UK game industry types talk Revolution
by Christopher Grant 
{ Mar 7th 2006 at 3:00AM }
GamesIndustry.biz has a feature that
follows in the grand tradition of asking game developers to wax thoughtful on Nintendo's revolutionary Revolution
system and, most interestingly, how it will differentiate itself from the Gamecube's lackluster retail presence. Relentless Software's Andrew Eades said, "Gamers in the know will buy a Revolution as a 2nd machine to play another Miyamoto classic, but the mainstream consumer needs something less abstract to latch onto. The Revolution must be both niche and mainstream." Our entirely informal poll indicated a plurality of gamers were not only interested in getting the Revolution as a second choice in a next-gen combo platter, but were also interested in getting the console as their primary gaming system.
Frontier Developments' David Braben says, "There is also a potential downside - assuming it is a huge success, it could be a pyrrhic victory; I am not convinced that others - third or first parties - can't offer similar styles of controller for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, eroding the Revolution's advantage." Think SplitFish whose DualFX controller, though it may not be a copy of the Revolution controller, offers a similar interface. There's already rumors that Sony and Microsoft are working on similar functionality for their respective systems; is Nintendo's final trump card going to be enough to keep competition at bay?
[Thanks, The1]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
TME @ Mar 7th 2006 3:32AM
Regardless of whether Sony or Microsoft can make a rev like controller (and they can), they will not put full force behind it. The difference between the rev controller and a peripheral is that the rev controller is standard, everyone will have it, and nearly all games will utilise it. People don't like buying extra stuff for 1 or 2 games, and neither Sony or Microsoft pushe alternative peripherals very hard.
Gavin @ Mar 7th 2006 4:22AM
If people want to wave stuff at their TV they can already buy a Xavix. Just because it will feature Mario and Link in the games won't make it any more successful. Gamers want to lay back on the couch and play with a controller. That is the plain hard truth.
Probot @ Mar 7th 2006 4:39AM
"Gamers want to lay back on the couch and play with a controller. That is the plain hard truth."
Exactly, and those gamers can still do that with all three consoles. The Rev is just hoping to capitlize on the much larger group of people that don't want to do just that.
fawazr @ Mar 7th 2006 4:53AM
Sweet hermitic ghost of Salinger (not dead), I'm sick of overopinionated neophites telling me what I want from a console! I'll wave a G-damned bananna in front of my tv if I want, and the eager little analyst inside of some faceless netizen won't have any sway on that proud decision.
As far as the Rev goes. It won't outsell the PS2. Sure it's not next gen, but Sony can take the next 8 years finishing the PS3 and still make money of the massive install base of the PS2. On top of that, history has proven that Nintendo has never cornered the market on any of their innovations. If so, 9 out of every ten games from the last 20 years would be paying Miyamoto royalties. For me, the beautiful thing about the Rev isn't how many rival fanboys it'll send crying, or how unique Nintendo's next control scheme will be, but how many true believers it will make happy. I'm in the late 20-something crowd, seeing my youth slip away into the accumulated void of years of product loyalty, consumer trends, bad pop songs, cross-color jeans, and JD Roth (Cherry Hill, W00t!!) gameshows. I want the Rev to be the capstone of my gaming youth. Sure, I'll pick up a controller every now and then, and fumble feebly to comprehend why I have to beat up virtual prostitutes, but between an upcoming wedding, my receding hair line, a masters that can't arrive fast enough, and about 30 (or 3) books that I haven't written yet, games will be an afterthought. So, you see, the Rev is my last hoorah. It began with a black cardboatrd box being placed into a 6 year old's hands and it ends with Nintendo's promise that I'll say, "Wow!"
So effe all the imitators and haters and junior analysts, I wan't my phiggin' Rev already. That's the only hard truth that matters to me.
epobirs @ Mar 7th 2006 5:16AM
Eades has a very good point. Especially since it is one I've made before. Being a secondary system does not make you a failure if it part of your strategy. Once you are prepared to be less dependent on third party revenues you can place your focus on those things you do best. For Nintendo it would not matter if the Revolution sold only a fifth as much software as the PS3. If the stuff sold is nearly all first party it can be hugely lucrative.
With this in mind, positioning the Revolution so it isn't perceived as a competitor to the PS3 or Xbox 360 can be a smart move. Marketing should encourage consumers to view it as a new category, at least for its native mode. The GameCube and Virtual Library support is a separate marketing effort. Vast numbers of console owners also have a portable game system. A gamer who favors the PS2 may still choose the DS over the PSP. If you offer something that appears to be both attractive and one of a kind the entire issue of the Sony and MS installed bases can become moot except in terms of a consumer's total gaming budget.
If you can't win the old game, define a new game that favors your strengths.
Certainly one or both of the other console makers will try a similar input option. Whether they pursue it heavily is entirely dependent on consumer response. If EyeToy games were more than mildly profitable there would be a lot more of them, just as there would be for light gun, dance pad, and fishing controller supporting games. The trick is coming up with something more than a me too entry in those genres.
Bender @ Mar 7th 2006 5:26AM
The N64 hardware was created so that Miyamoto could do what he wanted to do with Mario 64. The revolution could well be the same thing - hardware created to solve a software problem.
If this is the case, it won't make a shred of difference if Sony or MS make a copy-cat controller because the thing that will sell the new console is not the controller - it's the software the controller was created for.
ill trooper @ Mar 7th 2006 5:28AM
The truth is, yes, other companies can create a similiar technology to the the Revolution's controller. But like the iPod, the real magic is in the software - there are plenty of hard-drive based music players, but few if any have the ease of use and integration of the iPod plus iTunes.
Nintendo always gets a little crafty with the software, and we can look at the last year of the DS as a roadmap: funky weird hardware captures the imagination of creative developers and strange fun games follow. Of course this also happens for the PS2 (katamari, shadow of the colossus, guitar hero), but really because of the sheer numbers of people that own it - the marketshare can support odd or unusual games. The strange little Nintendo box appeals to people that will be on the lookout for games like Nintendogs and Katamari; the PS3 might have enough numbers that the interesting games get made for it too, like with the PS2... The only box currently left out of this seems to be the Xbox, but the Live Marketplace has changed that mentality and the 360 is getting 'weird' now too. (And thank god for that - While foaming at the mouth for Splinter Cell 4, I also await the ping-pong game for the 360.)
The difference between a Revolution and an Xbox or a PS3 with a Revolution-like controller is that EVERY Revolution that ships will have that controller, while only a certain amount of people will buy the clone for the other systems, so developers will be creating Revolution titles with the controller in mind, rather than "maybe" supporting it, like a third-party steering wheel.
I think this box is going to be in nearly everyone's house after a while, the ideal 2nd or 3rd system. It's almost the 'un-box' - the same way nobody seemed to want a DS but everyone wound up with one - the DS is what you do while you wait for something fun to ship for your PSP... It's too interesting to ignore... I'm right there with you Fawazr.
Kye @ Mar 7th 2006 5:48AM
I keep wondering why there's all this (trash)talk of the Revolution not being next gen. And being a second console.
From what I've seen from 360 games I've played, it's not exactly next gen either. No, I havent bought one, and maybe I havent played one enough, but the fact remains - I am not impressed.
Also After what went down with the PS2 I for one definitely won't be counting on the PS3 to deliver anything that's promised. My opinion - It will be equal to or marginally better than the 360. That's it.
There was a huge jump between the NES era and the SNES era. Also, very noticeable differences between the N64 era and the the Dreamcast era. These were real next-gen consoles. Actually there was something new and fresh between all console generations. Something that opened up flood gates of possibilities. A new way of controlling the character and so on. There isn't anything wonderful or new about the 360 and the PS3 for me. Oh la de dah, we have the exact same controller but we've tweaked the graphics, and if you squint then you just might notice it.
You know your company has gone lazy (and is about to die!) when it can't even be bothered to redesign the control pad much.
Imagine the SNES being shipped with the NES pad only this time it had rounded off corners. You know you would've been the first to burn down the Nintendo Building. Or imagine trying to play the N64 games with the SNES control pad. Again, Miyamoto would have been skinned alive and beaten with cacti.
So, my point. Yes we are reaching the limits of what we can do graphically. trying to push the pencil another few inches isn't going to cut it for me.
I want my shoulder pads on my SNES. I want my analogue stick on my N64. And I want my rev-mote.
The Revolution will be my Primary console. I may get a 360 a couple of years down the line as my secondary console. So all this talk of the Revo only being a secondary console can kiss my a*s as well.
This may only be one man's opinion. But remember, it's also MY money. And I only spend MY money where I see fit. Not where I'm advised to by some faceless analyst or reviewer whose probably getting freebies from a major company.
If any company wants my cash, they have to earn it with hard work. And so far Nintendo are the only people I see putting in the effort.
End.
Sockatume @ Mar 7th 2006 6:23AM
Braben's been getting a lot of press time lately considering he's been publishing Rollercoaster Tychoon and developing Wallace and Grommit games for about a decade.
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 6:36AM
Interesting that Microsoft and Sony's plans for similar systems are about as far from the Revolutions control system as getting a nun to pray to your system to control it. Sony? Detects motion on a 2D plane. Microsoft? webcams and image processing will lead to a jittery image.
Also interesting is that people think the Rev is all about the controller. Was it Iwata or Shigsy who said that we don't know the most revolutionary feature about this machine yet? hmm. Looks like they're trying so hard to beat this controller they're forgetting that it doesn't end there.
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 6:38AM
Kye, that was beautiful.
Kye @ Mar 7th 2006 7:02AM
Thank you Jay
I got up on the wrong side of the bed and decided to take it out on the Nintendo bashers.
Im feeling better now so the rants over :)
Wouldn't you agree that that deserved a star? lol
*he does his shameless star dance in hopes that those handsome f*ckers @ Joystiq will give him a star.
Your friendly neighborhood Kye
read my blogs :)
Andrew @ Mar 7th 2006 7:03AM
Personnelly I think the new chic in the Video games industry (or, at least in North America and Europe)is to secretly hate Nintendo. To defend my claim I refer to number 3's quote, where most people are too Lazy to look beyond the Graphics. many of them will always go back to playing their Madden and lamenting about how cool the Killzone 2 trailer was.
Jirr @ Mar 7th 2006 7:22AM
Kye !
You take away a tear from me !!!
And yes, Nintendo is the only one with a great idea in this next-gen cicle.
RandomBoy @ Mar 7th 2006 7:27AM
Some people have too much opinion but not enough brain power to handle it.
striderhayasa @ Mar 7th 2006 7:46AM
Whoa, I was all ready to put my two cents in for the topic and you guys covered it. All of it. Jay, Kye, ill Trooper, Fawazr, I'm with you. I've been ridiculed for years by my PS and now Xbox loving friends for supporting Nintendo. I put up with it because Nintendo is the company that made me want to sit in front of the TV for hours on end. From the 8bit era to the present Nintendo has always been the company I could count on to give me something I didn't expect and have it still be addictive. (Like Mario Kart online, sort of what you expected but still, digital crack for the portable world)
But just as Fawazr said, I too am getting up there in age/responsibilities and such. I have told many of my friends that this era is my last and it will be spent with the Revolution. I spend more time with my DS than anything else and have no desire to get a 360. I'm not supporting a PS3. I want to end my gaming run with Nintendo. The company that took a fat plumber, a keebler elf and a woman in orange and gold 80's "glam rock" armor and made us all believe in the power of gaming.
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 7:55AM
striderhayasa; Why does it have to be your last machine? out of curiosity like. I'm 20, I'm at university. this time next year I'll almost have finished there and I'll be looking into kick starting my career as a radio producer. Year later my girlfriend will be finishing university and starting up her career. We've planned on getting married when we're about 23 or 24. There's no way in hell we're giving up on gaming. Maybe we'd drop aside from the pointless games (Xbox, PS2) and just focus on what we grew up on, what we're really interested in. But I'll still be there, kicking arse on Smash Bros Melee Revolution :)
look at your parents or anyone in a full time job and with a family, they have time for DVD's, hobbies, TV etc.
We're actually planning on buying a Revolution and keeping it sealed, maybe 2. Just so we can say we own the original machine that (potentially?) changed gaming forever. And one for the grandkids years into the future :)
Vince -UK @ Mar 7th 2006 8:07AM
I'm as tired of hearing the word "innovative" from Nintendo optimists as I am hearing the phrase "one trick pony" from Nintendo pessimists.
But one thing is for sure, the Nintendo camp have the largest proportion of gaming prigs, all living in a dream-like world of nostalgia.
All in all I think the Revo manages to avoid criticism far better than the PS3 or 360, people are afraid to open their mouths for fear of committing blasphemy.
The fans have done a very good job of hyping up the Revo, they should be proud of themselves.
Kye @ Mar 7th 2006 8:08AM
Thank you Jirr
There's a certain air about Nintendo Lovers that eludes PS fanboys.
Thanx again jay.
Together the ants will overcome the elephant.
*He starts a chant... feel free to join in guys...*
Star for everyone whose blogged so far!!
STAR STAR STAR STAR STAR...
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 8:27AM
I'm tired of hearing innovate too, almost as much as I'm tired of hearing about Sony and MS pushing numbers to fans and have them eat them up and smile for more.
I think I've broke through the barrier now where I've praised that Revolution controller and ideology enough now. But on the games front there is no other system that I can play Metroid, Mario and Zelda on. And Pokemon at a pinch.
Plus at the Rev's size I can easily carry it to my parents villa in Spain and cabin in Poland. Never underestimate the portability factor.
So no, it's not about innovation. it's about realistic thinking.
512MB @ Mar 7th 2006 8:44AM
"Together the ants will overcome the elephant."
That reminds me of one of osama's tapes.
winston @ Mar 7th 2006 8:46AM
Nintendo DS proves that there is a huge dormant market of gamers/people seeking to be entertained while educating themselves, so if Revolution can act in a similar way, it will at least make huge waves in Japan.
On another note, since this "Star"-system was introduced on Joystiq, comments are getting so pretentious it makes me sick. Its freakin' worse than Slashdot. Who are you trying to impress? Let your '"#&"5 hair down peeps. :#
Gamer_Domeni @ Mar 7th 2006 8:46AM
Kye, you took my entire post! Someone give this man a star! He brought tears to so many eyes. The revolution will be my first console, in fact, I've been trying to preorder it since last year (although nowhere here will let me yet). I have held onto my reservation for Twilight Princess since August (yes I know people have had one longer). I own the NES, SNES, N64 and the infamous Gamecube. I own all the gameboys. I also have a Gamer Gear =P. But thats besides the point.
There needs to be a noticeable difference for a console to be "next-gen". None of the offerings from the 360 that I have seen have shown that. In fact, I''ve found that using the digital A/V cable for my 'Cube produces better graphics than the 360 on the huge displays in my local stores. Anyone who has an informed argument against that speak now...
As for the future, if not for innovation, we will see another game crash... i've seen enough of those in my lifetime. But now I will have my DS and Revo to keep me company!
Sense @ Mar 7th 2006 8:51AM
I'm not worried about Nintendo. They always turn a profit. What's more, they supposedly have even more in store for the Revolution. They've pointed out more than once that the controller isn't the last surprise. I don't see how anything could be bigger news than that, but I'll wait and see.
Whatever happens, I can't live without my new Smash Bros. So I'll be buying one. As far as Nintendo bashers, I have done my fair share. I thought--and still do--that the big N was crazy for nor supporting online this generation. I also thought the company had collectively lost its mind when they unveiled the DS. Little did I know I'd be trading in my PSP for some online wifi Mario Kart in a year's time.
Don't get me wrong. I love 360 and LIVE but I'm just as excited by the Revolution. Anyone who has been playing games for a long time welcomes the possibility that the Revolution will offer new game experiences.
With any luck, it might even be enough to draw in people who otherwise scoff at games.
akira @ Mar 7th 2006 8:52AM
Nintendo has something the other companies can never have. Truly FUN and easy games that we all grew up with. Nothings better than the feeling created by playing a game that reminds you of being a kid and free of all the adult responsibilities. And if you think about it, wouldn't it be great to have your kids (or your niece, nephew, etc..) like the same games you like. Imagine playing with kids and actually having fun without teaching them killing techniques. Man the revolution will truly be revolutionary in the fact that it will be a system that you will be able to play with anyone form your kid to your grandma. I think it's gonna be one of those systems that you're gonna play and everytime you stop, you'll still be smiling (unlike these modern games that are so hard and fierce that they give you more stress than fun)
Madwicked @ Mar 7th 2006 9:07AM
I have to vehemently oppose the statement that in your late 20's that gaming is close to over for you.
I am 33 right now. I have a 7 year old boy and a 4 year old girl, a full time job and a beautiful wife. I have time for gaming alone, and with my friends. I especially have time for gaming with my children. It's a great family activity, that stimulates your mind and also stimulates discussion... moreso than current television programming... (i.e. anything on MTV, MTV2, E, BET, etc...etc...etc...).
Being a memeber of the first generation of gamers affords me the opportunity to teach the history of gaming to (the future primary form of entertainment, btw) my children. It aslo allows me to have a whole bunch of fun while at the same time spending quality time with my children... so, masters degree, job and life do not have to exclude gaming.
-MW
ea @ Mar 7th 2006 9:31AM
Nintendo will be my second console cause I already have a 360. You guys are right though, the 360 launch was lackluster but I know it will pick up. I'm really looking forward to the revolution. I really want to play F-Zero and Mario Kart on the rev because of the controller mechanics (tilt the controller to turn). So much fun.
Todd @ Mar 7th 2006 9:50AM
I agree Madwicked, I'm 32 and my wife 25 and we both grew up on games. I started when I had to have a step to be able to play a B&W version of Breakout in a local toy store. I'll never stop as long as great game are still being made.
Oh and I'm tired of hearing all this "next-gen" crap. "Next-gen" so far just means that they've caught back up to what a high end gaming PC can do. Big deal. They still have to make excusses why it doesn't look as good as they have said it would by saying that it's not using all of the available resources. Really??!! Guess what most games never do otherwise every game for the Gamecube would look like RE4.
I like what Reggie said about the Revolution, it's not "next-gen", it's "new-gen". That exactly what I want. Something brand new. Not the next upgrade for the same thing.
darryl @ Mar 7th 2006 9:51AM
"There's a certain air about Nintendo Lovers that eludes PS fanboys."
Ewwww, I don't want to know what that is, but I bet you it smells foul. Go, Nintento Lovers, Go!
ry @ Mar 7th 2006 9:51AM
if sony/MS make a rev style controller, it'll be akin to a steering wheel; a secondary perihperal thata couple of games will take advantage of. The Rev will use it as its primary controller, and that's a big difference.
Is it just me, or is the Rev the sexiest looking console, aesthetically, that has come out in the past 20 years???
And anyways, Nintendo isn't looking to make the Rev the "Secondary" console, it wants to make it the primary console for a few million people who don't regard themselves as gamers and as such, haven't dropped 500$ on a PS3/360.
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 10:05AM
Ry; yup. I agree. The PS2 was a machine that tried to look modern, at the time it did but looking back now; its fugly. The cube? portable but ugly. Xbox? just hideous. The Rev's use of minimalism can only pay off. Any form of minimalism will always look modern, only the colours will affect is visual age. in essence a chrome/silver Rev will look good today and in a hundred years.
DS Lite shows the same potential, however it's edges might date. but in general; minimalism doesn't age.
One of my uncles used to play around with his GB the same time I did, he was 45 at the time. age+games= no worries.
Jay @ Mar 7th 2006 10:10AM
I keep forgetting to mention. Out of all my close mates, 3 of which haven't bought a current gen machine and 1 who has a 360, and 2 who had either a GC/Xbox - all have said they are getting a Rev ASAP. It will not be my second console either. Frankly I'm putting these old machines in the 2nd console roster. Ever since TS2 I realised that dual analogues were no way to play FPS games, or pretty much any game. Since the Rev video and the possibilities of flight joysticks, boxing gloves, light sabres and sword fighting, RTS and RPG. I'm just not looking at old machines anymore :)
I might pick up a 360 as a second machine, just for Halo. But even then I'll be hiding that under my desk.
Doom3 @ Mar 7th 2006 10:14AM
I have a gyro mouse. It's great. It's made by the same people that nintendo got to make their gyro but my mouse does not sense distance or true rotation. I wonder why? That was nintendo's idea to include those features. Just like all of the other nintendo redesigns this is evolutionary to game play. If sony or Ms impliment a controller like this I'll expect about as much as another extra set of shoulder button ah al dual shock2's l2, r2. These guys don't design innovative and fun games they buy or sign other companies to do it. So what do those people do, what any taylor would do. If you want extra buttons then you get extra buttons. You see at the heart of sony and Ms are not gamers. So they are reactionary types instead of game makers. They make prettier checker boards with cup holders and try to say hey this is for adults...LOL
All of the developers and gamers screaming that the controller is a gimmic the console is undered power tend to forget they are being introduced to a new game system and the mind of gamers making games for poeple who like to play games. Don't let me forget more importantly the people who will be attracted to gaming becuase it's fun.
Nintendo system's have never been truly under powered. The only thing holding them back has been their choice of storage medium. This is corrected in the rev. If you do the reseach every one is claiming that the ps3 is on par with a xbox 360. You ask why this is? Well you have to look at the gpus first. They are from rival companies who are currently in a tug-0-war match. Both chips basicly designed at the same time with the same expected results, using slightly different method to achieve static meshes and a grander shader output. People say the fliper did not have shader tech but read the tech docs alittle closer. Real time Multiple processed layered textures that don't take a frame rate hit when effects are applied are know as a shader even in games like quake 3. The game cube had that hardware in it before any other console. The xbox only expanded on this. Now this tech is standard. Boot up res evil 4 on the gc and take a close look. Thats a first generation normal map there sonny.
Now why would nintendo not put cost effective hardware that would unshakle them selves from the current gen's limitations? They've never hyped their tech because they are like the artist and sony and MS are like your brush makers trying to be an artist.
Why would an artist claim his paint brush is the reason why his creations are so great?
But we all know it's the high tech artist that buys the exotic hardware just to get things done more effectivily. These guys {nintendo} have a strong record of putting the right set of chips together to make the system that can porcess stuff that matters. No satillite imagery here or prerender scenes... I think thats going to be one of the biggest suprises of nintendo's next system... It won't be under powered... It'll be right on par and maybe more if rumors are correct.
What is this definition of under powered that every one keeps throwing around anyway? Is it lack of normal maps{ this generation's next gen feature...that fools every one into believe there realy is 5 million polys therepre character}. Is it lack of gpu power? Come on the artx guys over at ati have always shot for more than every one else when it came to console graphics. Why do you think nintendo's gpu designers where bought by ati? Not enough ram{come on see thats only for those HD games your normal tv only displays 480 any way}. You won't see too many more polygons because of the extra ram. This idea of other systems over powering each other is a myth. Any way. This hasn't happened since the arcade days. The only way that truely happens is if the release is seperated by 3 to 4 years along with other variables.
I've said this once before these system all are going to push the same amount of polys and around the same amount of effects. Anything over 2 to 3 time preformance is a lie. That is a normal map you are trying to count polygons on. Go and check out zbrush. It's a beautiful thing but so far most of the gpus are the same and the cpus are good at what? Hopefully games...
After going to http://pixologic.com/home/home.shtml please note that this method is widely known to graphic artist and soon to be the next buzz word for next gen gamers. Normal are the part of the polygon that are shaded based on it's angle from the light. So this is really the offspring of voxels or 3d textures.
I'll warn you though there is one more thing that nintendo could use thats way better than mip maps if they can pull it off. Displacement ramping based on visiable elements. Every one all ready uses this in zbrush model creation.
I like what nintendo is doing thought. Let you comp think your not going to be high tech then use their own trump card on them. I mean the xbox gpu has been finish for a while. Ati could be working on a true next gen way of setting up 3d graphics. Pixar has a method just like the one I'm talking about in their rendering package Prman.
Don't be surprised when metroid 3 looks like the stuff in the zbrush forums for real.
Epic demoed UT2007 and it had a quad sli setup running it with code unoptimized. So it seems at least a dual core gpu is atleast inorder for the systems to truely look next gen. Or ethier it's gona take new tech.
Don't even get me started on games.... The fact that the controller is abstract simply means the developer will have to make Gasp a game that is not a microsoft wizard version of another game. Most developers are so use to thinking about what works now and how they are going to crap all of those weapon selection screens into the interface of the wand... There's not a lot of buttons on that controller man...LOL
Armin @ Mar 7th 2006 10:35AM
You have to remember, Nintendo has patented much of the technology they use with the controller, also the way it's used, so there is a clear limit on how much MS and Sony can replicate.
huZZah @ Mar 7th 2006 10:41AM
So many good comments it's hard to say what hasn't already been said, but kudos to Kye and many others for their honest and insightful posts. I too, am a mid-late twentysomething and wax nostalgic over Nintendo and have owned every system they have made at one time or another, save for the tragic Virtual Boy. Not that I haven't looked for greener pastures in the past, because last generation I pre-ordered a PS2 and bought an Xbox within the first year of release, and only got a Gamecube about a year and half ago...
And I must say when I did get the GCN it was like coming home after a stay in a foreign land, not that I didn't like my PS2 or Xbox, but they lack a certain "magic" and familiarity that enbodies fun and what video games are all about. I think we've all gone through our phases when we desire extreme violence, mature themes, or "blast processing" but those things don't make games fun, but serve as amusing distrations from time to time.
I lusted for a PSP when I first saw one at E3 '04 and the DS was all behind closed doors and I didn't even bother to wait in line to see it, but now less than two years later I own a DS and play it every day and a PSP while it still looks cool, lost a lot of its appeal and is something I can wait for and may never end up getting. I feel the same way about the consoles, I may or may not get a 360 or PS3, but I'll be in line this time to pick up my Revolution.
I don't know if this will be my last generation of videogames and I guess that just depends on what the future brings, but I'm actually hope this next-gen stays around awhile. I think there's still a lot being left on the table from this gen, but graphics have reached a plateau and to me they are a non issue at this point. I really liked the Revolution teaser just showing people playing the system, because while I can't wait to see the games and what they'll look like, it's more about the whole experience and how fun it'll be.
ck @ Mar 7th 2006 10:58AM
"There is also a potential downside - assuming it is a huge success, it could be a pyrrhic victory; I am not convinced that others - third or first parties - can't offer similar styles of controller for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, eroding the Revolution's advantage."
I think the Revolution's advantage doesn't lie solely with the controller. Price is going to be the biggest advantage on getting families and casual gamers for the Revolution. Hardcore gamers are going to love the virtual library and (hopefully) potential online community.
Nintendo isn't putting all of its money on the controller. That's all we talk about now, but the Revolution will be talked about more so for the games than the technology behind it. Sony & Microsoft can imitate, but do you really think they're going to make really fun, interesting games? They're going to make niche, quirky, gimmicky games if they do create a similar controller.
Bearing that in mind, I'll buy the Revolution first, and when they redesign the PS3 and make it smaller and more affordable, I'll buy it then.
Doom3 @ Mar 7th 2006 11:05AM
Game wise even EA was unsure of what to do. I'm sure you'll be faking off online safeties with the rev controller just like when you used an imaginary foot ball. Take the fps[s] for starters. It has survived this long and mostly due to the Pc's interface. Any one remember playing turok for the first time or golden eye. Those controller set ups where totally different but they both worked. Golden eye was simply the funnest becuase of the controll. Gamers had fun in wittnesses their own skills displayed in front of them. No auto lock on, no cheating just skill. Some of the funnest games have simple controlls that lets the player put their spin on them in order to win or show skill. Thats what gaming use to be about.
Nintendo is effectively taking all of the excusses that developers rely on now and dismissing them. Next gen will cost alot of money. Hey it's an add on controller with no installment base well we don't need to "think" about making a game for that.
Yet those excuses will be the main reason why sony or MS don't see success on their systems with a rev style controller.
The proximity idea completly open up new doors game play wise for me. I mean imagine a game called run away... You tilt the two handed controllers forward to run. You tilt the controller the way you want to go. You press the triggers and pump your arms to run faster... You can shut door by actualy grabing them with the face buttons and shutting them to keep your chaser from catching you. You can hold the door with one hand while you pull a dresser to actually widge the door. I mean man come on you can actually pull the controller back from the screen to dodge a chasers grasp. You can say you wouldn't just want to try a game like that. With two controllers the system can even see if tilted and weaving. Of course you want have to do this for long periods the game will be set up into short burst of relentless game play.
Jumping is acomplished the same way long jumpers or bball player jump with both hands going up with the force of your trust deciding you distance.
You don't need any weapon or object of course other thing would be added to spice up a game like this but hey if you like ctf type games race games, survivor horror games, fighting games then i think you could like a game like this.
The abstractness of such a game would rely on the expirence which is what game play is about. Once the wow wears off of the graphics then you start looking at ok why is there a fountain there? Can I use it?
The realism race has gone on far enough I want to see games drive games again instead of stories, cgi movies. I'm not saying that has to stop but just take a look at geometry wars and tell me people don't want more games that are fun.
Look at the patten for two points of controll and tell me you can find a cool way to use that?
Also too nintendo has introduced the first true 3d controller. Every thing else has relied upon a 2d axis. Your axis of controll truelly is 3d now.
I'm sure along with easy and hard settings developers are going to offer emersion and I'm just lazy give me some button options...LOL. But the controlls will be as robotic as button mashing.
I just hope these developers are just keeping quiet about their plans. To excute a simple game like above would take lots of controll tweaking almost street fight style. But the game is as simple as escaping.
SuicideNinja @ Mar 7th 2006 11:19AM
I love the negative attitude "Gamers just want to sit back in the couch and play."
Realistically, if you are sitting back in the couch and playing, then the game you are playing must not be very intense or even remotely interesting. You must be PS2 titles (especially offline), because that's generally the only system that when I'm playing it, I'm just playing for the sake of playing to get my money's worth (spare a select few good titles, and RPGs don't count).
I want a game to be involving enough that I can't just lay back. That's why I hate watching television; there's no interaction, no control....you are a zombie. If Nintendo can pull off extremely involving titles in conjunction with the Revolution controller, then they will do quite well. They should have you sitting up at attention without thinking about it.
Sony and Microsoft can copy-cat the controller, but they won't be building many (if any) games that utitilize their afterthought versions. Saying that they will do such is like saying they'll both come out with DS-copys for portables and be just as successful.
The Revolution will my 2nd console and the PS3 my 3rd (if any games merit the purchase). Whether the 360 or PS3 is your first console, and you manage to still buy a Revolution, then how can Nintendo be a loser? They certainly won't have to sell their consoles at a loss like the competition.
DoooooorMAN @ Mar 7th 2006 11:28AM
Poster #1 said it best.
Anyone can make this controller, but only Nintendo will have it standard out of the box. We've seen what happens when you ship a Hard Drive in the middle of a consoles lifespan, as well as offering an option with and without it. Developers fall to the lowest common denominator and simply just dont use them.
I'm sure some companies will use the Revolution controller as a gimmick, but I think most will actually realise this is an important part of the game now, where we can actually interact a bit more than we used to, and we will (hopefully) see some really amazing and innovative games. Sure, I am looking forward to seeing how awesome the next Metroid will control as a FPS using it, but i'm REALLY looking for the games that will make people go 'holy crap! I didn't even think of that!' - Much like Kirbys Canvas Curse on the DS. A single title like that, will make the entire system worth it, I think.
r0Be @ Mar 7th 2006 2:13PM
I just had a great thought, IMO, about the Revolution launch.
First just to state it, I am 27 and married, been a Nintendo fan my whole life and will never stop. I will never ever forget my NES Christmas....truly magical. I started with Atari, but it was Nintendo that really hooked me.
Anyway, how great would a packaged version of duckhunt designed to work with the Rev controller be if it was included with the console. Long ago, you got a "free" game with your console purchase. Bring it back Nintendo! Don't wait for sales to decline later in the consoles life to try to re-energize with this strategy, just do it from the beginning.
Duckhunt with the Rev would pwn.
Pretty Obvious @ Mar 7th 2006 2:34PM
Like Ive said before, a controller doesnt make a console next-gen. A controller can easily be copied by competitors however Nintendo will be hard pressed to copy the impressive specs of the 360 and PS3.
Software will be enough to push them ahead? So what software was able to push the Cube ahead of its competition? If Nintendo continues to push out 2 or 3 quality titles a year you can tell them goodnight and farewell. Whats stopping Microsoft or Sony from getting 3rd party ports with upgraded graphics for their revolution style controller? Oh yeah, lack of third party for the Revolution.
For gamers who want to spend the extra money and get the total package they can always go with Sony or Microsoft. For the cheap gamer or parent who doesnt want to spend all that cash on their kid the Revolution will be key.
ngS @ Mar 7th 2006 4:01PM
you know I have an xbox360 and a 60 inchs HDTV (well actually my father has).. .. and I can tell you, it totally... .... ..... .. wait for it... wait for it.. .... SUCKS!!!!!!...
HDTV is the lamest invension ever... it looks so.. normal. .. ... .. and yet.. its so expensive, I would gladly pay $200 dollars less so I can get a console that doesnt take me to the "hd era", I totally understand why Nintendo didn't want a part of it, also I understand why they don't want to push graphics that far, it's just not worthy, the difference is non-existent, and also I realized that when I'm actually playing.. I kinda... don't even notice the graphics... IMHO Nintendo has the right idea...
Jed Merrill @ Mar 7th 2006 4:35PM
I agree with Kye. The Rev will without a doubt be my FIRST system, with the 360 possibly becoming a second and the PS3 rotting on the vine as far as I care. I don't need both a PS3 and a 360, and it's not clear I need a 360 yet, either. But a Rev I want, at or before launch. It's evolution. It's inspiration. If I had to bet on one of the three companies coming out tops, if not by much, it would be Nintendo. Would I have said that a year ago? No, but Sony and MS and Nintendo are proving me right.
Gavin @ Mar 7th 2006 4:59PM
Reading all the comments here, I can see a bunch of nostalgic fanboys blinded by false hope. Again, if people want to wave things at their TV they can already buy a Xavix. Gimmicky motion based input has never taken off in the console industry and never will.
You guys can pretend that some "Revolution" is truly on the horizon of gaming, but it is a mass produced industry just like every other aspect of the various entertainment industries that exist. Nintendo has lost the console war because they haven't got the ties with 3rd party developers or the massive marketing might behind them that Sony does.
You guys get all caught up in your lofty childhood dreams of curling up in front of the NES back in the 80's. I was one of those kids two, but my ideas of business and retail operations doesn't obscure my vision of what is realisitically possible for Nintendo in the modern markteplace.
The Revolution might not be your last console....but it probably will be the last one you see from Nintendo. Just like Sega couldn't compete with the massive corporate engine of Sony and MS, so to will Nintendo be unable to last.
The handheld field is their last holdout, and when they stop being able to work that cartridge money making sacm in that area, then their last stable stream of revenue will have ended.
Carts can't last forever people as much as Nintendo tries to make it last, and it truly the only area they excel at making money with.
RandomBoy @ Mar 7th 2006 5:18PM
Gavin, I bet you were one of the "oh so clever" people that thought that the PSP will take the DS to school.
Well, whose your daddy?..
Who do you think owns most of that 100 million PS2s?, that's right little kids but I don't see them getting a PS3 if it costs nearly as much as is being predicted.
Plus, when Sony starts advertising all that processing power, internet capability (pr0n) and all its other features including the trojan horse blueray, it would no longer be considered suitable for kids. GAMES ARE TOYS.
tellute @ Mar 7th 2006 5:19PM
Wow this could be the best run of comments on this site in months.
Isn't it great to see some well thought out, mostly polite, thoughts of mature gamers?
On the downside, I've got nothing to say that others haven't already said better. :o)
Gavin @ Mar 7th 2006 5:34PM
Sorry RandomBoy, but gamers aren't kids. The biggest and most powerful demographic in the _Console_ industry for gaming is teens to thirty-somethings. The reason the PSP didn't take off against the DS is because older gamers that would have the money to buy it would be more likely to put that money into a home based console.
Portables are mainly for kids. Just go look at the software library for the Gameboy systems if you don't believe me. There is a reason Sean Baby milks that joke concerning reviewing Gameboy games in EGM and because the VAST majority of them are churned out crap licensed Nickelodeon, Disney, random movie licensed junk or revamped old games. The quality titles are slim pickings.
And there is my point about how Nintendo continues to make money in that area. Through the sale of carts. Parents buy those crap games for their kids just to shut them up and Nintendo makes bucks on every single game sold for the system because they make the carts. That is why they have huch a huge revenue stream coming from portables.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the games.
Also, if you think that Nintendo just has to wave it's magic wand and fantastic games come into being, then you haven't paid attention to the lack of high quality games coming out for the Gamecube on a regular basis. I have a PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube and when I go shopping for new games every month guess which one is the hardest to find games for?
Nintendo has convinced everyone that they aren't trying to directly compete with Sony in the console realm because the bottom line is they can't.
Saying that they are trying for a different market is just a way of making excuses for them.
Kye @ Mar 7th 2006 5:36PM
First off I would like to thank all those who have agreed with me. I really didn't expect so much support (Any really to be honest).
All I was doing was speaking my mind, and later this year I will be putting my money where my mouth is.
True, maybe Nintendo lovers are all too old or too young to know whats "cool".
True, we may suffer from a bad case of nostalgia. And want to try to relive happier, simpler days. And share them with our loved ones.
True, we may not realise that killing alien hookers, and playing slightyly-improved-sports-game-version-twelveteen is the best things ever happened to us.
But at least we know what we like. And are not afraid to stand out from the crowd.
At least we are not led like sheep, to far away pastures with promises of greener grass, while the grass we have already is good enough.
At least we know a good game when it comes along.
We appreciate good graphics. And more-so, good gameplay.
We'd rather play our favorite version of a series because we like it, than brown-nose the latest release because it's the prettiest.
No, we are not techno-philes. So being able to see everyblade of grass matters to us not.
No, we don't need to watch movies on a media that doesnt exist to the public yet.
No, we dont need another PC in our living room.
What we want are quality, well-thought out games. Not quick cash cows.
That's what Nintendo gives us.
That's why they will always survive.
And we don't Say Nintendo games are good because we buy them. We buy them because they are good.
So, to all the nay-sayers. Go and buy what someone else tells you will be good.
Us Nintendo lovers will buy what we know is going to be great.
Long live Nintendo.
Pretty Obvious @ Mar 7th 2006 5:47PM
Gavin you def know what your talking about. Any Cube owner who isnt half as blinded by their fanboyism would realize that by looking at the amount of quality titles they get per year. I mean last year you had Resident Evil 4 and............. uh, you get the point.
Kye @ Mar 7th 2006 5:50PM
True, PS games far outnumber GC games.
But lets compare QUALITY now.
Go on, name me a dozen PS2 exclusives that are really really good all round.
*awkward silence* The PS2 and PS1 both have loads of good games. But 50 times more absolutely sh*t ones.
The ratio for good to crap games on the GC is much much less.
(yes, go on - say that the GC only has 50 games to begin with. How witty of you, ha ha ha...)
My point? Quality over qunatity anyday!