L.A. sues Take-Two for selling hot coffee to minors

According to the headline, it seems like the corporate buyers for the retail store are under the age of 18?

Hey, I live in CA. I wonder if I'll be seeing any of this money. I didn't buy the game and I'm not a minor, but umm...I was emotionally damaged by the thought of them selling a pornographic (and not to mention killographic) game to minors.

the world is probably better without the likes of modern GTA.

GTA 1 and 2 could be passed off as decent games because of the crudeness of graphics, but after that it all went downhill. especially SA

no cause for the lawsuit - the game is only sold to 17+, not children. the only persons to blame for giving the game to minors are the parents and the retailers

Wow...they are sueing Take2 Interactive. Someone should send them a little memo saying that they are not the ones who sell the game. If they want to sue anyone, it would be the retailers.

Of course if all these politicians, laywers and parents had half a brain they would know that the stuff in GTA:SA was "technically" not part of the shipped game. Plus if minors buy the game they should also sue the parents for being negligent as well.

Idiots...

OMG .. come on .. does LA need that money? thats just lame. It's a 17+ game, that means NO KIDS !!! anyway, so many stupid ppl in USA that does not suprise me at all.

Honestly I can't say I'd be all that heartbroken if they stoped making GTA games altogether. Even if it is not intended for pre 17 kids they get their hands on it...

You know LA probably has a stick up their butt.

But man, if you are going to put unlockable raunchiness in your game, tell the ESRB about it instead of trying to act like you aren't responsible (like how rockstar first said that they didn't make Hot Coffee; that it was an elaborate mod).

This is a classic example of where lying gets you. If Rockstar/Take Two came clean in the first place, the worst they would have got was the ESRB AO rating slap in the wrist and a few angry parents.

There is NO WAY that the ESRB could have accessed the "hot coffee" sequence. It required an action replay device on the PS2, modified code on the PC, and modified code on the XBox. In fact, the ONLY way that you could access it was to VIOLATE the ULA. Although I HATED GTA:SA because it was basically awful, I do not in any way hold Take-Two responsible for the "pornography - badly pixelated intercouse, what a rush!". They might not have even known that the code was even in the game since I seriously doubt that management has ever looked at every line of code the programmers write. What a waste of time and expense for our legal system.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for one second.

If Microsoft had a hidden system folder on every copy of Word 2005's install disc that, if cracked, gave you access to a bunch of porno, would we not all be laughing about it and saying that Microsoft should have better quality control so this kind of shit doesn't happen?

Yes, I know the coding was dead. Yes, I know you had to run the unofficial, unsanctioned Hot Coffee mod made by users. But the content was there, on the disc. Accessible or not.

I'm not saying this lawsuit has merit, mind you. I think it is completely frivolous. I just wonder if anyone agrees or not if whether my example would be the same thing?

I just wanted to thank Los Angeles City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo for completely wasting taxpayer dollars on his frivolous lawsuit against Grand Theft Auto videogame maker Take2.
With the fact that he's running for state attorney general, I assume he's trying to win the family vote by speaking out against videogames, as seems to be the popular gimmick with some politicians currently. I'd like to point out:

• The average age of people who play videogames is 29 years old (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/printSN/22866.php). While the minimum age of voters is 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_age).

• 35% of parents play videogames (http://www.theesa.com/archives/2006/01/new_study_shows.php)


• Youth violent crime rates have dropped steadily over the past 12 years according to the U.S. Department of Justice, from about 50,000 violent crime instances in 1994 to about 20,000 in 2004. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html). A ten year span during which the popularity of videogames has exploded.

I vote. We gamers vote. However, we shouldn't vote for Mr. Delgadillo or any politician who insists on demonizing videogames of any kind as a political platform.

That is frustrating. If this lawsuit goes forward - and they win - it sets a dangerous precident. They want to hold a company liable for the decisions retailers and parents have made.

Hot Coffee or not, the decision to allow children to play this game falls on the parents, not the government. It is a parent's decision on what their children are exposed to.

I am offended that the government thinks they know better than its citizens do about raising their children and feel the need to hold the manufacturer accountable instead of the people that put the game in the childs hand (which includes retailers who sell Mature/17+ games to minors).

"But man, if you are going to put unlockable raunchiness in your game, tell the ESRB about it instead of trying to act like you aren't responsible."

Sorry but labeling it as that is misleading. The "hot coffee" item was not just something you could unlock after doing something specific within the game. You had to know what you were doing and have the right information...and even then it was never "technically" part of the game.

I agree i say go after these damn parents who buy little billy gta san andreas for his 4th birthday.Suprised Jack aint jumped on this yet.seeing as how he cant post in gp

I hate grandtheft auto but, this is just not healthy for the industry, trying to force a game company not to make games by using BS lawsuits. Anybody see the Primetime Live report on the Nazi twins? Two little girls that sing pro Neo nazi, songs. If anybod gets a chance they should check it out. Matter of fact if I can post a clip of It I will, in the interview these to girls, mention they like to play a little video games from time to time. ANd what is their favorite title? A little game by the Named of "ETHNIC CLEANSING" in the game the girls shoot blacks and hispanics, and other minorities that make gorilla noises.

How is it GTA is being hounded down, but Ethnic cleansing is allowed to be sold. Check this out and just pounder what the government is really after.

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1138099658/Nazi_Twins

gotta watch it at the end where they mention the video game.

OH yea i saw that on nightline or whatever it was.i guess because goverment feels that those people have the right to have the hatred they have and apparently rockstar is more dangerous because they make video games.eventually i see this going in the direction that goverment will Prevent m rated games from being made.also prevent Teen rated games form being made and only allow developers to produce e rated games.not to mention prolly make it a crime for anyone who will not turn in their copy of gta if they ever force rockstar to do a recall

"This is a classic example of where lying gets you. If Rockstar/Take Two came clean in the first place, the worst they would have got was the ESRB AO rating slap in the wrist and a few angry parents."

You got it bro. Take Two totally messed up on this one. They made a mistake and got busted and tried to lie their way out. Now people are pissed and sticking it to them. I say Take Two should suck it up and take their ass whooping they have coming for handling this all so stupidly.

As for the posters claiming its not the company at fault but the parents and retailers? That just doesn't make sense because how can the parents or retailers make an informed decision when the publisher lies about the type of content.

Admittedly, parents letting their 5 year old play GTA have problems, but that doesn't negate the responsibility of games makers for adhering to industry ratings codes. In fact, I fear Take Twos screw up could ruin the voluntary ESRB system and give the gov't grounds to try to step in and regulate the industry which would be terrible.

So, in conclusion, if Take Two has to take the fall for their bad decisions in order the save the rest of the industry from regulation, I say they should just fall on their sword already.

SenorWeird:

The problem with your analogy is that MS doesn't make a version of Word that is rated for Mature Audiences. GTA:SA was rated M. Most big retailers have a nationwide ID-check policy (Wal*Mart, Kmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, GameStop, EBGames, etc.) and so it falls squarely on the PARENTS who bought the game for their kids.

I have parents buy M-rated games for little kids all the time at my store. Even when warned about the content, they say "Oh, it's OK. He plays these all the time."

So when is LA going to start suing parents for providing restricted material to their children? Retailers and the game industry are doing their jobs with ratings, when will parents do their jobs and KNOW WHAT THEIR KIDS ARE PLAYING?!?!

One more thing: Have any of you actually SEEN the Hot Coffee mod in action?

It's a CLOTHED digital man and a nude digital woman (with barely any real details on her body) bumping up against each other. This is less "pornographic" than the Girls Gone Wild advertisements on basic cable TV. An episode of "The Man Show" had more sexuality and nudity.

What has people all upset over it is that this is a video game, and since there's this STUPID idea that all video games are made with kids in mind, it's SHOCKING when a video game features anything remotely sexual.

The same thing has happened for years with animation. Some people just assume animation is ALWAYS made with children in mind, because it's "just a cartoon." Bakshi caused shock and scorn when he made "Fritz the Cat" and people were APPALLED in 1986 when "Transformers: The Movie" was in theaters and featured autobots swearing ("Open! Open Goddammit!" among other things) and the actual on-screen death of major characters.

People need to get over their assumptions. Animation and video games are NOT automatically, by their very nature, "for kids." This is a misconception that leads to people overreacting and treating one form of media different than others.

If the "Hot Coffee" scenes were done with real, live actors in EXACTLY the way they appeared in the game (clothed CJ and all), you'd get no worse than an "R" rating on it. It would probably be allowed on HBO or Cinemax during prime time.

It being in a video game shouldn't make it any worse than if it were in a movie.

well isnt there something called the end user license agreementand i quote from an owners manual.....

"You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reproduce the software" and if i remember correctly that is how the "hot coffee mod" was found after dumping the code onto a computer....... this lawsuit has no legal bearing it will not succeed

well isnt there something called the end user license agreementand i quote from an owners manual.....

"You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reproduce the software" and if i remember correctly that is how the "hot coffee mod" was found after dumping the code onto a computer....... this lawsuit has no legal bearing it will not succeed

"With the fact that he's running for state attorney general, I assume he's trying to win the family vote by speaking out against videogames..."

That sounds about right. The only way i see this suit going through is if the state can prove take-two deliberately marketed to the underaged demographic. Even then its a very thin case, but in the current bizarro "neo christian" climate of george bush's america, i actually wouldnt be too surprised if they somehow pushed it through.

I do also find it funny how this lawsuit comes right off the heels of the take-two office fire. I wonder if any marketing data was lost...

"It's a CLOTHED digital man and a nude digital woman" -ZeroCorpse

Actually, the girls aren't naked in the original version either. We had to butcher the code and provide an extra 568KB download on the PC version to load in the naked "base" skins. IIRC, the PS2 version required about 100 lines of AR Max codes to do the same.

So, yea, fully clothed dry-humping.

The only thing T2 needs to worry about is if they lied (or were mistaken) about how the mini-game was accessed. However, that has little bearing on the situation, since the truth is you can't access the content without hacking the game, which the user makes the implicit agreement not to do. In that case, it is entirely in the users hands, and the company can do nothing about it. As for MARKETING to kids, that is simply false as well. Unfortunately, parents do buy this stuff without knowing what they are getting into. But I would sooner leave a million irresponsible parents alone, than support some half-baked ideas about government censorship of a fledgling medium. Look at what happened to comic books, and you will see what the notion that any media is "just for kids" can do.

Branewalker

"As for the posters claiming its not the company at fault but the parents and retailers? That just doesn't make sense because how can the parents or retailers make an informed decision when the publisher lies about the type of content." posted by jago

Seriously how can u say that when the esrb box that contains the product descriptors says that the game has mature sexual content, and still buy it for your freaking twelve year old and then get upset when a fucking sex mini game is uncovered, they have no right to be upset its on the fucking box......

the government should stop trying to make game publishers responsible for parental mistakes......honestly are we turning into a fascist state

sorry about that it is late it didnt click, i am just pissed off at the stupidity of others, seriously trying to draw attention to something that that you have made is ridiculous, its time that people start taking responsibilty for their actions......

(this isnt directed at you Jago, it is a general statement)