anything better than end-of-life Gamecube games at the Revolution's launch, you will be disappointed.
One last interesting point; I'm buying the Revolution specifically to have access to the old games, that's the major feature of that console to me. Guess that means all the Revolution games are going to suck then, huh? Well, I don't think that, but based on your logic, you do.
Nick
P.S. This post killed one of my jaunts in time, I could've been playing some Geometry Wars :(
Captain Boosh @ Jan 25th 2006 8:44PM
1080i? What a joke. That's not truly HD. Until you get a progressive scan 1080, there isn't a large enough leap to truly justify the money you're spending per month, which you didn't mention BTW. 720P is better, but even then it isn't anything to really blow your socks off.
Do you know that 35mm film, which is what you shoot in for a real film, has a resolution of 4096x4096 (it varies). So if you're impressed by 1080i and pay monthly in the $100 range (guessing), you're getting ripped off if you consider it real High Def.
And then you'll say there isn't any sets around that even support that yet (1080P). And I'll say, exactly. Heck, the majority of HDTV owners won't even be able to watch true HD movies when HD-DVD or Blu-Ray comes out because the first few generations of these sets don't have HDMI inputs. And if you try and turn it into analog to use the HD, the resolution bumps down to 25% of a real HD signal.
The people who make this stuff can and will do that sort of stuff so we'll buy whatever is new at the time and then upgrade again when the new thing comes out. Cause when 1080P is becoming mainstream, you'll pony up (or bend over) to get that too.
And I say 1080P because once that is around, there isn't going to be a significant upgrade to TV resolution for a while. Then you're safe with that. You're not being ripped off and you can use that for a long time.
It's like how plasma was a waste until now because of burn-in which has since been taken care of. I'm not saying that new technology is always a waste, but you have to see what you're paying for and if it justifies that dollar amount.
And having the XBLA be the standout of a $400 system doesn't justify that amount. Not taking into consideration the money spent on that HDTV set and home theater audio.
Overall, all I'm saying is you should save some of that money and spend it at a more appropriate time. Case in point, I am not buying an XBOX 360 anytime soon, but I will buy one eventually when there are good enough games out (that utilize the real potential) and I'm not spending an arm and a leg for it.
And yes I can play Nintendo games on my PC too, but it's a big hassle to get emulators that work perfect (lots of audio problems) and trying to hunt down games can be a pain. Plus, only NES and SNES games are good on a PC, all the N64 emulators need a lot of work. They don't work perfect, and if they don't on the Revo, then it will be a waste of money for that feature. Plus it's illegal.
Again, XBLA good, but as a main selling point, lame.
360 good, if you're willing to pony up lots of money , just like PSP.
Revo controller and virtual console, we'll have to wait and see. I am a bit scared by using my arms so much cause it will get tiring, but we'll have to wait and see. Just like the power brick, it was never mentioned until the 360 came out, and then it was an issue. Who knows what issues we'll have with the PS3 or Revo, but there's no point in discussing them now.
I think only tickle me xboxless is the only one that gets it. It's the principal of the matter at hand, not on wether XBLA is actually cool or what the Revo might do.
TURKDAONE @ Jan 25th 2006 9:41PM
Whats wrong with you guys?
Just because geometry wars is a favorite among joystiq, doesnt mean that its all said and done.The guy talking about xbla games as a quick fix has the idea.You see not everyone can sit at home on their ass and play games all day.Some of us have professions that actually allow us to buy these systems at launch.
And you know who they are.The one ones that totally play good on xbox live have lots of practice.But I work.I buy my own systems, and play when I want.And what makes you guys think that everyone ran out and bought there hi def tvs' and home theatre systems along with the 360?I already had mine.
Truth be told, whomever thinks that the 360 and xbox games look the same are just plain ignorant.Even the crappy kiosks show different at your local wal mart.They look better than anything the xbox could offer.PGR3 could be done on the xbox, but it wouldnt look as it does now.Or sound as it does.Call of duty, pd0 all of these games look next gen.Its a pooor day in time when people start lying just to seem like they know it all.
Everyone that I meet that actually asks me if the 360 looks better than the xbox, I just go into detail.My friends thought that it would look a little better, but when they saw madden they were floored!!And they are ps2 fanatics.So its official, everyone that states that the 360 doesnt look better or look next gen is classified as a fanboy in my opinion.
Once again xbox live arcade is a good feature.How many copies of geometry wars has been sold?Now look at cod2 sales.And the game costs 60 bucks.Most of my friends on my friends list are playing retail games, not xbox live arcade!
Grow up guys!Buy A 360 AND YOU'LL BE SINGING THE OTHER TUNE LIKE US.
Bangbang... @ Jan 26th 2006 3:18AM
Captain Boosh and tickle me xboxless
1.nither of you have seen the games running on a SDTV. the difference is huge. hd simply adds clairity. you can see dust floating in the air or fine fibers on clothes. hd doesnt make the games look good, the games just look good. In
2.I agree the launch titles were all reworked xbox games. MAYBE thats why they look simular.you should take look at the ps2 and xbox versions of fight night round 3 and place them next to the 360 version. they dont even look like the same game.
360:
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/766/766603/vids_1.html
and the xbox game:
http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/789/789119/vids_1.html
you whats really sad is that the xbox version looks like some of the best graphics ever seen on the xbox. You dont buy a console for launch titles (tekken tag nfl fever, mari..o.k. mario 64 was impressive for its day) You buy the console that best fits you. If I can play gears, oblivion, condemned, saints row... you get the point and play old school favs. as well as demo upcomeing titles and movies then I got the right console for me.
3. Take your head out of sonys ass. True HD is either 720p or 1080p displayed on a set without having the image re-scaled to fit the screen. nearly all hdtvs and most hd projectors rescale the image. research it.
thats all im going back to work now.
Bangbang... @ Jan 26th 2006 3:20AM
copy and paste the links
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 26th 2006 7:27PM
Nick,
Your post is long but I think I can beat it. Most of what you say is either true or subjective as to not be debatable.
Unfortunately, that doesn't negate the fact that nearly everything you say is completely irrelevant, at least with regard to any point I was making. You are so lost and spinning in some debate within your head that I'm not even sure I can get your straightened out.
However, my mother taught me to be patient with slow people so I'm going to do my darndest to catch you up to 2006. Warning: this will take a while but, Here goes.......
1. Dano posts that XBLA arcade is cool and shows the potential for success for the revo virtual console and uniform online service. He comments that the drawback is that gaming on the 360 is expensive.
2. prOcs makes a post responding to Dano that MS is great and Nintendo are only interested in making a buck so they "nickle and dime" you on everything.
3. Bounch posts a response to Dano that the $50 per year for XBL is not expensive.
4. I reply to Bounch that there are alot of hidden costs associated with the 360. If you include an HDTV, games, online membership fees, etc. So $50 doesn't really reflect the true cost.
In case someone responds that you don't need to buy an HDTV to use a 360, I preemtively comment that if you don't have an HDTV, there isn't a big difference in the graphics from last gen to this so to get the full potential of the 360, you really need an HDTV.
5. 20 xbox fanboys jump out of the woodwork and flame me for insinuating that a 360 has a high cost of entry and that the graphics are not better this gen than last (even though thats not really what I said).
6. dsub in particular claims the revolution will also be very expensive due to the fact that you have to buy memory to save your games on.
7. Art guy misunderstands my post and claims that I somehow stated that HDTV and SDTV graphics are the same, when I said nothing of the sort. He clearly did not read my post. The wording is not misleading.
8. I respond to art guy, that he misunderstood me and that obviously graphics get better at higher resolutions.
9. I respond to dsub and say that there is 512MB of internal flash for saving games and that if I need more space I can use SD memory cards or an external harddrive. I also go on to agree with Captain Boosh who, in his post, says he thinks its funny that the actual HD launch titles for a $400 console are not what people are excited about but rather simple arcade games. I found this humorously ironic because it comes from a hardcore group that typically only rallies around great graphics and next gen features and often insults nintendos virtual console idea for being stupid and simple.
10. Jeremy Wright posts, "Personally I find it amusing that the same people who said "it's all about the gameplay" and "who cares about graphics" are mocking people for playing XLA games and really enjoying them.
11. I respond to Jeremy that, "people aren't ridiculing others for liking simple games, they are ridiculing "CERTAIN" others for making such a big deal about HD and then realizing that great games can be great whether or not they are HD. Thats all."
12. You jump in and call me ignorant and decide to argue about whether or not you can use an external HD on the revolution at which time you start a mini debate with yourself pretending to say what I might say in response.
You then go on to say, "You and a lot of other loving bashers keep going on about "buying a $400 system for free PC games." "
Which I never said and also totally misses the mark of MY posts. Perhaps this was relevant on other threads but on my posts, the point wasn't that we are going on about buying a $400 system for free PC games but rather that many of the same voices who were making a big deal about HD and insulting simple games were now boasting about the great little games on xbla. Its irony you are missing here. Your post demonstrates this as you go on to say:
"First off, I bought my 360 because it has games I want "
This sentence shows that you are not the people we are talking about when we mention the irony I described above. You clearly dont fit the category and yet you are still somehow arguing to defend yourself when you werent attacked.
Then you completely degenerate into some bizarre off topic rant about having a job and not alot of time and that the 360 has all these features, etc etc. And that you can play nintendo games free on your the PC, which somehow relates back to the incorrect comment you made earlier assigning statements to me that I didnt make: "buying a $400 system for free PC games." I never said that or made any points relating to that. I have no idea why you brought this up as it in no way relates to any part Ive had in this discussion. You also say to me,
"I can play some of the arcade titles on my PC, you're right."
And I make special note that you use the words, "YOU'RE RIGHT".
What do you mean I'm right? I NEVER said this! Comments like this are what I'm referring to when I say you are missing the point. You are attributing things to me I never said. And then arguing with me as if I had said them.
13. Next, Oh boy takes issue with my assessment that the 360 is expensive and claims that you only have to pay $400 and nothing more.
14. I respond to Oh Boy, "So are you saying its worth $400 to play gauntlet and geometry wars? Wheres the value if you dont buy any games and you dont have upgraded graphics? I'm all ears" My point here and previously was that the 360 was expensive and you need to buy other things to use it fully that adds up to alot of money.
15. Ok, this is where I screwed up. I made the mistake of responding to you about the external harddrive even though it was a side issue at best. I should have ignored this but I didn't. Anyway, I think allowing an external harddrive makes a system no more hackable than allowing me to put my own SD memory cards into the unit. My response said as much. On this I think we can agree to disagree.
16. Tiremfej posts that the xbox360 is "real", somehow implying that because the rev is not released yet, this is all moot, which I totally disagree with and make a post saying as much.
17. So dsub jumps in after seeing my comment above on point 14 and responds with "So are you saying it will be worth $250 to buy a revolution and no games OR accessories? Where's the value? I'm all ears." which actually supports my previous argument (that I'm guess he didnt read) which is that you MUST buy more than just the console to get the moneys worth out of any game machine. This goes for the Rev just like the 360. He made my point for me with his post and didnt know it.
18. You come back with:
Your number 1. "My point was that it's an unwise business decision to use an "industry standard" anything when it comes to storage mediums. " and then you continue with THREE PARAGRAPHS ABOUT THIS.
Ok, thats fine if that is your point but that has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I was debating on this blog.
Now do you see why I said you are missing the point? You are arguing a point with me that I am not defending. I dont care about unwise business decisions about media exposure or hacking. So, let me just say, if that was your point. You are right. I made the mistake that your derogitory comments towards me had some relevance to what I was saying. I was wrong and I see that now.
Your number 2. "Oh no, I got your point just fine. It's you who did not understand mine. If you had continued reading past the line you quoted, you would note how there are games on the Xbox 360 right now that I enjoy. You would also note that I bought it with the promise of future games I'll enjoy. On top of that you would've read that the arcade is a nice bonus to me because I don't always have hours a day to spend playing the lengthier DVD based games."
My response to this is that this shows you somehow took what I said and incorrectly applied it to you. I was never generalizing the entire xbox360 community. I was only pointing out the irony of a select few. You seem to have taken this personally and are now attempting to defend your purchase. This is unnecessary. Its clear you bought your 360 for different reasons than the people we were referring to. Thats why your responses didnt make sense.
Your number 3. "As I said, I get it. See point number 2 above to see my thoughts on how "worth it" the Xbox 360 is to me today. "
Ok, so you think the 360 is worth it. Thats fine. Once again this proves that you are not one of the people I was referring to. If you understood the irony I mentioned in the very beginning, you wouldn't feel the need to demonstrate the 360s worthiness.
You then go on to say , "No console, in the history of console gaming, has been amazingly "next-gen" on launch day"
Ok, fine. I agree. I have never claimed otherwise. Once again, this point of issue has little to do with what I've been saying. I will concede this point. You are right.
Then you totally jump off the wagon and start having a make believe argument with me again where you play both you and me. You start this off with, "Again, you're falling back on the presumption that the XBLA is the only thing the Xbox 360 has going for it."
WTF? I dont presume that now, nor have I. In fact, I think the 360 has alot going for it. My point was not that the 360 does not have potential but rather that in order to see the true potential of the 360, its somewhat expensive. Is this coming together for you yet because I feel like I keep repeating myself.
Then you continue with, "Now before you say it, because I know you will,"
WTF? You know what I'm going to say now? Well you must because you then go on to argue with what I'm GOING to say. Yes, thats right, I haven't said it yet, but you'll still argue with me about it.
Or how about this little exchange between you and.....you?
"Now you might be saying, "Well that's you, even people that have time' for longer games play XBLA!" Ok, so you're saying that people can't think their retail games are next-gen, enjoy those retail games a lot, AND play XBLA arcade games without doing so because "everything else sucks"?"
Did you catch that in there?
"Ok, so you're saying".....
No, I'm not saying it! You are! You are arguing for me about points I didnt even make. Nor would I.
And that folks is where I have to bow out of this thread completely. When someone is so completely off their rocker that they are getting worked up about stuff that they are imagining I will say but haven't yet? Wow, I can't combat that.
It appears you have defeated the imaginary me in your debates so why should the real me even respond?
My conclusion to all this, the only way I can make it make sense is that you somehow took my comments and internalized them such that you mistook them to be the same comments that others have been making towards the 360. Most of your points were clearly based on other generalizations I've seen from xbox haters on here. I think you mistook me for one of those. To a certain degree, I can see why. I came out somewhat aggressive and I know it can be hard to have someone talk badly about your favorite console. But please, in the future, if you want to debate, let your opponent speak for themselves rather than making up what they might say so you can defeat the points.
Sorry to waste everyones time with this if anyone even reads it.
Nick @ Jan 26th 2006 11:26PM
Ok, I'm going to keep this relatively sort. Well, probably not.
These statements you made are the basis for most of the arguments I made. My comments were in response to what you said but I always try and cover every possible way I may be interpreted so people don't have to misinterpret something, post about it, and then I have to post correcting it or giving more info related to it.
"As for EXTRA memory, if I want to buy a HD for the rev, I can. It has USB ports so I can buy a cheap external harddrive of MY CHOOSING. Unlike the 360s proprietary drive that costs 10 times too much." - This is the root of my comments on the hard drive and being "industry standard" vs. proprietary. You can use industry standard drives in the Xbox 360 also, but not for games or game saves, which is what I felt you implied for the Revolution external hard drive usage.
"I can get a nice 80 gig external HD for less than MS charges you for a 20 gig piece of crap. $100 for a 20 gig harddrive, are you crazy?" - This also had a part in sparking my comments about industry standard vs. proprietary.
"I think its hilarious some people paid $400 for a system to can play games like geometry wars in HD. Thats hilarious. Microsoft are genius. $400 so you can play cute little cell phone style games on a TV. Yeah, the game looks good, but if you're not playing HD COD2, PGR3, Condemned, etc, WTF do you need to spend $400 for?" - This brought up my comments on purchasing decision, the playing of retail games, why I like XBLA games over retail games sometimes, etc. While you called XBLA games cell phone style games, my response was amalgamating your view and the view of CaptainBoosh which you said you supported. This lead to the free PC game and old Nintendo game comment.
"The only people getting mocked are the people who were screaming about how important HD is before the 360 came out and are now having so much fun with these simpler games." - I believe that HD is important. This comment also contributed to my comments about why I sometimes play more XBLA compared to HD retail games and the comments that I often enjoy my HD games as well.
"So, people aren't ridiculing others for liking simple games, they are ridiculing others for making such a big deal about HD and then realizing that great games can be great whether or not they are HD." - Again, more of your post that led to my comments on XBLA vs. HD retail game usage, the reasons for that usage ratio, and so on. XBLA games are great for little breaks between games or when you've only got a few minutes to play; they're fun but HD retail games are more immersive and enjoyable over a period of many hours.
"How is an external harddrive any different than the industry standard SD cards when it comes to hackers and pirates? Either one will allow you to get code onto/off of the machine." - You're incorrect here, so I replied to this in my second reply.
"But as it turns out, its about the best the system has to offer right now and everyone knows it." - Here you're talking about XBLA and applying it to the entire Xbox 360 community. This comment alone indicates that you were attacking more than just those who bought the system proclaiming the HD was everything and then they found simple arcade games to be fun as well.
"The point is that you rush and stand in line to get a console that isn't really very next gen, so then you have to resort to playing joust, which if you really liked it, you would probably already have on your PC/PS2/XBOX." - Again, this is less about just arcade games and more about attacking the entire machine. You're basically saying XBLA is the only thing going for the Xbox 360. This leads to my comments about previous-gen consoles and how they didn't show an instantly huge improvement over their predecessors. It also lead to the hardware ignorance comment.
I enjoy my Xbox 360, very much, so I will comment against those who post uninformed comments about it. I'll do the same if I enjoy my Revolution as much but don't expect any pro-PS3 rants from me until 2009 when it's $150.
All the above quotes considered, I think my replies were pretty on-target.
Oh, and as I said in the first paragraph, I like to get all the bases covered as people read my posts so they don't have to post something and then get a reply; I try to get it out of the way ahead of time. That's the reason for my presumptive comments and replies to those comments; they're comments I would expect similar posters to make.
I think that does it for this thread for me. I'm going to leave it at that as this is getting too far back in the pages to find and check daily.
Nick
P.S. When did you change your name, bd?
tickle me xboxless @ Jan 27th 2006 1:47AM
Dude, you're hopeless. You are in your own little world.
You nitpick the sidebars to my real arguments.
Basically, if someone posted that the sky is blue, you would point at a white cloud and claim the poster is wrong. You are picking out details of my comments that were not germane to the matter at hand.
For example, I dont care about hacking the revolution, so of course you want to argue about it. This is a mere detail trivial to the discussion so you harp on it for 3 LONG paragraphs. Nevermind that you are wrong and if I want to hack a machine, I can do it with an executable on an SD card just as easily as on a USB harddrive. Sorry to tell you.
"my response was amalgamating your view and the view of CaptainBoosh which you said you supported. This lead to the free PC game and old Nintendo game comment."
Whooops. You took my support in a context beyond what was stated. After I said I agree with him, I went on to explain that agreement and put it in my own words to avoid just what you ended up doing, that is attributing his comments to me. Your bad, not mine.
"I believe that HD is important. This comment also contributed to my comments about why I sometimes play more XBLA compared to HD retail games and the comments that I often enjoy my HD games as well."
Yes, HD is important. No one said its not. Thats irrelevant. How can you miss the point over and over? The point isn't whether or not its important but whether or not you were making it out to be the defining characteristic of good games as many were. Clearly you weren't. So you got bent out of shape over nothing. Again, not my fault.
"Again, more of your post that led to my comments on XBLA vs. HD retail game usage, the reasons for that usage ratio, and so on. XBLA games are great for little breaks between games or when you've only got a few minutes to play; they're fun but HD retail games are more immersive and enjoyable over a period of many hours."
Usage ratio? What? Who cares? This meaningless rational has nothing to do with people who completely shifted gears after they had a chance to play the launch titles. As I said before its clear you werent among them so this explanation is pointless in this debate. Sure its neat to know you have a certain ratio of playing full games vs. xbla, but I really dont care. Sorry, it just doesn't matter.
"Here you're talking about XBLA and applying it to the entire Xbox 360 community. This comment alone indicates that you were attacking more than just those who bought the system proclaiming the HD was everything and then they found simple arcade games to be fun as well."
Wrong. Im not applying anything to the entire xbox community. You are completely wrong. And I wasn't attacking anyone. If you felt attacked, you shouldn't. I was simply referring to what many gaming sites have referred to as the "killer app" on the 360. Its nothing to be ashamed of, but you clearly get defensive when its pointed out. BTW, I didnt come up with this. Joystiq and a dozen other sites did.
"Again, this is less about just arcade games and more about attacking the entire machine. You're basically saying XBLA is the only thing going for the Xbox 360. This leads to my comments about previous-gen consoles and how they didn't show an instantly huge improvement over their predecessors. It also lead to the hardware ignorance comment."
Wrong again. Boy you are batting a zero today friend.
I'm not attacking the whole machine. You said yourself that you can't expect alot from a machine right out of the gates. So really you must not think its super next gen either. At least not yet. Don't get pissy just becuase I dont think the 360 is sliced bread. It makes you look like a fanboy if you care so much what other peoples opinion of a console is.
"I enjoy my Xbox 360, very much, so I will comment against those who post uninformed comments about it."
Why? To protect its honor? How sweet. BTW, nothing I said about the 360 was uninformed. I'm very well informed thank you. Clearly our opinions differ, but that doesn't mean I'm uninformed, nor does it mean you are. Nothing you've said has undone any point I made. Partially because you completely missed my points in your fervor to defend a misperceived attack on your sacred toy, but I dont hold that against you now that I see how you think.
"All the above quotes considered, I think my replies were pretty on-target. " Well, you can't be helped then I'm afraid. I can only repeat myself so many times.
"I like to get all the bases covered as people read my posts so they don't have to post something and then get a reply; I try to get it out of the way ahead of time." Hopefully, you realize that you are admitting to having an argument before it exists so you can win before it starts? This is borderline schizophrenic.
Just a heads up.
"That's the reason for my presumptive comments and replies to those comments; they're comments I would expect similar posters to make."
Unfortunately, presumptive comments typically lead to incorrect assumptions and flawed logic trains should the facts not develop as intended. Clearly thats what happened in this case and why it is so difficult to get you back on track. You wandered down a road of presumption to a place that I didn't go. In the end, you look silly standing by yourself with an argument that you finished but no one started.
"I think that does it for this thread for me. I'm going to leave it at that as this is getting too far back in the pages to find and check daily.'
Sounds good to me. Hopefully, you can learn to put the breaks on the presumptive logic trains long enough to let people make their own points. It makes threads easier to follow when you only have to read 1 back and forth rather than 2. In this case it seems you actually confused yourself.
Oh, and I never tangle with BD anymore. He is hopeless too, although its funny you mention him as he is on a list of people I avoid discussion with for fear of incredibly long and absurd responses that skirt the issue and wander about aimlessly. I've added you to the same list. Oh, and I have no problem with articulation. I just have a problem articulating on a level some people understand. Its a cross I have to bare.
Nick @ Jan 27th 2006 2:46AM
That was a fast reply, I came back to check one of my paragraphs and to my surprise what do I see? A post!
Regardless of what you want to say the topic is, I addressed points that you made in your posts. Just because you don't want those to be the point or the topic doesn't mean they can't be part of the discussion. You wrote them here, they're fair game for critiquing. Also, all of them were supporting arguments for either your point or your views. I would say I know the point, but you'll just proclaim otherwise in a reply.
I'm sickened to be on a list with BD, but such is life if that's how you feel.
I'm definitely done here. Even when I quote comments you made and explain how they tied into my replies, you STILL say I "don't get it" and that somehow my posts are not replying to any issues that you bring up. Oh well.
Nick
P.S. You are VERY reminiscent of BD as you seem to type, think, and act like him; naturally, I confused the two of you. That was "my bad" too, I suppose.