Japan chooses its all-time top 100 list of games; Western games feel left out
Famitsu
has released the results of Japanese gamers' votes for the 100 best games of all time with Final Fantasy X
sitting pretty at the top of the heap--and Western games almost getting completely shut out.While this blogger thrills to the high placement of a strategy RPG like Tactics Ogre in the list, there's an odd amount of cultural shock in seeing at least 7 of the top 10 being traditional RPGs, something you'd rarely see in a similar Western list. And has anyone heard of Machi: Unmei no Kousaten for the Sega Saturn? It's apparently #5 on the Famitsu list.
At any rate, to compensate for our sorry Western developer showing with Japanese gaming otaku today, here's a list of other lists compiled a lot closer to America (okay, they're probably all from America) that better fit our gaijin sensibilities. Wait, the original Super Mario Bros. is #21 on the Japanese list? That's just crazy, man... ker-razy! (Crazy like a raccoon?)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
pete @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:00AM
This from a people that consider Sailor Moon to epitomize sensuality. /Pass/
Asz @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:00AM
That list doesn't suprise me too much. While i'd love to have seen Half-Life on that list, when I actually try and think of outstanding western entries into the videogame world, I nearly draw a blank. What really surprises me is that FFX beat out FFVII, thats downright amazing. I'm not much for FF games but I defintely agree X trumps VII.
soco @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:02AM
it's a shame they're missing some of the few good western games, but it's not a surprise.
what is a surprise is that the entire Phantasy Star series seems to have been shut-out. Phantasy Star II being one of the top 10 RPGs i've played in my life.
Paul @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:10AM
Final Fantasy X the best game of all time?
For the most part I hate "traditional" Japanese RPGs, but even if I didn't, there's a lot of ones better than freakin FFX. Like, FF7, 6, 5, or 4, Mother 2, Paper Mario 1 or 2, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Xenogears, my God the list goes on.
Japan sucks.
Nate @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:18AM
Funny thing is....
Final Fantasy X isn't even the best Final Fantasy of all-time....let alone the best game of all-time.
How can you have a game @ no. 1 that is only a few years old? It hasn't even had a chance to set in yet, where everyone can see the true greatness and timeless qualities in it (eg Ocarina Of Time, Super Marios Bros., Soul Calibur).
Eh, it's all opinion anyway....and this was submitted by readers, right? I guess the most popular games will always win then...haha.
jeffx @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:21AM
Paul, I know opinions are like assholes, but you better get your flame shield ready, [flame]!
Ptaaty @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:24AM
japanese console RPGs blow. big time.
I have never had such a chore to finish a game as FF7 on PSX.
wander around, random "fights" where you wait for a turn....if I wanted a story, I'd get a book (if fact I do).
Japanese just have completely different tastes.
BatzRadio @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:28AM
Well seeing as how Western videogame design was mostly a joke (and I only note consoles - not computer games), until about the PS1... is it any surprise?
You still don't see a lot of stuff yet that's on the edge of innovation coming from the US and Europe either.
Are Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil or Alien Hominid even out in Japan yet? There's another thing.
mike @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:32AM
At least FF8 wasn't the best. I can't stand when people think that 8 was the best. 6,7,9,X were all better than 8.
Hairy Jew @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:33AM
FFX I just don't understand. I like RPGs - I like them a lot. But FFX was so damned linear and predictable. Where were all of the open-ended environments? Where was the option to spend hours or days wandering around and powering up your characters? Where was the option of wandering into a zone that I was way too weak to be in and inadvertently getting my ass kicked? No, it was more if a "follow the path the game has set out for you and maybe kill some things along the way" type of RPG. I can't say that I hated it, but it was one of a very few games that I put down prior to finishing. It simply seems to be more about bringing the FF franchise to thee PS2 and show off some nifty graphic. And don't get me started on MGS2.
montee @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:33AM
#7, if you didn't want a story, then you should have bought a book instead of comlaining about it now. You're saying that ff7 was a chore to beat and how you dont like stories, and yet....you made a decision to buy and play thru it. I gotta ask you, why did you play the entire game if it was a chore? and if you just wanted to see what happened in the game, then the story compelled you enough to play thru it. the story did its job....
Scythe @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:36AM
FF7's story was better and it was the first of it's kind but FF10 was just where they added voices and awesome Graphics. I don't know any western games that I could compare these games to. Japan is awesome I love the games they make because unlike over here they get really involved in the story and depth of the games. This list is about right if you ask me, I think FF7 should have beat 10.
FooAtari @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:37AM
Anywhere I can see the actual top 10 (100 for that matter)
Or can anyone list the top 10 games in the list here?
Justin @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:37AM
Well like everyone, your standings on 8 being the worst is simple your opinion. I know for a fact many people that love 8. I'n my book it just comes down to which people related to which characters and story the most.
Since were all different we all relate to the characters differently. Some love 7 simply cuz its their first rpg. Some love 8 for its futuristic setting, some love 9 because it goes back to more magical and fantasy settings. Again the point is that its all just based on peoples opinion.
FooAtari @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:38AM
If its linked to on the Read link ignore that, bit of a stupid moment but I cant see it from work...
Gonzo @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:41AM
No it isn't a very all inclusive list but you have to expect that their games are more appealing to their cultural sensibilities. One thing that I did notice in comparison to the western lists of the same type, the Japanese are really into sequels, RPGs, and drama (which some would consider a subsection of RPG).
I wonder if they import our soaps. They'd love them, especially the starkly p-t teen ones like the oc.
Mule Farmer @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:45AM
"I can't stand when people think that 8 was the best. 6,7,9,X were all better than 8."
Guess you wont like me, I thought it was the second best, I kinda think 9 is the best for me anyway.
Jago @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:48AM
...and of course some of you guys can't accept that *GASP!* aother person/country has a different opinion on what games THEY think are the best.
*cough*Paul*cough*Nate*cough*Ptaaty*cough
@ Ptatty:
If you don't want a story in the games you play then why are you even playing games? That comment makes no sense.
The Doop @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:49AM
For FooAtari (#7)
http://www.craigandlori.com/japantop100.rtf
Dan Choi @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:54AM
Well, here's a little inline/online help to get you started, FooAtari:
1. Final Fantasy X (2001)
2. Final Fantasy VII (1997)
3. Dragon Quest III (1988)
4. Dragon Quest VIII (2004)
5. Machi (1998)
6. Final Fantasy IV (1991)
7. Tactics Ogre (1995)
8. Final Fantasy III (1990)
9. Dragon Quest VII (2000)
10. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
Enjoy. =)
Momus @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:56AM
Two reasons why this is a joke:
Final Fantasy X is at the top.
Vagrant Story isn't even on it.
RumbleBottom @ Mar 3rd 2006 11:56AM
Here's the deal:
- Japanese gamers want a more cinematic, story-like game (fantasy and strategy)
- American gamers want instant gratification (football, fighting, & first-person)
Personally, I know of know American game that is in my top 10 list. Can't stand Madden, basketball, boxing, etc.
I would guess that most readers of joystiq are more refined gamers who look a little deeper than EA for their gaming fulfillment as well.
Karmakin @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:00PM
The defense of X:Please note, there are massive **SPOILERS** included. I personally think that FFX is the best JRPG, but just my opinion.
First of all, the basic gameplay. Combat IS important in an RPG. If you enjoy it, it's fun. FFX's is especially fun for two reasons.
#1. The actual battle system is both accessible and skillful. Different attacks have different delays. You can see the order of attack, so you can make an informed decision. There's pros and cons to almost every move. Having all the characters with a useful roll, and being able to switch them in and out at will is great.
#2. The level up system is really fun. You get a level up every battle or two, so you're always making progress in that regard. As well, at higher levels of play, which is needed for the uber-hard sidequest challenges, there's vastly more min-maxing than any other Final Fantasy game. (And probably more than any other JRPG at that)
STORY:The other aspect of a JRPG. To me, the story is second to none. A lot of criticism of how linear it is, but in the terms of the story that makes sense. It's about a pilgramage, for most of the story, down a set path that's been done for hundreds of years. The other thing is the characters..
Tidus:Here's where most of the criticism is. I think most people miss the whole point of it. Yes. Tidus is impudent and whiny. A little kid. But notice something. There's the voice where Tidus is telling the story. It's a different voice. It's a mature voice. Where he's made the decision to give up his own existance to free Spira from Sin.
Yuna and Auron:The bulk of the story really. It's simple. Auron's whole plan is to bring Tidus and Yuna together, to make them fall in love to the point where Yuna refuses to sacrifice Tidus. Because Auron sees the grander conspiracy, and wants to bring it down.
Wakka:A religious fanatic who is forced to fight against his religion by his own eyes.
Lulu:The mother figure who's dealing with her own destroyed heart
Kihmari and Rikku are not as interesting in my mind. Although the whole idea of the racism against the Al Bhed IS.
And in the end, that Sin is truly controlled by the originator of the Yevon religion. That the religion, and Sin by extension is designed to keep people subsuviant, and to keep the control in the hands of the Maesters.
And in the end, it's simply a boy trying to escape the shadow of his uber-famous...and negligent..father.
wonderflex @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:02PM
#13 - I agree with your sentiments exactly, and I have a feeling that this is exactly why the list contains so many RPG's in the first place. All the games come from multiple threads, and stories, containing a plethora of characters to grow with and love. There is bound to be an RPG with a story, or character set, that you simply love, which has helped to put these games up on the top of the charts.
American gaming on the other hand, in general, but not always, focuses less on the story, and more on the action side of things. Games like GTA have storylines, but they don't engage you like Chronotrigger, or Xenogears.
It's just a different mindset here in the states. We seem to care more about things looking pretty, running fast, and utiliizing our reflexes, while in Japan they care more about product depth rather than look. This is why shows like Dragonball, and Full Metal Alchemist, are able to sell here in the US; while you'll never begin to see the likes of programing like Kokoro Library ever make it's way.
MegaWatts @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:13PM
The list is lame by Western world standards and its not surprising as the people of Japan love tentacle sex and vending machines dispensing dirty womens/girls panties. Very disturbing. But hey who am I to complain we have Michael Jackson, Paris Hilton and Tom Cruise. We must appear nuts as a society also.
carry on...
in5ane @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:16PM
At first I thought that was the Top 100 Japanese sequels list :)
Hey Japan, make some good new games!
Mark Felps @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:18PM
Except there isn't much depth in your average RPG. It's the same set of stories, over and over, ad nauseam. I like RPG's, and I've played quite a few on that list, but I've reached the point where all the stories blend together, because the vast majority of them are just rehashes of other games. There's plenty of innovation in Japan, but their RPG's aren't it. Look more to Shadow of Collossus or Katamari, where the developers are genuinely trying new things. What the list suggests to me is that Japanese gamers prize safe, predictable storylines, with lots of cinematics. In short, they want controllable movies instead of video games. In most RPG's, you could just set the fights to auto-battle and eventually you'd make it through, at which point you aren't even playing a game anymore. You're just watching TV.
Ptaaty @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:21PM
I should have said if I ONLY wanted a story.
I bought FF7 because of the massive hype, I played through it to give it a chance with an open mind.
It is a way to waste a large amount of time, but I have a life and want to actually *play* a game. Stories are great, but not just a story. I am sure some JRPGs need strategy or some sort of skill but I remember having never played a straight up turn based rpg before...the waltzing through FF7 without even a tiny challenge...other than, WTF do I do/go now. Time for random wander, "fight" same stupid enemies level up, repeat.
Now Morrowind, that was a fun RPG.
32_Footsteps @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:22PM
For all other complaining about this list I could do (and boy is there plenty), I'll just point out one reason I think it's garbage.
Neitehr Katamari Damacy nor We Love Katamari is on the list.
ephraim @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:27PM
heres an american list:
1.Halo 2
2.madden 06
3.halo 1
4.madden 05
5.madden 04
6.madden 03
7.madden 02
8.GTA san andreas
9.god of war
10.resident evil 4
chock full of mediocre football games, violence and sex, god bless america
dsub @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:31PM
I know it's already been stated...but this list doesn't surprise me. 7 of the top 10 games are square RPG's. That says is all. Must be from Japan. Half of the overall list is made up of RPG's. That's just how they do things over there.
Now, I agree...Japanese games are very rich in the story department, but I am just not a fan of RPG's. Games like Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/WoW have always been the bane of my existence. I can't stand playing them. With the exception of one title. FFVII. Great game.
However, other Japanese games, like the RE series have such a rich storyline that they can keep pumping out title after title, because the storyline is always so new and well thought out, it doesn't get stale as it progresses. This is something that very few american games do well. The GTA series is a great example of a western game that pulls this off very well, some FPS games, like Half-Life and Halo have great storylines that are well thought out, but I think because of the fact that they are FPS games, alot of that story is lost. Mostly because of the vantage point you play from. You view the game as YOU shooting everyone, not Master Chief/Gordon.
A third person game like GTA or RE takes that story and incorporates it into how you play the game and beat it. In RE you have to pay attention to the story for clues and stuff to make it through, in GTA you have to listen to the story to know how to complete your missions and tasks. In a game like Halo/Half-Life you can just skip over the story...blow the aliens to shit, and still beat the game in most cases. It is this lack of interaction with the story in a game that I think japanese people don't like, and is also viewed as a weakness in many american games.
Todd @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:36PM
The good old USA has the most gun violence in the world, where Japan has the least. Why? Who knows, but it shows in our games where it doesn't in theirs. We're just worlds apart (literally and figuratively) and our ideas of what is fun are no exception. Sure, we sometimes have something that crosses both borders, but it's the more of an exception than the norm. They want their violence stylized and animated where we want ours real and gritty. They want karaoke & we want cable TV.
It's just a crazy mixed up world. Get used to it.
knight37 @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:38PM
WTF?? NO PONG?!!!!
Hehe. Anyway, FINALLY, Final Fantasy X is getting the critical acclaim it deserves. It's the best in the FF series, IMHO, and it's all because that's when they added voice and really made you feel like you were playing an interactive movie. Plus the combat system was awesome. While parts of it got bogged down and we had to spend some time leveling up our characters (wife and I played through as a team), it was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. 70 hours, at least 40 of which were awesome. I really think that most of the detractors didn't make it through to the end, which is admittedly not a simple chore.
Nate @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:39PM
. ...and of course some of you guys can't accept that *GASP!* aother person/country has a different opinion on what games THEY think are the best.
*cough*Paul*cough*Nate*cough*Ptaaty*cough
That's why I said "it's all opinion anyway" at the end of my thoughts/rant...
ZildjianKX @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:42PM
I can't knock their list too much, there really aren't that many good American/European games.
All my favorite games are Japanese.
Not a GTA fan, think Halo is overrated.
Japense rule the consoles, other countries rule the PC.
HiroProtagonistak @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:49PM
Living in Japan I did notice very odd thing compared to our superior western culture. An ass load of people on small trains, people buying new cell phones every 11 minutes the most popular game in the Arcade was a Bus driving simulator and all of there RPG are very odd and confusing to play.
The giant round eyed school girls are nice to look at, and the fact that all the Real girls want to look like that is nice, really nice actually, but still all there games are filled with love and emotions and crap like that.
Just give me a goodol western game thats all about Killing, Destroying, Sex, Violence and Talking Shit about your moma on XBL. I do love this country.
Ninjas are Still very cool
B @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:50PM
Good,I'm happy that Chronno Trigger and FFVII are in there,also Sonic(which he is celebrating the big 15 this year.)
FFX...I like the game,story etc...but I don't think it deserves 1st,I was expecting FFVII.
But japan forgot this(I'm gonna say this a million times,in a fanboy way):
WHERE'S KING OF FIGHTERS?!
Rob X @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:50PM
Man, Ico and Rez don't get any love even in their own country.
Rob X @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:54PM
Interesting to note the difference with IGN reader's top 10 video games (http://microsites.ign.com/kfc/top99games/10.html):
#10: The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
#9: Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
#8: Soul Calibur
#7: Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
#6: God of War
#5: Half-Life 2
#4: Chrono Trigger
#3: Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
#2: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
#1: Resident Evil 4
mandarin @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:55PM
Well a lot of western games dont really have a story at least Japanese games have a bit of a twist... There are Japanese games with sex in them, in the west, the sex scenes are hidden...
zenprism @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:57PM
I'm just glad the first Grandia made the list.
ICO should be on there though. Wounderful game, that.
Pal @ Mar 3rd 2006 12:58PM
This list, for me, is 200% better than any other list I've read in the past :)
BLUE SKIES IN GAMES!
Ben Hobbs @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:05PM
Well this just goes to show how xenophobic the Japanese are, theres been plenty of very good, groundbreaking games that haven't been from Japan.
Populous, Command and Conquer, Ultima, Half Life, Quake, GTA, Madden, Diablo, Starcraft, Pirates, Civilisation, Warcraft, Everquest, Pac-man, Gorf.
In fact apart from Zelda, Mario and Perhaps Final Fantasy and Herzog Zwei I cant think of anything groundbreaking coming from Japan.
SuicideNinja @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:12PM
"At least FF8 wasn't the best. I can't stand when people think that 8 was the best. 6,7,9,X were all better than 8."
Before Final Fantasy 7, the Phantasy Stars were much more interesting than the FF series in my opinion. PS4 was well balanced and fun, and provided a better gaming experience.
Final Fantasy 7 had a good story, but the schizophrenic graphics couldn't make up their mind. Switching between annoyingly blocky and then decent looking to FMV all the time was just distracting. The main reason it was so popular is it was successful in using FMVs to advance the story, thus changing the RPG experience.
FF9 was horrible. The story, characters, and setting was just ridiculous. As soon as I could see that the main characters included a Knight, a princess, and a little He-man sidekick copy, I knew I wasn't going to like it. It was probably the most annoying and predictable Final Fantasy I've ever put myself through, and the first that I didn't replay to get everything.
The only problem with 8 is how they handled leveling up your characters' abilities, leaving it easy to rely on Guardian forces (until you can't use them and you're screwed). If the game is played without using the GFs every battle then it is actually a great game and in my opinion surpasses its predecessor and sequel in quality, story, and fun. The story wasn't clutching at straws, the FMVs were great, and the characters had very different personalities.
FFX was a great RPG, but my support for it waned after playing the sequel. I wanted FF and I got Charlie's Angels. At least the sequel had enjoyable parts.
As far as stories go, I'd have to say the Xenogears is the best I've experienced.
Anyway, as far as American games...we are too impatient for many of these long and involved RPGs. We need the immediate satisfaction with limited effort. Is it surprsing that Western games don't make much of a showing on the list?
Muu @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:14PM
Not a surprising list at all, if this was voted by players. The lack of more US-oriented FPS and the like can be attributed to the way the Japanese PC games market matured. BTW, if this wasn't a "user vote" but an editor selection, Mysterious Dungeons 2 (I'd assume they're talking about Shiren for the SFC) would make it to at LEAST the top-10, as it was one of those titles that was engrossing enough to play over and over (basically Nethack with some features trimmed), but didn't sell because it didn't have the "Dragon Quest" spinoff label like the first title did.
Machi in #5 would most likely be a group vote from the large JP forum clusters. It's one of those 'visual novels,' basically one of them choose-your-own-adventure books on steroids (though I think this one and others from Chunsoft were horror/fantasy-esque novels, nothing that's for 18+ like the PC game novels). This one I believe did get good reviews when it came out, but these types of games never make it to the states because the Japanese companies don't feel it worth spending cash for half-ass decent translators. For the same reason I wonder how all those console RPGs sell so well in the US when it seems like everything was just processed through babelfish.
And because these 'novel' type games became the mainstream of Japanese PC gaming, normal US PC games have had harder times selling as well. I mean, when you claim to be a 'pc gamer' in Japan, people are most likely not going to think you play an occasional round of Quake (not that that's any better since there's plenty of anti-sentimism about Airsofters and the like). The unfortunate thing is that I've seen plenty of US magazines and commenters mock these titles as garbage, as they've only heaped through the trash that gets filtered to the US market. There are true gems out there in this genre, but these are often the ones with much more complicated dialogue and storylines than your standard-fare console RPGs; doesn't take much to port Quake to suit the Japanese audience, but the extra task of translating the equivalent of several thousand pages of text in satisfactory fashion for a title that would sell far less seems silly.
pete @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:22PM
Todd, The US has a fair amount of gun violence, not the most, but it does exist. In Japan guns are illegal, so you see alot more people getting their houses blown up or getting run through with swords, so which is more violent?
The list is interesting though, almost none of the games on it were available in arcades. I think the prevalance of arcades in Japan may have influenced the tilt towards RPGs somewhat
32_Footsteps @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:42PM
Umm... Ben Hobbs... you know that Pac-Man was made by Toru Iwatani, who is and always has been Japanese, right?
Though with some games that always get mentioned, it's worth noting that "influential" doesn't automatically mean "best." Though some (Tetris springs immediately to mind) would qualify as both.
Eric @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:44PM
I sense WAY too much loyalty to the FF series in Japan. A lot of sentiment in the states are that the final fantasy series are great but not necessarily the do all end all of RPG's...apparently the Japs disagree.
FFVII is the biggest thing to happen in RPG's since sliced bread, anyone who disagrees is a fanboy to something that doesn't compare. However, there has been much complaint on this side of the pacific, that the FF series has taken a dive as of late...again apparently the Japs disagree.
#1 reason I don't like Japanese titles...the male characters all have a sexual identity crisis--they look like 12 yr old girls. Which makes me wonder that maybe the japanese males have some sort of homoerotic tendancies. (asian porn is gross/fetishy too)
Here in the states we like our male characters to be badass...something that we can't be earily attracted to in some way.
25 cent movies and shows for your ipod @ Mar 3rd 2006 1:45PM
"The list is lame by Western world standards by MegaWatts"
Yep, you are right. I would assume that any top 100 list without Halo 2 would be outright lame by U.S standards. But hey, this just illustrates major game cultural differences.
Bloo @ Mar 3rd 2006 2:13PM
The fact that there are so many RPGs in here without Panzer Dragoon Saga or some of the other Saturn greats astounds me.