Carmack: Xbox 360 as id Software's "primary platform"

by Ross Miller { Jan 31st 2006 at 5:30PM }

Say what you will about its gameplay, but Doom 3 was a visually stunning game for those who had the PC gaming rig to play it. We say this to remind you that id Software's John Carmack and his cohorts at id Software are technical wizards when it comes to presentation. As the next generation of consoles prepare to launch, Carmack is backing the first man out the gate: Microsoft's Xbox 360.

Speaking to PC Gamer, Carmack discusses the challenges with programming for consoles with multiple processors: "they can quote these incredibly high numbers of giga-flops or tera-flops or whatever, but in reality...they're significantly slower than a modern high-end PC." Carmack has made a living in the PC gaming field, so naturally's he is going to be a bit biased, but he still praises the PS3 and Xbox 360 for their graphics systems.

That said, Carmack does call the Xbox 360 a "really sweet development system," noting that Microsoft's recently-launched console "will probably be id's primary development platform" - so if you are a console gamer who has to get his or her Wolfenstein fix, rest assured it'll likely make it to the Xbox 360. Let's hope, though, that they get more accustomed to fixing some of the lag issue found in Quake IV.

[Update: fixed a typo or three.]

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

cyberfelon @ Jan 31st 2006 5:37PM

Doom 3 is one of the nicest looking games made up to this point, and Carmack got it running on the original Xbox. Just imagine what he could do with the 360.

Quake IV isn't a good example since it was clearly rushed to meet the launch window. I'm talking about a game built from the ground up to take advantage of every last drop of power in the 360.

jromz03 @ Jan 31st 2006 5:42PM

No doubt about it, the engine that Doom3 uses is one of the most advance piece of programming.

But in the end Doom3 (and to some extent Quake 4) didn't really live to the hype. Doom3 is beautiful, that is fact but IMHO everything else seems to be 'meh'.

But it's still good, it means that the engine will be available for the 360 and that means other game-devs would like use it for future 360 titles.

So it's all good.

jay @ Jan 31st 2006 5:45PM

Woot!!

Take that PS3 and Revo fans!

We get Quake5 and Doom4!
Oh wait... Quake4 and Doom3 were total garbage.
The Doom3 can barely handle it's indoor scenes on a 6800GT.

Denigod @ Jan 31st 2006 5:58PM

You misspelled 'incredible' in the second paragraph. feel free to delete this.

TheRealMaxPower @ Jan 31st 2006 6:01PM

Wolfenstein alone is worth getting a 360. The best game on Live to date is Return to Castle Wolfenstein: The Tides of War.

Hopefully their other franchises play much better than the last 2 did. Doom 3 on Xbox was a stretch and the did a great job. Quake 4 was rushed and I cannot blame them for the results they got. I bet they learned a ton while porting it to 360.

Id Software is one of the best developers out there. I would love to see MS wrap up a console exclusive deal with them for this Generation. As long as they can still make PC games, they would go along with it.

Chad Smith @ Jan 31st 2006 6:07PM

Spell check - icnredibly ?

jon @ Jan 31st 2006 6:08PM

Now the only problem was id pretty much created the keyboard/mouse setup. How are you ever going to replicate that setup on a console (bar the Revolution)??? Besides Doom 3 was crap and Quake IV was average at best (and even then it stuttered on the 360).

Rare Hare @ Jan 31st 2006 6:18PM

seems an odd choice, since the PS3 will have USB keyboard and mouse support.. but still understandable since Carmack has stated before how much more he likes developing for the 360.

SymetriX @ Jan 31st 2006 6:32PM

This isn't too odd of him to say since programming for the PC and programming for either Xbox is very similar. They are all based on a DirectX graphics API. I'm sure the 360 will continue to see plenty of PC ports because of this, but are PC ports really the best console games?

Pete @ Jan 31st 2006 6:48PM

Didn't carmack already say all of this stuff like 6 months ago ?

Ptaaty @ Jan 31st 2006 7:13PM

I don't know why people say KB/M isn't supported it is, just not allowed in games for fairness reasons.

Just try connecting your USB keyboard to your 360. It should work fine for text entry.

Morder @ Jan 31st 2006 7:28PM

wow...i can't remember the last time i bought a game by id

Stuka @ Jan 31st 2006 7:34PM

If only id had some decent IP anymore instead of just rehashing the same four properties 20 times each.

id fell off.

Brody Brooks @ Jan 31st 2006 7:52PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought John Carmack decided to make Doom 3 his last game and move on to privateered rocket science? Did he change his mind and decide to remain in the gaming scene?

I'm confused about this. Yes, he still gets up and talks at major conventions and shares his thoughts on platforms from a master programmer's point of view, but is he still ACTIVELY doing programming work for games at id?

Jago @ Jan 31st 2006 9:40PM

Sorry but Doom 3 was NOT a good looking game. Last time I checked shadows don't have hard edges and the whole thing about not putting the flashlight on the gun b/c it added to the "suspense" in the game was a bad copout.

The Unreal Engine is a much better engine, it's more versatile and the lighting system in the new engine just blows away anything that Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. is capable of doing.

He seems to think that the game engine is the most important thing in a game and it shows b/c the gameplay in Doom 3, Quake 4, etc. are all pretty shallow. Running around and mindlessly shooting anything that moves is not good gameplay.

retro @ Jan 31st 2006 10:12PM

Man, this makes me really depressed. A company who's games are all indentical first person shooters is commiting to a system that will already be overwhelmed by shooting games. This makes me want to buy an xbox. :|

Seriously, iD is completely unoriginal now. Doom was good. Quake was okay.

But seriously, they have to be the shallowest games company out there. They only make one type of game. All their games are rehashes of their other games.

Matt @ Jan 31st 2006 10:47PM

To #9: Actually I doubt that's the reason, because Carmack makes all the iD graphics engines in OpenGL. It's the other things like input that they use directX for. and if it's the rendering api that you're concentrated on, the ps3, which uses open gl, would be more comfortable to him. it's things like cpu structure and the graphics card that had him interested.

To #16: Which engine came out in 2004, Doom 3's or Unreal? Wait that's right, Unreal Engine 3 isn't out even now. The fact of the matter is that your comparing a current-gen engine (albeit it uses bump-mapping) with a next-gen engine.

As the for article...well...I read this around quakecon last year. Meh.

SuicideNinja @ Jan 31st 2006 11:47PM

Rare Hare, the 360 DOES support USB devices. Keyboard support right now is available. Mouse support could easily be added if so desired.

Doom 3 did look good, and the fact that they got it to run so well on the Xbox was amazing. The game was stale though, I will admit.

I don't understand what all the gripes are on Quake 4. Yes, it hiccuped when turning sometimes. But they weren't using the better abilities of the processor, likely due to time contraints. I like Quake 4; it's much better than PDZ.

For the moment, the 360 seems to be the natural choice. It's versatile, and has excellent online support, and they've already had experience with the system. Sure, they have PS3 devkits, but there are no PS3 systems yet. Sony can only offer hype at the moment.

Hopefully we see developers choosing both systems so we can see which system will actually prove better overall. The fact that exclusives are selling systems right now sucks. If I dislike Sony's products, but want to play a specific game, it should still be available to me. Or vice versa.

Since that won't be the case, I really hope someone makes an 360-PS3 controller adapter so I don't have use that crappy dual-shock design controller.

Jago @ Feb 1st 2006 12:43AM

Unreal Engine 3 is being used by tons of studios for various platforms (PC, PS3, X360 and Revolution) AND it looks better then even the upcoming ID Software-engine games.

Basheron @ Feb 1st 2006 2:18AM

The gamming Gods have spoken! Hail John Carmack and id software!

/bow

bandit @ Feb 1st 2006 12:59PM

Thanks for jumping on Jago before I did Matt, Lets get it straight. The Unreal engine is NOT some mystical engine that noone else can come close to. RATHER it is a collection of various game deelopment techniques. The thing that makes the unreal engine look so good is the use of normal mapping which ALL next gen engines should use. a good example is Elven, Wardevil and anumber of other excellent looking titles in the works. The unreal engine i just popular because, 1) its the most complete middleware tools available, and number 2) its development gui is extremely artist friendly which means you can higher artists and general designers to create the worlds rather than paying a ton of money in programmers. If you have every created a level for an unreal game (which im sure you havent) then you understand how user friendly epics tools are. The same and even better graphical prowess can be seen using other engines. Again the EPIC engine is nothing but a COLLECTIONS of game design techniques in an easy to use package.

Gianni Gotti @ Feb 1st 2006 1:31PM

Hmmmm.....
This is interesting.
Hideo Kojima praises the PS3 and he is accussed of being on the Sony payroll.
Carmack endorses the xcast1.5 and the fanboys marvel at how well-reasoned and objective a decision it is?
Until Carmack (1) Has enough money to buy a flashlight that attaches to his combat vest and (2) has any track record in delivering CONSOLE games I won't give a flying kahuna what he has to say.

Kojimas boys, Epic and others (with stronger console track records) have already shown that the PS3 is a powerful machine for experienced CONSOLE developers. Id is still busy doing graphics upgrades for gameplay models that are 20 years old. Can't wait for Carmacks version of Tetris!!!

Marco Mailbox Head @ Feb 1st 2006 2:09PM

To set the record straight:

Quit being lemmings by insulting Doom 3. Doom 3 may not have revolutionized the genre, but frankly, it didn't have to, because id practically INVENTED the genre. That people were frustrated by the flashlight issue is precisely why it was so effective -- it forced you to feel less powerful and smaller as a force, so that the monsters were always one step ahead. It was a cinematic idea. Crude, yes a little bit, but effective.

Doom 3 sold like hell, continues to sell, and has made id ass loads of money. It continued the tradition of the greatest FPS EVER - Doom 2. The market is driven by casual gamers, not hardcore fanatics who look to video games to fulfill their lives.

Jago @ Feb 1st 2006 2:37PM

"If you have every created a level for an unreal game (which im sure you havent) then you understand how user friendly epics tools are."

Correction...I have used the Unreal Engine and have created assets and levels using the engine. I've done it both for school projects and on a personal level.

Hell I have a friend who is currently using Unreal Engine 3 at Midway Chicago...and he loves it.

You can spin it anyway you want to, but the Epic engines look better and are more customizable (hence the reason why it is being used so much now) then anything ID has created.

bandit @ Feb 1st 2006 5:47PM

If you are trying to compare the doom3 engine to the unreal engine then you are way out of line. While the doom 3 engine supports Pixel shader 3.0, the unreal engine is DEPENDANT on it. This allows full use of normal, parrallax, bump, etc. mapping. Im going to assume what you say of your experience is true, but to compare two engine from different generations is absurd. For a FAIR comparison the unreal 2.5 engine versus doom 3 is a MUCH bettere comparison. Thats the same engine that ran the latest unreal tournament as well as the more recent xbox unreal versions. I personally absolutely hate ID with the exception of enemy territory, but I do recognize technical skill when I see it, I just think in general the gameplay sucks. Basically the Unreal 3.0 engine is merely the FIRST next gen engine out the door. Others will follow. Others have already been created which give better visuals. As explained before the UE3.0 simply is the easiest most complete next gen engine available right now.