Revolution editorial reiterates gameplay over graphics
While some feel the Revolution will
be the second console of choice, Matt Casamassina, editor from IGN - Nintendo (cube.ign.com) believes Nintendo's
next-gen system will be the one that "everybody wants." Granted, those differing opinions could be one in the
same if our poll results come to
fruition. From the article: "Clearly, graphics are important, but as any addict (myself included) should know,
games are ultimately designed to be played, not simply gawked over. And if a game doesn't play well, all its fancy
graphics may as well be for nothing."So a second choice console could dominate the market based on a first choice split. Sounds like a paradox to us.
[Thanks, Matthew]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 5:17AM
Editor of IGN Nintendo in "Nintendo's next-gen system will be the one that everyone wants" shocker? Wow! Say it ain't so, Joystiq.
Next week: J Allard believes Xbox 360 will win the console war! Ken Kutaragi in controversy storm as he claims PS3 will be best!
Nico @ Mar 9th 2006 5:19AM
If Nintendo wants to be the console everyone buys it has to differentiate it self on price(as they say they will). If Nintendo releases a console thats much cheaper than its competitors it can achive its desired status.
As both Sony and Microsoft wants to be media centers as much as game consoles Nintendo has an uniqe oppertunity to market itself as the only pure gaming console out there.
It however remains to see if this prediction will be true outside of the core gamer market, I mean why would a regular consumer buy 2 consoles? The other 2 consoles will have extended media functionality and this may be a leverage with the average consumer who just wants a box to game on and sees this as an oppertunity to get more for their money.
Either way I will get 2 consoles. A rev for the cool controller and a PS3 for HD gaming and divx streaming.
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 5:30AM
"As both Sony and Microsoft wants to be media centers as much as game consoles Nintendo has an uniqe oppertunity to market itself as the only pure gaming console out there."
Yes, as Nintendo did so successfully with GameCube and its hey-it-doesn't-play-DVDs-because-we're-all-about-teh-gamez. What a roaring success that was! Nintendo couldn't market condoms in a brothel, so I don't see how Revolution will be any different.
It's all about price, that's Nintendo's foothold into the next-gen console war. But this subject has already been beaten to death. So the only thing I'm going to add to this tiresome debate is Nintendo really need to release new IP alongside Revolution so there are no more months where the only thing on the release list is Mario Party 58 or Mario Gardening or whatever.
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 5:31AM
"As both Sony and Microsoft wants to be media centers as much as game consoles Nintendo has an uniqe oppertunity to market itself as the only pure gaming console out there."
Yes, as Nintendo did so successfully with GameCube and its hey-it-doesn't-play-DVDs-because-we're-all-about-teh-gamez. What a roaring success that was! Nintendo couldn't market condoms in a brothel, so I don't see how Revolution will be any different.
It's all about price, that's Nintendo's foothold into the next-gen console war. But this subject has already been beaten to death. So the only thing I'm going to add to this tiresome debate is Nintendo really need to release new IP alongside Revolution so there are no more months where the only thing on the release list is Mario Party 58 or Mario Gardening or whatever.
Zero_ @ Mar 9th 2006 5:47AM
It all comes down to games, as it is clearly evident in this generation of gaming. Do players want a different way to play Mario? Maybe. I personally don't.
Jiguryo @ Mar 9th 2006 5:49AM
Jipped, Matt Cassamassina was the first one to slam Nintendo regarding their choice of downplaying HDTV on Revolution and so on, so it's not like he's a spokesperson for Nintendo. Don't be ridiculous.
And about the Gamecube being a success or not... the worldwide userbase difference between the Xbox and the Gamecube is so small comparatively that it seems ridiculous to say something along the lines of "Nintendo couldn't market condoms in a brothel". Even if the Xbox was the first home console from MS.
It seems like it's trendy to diss Nintendo these days, sheesh...
Deku-Nutz @ Mar 9th 2006 5:50AM
Well you might expect Matt over at IGN to be more than a little Bias towards Nintendo but actually he is not that much of a raving fanboy, and its certainly not like him to to shy away from airing his own negative opinions about Nintendo and their strategies. He has ruffled a lot of peoples feathers in the past over his anti-nintendo comments so don't be so quick to brush aside his comments.
He is only really saying what we all know is the truth. Nintendo really DO have an oppertunity to make it Big with the Revolution. Be it a PRIMARY or SECONDARY console. Its cheap and everyone is talking about it. People are already freaking out with excitement and they haven't seen a single game for it yet.
Nico @ Mar 9th 2006 6:01AM
@ #3
"Yes, as Nintendo did so successfully with GameCube and its hey-it-doesn't play-DVDs-because-we're- all-about-teh-gamez."
Yeah i agree Gamecube bombed because they had little to differentiate themselves from the competiotion, they had their IP but thats it. The gamecube was just another console minus some features at about the same price. They seem to have learned from this and is now much more focused on making and communicating a clear difference between their console and their competitors consoles. As in their controller and the yet to be announced supprise feature.
Personally i think they will succeed but IMO only in the niche market yeelding them good and steady profits but not as good mainstream sales.
soniCron @ Mar 9th 2006 6:02AM
Nintendo doesn't need to be cool. In fact, it's better if they're not. Nintendo is best off as "just what I didn't know I wanted." See, if the Revolution does what it's supposed to and they open with a sub $200 price tag, then we WILL see a revolution of gaming appliances. No. I didn't say console. I said gaming appliance: TV's, VCR's, DVD players, CD players, Nintendos... wait. Did I just say Nintendo? As in, "Do you wanna play some Nintendo?" Remember when Nintendo WAS gaming? Well, it's about to happen again, but this time on a much larger level. Nintendo is going to NAIL the largest, untapped market in gaming: The non-gamer. If Nintendo can appeal to the family unit -- "Mom is gonna get a Nintendo!" -- then we'll see the HUGEST surge of gamers we have EVER seen in the history of gaming, and Nintendo will dominate the field. Period.
And ALMOST EVERY comment I have read on the matter from current generation gamers since the unveiling of the Revolution controller have said point blank: I'm getting a Revolution. Take a CAREFUL look around, because even current gamers are very intrigued by the idea. Nintendo is dominating serious interest from gamers right now, even after the launch of one of the next generation contenders. There's no shortage of interest there.
And worried about third party titles? Just wait and see. You've heard all the comments from all the developers. You know who's excited about this hardware. And these developers (Suda, Kojima, etc.) have enough clout to pull it off. These guys are going to rock the boat -- we're going to see some of the most amazing third-party titles EVER, and they're going to be exclusive on the Revolution. Oh, don't you worry about the developers. They're coming.
Nintendo as a second console? Hah! Try 360/PS3 as a second console.
Welcome back the Nintendo age.
NergiZed @ Mar 9th 2006 6:14AM
Well I think the price point will be lower than the other two, but I don't think it'll be that low, probably $250. Anywho, I'll probably get a Revolution myself, I'm mainly a PC gamer, but the Revolution's controller is very mouse-like, and I think it'd be pretty cool, in fact it's functionality might even surpass the mouse.
Looking forward to some FPS on the Revolution, and that funny golf game that's coming out for it :D, the PS version was great. :)
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 6:18AM
He's the editor of IGN Nintendo. He might slam Nintendo for certain decisions but is he really going to turn around and say anything other than Revolution will be the first choice console/roaring success? Of course not. If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if the occasional criticism is made in order to try and balance and justify the fact that his agenda is tied to Nintendo and always will be tied to Nintendo, as he's the editor of - you guessed it - IGN Nintendo.
I'm not criticising the guy for it. After all, it's his job. But I hardly think a Nintendo editor endorsing a Nintendo console quantifies as a decent news story.
"the worldwide userbase difference between the Xbox and the Gamecube is so small comparatively that it seems ridiculous to say something along the lines of "Nintendo couldn't market condoms in a brothel"."
Sure, that's one way of looking at it. But this completely ignores the fact that Xbox had no history, no experience in the console race, was universally damned before launch, had to deal with 'PC in a box' and 'will be teh buggy like Windows!' mocking and only had one strong title at launch. If anything, the fact the worldwide userbase difference between the Xbox and the Gamecube is so small comparatively only serves to point out how disastrous Nintendo's last-gen (this-gen? last-gen?) efforts actually were.
I'm talking as a European, so perhaps I'm looking at Nintendo's cack-handed marketing from a different perspective from you. But what I remember are few TV ads anywhere compared to Microsoft and Sony's dominant presence across all media, key GameCube titles that were 60Hz in a territory that hadn't fully embraced the format, a botched Resident Evil 4 launch in the UK, GameCube prices bouncing up and down like a gymnast and low retail presence for almost all of its shelf life.
And if anything, it's trendy for Nintendo fans to get over-protective about their dear beloved company. Look at the polls on Joystiq. There's plenty of Nintendo love going round. I hardly think Iwata is going to cry himself to sleep at night over anything I've said. Or Matt Cassamassina, for that matter.
Jay @ Mar 9th 2006 6:20AM
tch. I'm sick of this second console thing. The Rev (effectively making my NES and N64 obsolete) will be my first and main machine. My Dreamcast will be my second. The PS3 and Xbox 360 will be far far back there. I don't want to play Xbox and PS2 with prettier graphics. I have no desire to pay MORE to play games online (on top of broadband fee's).
Nintendo have already won to me. I keep an open mind for the PS3. But if it really is everything we know about it now; I'm just not excited so I won't bother.
Teh gamezzor. I couldn't give a rats arse about Tekken, GTA, GT, etc. Really couldn't care less.
As the DS has shown. gameplay>graphics for 1/4 of the people of the world. those same people are probably going to get a Rev for only a bit more than they paid for a DS. Bam! Weeee have a winner.
shadekh @ Mar 9th 2006 6:22AM
Gameplay is one thing that the gamecube also had, yet it could hold a torch to the ps2 anywhere in the world. The problem with the revolution is that it will have good games, but it would miss out on many good games too.
However, if nintendo truly launch it cheaply then it would be a viable choice as a second console next to a primary one. That way, yes, the Rev could be a console that "everybody wants". But then, this talk of hd graphics and comparisons with the big two dosent really matter, does it? If done properly, the rev will occupy its own niche and though playing second fiddle to the main consoles, still find a place in the living room. Its diminuitive dimensions also help.
Whuh? @ Mar 9th 2006 6:55AM
Why does everyone say next gen is about pricing? Gamecube was the cheapest console this gen, why isn't it selling like hotcake? Graphic will matter in the next gen. Look at all the people complaining and whining about how some Xbox 360 games doesn't look next gen and they are put off because of that.
Lou D @ Mar 9th 2006 7:09AM
Revolution's the size of a single DIN car stereo. I might get a second one when it's released and put the in my car with a 7" LCD screen. Might even replace my stereo completely if someone makes a media player front end for it.
If Nintendo ports the Opera browser for it like they are with the DS, then I could surf the web at Dunkin' Donuts!
charlie @ Mar 9th 2006 7:30AM
Well, I can say that I'm not really a loyal Nintendo gamer, but I definately want a revolution IF THEY SUCCEED IN SUPPORTING NES, SNES, AND N64 GAMES. I'll probably own either an X360 or PS3 too.
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 7:35AM
"Why does everyone say next gen is about pricing? Gamecube was the cheapest console this gen, why isn't it selling like hotcake?"
I know it's a saying but I don't think I've ever bought a hotcake. Are they like normal cakes but warmed up or what?
Anyway, the PS2 and Xbox were fairly cheap too, at least cheap enough to nullify price as one of GameCube's strengths. The difference with Revolution is that PS3 will, according to the rumours from whatever website has picked up on it this week, be quite expensive from the outset. Xbox 360 already is fairly expensive.
Also, GameCube was cheap but wasn't offering anything truly different. Revolution is. It's offseting the kookiness of its control with a cheap price that, in console hardware terms at least, will probably be in the 'impulse perchase' range. In fact, if you combine the two, people will be quite tempted to try the Revolution - if it's different and it's cheap, that will be what sells it to the mainstream, or so the theory goes.
And I apologise in advance for using the word kookiness. I did try and think of a decent alternative word to kookiness but got bored after a few seconds.
striderhayasa @ Mar 9th 2006 7:43AM
This debate is killing me. The big difference between the Rev and the Gamecube is that the Cube was pretty much the same as the PS2 and the Xbox minus DVD movie playback. Nintendo didn't really do much to make the Cube different and the joystick, while great to use for some titles, was butt munch with others. It was easy to bypass the Cube for the PS2 or the Box because of the superior 3rd party support elsewhere and the Cube's kiddie image. Even Nintendo admitted that the Cube design is childish. But...
I agree with many readers of joystiq and have said this time and again. Nintendo is putting the Rev in a position to truly offer something different. I just can't be impressed with prettier graphics on a console. I play PC games too so what is the hype machine going to do for me in terms of console graphic capabilites? I need great gameplay. I hear people mentioning Ninja Gaiden and GTA and Metal Gear and Tekken and this is all well and good. But how did the gameplay evolve from GTA 3 to San Andreas? Not much really. How about Tekken 3 to Tekken 5? Side step still doesn't work and cheap wall juggles is not what I call an evolution in gameplay. As good as Ninja Gaiden is there is no one anywhere that can convince me that its not a straight Devil May Cry rip, just like Dead or Alive is still trying very hard to be a better Virtual Fighter. Try again. I need new ways to play. Nintendo is offering new ways to play for a cheaper price. DS has convinced me. Can I ever go back to single screen Mario Kart? I doubt it. Touch Screen controls with Age of Empires? Sweet! Now can I get a StarCraft on DS with WiFi Support? Metroid Prime Hunters? The days of Goldeneye deathmatch reborn on DS in a Metroid Universe with ....wait for it....FREE wifi support, one player campaign and VoIP.
If the DS is an example of what Nintendo is going for with the Rev. Why is that a bad thing?
Jeff @ Mar 9th 2006 8:00AM
Deku-Nutz: the word is "biased". You can't just start turning nouns into adjectives, especially when the adjective form already exists.
Anyway, most of what I could say here has already been said, but I just want to say that if Nintendo is going to market the Rev based on either its price or its game selection, then they haven't learned anything from the GameCube. Yes, the Revolution should offer new gameplay experiences. But they need to focus on that innovation - price is not as much of a differentiating factor as they think it is, and not as many people buy a system just for Mario as they would like.
I also don't think it's very smart of them to continuously try to deflect attention from the technology. What's it saying about your system when you have to constantly lower expectations about what it can do? What's that telling consumers? If Sony taught us anything, it's that the best strategy is to raise expectations unrealistically, sell a bunch of systems before anyone notices how overhyped it was, and reach a critical mass for your installed base that developers can't ignore. You just need enough people to buy the system to get it off the ground. It doesn't really matter how you get there.
Nintendo tried the honest approach with the GameCube; they said it wasn't about the power of the system, and the performance specs they put out were "real-world" specs that looked significantly worse than the PS2. Only real hardcore gamers realize that the GameCube is actually more powerful than the PS2 - I've talked to plenty of more casual gamers that think otherwise.
It's not power that ultimately determines the winner of a console war. But the *perception* of power can mean the difference between getting to that first million systems sold within a month or six months, and that makes a huge difference in developer support.
Thomas Crymes @ Mar 9th 2006 8:31AM
I hope the Revolution does well, and I don't even care if it emerges #1. It just baffles me that so many people are proclaiming it the best system hands down because of a controller, and Nintendo's ability to make great games. We haven't seen a system. We haven't even seen a technology demo. We haven't seen a screenshot or a running game. The PS3 is shrouded in mystery, yet I could write an entire book of what I know about the PS3 compared to the pamphlet of information I know about the Revolution.
It's the games, not the hardware, and if the Revolution's new controller is a hit, Sony and Microsoft will have their own version of it.
pete @ Mar 9th 2006 8:43AM
#11 jay, I'm glad I'm not the only one that will be setting my Rev next to my Dreamcast. The only 2 recent consoles with true next-gen thinking in their creation.
Insane in the mainframe @ Mar 9th 2006 9:11AM
"Nintendo doesn't need to be cool. In fact, it's better if they're not. "
Hate to break to you its a superficial world, companies tend to look at image for marketability, usually not being "cool" means its not gonna sell well towards people who "cool".
" I hear people mentioning Ninja Gaiden and GTA and Metal Gear and Tekken and this is all well and good. But how did the gameplay evolve from GTA 3 to San Andreas? Not much really. How about Tekken 3 to Tekken 5?"
I havent played the others much, but Metal gear solid did it allow people use camo, keeping stamina and also basic jungle first aid. The fact will remain, basic gameplay wont change much neither will mario from jumping and shooting fireballs with a revolution controller.
Todd @ Mar 9th 2006 9:41AM
I'm seeing a trend with the anti-Nintendo crowd these days. I'll call it the "It didn't work for the Gamecube" howl. It sure sounds like they can't find anything wrong with the Revolution and they realize that the amount of people interested in it are a lot more than Nintendo has had in a long time. So they are looking else where to find anything they can to try to take the company down a notch. I see the Virtual Boy excuses every so often in an attempt to prove Nintendo dont know what the public wants. So does that mean I can talk about Sony and Microsoft and their past failures to try to prove that the PS3 & 360 will ultimately fail?
If we look back to the NES days you'll see that there was a NES in 1 out of every 3 homes. A lot of my friends remember those days and even remember specific conquests on the machine. Now they could care less about the direction games are going. Some of them had a SNES but for most the NES was the last one they owned. Now, for the first time since they are interested in seeing what Nintendo is going to do. Nintendo is really in a unique position because there are SO MANY people out there that have fond memories of Nintendo, but don't own a console. If they can get those people to take notice again then they could easily be back on top. The PS3 & 360 appeal to the hardcore gamer the most as well as some others, but they can never say that they appeal to the person who used to be a gamer in their youth. Oh and to go ahead and get this argument out of the way...NOBODY is going to go out and buy a 360 just so they can play old arcade games.
pr0cs @ Mar 9th 2006 9:58AM
Ah yes the token Revolution fanboy newsbyte and thread, what would Joystiq be without having at least one non-story related fanboy newbit?
How about posting something with information in it rather than more useless conjecture?
I have never seen a console with so little information and so many rabid fanboys that will debate the "sky being blue" even though they've never seen it.
Doom3 @ Mar 9th 2006 9:59AM
I also don't think it's very smart of them to continuously try to deflect attention from the technology. -jeff
Because we have nothing about real specs were all excited about game play now, who do you think thats benefiting, gamers and Nintendo. Sounds smart to me. I mean why are you so worried about more power when xbox and even the ps3 demos show nothing in the game play relm that benefits from it?
What's it saying about your system when you have to constantly lower expectations about what it can do? What's that telling consumers? If Sony taught us anything, it's that the best strategy is to raise expectations unrealistically, sell a bunch of systems before anyone notices how overhyped it was, and reach a critical mass for your installed base that developers can't ignore. You just need enough people to buy the system to get it off the ground. It doesn't really matter how you get there. -jeff
You contradicted your self there, Nintendo has that critical mass on some true Trojan horse mess with this is my second console choice. You dont get that kind of excitement by following the same plan every one else is following. Its like every knows they want a new game but they are almost surprised that they actually want to get a Nintendo console for that new game because that didnt use to be the popular thing to do. Truly there was no real reason to buy a different system last gen. They did it off of realizing what was wrong with gaming. It was ran the same way graphic card makers run their market. Too much hypePeople get tired of getting lied to delays feel like lies but the last few e3 launches where just friggin lies. But the hardcore pc gamers are about to come back to gaming, why you say -that controller a dream for the fps fan. They bring a different view to gaming as we constantly judge hardware on what it actually offers verses the cost. They also know that controllers are what makes the gaming experiences fun. Nintendo has no competition right there and they do own part of that company(gyro).
Nintendo tried the honest approach with the GameCube; they said it wasn't about the power of the system, and the performance specs they put out were "real-world" specs that looked significantly worse than the PS2. Only real hardcore gamers realize that the GameCube is actually more powerful than the PS2 - I've talked to plenty of more casual gamers that think otherwise. -jeff
Its the same way in the graphics card game man. The one problem is the xbox 360s release. I must admit the shader out put is pretty nice. How much better is the ps3 games going to look?No one is wowed by the new level of cg infact its the same reason cg isnt the main draw of movies. Plus on top of that videogames are now compared even more to cg and we all know who is going to win that battle(cgi). Thats the problem, if sony doesnt blow the xbox 360 away graphicly they will get put into the same category and its not going to help sonys image if the hype isnt pulled off this time. The disappointment is going to be worst because more money is involved, they have the same friggin controller for a next gen system? Then on top of that they gave Nintendo a chance to pull a Tyson old school knock out. Youve seen the metroid 3 videos all they have to do is produce graphics at the same caliber then they effectively are on the same level as the 3d pr0n kings yet offer some extras that are truly eye opening to a number of players and non players.
It's not power that ultimately determines the winner of a console war. But the *perception* of power can mean the difference between getting to that first million systems sold within a month or six months, and that makes a huge difference in developer support.
I couldnt have said it better but you should change one word You should say the *perception of fun* That is truly more powerful than the idea of more power because the power thing is some thing wanna be developers and fans like them that dream of making games think about. Its like professional graphics cards vs normal gaming cards. Even the price ratio is almost the same $600 vs $2000 but the $600 card actually runs games better. Its the perception of fun because this is about gaming. A good gaming machine is automatically cool. Thats why the hardware hype thing may burn out this time. It happened with the super grafx, and neogeo which where truly huge graphical leaps for any thing.
I mean when you start feeling some thing is over price after seeing its competition right beside it then you start think dayum I could of bought 10 to 5 games with that money. The funny thing about this is Nintendo needs about ten games before the ps3 launch to pull that off. The rumors of a delay could help that out. They need games that people say oH! smack I gotta buy that! They need about two graphics beast one at launch one right before the ps3 launch( to really just say we dont like to bragg but we will thank you), A Wow type game(wifi of course and if you could play against exsisting wow players that would be even better), two or 3 competing fps (metriod 3) one squad based one realistic or some thing new please(?), a Zelda, a Mario that mixes paper Mario and Mario 3 up to Mario world( those are the marios that people want to play), A sick racing game F zero, A sonic game that fouces on crashing thur stuff (sonic smash?) a customize ya ride game maybe?, Two or three EA sports game that lets you design plays, about two or three adult games ranging from tetris type fun to the new brain train game. A shadow of the C type adventure game, a few more innovative platform games/ adventure gamesOf couse a street fighter that brings back the final fight days it still hasnt been done right yet. Thats just to satisfy the current crowd of gamers. Then there are the DS style games that really show every one whats so much fun about this system. Then the controller shells are some thing Im really looking forward to seeing also. There is so much to try out that could actually be fun.
Nate @ Mar 9th 2006 10:16AM
"So a second choice console could dominate the market based on a first choice split."
This whole discussion hinges on the assumption that most gamers own more than one console from the same generation. Are there any statistics that back this up?
Sure, us hardcore gamers who post messages at Joystiq probably have multiple consoles, but I seriously doubt the large majority of console gamers own more than one machine.
Doom3 @ Mar 9th 2006 10:18AM
Pr0cs the problem is we have seen it and your acting like you havn't. We are acting like gamers and getting excited over the controller, why worry about graphics? I think 2 to 3 times the GC is all the xbox is really working with... Some say the ps3 may be alittle under the xbox even? So why worry about graphics? Games... We know what nintendo is going to make.. If you don't like the new look to zelda and fighting real time on horse back.. well I'm sorry for you. I already know nintendo makes fun games... (metroid prime) (mario cart They got it right for real now it on!) So why not get excited?
What is so usefull about An individual hardware Cell number of elements:
1 Power Processor Element (PPE)
8 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs).
Element Interconnect Bus (EIB).
Direct Memory Access Controller (DMAC).
2 Rambus XDR memory controllers.
Rambus FlexIO (Input / Output) interface.
Oyeah it's surpose to be power but hey I think we need a nvidia card? Huh? what so useful about that. Three processors and another video card maker in the xbox 360...WOW but myt pc still can dust it? And some how they are both on par with each other?o0o0o0o It's true power is untapped? Well you won't tap my wallit till you do how is that? I mean If we aren't going to see the real power of these two systems till some one finishes grad school to build games for them than why buy it when it comes out?
It's cool to see people saying I support the rev instead of just getting one becuase they hate another company. That means their into gaming. The brand loyalty can only keep you afloat for so long.
Yeti @ Mar 9th 2006 10:50AM
I'm holding off judgement on the Revolution till I can actually play it at a store. If the DS is any basis though then initially the Rev will have a lot of "gimic" games followed 6 months later with games that truly show off the controller. This is true for most consoles though.
Doom3 @ Mar 9th 2006 10:58AM
So you admit price is a problem... nate? Owning two systems is extreme but it happens...
I know people with an xbox, I have a ps2 and a gc, dc. None of the people with an xbox now has made a leap to the 360. Why... cost and the games don't warrant a buy and the halo xbox guys don't have halo 360 to look forward to yet. So every one saying they are going to get an xbox 360 then a rev are few. People saying I'll get a rev then an xbox 360 when the price drops could easily out number the current xbox owners... The xbox only beat the gc by 2 mill (20+ to 22 mill). Xbox still has no presents in japan and the current graphic update isn't helping... Hopefully the rpg bug can give it a boost.
It looks like the rev will come out before the ps3 so every one saying they will get a ps3 and rev will have the rev as their primary for a while before the ps3. So if nintendo some how drops ten must have games and really wow some people with graphics then where is the normal gamer going to get that ps3 cash ranging from 400-500+ dollars? Thats not even a normal gamer type price?
It's sort of like when people get all excited about a getting some thing they know is really expensive then some thing DISRUPTIVE comes along and makes them spend that money. On top of that what if every one is having fun with their rev and just don't bother to get an over priced ps3. What if people just rent a ps3 instead? Ouch I mean dayum Dreamcast ouch.
How are you going to ask for stats when we all know numbers have no baring on a future that is about to happen. Stop being a business analysis when you know this is about creative media. They are post aftermath predictors. Meaning they tell you what has already happened. Just off the success of the ds and the current trend of "Rev is my second console" too type responds you should know some thing is happening. Look at the hype all around youYeah the revCool controller idea if you have an imagination Its hype about nothing if your happy with your current ps2 or xbox, but if thats the case then Sony and MS are just competition against their own last consumer base right? I mean guys like you prove that. And sales like the xbox 360 dont look good to me.
So thats why hardcore gamers post here we all let sony win because we wanted a dvd player deep down. Now they have another dvd tech or shall i say tax? Sony better just eat the cost of that the way they did with the dvd player. I like my dvd collection. And my pc will always get my hd tv input. I truly think the ps3 is suppose to be a hardcore dream machine at the expense of every one else even gaming. Go play Mario 3, sonic, quake3, ut2004, some shooters, some retro and then come and tell me what fun is. You keep playing it even when you know it;s old news. Puzzels are for columns tetris, doc Mario, myth type games not find the key stuff too much they are fun too.
Wow has way more people online than any other game and Nintendo has the fastest growing wifi group of players with nothing standing in their way no limit or too much infa structure.
Doom3 @ Mar 9th 2006 11:17AM
The key to a gimmic game is if it is easy to pick up but envoles skill to master... Then it's not a gimmic anymore. The same idea of the gimmic is why non gamers don't play games... It takes no real skill, or no skill is displayed that they can relate to.
Hey time will tell, plus if it's actually fun for more than a month then no one will care if it is a gimmc... Super monkey balls? or hell the whole gaming industry... what isn't a gimmic? Thats why the industry is where it's at right now. Graphical gimmics verse game play gimmics that are fun...
Sequels to gimmics no one liked... but maybe a few.
What you call the ds gimmic game I call proof of concept games... They introduce you to what is possible. The idea is to get people comfortable with the idea of those controll then drop games that just ooose game play. We all know that takes time. But won't alot of nintendo be playing retro games during that time?
Truthfully I'll buy a rev controller to see how it works at first It's such a cool idea when applied correctly... sort of like what retro did with metroid and the ball morph. Then I'll look for to games past res evil 4's and zelda's calibar because this system can use the advancments already designed for the GC and just prettify them ahalla xbox 360, ps3.
The ps3 is about to have a 6 month slip right? I'll let you do the math.. but we all know it's up to sony , nintendo , to map their own destiny... Mean while Poeple like me will get exited at next generation ways to play games. You have to realise this is like the intel mhz race right now when it comes to graphics you won't see those hugh jumps that much anymore between the systems.
Ive Been Jipped @ Mar 9th 2006 11:32AM
"I'm seeing a trend with the anti-Nintendo crowd these days. I'll call it the "It didn't work for the Gamecube" howl. It sure sounds like they can't find anything wrong with the Revolution and they realize that the amount of people interested in it are a lot more than Nintendo has had in a long time. So they are looking else where to find anything they can to try to take the company down a notch. I see the Virtual Boy excuses every so often in an attempt to prove Nintendo dont know what the public wants. So does that mean I can talk about Sony and Microsoft and their past failures to try to prove that the PS3 & 360 will ultimately fail?"
Good logic Todd except without any substantial information to go on, then Nintendo's recent history is the easiest point of reference when trying to predict the fate of the Revolution. I'm also curious as to what past failures of Sony's and Microsoft's you yourself would reference, given Sony hasn't put a foot wrong (depending on whether or not you're including the PSP) and Microsoft only has one generation of console hardware to evaluate. Sega's console history would be a far more relevant comparison and they don't even have an active console.
It would be far more interesting and beneficial if Nintendo fans bothered arguing the points I raised earlier about their marketing failures, rather than ignoring them in favour of getting defensive and crying.
And sure, the lack of substantial information on the Revolution makes pretty much every post in this thread, including mine, little more than pie in the sky conjecture, especially when we all start grasping history and wielding those facts to make our point. But hey, isn't that what makes these discussions so much fun? LOLOLZORS!!one1!wink!!1
pr0cs @ Mar 9th 2006 11:34AM
"we have seen it and your acting like you havn't. We are acting like gamers and getting excited over the controller"
You've seen the revolution in action? Youve seen tech demos and actual games developed for the controller? If so please point me to some articles online because I must have missed them.
Duane Cunningham @ Mar 9th 2006 11:40AM
I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, but I am currently more excited about the Rev than anything else in the next generation.
Buying a PS3 or 360 and playing another Splinter Cell with prettier graphics, another Halo, another PGR? That sounds alright, I guess.
Nintendo, on the other hand, is coming out with something so new that completely new genres of games HAVE to be created for it. Why the hell wouldn't I be excited about that?
Doom3 @ Mar 9th 2006 12:27PM
LOL Don't let me set you up like that man...LOL
We have seen it and your acting like you havn't. We are acting like gamers and getting excited over the controller. The it is the controller man now go take your ADD meds. After that...
Go to http://www.gyration.com/en-US and buy your self a gyro mouse... Check out the very short metroid 3 glimpse any where on the net. Realize what artx and ati are good at. If you can't see whats possible then I'm not going to bother holding your hand just sit tight and wait you'll see. How about you build your own hype instead of getting feed like a friggin robot... Go read some thing other than a "news" sight... Check out Octopiler's white paper. Yeah I'm still a cell fan... But things are not looking good for the team.
I mean do you really care about tech demos? Really a tech demo? LOL it's funny just go to ati's web site if you want a tech demo... really. If you really need proof then go any get a Ds and some games...LOL.
Your still acting like a developer Pr0c. If so go and get a rev kit for about 2,000 dollars and tell me it ain't tight. Tell me you couldn't make a better rpg, fps or plain ol rev game with new game play. If you need that much assureance to get excited over the controller then get a dev kit. Hell If you remember this controller almost came out for the cube. I'm not going to dig it up for you but do a shearch and you'll see nintendo was planning a add on that was going to boost GC sales. Multiple the specs of a GC and realizes your looking a xbox 360/ps3 graphic contender dead in the face. That what sub d polys are for, and what normal maps was made to fake. Hell go and DL zbrush... go thur the normal mapping tut and tell me your not a believer... Oh you have not artistic skills then go to Ut tech page... The same stuff is being used there.
You see I'm not worried about the games developed for the controller I'm excited about the ideas that could be done with such a controller. I mean what is really going to be done on the Ps3 thats not going to be done on the xbo360 or the rev... Where talking graphics tech right now? Really man. I like the game industry and I'm just a fan of it wishing they would start the magic all over again. If you have no idea of game design then I understand why you can not see what every one else is excited about. Go to a GDC, or DICE one time and see what people are preaching about... Then go to siggraph this aug to see what computer graphics can really do and what it can do in real time. Then you'll find your tech demo. Then wait till e3 to see those same tech demos...LOL I'm just waiting on the fun ya know... Don't get mad at that...LOL You know it's coming.... I don't know about you but I love my pc mouse and nostromo setup man.... The rev controller is the next best thing to me and alot of others.
I'm not excited for you man....LOL I'm excited for the gamers like me... Not even nintendo fans. If you don't understand that then cool your not like me And it seems to be alot of people like me popping up latly. You know a gamer... The type you would see at an arcade. Maybe a few of them can make me some games worth playing ya know?
If you can't see why where so excited let me give you some advice.... save your money up... and watch the fun happen ok... ethier way we'll all end up with two systems or ethier one and alot of cool games...
The only thing I want to predict is that the controller is a cool concept...LOL
that guy @ Mar 9th 2006 1:40PM
I love the guy up there dissing Nintendo for not showing any Rev. games, and praising the PS3, then also saying right after that that it's 'about the games' - which Sony has shown none of for PS3 (other than some steroid-induced CG movies - big deal).
I love how if you get excited for a Nintendo product, you're a sad, pathetic Nintendo Fanboy, but anything else you're exempt from being called the same thing. I can't wait to pre-order a Revolution because I'm excited for it. Therefore I'm a fanboy. Yet the five or six of my buddies who pre-ordered a 360 weren't Microsoft fanboys at all. Whatever.
Last - I don't know how any true gamer can't at least be INTRIGUED by the Revolution. Yes, Nintendo is my 'favourite' company if you want to put it in that context, but if I had all the money in the world, I'd buy a PS3 in a second, simply because they have games I won't find on a Revolution or 360. It's pretty ridiculous that these 'fans' of games are willing to insult another system simply because they want their system of choice to be 'the best.'
C-Dub @ Mar 9th 2006 2:05PM
Two words: Lighsaber Duel
With that - a good game from LucasArts - the cat's in the bag (and those hotcakes are selling) and the GameCube will be water under the bridge.
FSK405K @ Mar 9th 2006 2:40PM
>People are already freaking out with excitement and
>they haven't seen a single game for it yet.
Yes they have, and that's why Revolution is so exciting: Contra, Final Fantasy, Tecmo Bowl, Dragon Warrior IV, ...
Facts @ Mar 9th 2006 2:42PM
facts:
Matt from IGN is chief editor of IGN, he's in charge of ALL of the other editors including the PS3 and 360 guys. He might choose to do Nintendo but supporting Nintendo is a choice he makes, not something he does to make money. If he wanted to, he could be the 360 editor.
Gamecube outsold the xbox360 and xbox this past november and december
Nintendo turns profit from the gamecube hardware, sony and microsoft turn negative profit
Nongamers are actually interested in the idea of the revolution, the blue ocean is a gimmick-try showing and explaining the revolution to your closest nongamer. Then show them the 360/ps3 and see which one they seem more interested in. Time magazine even named it as one of the top 5 coolest inventions last year along with an oil that doesnt soak into food and a jet plane that uses only 1/3 the fuel.
Nintendo wifi will probably be free-"all access gaming" and ds system model, there is no way sony's offering will be free and the 360 already costs money
Microsoft has failed in Japan and follow up interest has dwindled to paltry levels for potential consumers here in the us. 360s are sitting in the shelves of many many suppliers here in the US now. Maybe if some must have games are released that have wide appeal(think sims or wow) then it will move some more systems, but the only games coming out are fanbase games like Gears of War, ect. While they may be good games they don't have broad appeal.
The ps3 has run into trouble with development to the tune of blue ray liscensing issues
Seasoned gamers are very interested in the idea of the revolution's controllers, we've been around and seen the same old games forever. I'm more likely to boot up daggerfall than morowind because daggerfall was actually a deeper game(dagger fall is the prequel to morrowind). I'm more likely to boot up baldur's gate two before I'll boot up dark alliance two. I buy less and less games as time goes on because they have become shallow experiences, the revolution promises completely new genres and new gaming experiences. This is something that the last generation has struggled to do. Adding high definition to the last generation isn't going to make it any easier.
Most people don't know this but it takes exponentially more horsepower to run a game in high definition. You are talking way more than 8 times the resources to run a game in 1024 as opposed to 480. What this means is that the revolution, by opting out on high definition, can actually run more complex code with much less horsepower. Given what we assume to be true, that the revolution is 2-3 times more powerful than the gamecube, then we can assume that any game running on the 360 or ps3 in high definition will actually have an easier time running on the revolution due to lower resource requirementss of standard and enhanced definition gaming.
What is ultimately the saddest thing about the high definition gaming is that we still can't take advantage of standard definition, all you are getting with high definition is more pixels that aren't being used but still being drawn and colored. We still do not have photo realistic graphics, not even close. That kind of stuff can be done in standard definition, you know, like tv! Instead of pushing those pipelines towards realism, sony and microsoft have decided it was more important to use them to fill up extra unused pixels in order to create a sharper image instead of a more realistic image. Computers have had high definition gaming for years upon years now and still are not taking advantage of it for anything other than sharpness. You aren't getting a dvd quality image, you are getting a straighter line, that's it.
Most gamers here are one console gamers, I am not. I had all three last generation, I'll have all three eventually this generation. And I'm an avid pc-gamer to boot. But the fact is that the only system that is offering anything new is the revolution. Right now my priorities for game purchases this year(not countng handhelds) will be revolution>PC>PS3>360. And the 360 is the first major console I have considered not buying since the phillips CD-i, it's like PC-lite. To a real "hardcore" gamer, the 360 is a kid's machine offering no alternatives or unique experiences. Just a mainstream box that might have a few mediocre exclusives. But they'll only be considered exclusive if they didn't make enough money to warrant a port to a PC. And don't give me that crap about how it's cheaper than a PC either, because it's not. 360 system= 400 bucks, live subscription = 240+ bucks for console lifespan, extra controllers 30-60 bucks a pop, games +5-10 bucks for pc equivalent. I could buy a motherboard and two sli video cards along with another gig of ram before I've even bought my first game. And there are a beacoup of other problems that I won't get into, suffice it to say, I wouldn't shed a tear if there was no xbox666.
syxx @ Mar 9th 2006 3:58PM
Jipped
"Good logic Todd except without any substantial information to go on, then Nintendo's recent history is the easiest point of reference when trying to predict the fate of the Revolution"
I agree let us look at Nintendo's recent history vs the others.
1. They sold 20 million consoles. Microsoft shipped 22 million. Im sure u know the difference between sold and shipped.
2. Nintendo Wifi has been up for about 5 to 6 months and has crossed the million mark with 4 games. Microsoft Live has been out since 2002 and they are less than 3 million (as far as i know) with about 100 games.
3. Nintendo made a profit on the cube. Microsoft lost 4 billion. Sony just started making a profit last year after it being out for 4 or 5.
4.The gamecube was smaller than the ps2 and xbox and still looked better than the PS2. And as for raw power (which seems to be the big thing now), it was more powerful than the ps2. 350mhz to 485mhz.
Yeah based on nintendos recent history im really worried for them.
It seems to be the "thing" now to hate on nintendo and to show any support for them means that you are a lonely fanboy who cant open their eyes, which is sad.
Merus @ Mar 10th 2006 12:13AM
I'm reminded of the findings of the Experimental Gaming Project, who discovered that games with better graphics and a strong theme were more fun than those that didn't, even when those other games had better mechanics.
A thought.
Doom3 @ Mar 10th 2006 10:26AM
Merus are you retarded? It was about games man!
Even they said
"Heavy Theming Will Not Salvage Bad Design (or "You Can't Polish a Turd")"
But art does matter... that builds the connecton in so may different ways.
The best thing you should take away from this is Build the Toy First... which is why nintendo is so successful and why every one claims they make toys because you know you want to play with them.
"Start with the core mechanic. Whether spring systems, swarm behavior, gravity, etc, it never took more than a few hours to get the basic theme up and running. This toy should be the core mechanic of the game minus any goals or decisions. There is no win or lose state, just a fun thing to play with."
Complexity is Not Necessary for Fun (actually slows down game creation)
If mankind can entertain itself for literally thousands of years with variations on the theme of ball and a flat surface, we might be trying too hard with some of this new-fangled video game stuff. It's entirely possible to have fun with basic primitives, think Tetris, Pac-Man, and any classic arcade game. Like the Romeo and Juliet love story archetype, these games had mechanics so good we're still reusing them again and again decades later. Lens flares, bump mapping, camera bloom, and other amazing new technologies are nice, but won't make your game more fun. Prove to yourself that your core mechanic is worthwhile with a simple prototype. Once you're convinced, then you can make it pretty.
Create a Sense of Ownership to Keep 'em Crawling Back for More
We discovered quite accidentally that the games with the greatest replay value were the ones that had some sort of creation or customization aspect. For instance, make a creepy tree out of hands and umbrellas, or draw your own house, or build your own tower, or evolve your own race of mutated creatures. Apparently this is a well-known phenomenon and has something to do with all those create-a-face features common in many recent games, and customizable cell-phone ring tones, and those be different, express yourself like everyone else advertising campaigns. So jump on the bandwagon! Create a sense of ownership to keep em crawling back for more.
Build Toward a Well Defined Goal
A well defined goal was embarrassingly easy to forget about. Without a gameplay goal, a prototype is just a toy not a game. For some reason, people seem to enjoy having the opportunity to fail. A goal can be anything like collect x number widgets in a x amount of time, or keep the system stable, or traverse a space without touching anything bad, but it was difficult finding a goal that didn't feel a little tacked on, (like anything involving a time limit). The best goals, we found, were an innate part of the gameplay like in "Tower of Goo," where the implicit goal was to simply build up.
And my favorite quote
[Make it Juicy!]
[Juice was our wet little term for constant and bountiful user feedback. A juicy game element will bounce and wiggle and squirt and make a little noise when you touch it. A juicy game feels alive and responds to everything you do tons of cascading action and response for minimal user input. It makes the player feel powerful and in control of the world, and it coaches them through the rules of the game by constantly letting them know on a per-interaction basis how they are doing.
Some juicy examples you may have experienced might include:
* Alien Hominid enemies exploding and flinging blood to an almost unjustified extent
* Mario Bros. bouncing through a room full of coins, blinging with satisfaction
* Pachinko - a never-ending gush of balls all under your control
* Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo animation and sprites abound on multiple chains ]
I'm sorry if I offened you Merus but how da hell did you get better graphics and strong theme were more fun than those that didn't(have them), even when those others games had better mechanics?
Go read what they though it's so on point it wouldmake you buy *them* a rev dev kit.
Here ya go
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051026/gabler_01.shtml
Games are toys we like to play with... You get a kid and watch they can't play with spawn toys better than gi joes...LOL Cuz they have too much theme and better art direction thus they are statues. You look and don't touch just like when you look at real art.
If you've played their game I believe you are attached to the emotional value of the game rather than the game. While that is a draw to a game does it really hold you as long as a good mechanic or game play?
Jim @ Mar 10th 2006 3:56PM
gameplay > graphics
just as NDS > PSP proofs.