First shot of Factor 5's Lair for PS3! [Update 1]
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Mar 27th 2006 at 6:25PM }
This image, reportedly of Factor 5's upcoming PS3 title Lair, recently surfaced on the Internet. Aside from a short trailer on display at TGS last year, little has been seen of Lair, which focuses on dragon combat. If this is an in-game shot, which the visible HUD-like information (action icon, life bar) seems to indicate, than Lair is shaping up to be a visual masterpiece. But given the current track record of pre-release PS3 media, we're not gonna jump on the bandwagon — just yet.
UPDATE: added link to high-res image.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
GhostDragon @ Mar 27th 2006 6:37PM
If Kudo Sunoda (sp?) spent his energy on dragons instead of boxers, I think we'd be playing this on the 360. It looks great, but nothing that we won't see on the new Xbox. Long live Microsoft! Down with Sony!
bv @ Mar 27th 2006 6:41PM
I uploaded a bigger version of the pic here:
http://i1.tinypic.com/sebs7t.jpg
...and yes it looks freakin' awesome.
InvadErGII @ Mar 27th 2006 6:43PM
This is absolutely fake.
If the HUD is in place like that, the game would have to be near completion, which it definitely wouldn't be at this point. The HUD itself doesn't look particularly believable either, especially since it appears to be based around a D-Pad, and there appears to be ONE button for 'attacking dragons'.
Perhaps most importantly, I've yet to see anything that makes me believe that the PS3 is capable of anything near that caliber.
jay @ Mar 27th 2006 6:46PM
God I love Factor 5. I was there in the beginning with them. Back with Turrican, R-Type and the Great Giana Sisters on the Amiga in the 80's. Then I was on Rogue Squadron on the Gamecube.
They have, frankly, the best game musician ever in their lovely little team.
Good company. The only PS3 game that has my attention right now. It looks bloody beautiful. I hope it works. From the screenshot's HUD it looks like Rogue Leader with dragons. hmm. I'd like something different myself. but meh :)
rico @ Mar 27th 2006 6:47PM
I sense that this is going to start another war of words between sony and xbox fanboys
Rare Hare @ Mar 27th 2006 6:56PM
WOW. that looks nothing short of incredible..
apoc06 @ Mar 27th 2006 6:58PM
not bad. looks pretty reasonable as a leaked screenshot. the original size of the shot is 960x540 which is half of the p3 native 1080p. [and the output of AACS when not connected to HDCP equipment and the ICT flag is set.] now if only someone could leak some ps3 gameplay videos.
Mike Jones @ Mar 27th 2006 7:01PM
"I sense that this is going to start another war of words between sony and xbox fanboys"
Ya think? Anyway, I can't wait for all the "meh" comments because I know all of us are playing lots of games that look like that.
boots (former bd) @ Mar 27th 2006 7:02PM
Finally a game that doesn't look 360-ish. Let's hope gameplay isn't 360-ish either.
bandit @ Mar 27th 2006 7:03PM
let me just cut this off before it even begins.
Yes this can very well be In-game. BOTH 360 and PS3 games will eventually look like this. Gears of War anyone? anyway the point is using PS3.0 NO not PS3 Pixel Shader 3.0 and the programmable shader units on the RSX its relativily simple to get these types of graphics out of the PS3, as it is simply a nvidia chipset. almost literally off the shelf. The 360 gpu by contrast forces a slightly new method of graphically programming which is actually EASIER however as a consequence existing code built around tradition gpus will not see the performance increases due to the variation in chipset architecture unless the rendering engine is built around the 360 gpu.
So then fanboys will ask, why do they claim cell is harder to program for? because it is CELL is NOT the GPU. The GPU is almost exactly like PC gpu, thus existing graphics engines, NOT neccessarily gameplay, AI, or physics engine will translate easily over to the PS3 gpu.
zenprism @ Mar 27th 2006 7:10PM
Is this like EA's "target renders" of what the games would actually look like in ten years time?
Arch @ Mar 27th 2006 7:14PM
HELLO, looks nothing like the trailer we saw, game!
well done sony. another underwhelming shot of your game. LONG LIVE THE HYPE! (not that it doesnt look good, because it does, but compaired to the trailer we saw..............um no.)
http://www.igda.org/sf/0510.htm
and look at this that just popped out.
"of up to several million polygons for its hero dragons. "
which we know was toned down to 170k polys. JUST for the hero dragon. what happened to 170k polys for all the thousands of them sony?!
i did mention that it looks good.
Not U @ Mar 27th 2006 7:31PM
It's going to be funny in a month and a half after E3. Everyone one will be talking about PS3 and Revolution while 360 fans cling to some new Bungie game announcement. Yeah the systems are probably very similar in specs....too bad Sony has the most industry support which ='s Better games AND better graphics this time around, quite possible a comprable online (not better than live). Checkmate.
Einhanderkiller @ Mar 27th 2006 7:40PM
@ #10:
Perhaps that was an "over-estimate"? :)
Maybe they were talking about the next-next-generation.
The screenshot still looks really good, though. Probably the best I've seen so far. The skin looks really organic, unlike Unreal Engine 3.
Mike @ Mar 27th 2006 7:52PM
Pre-render at best... move along...
Reaktorleak89 @ Mar 27th 2006 7:52PM
Actually, they said that the source models were several million polygons, and then they used those as normal maps for the in-game models, which are composed of between 100~170 thousand polygons. Gears of War, for example, only uses 10,000 polygons for its characters (enhanced with normal maps of course).
Though the dragon looks better than what I saw at TGS (design and color wise), I am wondering where all the high quality effects like rain on the skin and Bloom lighting went...Hopefully they'll step up the graphics for E3.
MarkFitz @ Mar 27th 2006 7:52PM
There's a 1280x720px version at IGN.
MarkFitz @ Mar 27th 2006 7:54PM
Dang comment didn't take my link tag. Here you go: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761161/img_3488252.html
SilverScyth @ Mar 27th 2006 8:12PM
Looks nice, but Gears of War and others have proved thes same thing can be done on the 360.
DIE FANBOYS!
guy @ Mar 27th 2006 8:15PM
guys the reason this doesn't look like the tralier is because yhe dragon inthe trailer was wet. this one, obviously is dry.
Arch @ Mar 27th 2006 8:18PM
ahahaha @ #17!!
besides project offset looks leagues better and is on both.
quietSui @ Mar 27th 2006 8:55PM
#3- Looks like you have control of a squad a la Rogue Leader or Ghost Recon, judging by that HUD. UP for Form, DOWN for FLEE, RIGHT for Attack, etc.
I know nothing about this game- but this looks amazing, and seems well within reason for both consoles.
Besides just polygon count, gives a great glimpse into the art direction of the game, which looks very cool indeed.
Whether its Gears of War, MGS4, Too Human or Lair... I just really wanna play something that looks like that, you know??
Leaving behind all of the console war crap, I'd say 2007 is going to be a breakthrough year for this industry.
I can't wait.
Jeremy Wright @ Mar 27th 2006 9:00PM
I'm a happy 360 fanboy, but c'mon, this is a great screen. No we don't know if it's real. Yes the D-Pad controls look stupid (but maybe it's for squad direction, a la Blazing Angels?). But hey, if it's actually IN GAME this is awesome.
Sure there's a time to be cynical, but no matter what platform this game is for, seeing this as a possibility is always fun.
Yes, I'm in a forgiving mood today. Sony's been pretty realistic this week after all ;-)
FLCLjazz @ Mar 27th 2006 9:07PM
if any of yyou played rogue squadron you would know that this is the kinda control they use for squad commands.
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/698/698558/lair-screen-20060327004958573.jpg
in that pic you can clearly see the polygons as well as where the UV map splits There is also no perfect AA.
This is probably real, factor 5 is one of the best devs out there.
And to numbah 20 i think project offset is only coming out for PC(for now)
Rog27 @ Mar 27th 2006 9:14PM
To everyone second-guessing the validity of this framebuffer grab, check out the Factor 5 powerpoint presentation it comes from. This Ppt presentation was shown to developers by Factor 5 and was never meant to be seen by the public. Developers don't show other developers prerendered footage. The original capture was at 1280 x 1024 (720p), by the way.
https://www.cmpevents.com/sessions/GD/S1609i1.ppt
frank @ Mar 27th 2006 9:31PM
this is not gameplay. To make a game this nice, would cost more than they could ever make by selling it. hype hype hype
ozymandias @ Mar 27th 2006 9:44PM
Well as a 360 fanboy I have to say that the screen is impressive. Big ups to the ps3. however after spending 10 hours with oblivion I have to say that a lot of the creatures in the game look that good. But what is really impressive to me is the shadowing. notice how everything cast its own shadow. thats extremely cool.
Zanch @ Mar 27th 2006 9:53PM
Though that may not be a shot of someone actually playing the game, that level of quality IS attainanle, and here's why: Think about it...the only things on screen are likely to be dragons and sky. With minimal geography to deal with, Factor 5 can make the dragon models as high-poly and high-res as they like. So the game may in fact look this good, but it wouldn't if the game took place on the ground instead of in the air.
FLCLjazz @ Mar 27th 2006 9:59PM
dont doubt factor 5, they are an amazing devoloper and can suprise most anybody with it. I wouldnt be suprised if you could land on the round or atleast go near it. Factor 5 can probabky tap the ps3 before anyone else.
Enigma @ Mar 27th 2006 10:11PM
After seeing screenshots of GoW, you fanboys actually doubt this as being real?
Man, get over yourselves.
It looks just as good as Gears of War. Less shiny, but that is about it. The only thing over-hyped is your blind hatred of company A versus company B.
sony4ever @ Mar 27th 2006 10:19PM
allu xbox fanboys should just admit defeat...the ps3 will own the xbox 360 and the revolution......and in my opinion the revolutiion will be better than 360 long live sony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
slow news day @ Mar 27th 2006 10:34PM
I have to admit, the picture is stunning. But I have some doubts whether or not it's from actual game play.
Anyone catch this other PS3 tech demo? After the duck demo mind you. It's not anywhere near what we're seeing for Lair, although this is JUST a demo.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_rVC0W8CSuc&search=gdc
slow news day @ Mar 27th 2006 10:56PM
I knew I had seen the Lair demo somewhere. Here's footage from last year
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvKfOS_VHX8
Enigma @ Mar 28th 2006 12:01AM
The "duck demo" is just to show off hundreds and thousands of things having their own "physical" properties. They are not to display graphics.
Debikul @ Mar 28th 2006 12:12AM
Please note that "in-game footage" does not mean "actual gameplay" which means that it could very well be pre-rendered.
But on the other hand I'm going to laugh when you guys get your PS3 and find out that anything it can do besides play a Blu Ray movie can be done on the 360 and by god, probabably the Rev.
And when a game doesn't look so great you always find an excuse as to why it looks like crap on your precious console of choice while you stand behind anything that looks uber cool while you don't even know for yourself if it's real or not. You all just piss me off.
Enjoy your pre-rendered movies and screenshots because when the PS3 comes out it's all going to be a Sony fanboys broken dream.
WyattERP @ Mar 28th 2006 12:20AM
Looks pretty good...completely probable. Kind of looks like something from out of Oblivion on my 360 :)
Seriously...there is no need to keep waiting...grab Oblivion...sim..ply...incredible!
Zero_ @ Mar 28th 2006 12:54AM
This is definetly not pre-rendered and how have I come to that conclusion?
1. Like someone mentioned previously, this was shown from Factor 5's Presentation at GDC. The GDC is not open to the public. Game Developers do not show pre-rendered footage to other game develops. It would not make sense.
2. Look at IGN's version of the image at a full, I think it was 720p or 1080p. You can see alot of jagged edges. Either the folks forgot how to anti-alias, or it is indeed graphics from the game.
3. The images has a HUD. Some sort of D-PAD movement and a "Stamina" bar. Looking back at history, and especially E3 2005, there is no pre-rendered footage with a HUD to give the illusion of gameplay. (Even I think Killzone was faked, but that had no HUD).
And whilst I am here, Debikul. You seem to emphasize the point that graphics is the major point in gaming. You do realise that the Playstation 2 was far inferior than it's competitors in terms of processing power? And you do realise that it was the most popular platform? Also, you do realise that Geometry Wars, the $4 killer-app on the 360 is not as graphic intense as Kameo but is much more popular?
I re-itterate; this screenshot looks fantastic, this screenshot is real, graphics of a game does not affect the gameplay whatsoever.
slow news day @ Mar 28th 2006 1:41AM
Enigma on the tech demo, wait until after the duck demo to see what I was talking about. There's a couple of more animations we haven't seen previously that were shown at GDC 2006. The water and fish at the end is impressive, but the FPS demo was a little ho-hum in my opinion. What's really interesting is you get to watch someone using the PS3 hands on!
Regarding Lair, I think it's going to be a great game and the graphics have the potential to be really stunning. Let's hope this is gameplay.
The closest game you can compare it with on the 360 would be Project Offset (working title) that also featured an impressive looking dragon in their GDC presentation. If I'm not mistaken IGN has demos if anyone's interested.
phez @ Mar 28th 2006 1:42AM
originality is lost amongst developers, especially here in north america.
i applaud factor 5 for this work of art, and for breaking away from the norm.
ps, this looks entirely do-able in game, atleast, from what i've seen is possible on the 360. as for those trailers from last year... ;|
jay @ Mar 28th 2006 6:29AM
Phez; Factor 5 was born in Germany with about 5 or so folk, then moved to America with the N64's birth. One of the reasons I like them is they have pretty much 1 person from each continent on earth now. Very diverse. thats why I think they come out with decent games. they weren't all brought up with western attitudes and beliefs. hence why their games kicked arse. I mean Turrican was miles better than Metroid. If anyone played it, NOT the bloody console version. They were turds compared to PC/Amiga/Spectrum versions. yea.
RTi @ Mar 28th 2006 9:19AM
Well.. if it turns out that the PS3 can run games that look like this (and at a decent framerate), then obviously I'll be selling my 360 along with Oblivion.
WER @ Mar 28th 2006 9:51AM
As an original XBox fan, and one who's currently sitting on the fence about the 360 (due to lack of impressive games), all I'm saying is that I'm going to wait until we see PS3 games in action.
So far the 360 hasn't impressed at all, and maybe that will be the case with PS3, but screenshots like this at least give me some hope for this 'next generation.'
shivr @ Mar 28th 2006 10:14AM
looks pretty, can't say I like the art style though... dragon designs remind me too much of that US Godzilla movie from like 1998 or whatever http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/viihde/leffasivujen_kuvat/12772.jpg :/
Fenris @ Mar 28th 2006 10:19AM
This does look very good. I do think that is is a pre-render, not that great visuals are not possible, but look at the perspective of the shot. Straight on. Unless you have a controllable camera how would you be in this perspective. Even in 3rd person games you still have a view from behind. I think that this is probably a pre-render running in-engine, but not actual game play. Like I said earlier great graphics are possible on the new systems just something about this shot does not say gameplay.
Dave @ Mar 28th 2006 11:59AM
I don't understand why people think that this screenshot is pre-rendered or overly impressive. It looks great, and like something that I would expect from the PS3 or 360. In fact, this screen looks exactly like many of the shots we've seen of Gears Of War, minus any environment. Coming at it from that context, this screen is entirely plausible and not terribly impressive. Now, throw that dragon into a sceen with a dozen or so enemies, some environments, and fancy lightly/weather effects, then it would be impressive.
ozymandias @ Mar 28th 2006 12:03PM
I saw someone post that company behind this game is factor 5. arent they useing the offset engine. if so then this is definatly real and will be offsets first run. Cant wait to see someone do a 360 project with this engine.
barry @ Mar 28th 2006 12:06PM
That is most likely an in-game screenshot. I saw their presentation at this years GDC and the dude actually played a short flying portion of the game, and it looked that good. They also showed about 3 or 4 of the dragon models in softimage, both super highpoly, and the reduced ingame model, and both looked amazing. The game basically looks like rogue squadron with dragons... Also remember, it is a screenshot, and the camera is likely framed up specifically for that shot, or maybe even for a cinematic. So naturally, it is going to look a lot better and more dramatic than a simple screen grab of a dragon flying in the middle of the screen. And of course, they dont have a lot of environment to deal with...
FLCLjazz @ Mar 28th 2006 4:05PM
@ dave
if you have seen the realtime demo(confirmed as they moved the camera around during the scene) they had hundreds of dragons on screen at once with rain volumetric clouds etc.
This game is gonna look fantastic
Chris @ Mar 28th 2006 5:59PM
To the very first comment - Kudo Tsunada HAS focused on Dragons before - he was the producer on that great 3DO Dragon Rage game. :P
Great meaning - steaming pile of cr*p.
He got his chance at dragons and missed.
As to Factor 5's dragons... They had a recruiting booth on the expo hall floor and a tv running a looped recording of Lair footage, so there was more impressive footage to be found at GDC for those that looked...
slow news day @ Mar 28th 2006 10:16PM
Regarding the Offset engine, you might be confusing Factor 5 with Red 5. Red 5 is the new independant developer culminated from those who worked on World of Warcraft, among others. They're creating a new MMO using the Offset engine.
Factor 5 on the otherhand, previously developed games exclusively for Nintendo and is now branching out to the PS3 with Lair. They're notable for making the Star Wars: Rogue Squadron series.