Blizzard vs. gaymers
Sara Andrews was recruiting players for her gay-and-lesbian-friendly guild when she received a warning from Blizzard
that if she didn't stop doing that, she'd be banished from the game.
Blizzard's argument in making this threat: bringing up such touchy subjects in the game world ultimately devolves into a nasty shouting match that creates a negative atmosphere for all players. By forbidding public discussion of such topics, Blizzard believes the game will be a more pleasant place for everyone. After all, who wants games to be invaded by bigots wielding incendiary placards? (No word on whether Blizzard also recommends that players who have created characters with darker skin tones immediately delete said characters and reroll as unpigmented characters. Darker skin tones invite racist remarks, after all, and we musn't create a negative game environment.)
Here's what an anonymous Blizzard employee who goes by the handle "Caydiem" had to say on the subject:
We encourage community building among our players with others of similar interests, and we understand that
guilds are one of the primary ways to forge these communities. However, topics related to sensitive real-world subjects
-- such as religious, sexual, or political preference, for example -- have had a tendency to result in communication
between players that often breaks down into harassment.
To promote a positive game environment for everyone and help prevent such harassment from taking place as best we
can, we prohibit mention of topics related to sensitive real-world subjects in open chat within the game, and we do our
best to take action whenever we see such topics being broadcast. This includes openly advertising a guild friendly to
players based on a particular political, sexual, or religious preference, to list a few examples. For guilds that wish
to use such topics as part of their recruiting efforts, our Guild Recruitment forum, located at our community Web site,
serves as one open avenue for doing so.
If Blizzard believes that discussion of sexual orientation "is not appropriate for the high fantasy setting of the World of Warcraft," (as stated in an email sent to Sara Andrews) then why does the company endorse heterosexual weddings? In an officially sponsored "Group Screenshot Contest," Blizzard chose this photo of a male and female character getting married in a chapel. By endorsing the heterosexual relationships but explicitly forbidding the mere discussion of homosexual topics, Blizzard is in fact discriminating against those who don't march to the hetero-normal drumbeat.
There's even more evidence that Blizzard is being inconsistent. If discussion of sexual orientation does not belong in the World of Warcraft, then Blizzard needs to explain why players who type "/silly" while playing male characters of the Tauren race are rewarded with a pre-recorded voice that says, "Homogenized? No, I prefer the ladies."
The question is not so much whether the company is discriminating (it is), but what its motives are for doing so. Some possibilities:
- accident: sometimes individual employees make mistakes or misapply policies. Reporting for In Newsweekly (a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender news and entertainment weekly) Alexander Sliwinski writes, "A series of e-mails back and forth concerning the incident, seems to make it clear that Blizzard may be inadvertently using a policy meant to protect GLBT people as a way to discriminate against them."
- ignorance: sometimes companies just don't really understand what it means to discriminate against a group of minorities. Sometimes it takes a court case or two to wake a company up.
- deliberate discrimination: We can't rule out the possibility that some higher-up at Blizzard is deliberately enforcing a policy that discriminates against the gay community.
- The guild that started it all by advertising in chat channels about their LGBT-friendly guild, and were promptly served notice that such advertisements are not allowed.
- In Newsweekly broke the news, from there it spread to:
- The Guardian Games Blog's Aleks Krotoski notes: "Eh?! This makes no sense, and perpetuates the view that the online space is straight, thus filtering out the very diverse set of people who enjoy a virtual life. It also suggests that they are happy to coddle those users who think it's OK to throw out homophobic epithets, of which--in their view--there must be many"
- Boing Boing's Cory Doctorow asks, "Will a game ever give players citizenship instead of just customership? Will players always be willing to treat games as their online homes if they have to rely on customer service ethos instead of the Constitution to assure them of a fair shake?"
- Law Geek asks, "So what, Blizzard now has a 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy?"
- Terra Nova's take includes a strong, mature discussion after a teensy little blog entry.
- WoW Insider's Jennie Lees takes a dig at the Xbox Live service, writing, "I don't want to be discriminated against in-game for my gender or sexuality--that's what Xbox Live is for."
- Even
CNET covers the story.
- MMorgy (warning: MMorgy's site banner is PG13) speculates on the impact that such policies might have on the game world: "watch as the interesting people leave due to crazy ass rules, the fun people leave due to creative stiffling, even in guild names, and see how nifty your world is then."










Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gary Larson's publicist @ Jan 31st 2006 7:40PM
This policy is going to end pretty quickly. With this kind if publicity I am counting down to a company reversal in...
5...
4...
3...
ill trooper @ Jan 31st 2006 7:47PM
"All Animals Are Created Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others"
- George Orwell's Animal Farm
There is no way Blizzard is "coming out" of this without looking weird. They should have let it be, but now they look like they're hypocrites. Having sterotypically hot woman-folk characters in bikinis and then saying that 'real world subjects' like sexuality are to be avoided looks crazy. What they imply is that 'horny homophobic man-geeks can experience sexuality' but anything else is frowned upon.
I think the best tack might be to say "We have reviewd our policies and anything goes, sorry"
The online community needs to be trusted to show others the respect of being an equal player - if someone begins acting in a hateful way, Blizzard should punish them, rather than imposing limits on the people who go online under the banner of their race, sex or sexuality. It's a much bigger problem than WoW - it's a racist homophobic party on XBox LIVE too...
Steve @ Jan 31st 2006 7:47PM
I fully support Blizzard in this. I think that its great that if this is motivated by personal views within the company (as this post's author seems to believe is 100% fact), then they are not afraid to stand up for their morals.
Some of us still believe in a God that doesn't change due to what society views as acceptable. Not condoning homosexuality doesn't make one a bigot. Bottom line: its Blizzard's game, and they can enforce it how they choose.
Let the flaming begin...
kat @ Jan 31st 2006 7:50PM
This artical was also mentioned earlier on The Consumerist where I first saw it;
http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/complaints/blizzard-enforces-antilesbian-probigot-guild-policy-151576.php
Zach @ Jan 31st 2006 7:51PM
Boo-yah! Blizzard, whether they know it or not, did something moral. Go figure.
Miharu @ Jan 31st 2006 7:51PM
They'd best get rid of the policy, I can't believe they're stopping people from saying they're homosexual.
Pixelantes Anonymous @ Jan 31st 2006 7:52PM
I think the people at Blizzard didn't really read their fantasy books too well.
All those fairies can't be straight (and I do mean that quite literally). Homosexual (and other strong sexual) content is quite common in fantasy literature. I think they're just trying to cover the fact that they didn't create polygons in the groin area.
I think they're taking political correctness to a level it doesn't need to go.
bv @ Jan 31st 2006 7:54PM
dude he states specifically : "For guilds that wish to use such topics as part of their recruiting efforts, our Guild Recruitment forum, located at our community Web site, serves as one open avenue for doing so."
why this big fatty whiny rant if theres already an optional outlet for people to profess their guild on guild action? Plus, this is a friggin' video game where you battle trees and unicorns, why would Blizzard make an effort to allow realism by any standards? Take your money elsewhere if you don't like it, no one forces you to be silent.
drn @ Jan 31st 2006 7:55PM
would it be wrong if Straight Guilds start murdering Gay Guilds?
Sid Icarus @ Jan 31st 2006 8:02PM
You christian bastards need a bullet to the face.
Your "Bible" is outdated, misleading and isnt worth the paper its wrote on
You can believe in all the fairy tales you want but you dont have the right to force your beliefs on other people.
Nate @ Jan 31st 2006 8:03PM
Steve,
What kinds of games do you play? I can't imagine a God who's down on gay people being really excited about His flock digging video games enough to waste their times reading a blog about articles about videogames.
Phyer @ Jan 31st 2006 8:03PM
I don't understand why people have to turn everything into a soapbox. It's a VIDEO GAME, not a place to push personal agendas, hold church gatherings or raise awareness for your personal independence. Go light monsters on fire or kill dragons with a sword - It's Blizzard's job to immerse you in their world, not the other way around.
While I hope this topic dies a short painful death.....Blizzard's PR department has had a handle on things of this nature for a long time, and they've squashed much less controversial things quickly and without remorse.
NeoWolf @ Jan 31st 2006 8:05PM
"Boo-yah! Blizzard, whether they know it or not, did something moral. Go figure."
Both a display of bigotry an lousy sense of morality all wrapped up in one. And I'm not talking being anti-gay either. Judging the outcome of someone's actions as moral is simply stupid. It's the intentions that count. Otherwise doctors are murderers and anyone that accidentally saved you in the process of trying to kill you is a hero.
ill trooper @ Jan 31st 2006 8:08PM
Funny to me how 'God-like' it is to some people to 'not condone homosexuality,' but yet accept it as moral to manufacture and sell a game that glorifies pagan magick and fantasy.
Some of y'alls might need to head back to Sundee-school!
People who wave the flag of "It's Blizzard's game!" come off as naive and borderline close-minded. But don't beat around the bush - just say what you're really trying to say: You don't want to be near gay WoW players. But do your thing; maybe you don't have any minorities in your fantasy, either.
Leeeeeeroy Jenkins!
redford @ Jan 31st 2006 8:08PM
gaming needs to wake up from the rampant racism and sexual discrimination in general. Been on xbox live lately? The Clan winces.
Then again, I've never played the game. Does the experience of playing drop that much in quality when people are shouting at each other? Can there be designated "soap box" areas?
Probot @ Jan 31st 2006 8:09PM
Blizzard's justification is laughable. Here's what they're basically saying:
"If you are openly gay, people may harrass you. So if you're openly gay, we're going to ban you to prevent that." They're punishing the victim.
In the end, it's their game and they can do whatever they want, but I don't see this ending well for them.
minus @ Jan 31st 2006 8:11PM
unlike race, religion or gender, sexuality is an idea. If a person walks into a bar (stereotypes aside) you can tell if they are a woman, black, muslim etc. You are even stuck with religion. These are things you are born with and can't really change. You will not see Isreali hindus and you dont really see Japanese jews. Even if you convert, you will be associated with the religion of your race.
On the other hand, a homosexual walks into a bar and there is no way to tell they are gay. This is the same as if a republican or a democrat walked into a bar. Adding this element into gameplay which is supposed to be a distraction will simply bring in the real world. Next thing you know, there will be a democratic guild and republican guild who will probably kill each other on sight. Sure you could say that is what the game is for, but people won;t be killing each other's characters as an element of gameplay but because they dislike the other player in the real world. Do you really want the real world to creep into your fantasy world?
Shaun @ Jan 31st 2006 8:22PM
This is completely hypocritical and illogical. If Blizzard is out to make a life-like world for online gamers, why would they attempt to eliminate minorities? Sounds more like Hitler's version of the world than reality. It's utterly disrespectful towards its consumers, I'm shocked they even tried to get away with it. Homosexuals have been outrageously discriminated against in the video game realm. I've heard tons of homophobic comments over xbox, it's disgusting. As for what's moral or what God wants, I have to laugh. I doubt anyone preaching that on this site has even read the bible, but it rings true for most of this country. I believe the doctrine also stressed acceptance and condemned judging. I'm pretty sure it also outlawed eating crab or lobster as anything crawling on the ocean floor is an "abomination." I'm not knocking any religion, but if you're going to follow one, the least you could do is know what you're talking about.
Tre Parker @ Jan 31st 2006 8:26PM
I don't think that Blizzard is right on doing this. Generally people feel more comfortable hanging out with other people who they are similar to, whether it is race, religion, personality, etc. I don't see the recruiting is a bad thing, but only to make gays feel a little more comfortable while online gaming. I mean think about it... there is a kid in my class who is gay and he gets made fun of ALL the time. A lot of people don't like, or hate, gays, bisexuals, transvestites, etc... I think she was only doing this to make them (gays) feel better and to enjoy themselves more while playing with other hetrosexuals over the internet.
Steve @ Jan 31st 2006 8:29PM
Way to put words in my mouth guys. Nate, the God I believe in isn't "down on gays". I believe in a God that loves all of his children, even the sinners. Not to turn this into a religious rant, but believing in the morals and teachings of Jesus Christ does not make someone close-minded. And btw, don't tell me that God isn't cool with me reading Joystiq. You just worry about what you do with your time, ok? Thanks.
On the other hand, calling someone anti-gay or whatever because they don't support your view makes you the close-minded one.
And for the record, I don't play WoW, and I don't have a problem being around gays. But the vocal minority in this case needs to stop throwing around words like "bigot" and "naive".
Phyer @ Jan 31st 2006 8:32PM
I think the comments to this post so far are the perfect poster-child as to why Blizzard doesn't allow this.
PS: For the Horde!
CYRiX @ Jan 31st 2006 8:34PM
Why d on't they just warn the people who make fun of the gays?
Who cares if there gays, just leave them alone and they'll leave us alone.
Jeremy @ Jan 31st 2006 8:36PM
""Boo-yah! Blizzard, whether they know it or not, did something moral. Go figure."
Both a display of bigotry an lousy sense of morality all wrapped up in one. And I'm not talking being anti-gay either. Judging the outcome of someone's actions as moral is simply stupid. It's the intentions that count. Otherwise doctors are murderers and anyone that accidentally saved you in the process of trying to kill you is a hero."
Good intentions + bad actions=MORALITY
Juan Carlos @ Jan 31st 2006 8:40PM
Sid Icarus,
As ignorant as Steve's, etc... statements were yours were even more ignorant. Not every Christian on the planet is trying to impose their religion on other people, nor are we all homophobes.
To call the bible an outdated piece of paper is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever heard. Are the basic laws covering human morality (the 10 commandments) outdated? Do you believe that you should have the right to disrespect your parents, kill people, steal, and take a friends mate? This is also igrnoing that fact that the bible is one of the most important secondary source texts in history covering several time periods, and is one of the greatest compilations of past human culture in existence.
Saying the bible is out of date and worthless is on the same level as saying the Torah is out of date and worthless and the Koran is out of date and worthless. Way to be an accepting person as you seem to think you are.
As for the whole Blizzard thing, if they had not had references to heterosexual marriages, and that stupid "silly" joke then I may have been more forgiving of their actions. However since they seem to think it's ok to make fun of gay people in addition to keeping gay people under wraps I'd say they're dead wrong and it is discriminatory.
Openly gay people have the right to say their gay (even if it may invite jokes). It's their right to make up their on mind as to whether or not they want to say their gay, especially since their the ones who feel the effects of doing so.
Lekko @ Jan 31st 2006 8:40PM
I think both sides are at fault to some extent. If you start a guild like that, you shouldn't be prejudiced against recruiting straight players. Besides, if you pubically advertise your guild as such, you're kinda inviting troubble. On the other hand, Blizzard didn't want controversy on their hands, which is why they rejected the group. I honestly agree with both sides, although I think Blizzard should have taken different actions.
Both 'sides' just wanted to have fun. The guild wanted to have fun with like-minded individuals, and Blizzard wanted a fun atmosphere. But it turned political. Happens all too often.
Phyer @ Jan 31st 2006 8:43PM
"You're an ignorant bigot if you don't believe what I just said."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....HA....sorry (crys)
That was probably the best quote i've seen on the net in long time. Three cheers for mr. open-minded victim, you're really established your credibility as a free thinker there.
cyberfelon @ Jan 31st 2006 8:45PM
Come on, there's nothing really straight about guilds in the first place, so why do we even need gay and lesbian guilds? If anything, it's the guild that is discriminating by creating a guild for only one type of person. How would you feel if I started a guild for white people only?
Blizzard isn't banning gay people from WoW, although judging by the comments you'd think otherwise. They just don't want Azeroth to be one big protest full of feminist rallies and socialist tea parties.
Wolf @ Jan 31st 2006 8:45PM
Just let the fags have their guild... then gang up and kick their ass whenever you see them, forcing them out because they arn't wanted in this world.
Wha @ Jan 31st 2006 8:48PM
Some of you people are way too easily offended. "Eliminate minorities?" For crying out loud. They didn't ban her when they found out she was gay did they? No! They asked her to stop bringing the issue up. Most people play online to avoid real life or to have a new social outlet. We hear enough about this topic everywhere else, on both sides.
On a side note, those of you who think anyone who does not condone homosexuality is homophobic: you are being just as judgemental as the homophobes. Do I have a fear of men who cheat on their wives? No. Get over yourselves.
Goober @ Jan 31st 2006 8:59PM
Whoa whoa whoa, stuck with religion? Religion is not a choice? What the hell world do you people LIVE in? Seriously, open your eyes.
Ollie @ Jan 31st 2006 9:00PM
#10, Sid:
Your argument is amazingly hypocritical and represents all that I hate in the 'gay rights' movement.
I assume you take the view that it's bigoted not to 'like' homosexuality or regard it as morally acceptable? This doesn't stop you from penning what could be felt to be incredibly offensive and derisory comments about the Bible / Christianity (remember that Christians only look to create a good and wholesome world).
Why is it right that homosexual people should be able to 'force their beliefs on people' (to use your terminology) while it's wrong that Christians should express their views.
Ultimately, peoples' religious leanings often result in them having to make difficult choices which will often inconvenience on themselves. It could be said that homosexuals who advocate homosexuality are merely furthering their own cause / showing selfish self-interest.
Pixelantes Anonymous @ Jan 31st 2006 9:00PM
Lekko, but they weren't prejudiced against recruiting straight players. They were recruiting GLBT-FRIENDLY people, gay or straight.
Wanderer @ Jan 31st 2006 9:01PM
Man, again with the idiot Christian forces. Not all of us are like that, ya know.
Why are Christians that are so concerned with the literal translation of the bible playing a game with magic in it in the first place?
The Bible is very certain about the origins of magic. Why is that particular thing alright, when homosexuality isn't?
If you disallow a Guild from forming because of what may happen to the members, isn't that a bit like telling a raped woman that she deserved it for being hot?
portnoy @ Jan 31st 2006 9:01PM
Blizzard has every right to endeavor to create a specific user experience for their products as they see fit. They are in business to make money with a product, not change the world. They will succeed or fail based on their decisions as to how to design/impliment/market said product. If enough people appreciate the user experience blizzard creates, and continue using it, they will succeed, if enough people are offended and dislike the user experience, they will leave and blizzard will fail. As long as blizzard is hiring and firing according to antidiscrimination laws, the product they provide is up to them and is subject to free market forces. If you like it, support them, if you don't, then dont give them any of your gaming dollars. Thats the way the business world works whether you like it or not. To complain about it is naive. To inject religion into it is missing point. If gays want to take their MMORPG dollars elsewhere, thats WoWs loss. There is no bigotry or hipocrisy here, or any judgement being made about lifestyles or sexual preference. Just a company trying to please as many customers as possible by creating a specific user experience. Unfortunately you can't please everyone all the time, that doesn't mean you hate someone just because they are not your target demographic. Should I be mad at victoria's secret because their products don't really make an effort to include me? Are they bigots because they don't make underware that is something a straight male would wear? Of course not, its rediculous to expect a company to make a product that is for everyone. Likewise, if WoW gay edition were released tomorrow and it was assumed all characters were gay, I would have no problem with that. I wouldn't complain or call them anti-straight. I just wouldn't buy it. Simple as that.
clinton92000 @ Jan 31st 2006 9:02PM
In reference to post 19
Woppitydoo political correctness is bull.. everyone is a minority unto themself. If your "gay" start being happy and quit complaining. I don't take offence on someone's point of view. I don't hate Gays either we are all people but... that doesn't mean I have to accept what they say or practice as my own beliefs and that my friend.. if you ever read the Bible you may know. Acceptance as a friend but not in belief. Ever hear about Sodum and Gamora..google it, then maybe you will know more of what your talking about.
rip @ Jan 31st 2006 9:07PM
A few things: one, like another poster said, a lot of Blizzard games can be boiled down to racial wars. Just an observation, not reading into it at all. And I love Blizzard games.
Another thing is, Blizzard is based in Orange County, one of the most conservative places in the country. They seem to practice "compassionate conservatism" where they help others as long as it doesn't hurt them. And welcome minorities, as long as they don't have sex with their daughters. Basically they are ok with minorities and different viewpoints as long as it doesn't affect them in any way, shape or form.
Now I'm not saying that Blizzard consciously acts this way at all, but there has to be some rubbing off of those values. If most of your employess have certain values, the company is going to have certain values.
Having said all that, Blizzard is in a tricky situation here. They are ostensibly doing this, it seems, to protect minority groups. But in doing so, are restricting their rights. Kind of an "I'm doing this for your own good" thing. Sadly though, this is a specious argument. A lot of whites in the south used to say the same thing... "its better for you and safer if you just keep to yourselves."
It seems that Blizzard's intentions are good, but the actions aren't. Unfortunately, imposing one's value system on someone else isn't a solution.
Ultimately its up to the community to deal with it. If the community wants to devolve into a bigoted, hateful cesspool, let them. Ha, that's what xbox live did ;) btw, I think xbox live's problem, along with the internet in general, is that there is a lack of personal accountability.
bd @ Jan 31st 2006 9:13PM
"You will not see Isreali hindus and you dont really see Japanese jews. Even if you convert, you will be associated with the religion of your race."
That's not true; if there are jews that do that, then they base themselves on their opinion, not on their religion. Their religion (or the Torah) embraces everyone that is willing to believe in god and follow jewish tradition, so that would be hypocritical; in fact, anyone that takes the religion voluntarily is (or should be) more respected than the ones born, since the ones born jewish didn't choose their religion in the first place.
Anyway...
I think Blizzard is doing the right thing, regardless of the controversy; it's just a game, for fuck's sake, not a political discussion. Why do gay people have to tell everyone "Hey, I'm gay so don't you dare discriminate me, alright!?!", when they could just as well not say anything, since after all nobody cares, so why don't you just play like everybody else and shut it? Just like feminists.
If you want a game that involves politics, go here:
www.nationstates.net
There are tons of states and countries that don't really support gay marriage, and you are asking a game to do that... I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's just immature and ridiculous. If you wanna get married, why don't you just go and do it for real? Why don't you just enjoy your mate, regardless if you are wed or not?
"I don't want to be discriminated against in-game for my gender or sexuality--that's what Xbox Live is for."
Well, why do people keep complaining about racism in LIVE, if it's easier to know your gender than your race then?
Nintendo is doing great with their WiFi service that preserves anonymity. Just gaming, no BS involved.
AssemblyLineHuman @ Jan 31st 2006 9:24PM
Okay, first, on the gay rights issue as a whole, gays should have the right to get married. When they marry, they aren't imposing their beliefs on anyone else. They're simply making a personal choice. How would you feel if I told you that you couldn't wear one of those Christian t-shirts with the pun on some real-world product, because I felt that it mocked the product and because Christian values offend me?
As for the Blizzard issue, they are clearly showing bias against homosexuals, especially with their heterosexual imagery and that little gay joke (as in a joke about homosexuality, not a joke that is gay). From the information provided, it is fairly clear that this guild is nothing more than the WoW version of the Gay-Straight Alliance clubs that are in so many public schools today. The reason they are there is because the schools allow students to create clubs and choose not to force their own beliefs on the students. If Blizzard does not mind discriminating against and alienating the gay people who play World of Warcraft, that is their choice, but I feel that what they are doing is wrong.
ill trooper @ Jan 31st 2006 9:40PM
"If you like it, support them, if you don't, then dont give them any of your gaming dollars. Thats the way the business world works whether you like it or not. To complain about it is naive."
Not true. If the people who support and play this game complain about a particular aspect of policy or gameplay, Blizzard can opt to change it. And economics do not excuse a company or product from discrimination, which is really where this is headed for Blizzard if they don't handle it delicately and with respect. It's easy to say 'go elsewhere' with your dollar, but the FACT is that nothing is touching WoW right now, there is really no other place to go, whether you're gay or whatever.
Something as large and as influential as WoW is a special situation that needs to be looked at with 'real world' eyes rather than 'hypothetical' eyes - if something is this large and is basically a monopoly for 2005-?, it needs to accept the fact that it is a 'role-model' and model (fantasy) world that many will be influenced by, even in their real-world everyday lives. Accepting certain equalities of society while ignoring others is not acceptable with something this large. Juan Carlos put it well when he said:
"As for the whole Blizzard thing, if they had not had references to heterosexual marriages, and that stupid "silly" joke then I may have been more forgiving of their actions. However since they seem to think it's ok to make fun of gay people in addition to keeping gay people under wraps I'd say they're dead wrong and it is discriminatory."
I would derive that gay players do NOT want a special WoW for 'gay players,' but rather, would like to play in a fantasy world as rich and large as the current WoW is, straight, black, dork, whatever. What it seems the woman wanted was a way to meet and play with other players like herself, to enjoy some WoW without being harrassed for her sexual preference. Similar to forming alliances with people who speak their same language for instance.
Portnoy, you only got half of your analogy correct... As a male, you can go wear the Victoria's Secret if you want. But if you did, you might think it was invasive if Victoria's Secret contacted you and your cross-dressing friends, and prohibited you from doing so...
Sexuality could only be the beginning. Did Blizzard ask Chinese gamers to 'take it easy' and 'stop playing' because of the blind lash-outs towards goldfarmers and the assumption they were Chinese? No, but this policy could extend as far as they choose if the thought that "It's their game, they can do what they want" continues. It's getting too big for that. Blizzard needs to accept that their fantasy world is starting to take on aspects of the real world, good and bad.
BTW, Steve, you really got cranked up for a guy who challenged everyone to 'begin flaming..." Not really able to handle it huh? Seems you're trying to pull a Bill O'Reilly by calling those who oppose Blizzard's call a 'vocal minority...' Seems pretty split down the middle to me.
And thanks, Wolf, for that great plan. Send that one to Blizzard and CC it to the KKK.
007craft @ Jan 31st 2006 9:48PM
I dont think its write to be able to create an gay and lesbian clan. What would gay people say if they saw me make a Strait only clan? They would be shocked and apauled. Well thats how I feel when I hear of a gay and lesbian clan.
This is a freaking video game where you dont even see the person. Must we bring our sexual orientation into it? Lets just pretend each person out there has no preferance whatsoever. WOW is about having fun playing a video game, not a dating sim.
Im also agaisnt those all girl clans. WTF is up with those. Imagine we made an all guys clan? Female gamers everywhere would riot. Same goes for all american clans, all white clans, all whatever clans. There should be no out-side game restrictions for joining any clan. inside game restrictions are fine tho, like a no noobs clan of some sort.
portnoy @ Jan 31st 2006 9:49PM
"They seem to practice "compassionate conservatism" where they help others as long as it doesn't hurt them. And welcome minorities, as long as they don't have sex with their daughters."
This is a hugely bigoted statement. What you are describing has NOTHING to do with the compassionate conservative philosophy. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you are making up a definitition based on your personal bias.
You claim to want more personal accountability. I say you should be accountable for your statement and look up what real compassionate conservatives believe and the apologize.
And Orange County conservative? Thats a joke. No wonder you are lost when it comes to what conservative means if you think orange county is "one of the most conservative places in the country". Yeah, theres lots of rich people there who don't like higher taxes, but Orange county is VERY FAR from conservative so your whole theory is a waste and it just goes to show you really don't know what you are talking about.
In fact a survey shows 62% of OC residents believe gays should be able to serve openly in the military. This is much higher than the national average.
Check out this link. There are dozens like it debunking the false stereotype that orange county is some socially conservative haven. Anyone interested in politics would know this stereotype is hugely false and unsubstatiated by the facts.
http://today.uci.edu/news/release_detail.asp?key=822
Fox @ Jan 31st 2006 9:49PM
This is all one big ugly slanging match.
Homosexuals will be discriminated against in as many virtual worlds as you like, as long as there are people that think preaching hate should be as acceptable as preaching tolerance, that homosexuals bring such problems upon themselves, basically, that as long as the majority experiences no discrimination or difficulty, then to hell with anyone who says different.
I advise you all to toughen your skins a bit.
I get called gay and plenty worse on a daily basis over Xbox Live, and oddly enough, do you know what makes them shut up right quick? When I tell them that they actually -were- just beaten by a gay guy.
So when they talk the talk, turn the other cheek and be the better man. When it's time to walk the walk, headshot 'em as many times as you can, and be the better gamer. Because, all things considered, the virtual world isn't a place for these debates. The real world is.
ill trooper @ Jan 31st 2006 9:51PM
"If you wanna get married, why don't you just go and do it for real? Why don't you just enjoy your mate, regardless if you are wed or not?"
Because if the state or country doesn't recognize a marriage, you can't qualify for the same loans, tax rates or insurance policies as married straight people. That is the real debate, don't let people who oppose it paint the picture as simple as 'just be together and be happy.'
SilverScyth @ Jan 31st 2006 9:54PM
Xbox Live's Zone system in conjunction with an EFFECTIVE rep system has worked wonders on the community.
SilverScyth @ Jan 31st 2006 9:56PM
Ill Trooper.
It's because heterosexual couples can have children.
You can't escape biology.
bd @ Jan 31st 2006 10:06PM
"Because if the state or country doesn't recognize a marriage, you can't qualify for the same loans, tax rates or insurance policies as married straight people. That is the real debate, don't let people who oppose it paint the picture as simple as 'just be together and be happy.'"
I know that, but I was talking about the game, not reality. To tell you the truth, I don't give a damn if gays want to get married; if they want to, so be it, it's not like it will bother me.
In a game though, why start a KKK vs. Gay Gay Gay flame war, really?
Wonder Cheese @ Jan 31st 2006 10:06PM
ill trooper, you don't seem to grasp some basic realities, and you contradict yourself at every turn.
"I think the best tack might be to say "We have reviewd our policies and anything goes, sorry""
Genius. Yeah, that would work.
"The online community needs to be trusted to show others the respect of being an equal player - if someone begins acting in a hateful way, Blizzard should punish them,"
First you say the online community needs to be trusted, then you contradict yourself by saying they can't be trusted. Xbox live, remember? So your solution is to say anything goes...except whatever it is you deem hateful, then Blizzard should step in. Which is it? Anything goes - as you suggest...
Or Blizzard steps in - as you also suggest.
"rather than imposing limits on the people who go online under the banner of their race, sex or sexuality."
No one imposed limits on who could go online. They imposed limits on what people were allowed to say, in their game. Totally different. False argument.
"It's a much bigger problem than WoW - it's a racist homophobic party on XBox LIVE too..."
Are you proposing something be done about this? Earlier, you proposed trusting the online community. You don't seem to have any idea what you want. Your enormous contradictions and circular reasoning demonstrate why some rules need to be established. It prevents Blizzard from having to analyze every possible chat scenario after the fact. To make certain chat off limits in broad strokes is the only way to reduce some strife. Not to mention that it's consistent across those topics. You seem very confused. Quote some Orwell, maybe it'll make you seem like you have a point.
r0Be @ Jan 31st 2006 10:18PM
Viva la Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!! He says I'm cool, your cool and everybody else is cool. Leave people alone. They weren't hurting anybody. Why try to make them act a certain way to make yourself feel better. Quit bothering yourself with what other people are doing.
The ten commandments rule! But there isn't one about being gay or not. So it must be all right.
The ten commandments are superceded by the golden rule in my book....Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Whatever I was doing, if it wasn't affecting somebody in a negative way then I wouldn't want anybody to say I couldn't do it.
Nate @ Jan 31st 2006 10:28PM
Steve,
No offense, but you believe in a God who "loves" his children. You don't mean love in any conventional sense; rather, you mean the kind of "love" where, when push comes to shove, God will send gays to Hell. That's not love, that's "love," the kind of special "love" that only God can get away with.
Secondly, I'm not saying God cares whether you read Joystiq or not (presumably He would have more important things on his mind.) It's just that I have trouble imagining a God that is really against two men holding hands but is totally ok with simulated car crashes, time-wasting puzzle games, and thunderous cries of HEADSHOT! as you virtually murder another one of His children. It's seems contradictory to me. (There's no contradiction, of course, if you don't believe in God at all or believe in a God that isn't a douchebag.)
Dave @ Jan 31st 2006 10:29PM
Why does anybody care? People aren't even allowed to be gay in a fictional world? Apparently, even in Azeroft, Bush is President.