Games that defined Sega Dreamcast

Skies of Arcadia was hands down the best RPG I've ever played. Loved it!

#33 Man you beat me to it but sad to say when I bought MSR the store manager told me I besides himself were the only people who bought it but i digress I spent many days playing Powerstone, Crazy Taxi, Jet Grind Radio,ETC I still own and play SFIII 3rd Strike*, MvC2*
CapvSNK* Guilty Gear X* and Project Justice *means its an impoort another reason DC rocks now if I can just find an Vampire Chronicle for Matching services my plans for world domination would be complete

To #13: Sorry, I'm going to have to argue with this. Sony wasn't taking the industry anywhere with the PS2; they continually abandoned promised features, and never really improved the console. The PSX was good, but the PS2 is a horrible console that just got lucky with some exclusives.

"MS DID NOT make the industry grow at all."

Yes they did. Unlike Sony, they actually brought online multiplayer (for consoles) to a fun and usable level. Sega and Nintendo weren't able to do that either.

Halo, Fable (not on the PC yet), Ninja Gaiden, and Jade Empire are all great Xbox exclusives. As far as games available for the other consoles, that doesn't matter. They are better on the Xbox 90% of the time. And *GASP* you can play them in 720p.

Microsoft brought us what Sony promised but never delivered. Good online gaming, good graphics, and a WORTHWHILE HARD DRIVE.

"Right off the bat, Nintendo HAS, Mario, Zelda, Metroid"

Metroid is the only reason I bought a Gamecube. RE4 and Mario Kart are good too, but the console lacks anything special other than a handful of titles. But those titles have longevity.

"Sony has FF, Killzone(ok maybe not that game) Kingdom Hearts, Socom, Metal Gear( ok maybe not exclusive), Xenosaga, Gran Turismo, God of War..."

Killzone, Socom, and Metal Gear aren't really that great. Metal Gear was great on NES, but the Solid series just isn't as interesting as Splinter Cell in my opinion (kill aligators and robots all you want; I'd rather infiltrate a nuclear base). Killzone was a sad attempt to compete with Halo, and Socom just doesn't play that well. The AI is ridiculously bad.

FF and Xenosaga are good. To me, the PS2 is only good for RPGs. The graphics are generally pretty crappy for any other genres on the system (when compared to the other consoles). Before you start saying Shadow of the Colossus! Resident Evil 2! God of War! for graphics...the graphics are in a low resolution, so if you don't use a non-flat CRT with composite connections, the jaggies are out of control. That problem doesn't exist on the Gamecube and the Hi-Def supporting Xbox.

God of War is good, but Ninja Gaiden plays better in my opinion. And it doesn't need gratuitous gore; the game works without the blood front. The combo system is more usable, the weapon selection is more useful, and the game actually takes some skill.

"ask yourself this: IF Metroid had the multiplayer aspect that halo has, then NO ONE would even have looked at Halo."

I've always wanted MP online multiplayer. We've got online multiplayer for Metroid Prime now with the DS. I still play Halo 2 more. If MP2's multiplayer was online, then I would play it a lot, but it's not as versatile as Halo 2's multiplayer (with MP2, it's more lock-on and less aiming and grenading, less weapon selection, and less maps).

Anyway, Sega always seemed to provide the more "mature" consoles. Less kiddie games than Nintendo. The games also seemed to be of better quality than the other consoles. I was sad to see them fail. Microsoft made a good replacement in my opinion.

Personally, I blame Sony for holding the industry back. They got way too comfortable being on top, so they are just meandering along with their featureless, poorly powered console until they can provide an overfeatured and overpriced console (wait...the PS3 is a "lifestyle server" not a game machine...or was it a "supercomputer"....talk about identity crisis). At least Nintendo and Microsoft still stick with what is important: gaming.

I don't get people who complain about their broken consoles. I've been a gamer for over 10 years and never did any of my consoles break. The so-often-cursed "release PS2" works as if it was taken right out of the box, my DC has been working for even longer, even though it has to swallow the occasional 8x CD-R, which supposedly can damage the laser unit, none of this ever happened, not to mention any of my Nin' consoles, but that goes without saying, cause Nintendo's stuff never breaks (hey, it's made for children afterall :P), but I'm knocking on wood here chances are I was just lucky.
I'm with phibscube on Rez. Although you missed that Rez was released in Japan, where epobir's "general PS2 owner" logic doesn't apply in the first place. Even Space Channel 5- another great unconventional Mizuguchi title- was released on PS2 there. Both look better on DC of course. Sure, epobir's right on that GC and XBox are more powerful than PS2, which in turn is stronger than DC. That reminds me of a discussion I led the other day, where some friends tried to convince me why Forza is more beautiful than GT4 (I still think GT4 is the much better looking and playing game), throwing termini technici at me and pointing out GT's "picture" backgrounds as cons. So what? I don't think gfx looks better just because of the fact that there are more advanced calculations and chip architecture behind. If the content is appealing- and only then, to avoid superficialness- I'd choose the better looking game over the "technically sophisticated" any day.

Jet Set Radioooooooooo!

Holy God did I love that game. It works great (aside from the tag editor) in DC emulators too!

#41 all systems have thier share of crappy games, most games that come out are crappy thats why good games stand out. Nobody said the DreamCast never had bad games.

And people just dont remeber that the Dreamcast was the #1 system when it died. Sega did indeed run out of money because of past mistakes and where trying to find someone to save the system. They even opened the chipset to outside companies and only one small Korean company bit. The biggest stab in the back came from Microsoft who helped develope the DC(it ran on windows ce)only to take what they learned and create the Xbox a suped up DC.

Of course, all systems have their bombs. It's just that in the mind of many people I know, the DC is defined by those. This is compounded by the fact that most of the DC's good games were later rereleased elsewhere.

It might not be fair, but it's true.

Suicide Ninja:

"PS2 is a horrible console"

I'm sick of your anti-PS2 crap. PS2 graphics are very similar to that of Gamecube and Xbox. You can't ask for a lot more on a year older system. When PS2 first came out, I had never seen something better looking and sounding than "Kessen", and when FFX came out, at first it was hard for me to distinguish between CGI FMV and in-game graphics. (Yes, at this point is much easier, but back then, having an untrained eye, I was amazed).

"PS2 got lucky with some exclusives"

I wouldn't call "lucky" having sold more than 100 million consoles. The reason they got not some, but most of the exclusives worth owning this generation, was because it was plain better than the Dreamcast: Backwards compatible and playing DVDs, enabling mass appeal, enabling a game development paradise not available on the NES, SNES or even PS1 eras.

"Microsoft brought us what Sony promised but never delivered. Good online gaming, good graphics, and a WORTHWHILE HARD DRIVE."

You can play online on the PS2. Yes, LIVE is better, but however you see it, more people played online on PS2. If it was so important last generation, Xbox would have beaten PS2 without lifting a finger. Oh, and the Hard Drive? Gimmick (for both systems). Unfortunately, it was used mostly to patch buggy or unfinished games like Halo 2 and Ninja Gaiden.
Ironically, what Microsoft brought to the industry was made optional for 360. Too bad.

"Killzone, Socom, and Metal Gear aren't really that great. Metal Gear was great on NES, but the Solid series just isn't as interesting as Splinter Cell in my opinion (kill aligators and robots all you want; I'd rather infiltrate a nuclear base). Killzone was a sad attempt to compete with Halo, and Socom just doesn't play that well. The AI is ridiculously bad."

Disregarding the fact that you are trying to pass your opinion as a fact, Metal Gear Solid was one of the most important titles for PS2, and in general, this generation. SOCOM is one of the most played online games this generation (or at least, for PS2). And please, now that we are passing opinion's as facts, Halo is utter crap. It is not an original game, and it doesn't have an original Storyline, where at least Killzone does.

"FF and Xenosaga are good. To me, the PS2 is only good for RPGs. The graphics are generally pretty crappy for any other genres on the system (when compared to the other consoles). Before you start saying Shadow of the Colossus! Resident Evil 2! God of War! for graphics...the graphics are in a low resolution, so if you don't use a non-flat CRT with composite connections, the jaggies are out of control. That problem doesn't exist on the Gamecube and the Hi-Def supporting Xbox."

Katamari Damacy is not an RPG. Guitar Hero is not an RPG. Tekken and Virtua Fighter aren't RPGs (save your "Dead or Alive" is better, because nobody else thinks so unless they love Xbox; which series is the most inconsequential of the three? Exactly). Oh, and did you forget about GT4 for PS2 supporting 1080i? Yes, you did. It doesn't matter if PS2 looks a little worse for RE4 if PS2 came out earlier and got most of the exclusives worth owning, let alone DVD playability (I still use it sometimes to play movies).

"God of War is good, but Ninja Gaiden plays better in my opinion. And it doesn't need gratuitous gore; the game works without the blood front. The combo system is more usable, the weapon selection is more useful, and the game actually takes some skill."

Ninja Gaiden blows. The camera makes the game not usable. Combo system? Or lack thereof? You just had to pretty much mash a bunch of buttons, and use the power gems of the death to blast combos up to the 50 level. Devil May Cry is ranked on a similar level as Ninja Gaiden, except DMC came out 2 years before. Oh, were you talking about that re-release called NGBlack? Thanks, but I'm not paying again for the same game with a few bonuses. In fact, for all those that bought the original Ninja Gaiden, they should feel raped by Tecmo (and Microsoft for allowing games to be patched constantly).

Storyline and characterwise, DMC and GoW are much more appealing to the general public than Ninja Gaiden - and even when Ninja Gaiden is (or was) a better known franchise, it sold a lot less than the first two.

"I've always wanted MP online multiplayer. We've got online multiplayer for Metroid Prime now with the DS. I still play Halo 2 more. If MP2's multiplayer was online, then I would play it a lot, but it's not as versatile as Halo 2's multiplayer (with MP2, it's more lock-on and less aiming and grenading, less weapon selection, and less maps)."

You mean, MP2 is not another generic FPS, as opposed to Halo? Come on. If that game was actually online, Halo 2 would have disappeared out of the map at worst, and sold half of what it did at best. And just as Sony was "lucky" this generation, Microsoft was "lucky" for all the money they have to implement LIVE for the most generic FPS of all time.

"Anyway, Sega always seemed to provide the more "mature" consoles. Less kiddie games than Nintendo. The games also seemed to be of better quality than the other consoles. I was sad to see them fail. Microsoft made a good replacement in my opinion."

I don't think Sega was too mature compared to Nintendo. Nintendo allowed blood after MK1 on their games, and had Killer Instinct as an exclusive.

Amd if you mean "good replacement" as in "another SEGA", then yes, but actually being good, that's yet to be seen, and last generation for them was awful.

"Personally, I blame Sony for holding the industry back. They got way too comfortable being on top, so they are just meandering along with their featureless, poorly powered console until they can provide an overfeatured and overpriced console (wait...the PS3 is a "lifestyle server" not a game machine...or was it a "supercomputer"....talk about identity crisis). At least Nintendo and Microsoft still stick with what is important: gaming."

Well, Microsoft had no choice, because Xbox 1 didn't seem to care much about gaming (lack of Japanese games). Nintendo has always cared about games. Sony cares about Media with having games as a killer app. And while Sony has been seating on its laurels, saying sony has advanced the industry into more mature levels is an understatement. Thanks to Sony, the Videogame industry is now bigger than hollywood (making it relatively more respected, and more open to investment; it is taken much more seriously). Thanks to Sony, games reached higher audiences at lower prices for developers, enabling the creation of truly epic games.

Microsoft only added LIVE to games, which wasn't that important as only 10% of Xbox players used it. Its good consequences, however, were that PS3 will incorporate a similar service.

@SuicideNinja! I agree that MS helped the industry grow but that is only due to the copmetition they present. That being said the few exclusive games for the xbox have been some of the greatest I have ever played in my life but to say that the shared titles are better on the xbox is just an opinion. I prefer the ps2's controller for most games.

Your complaint about the other games are still opinions and rather weak ones.

"God of War is good, but Ninja Gaiden plays better in my opinion. And it doesn't need gratuitous gore; the game works without the blood front. The combo system is more usable, the weapon selection is more useful, and the game actually takes some skill."

I love both games but your still comparing apple to oranges. The gameplay is a big part of it and so is the story. So IMHO God of War has a stronger storyline to go with its gameplay while NG has an "ok" story backed up by amazing gameplay. I won't even get into comparing Splinter Cell to MGS, to many strong feelings there.

As far as console gaming online... all you have is an FPS to show the greatness of a console being online? I would still rather play Fps's, offline or online, on my PC.

And I fully agree with phl0w! I just had the same discussion with a friend. The "fanboys" love to say how technical a game is while I the sheer fact is that GT 4 looks better. In scale and proportion it is just generally more visually appealing.

I love my Dreamcast... it has been reliable (dropped, landed on, thrown across the room yet still works almost 7 years later) and fun to play. It was a great blend of power and a small low weight package. Yes my Xbox and 360 are true powerhouse machines, but they also weigh enough to discourage portability. The powersupply on my 360 alone seems to bee the heaviest thing in my entertainment center (forgetting the television for a moment). Of current gen consoles (yes the DC was/would be in competition with the PS2, GC and Xbox) the DC could be considered comparable... no I don't think the DC could run HALO very well, but who knows maybe some guy has homebrewed it. Yes SEGA fans do exist, why? Because the DC was fun and a bit of an oddity. It was the first console to be hacked to run linux, it was the first console to support internet connections(USA) in a time where people were really starting to get online. It did have a broadband capability before it was finally shut down. You could buy an ethernet replacement for the built in modem, but this was during a time when HighSpeed connections were uncommon at best. The DC was shut down primarily under the PS2's DVD support and backward compatability, at the time the PS2 was a very reasonably priced DVD player and played games to boot. The funny thing is how people diss on the DC but the other companies are adopting many of it's features specifically the VMU (see GameBoy connection to GameCube) and online gaming (Xbox Live, whatever Sony is planning, GameCube's limited online play (at best)). Sony may have defeated SEGA's console, but that doesn't mean they won everyone's heart.

They seemed to have left out (what's in my opinion) the coolest games to ever be released to the dreamcast:

Seaman &
Rez

You can get rez (at regular price) again at gamequestdirect.com

i just ordered seaman, typing of the dead, and dynamite cop!!! i loved seaman back in the day, it was the craziest game ever. the only rpg's i've played to this day are PSO, grandia 2, and skies of arcadia. and im sure im not the only one pissed at the 2k series going away. did anyone play the gundam game for dreamcast?! that game was AMAZING, graphics and realism to the show blew me away! im pretty much done with my gamecube now, until the new zelda comes out, and xbox is pretty much done except for halo 2 on live. but my dreamcast....man....i've got like 35 games and am still going after 5 years of having one. die sony!!!!!!!

my top 10 games:

-shenmue
-seaman
-dynamite cop
-house of the dead 2
-grandia 2
-power stone
-marvel vs. capcom 2
-sould calibur
-jet grind radio
-gundam side stories 0079!!!

My Dreamcast has without a doubt been one of the toughest consoles I ever had so to the people that whine about quality, guess you had a raw deal. All consoles have had bad batches.

I agree with some of that list, but why no MSR?

Have we all forgotten that the best racing game ever started on the DC?

Did anyone ever get their Neo Geo pocket to sync up with their Dreamcast?

I wouldn't consider PGR the "best racing game ever".
While MSR's fresh approach to racing games was unique and a blast to play, it came with major flaws in a racer's most important departments like phsics, collision detection and framerate, therefore preventing itself from climbing up to the racing references of that time (GT2!)
I'm sure you, too, have noticed, that there's not single racing game on that list. I was a bit bumped too, since I love playing racers, but honestly have to admit, that DC's racers just weren't "defining". I can remember that the PAL versions of F355, GT2 and the PS2 were released within 6 days and of course everybody played GT2 since the release titles for PS2 simply sucked, F355 wasn't even noticed. 3 Months later MSR came out and we kept playing GT2 since it was nowhere near completed. And guess what, later that year, in July, GT3 hit the shelves and noone even knew there were racing games for DC. I'd say bad timing.

There are so many good comments and totally bogus comments that I won't even single anyone out. I'll just add my two cents. the Dreamcast was Sega's last breath as a console developer but I'll tell you this. Sega gave their marketshare away. How? Not because of the 32X or the Sega CD or the Neptune. It's because Sega made some of the most ridiculous development decisions of any developer in recent memory. Dreamcast launched without a Shinobi, without a Thunderblade, without a Space Harrier. They made no sequel to Panzer Saga or the Panzer Dragoon series in general. Astal came and went on the Saturn without any sequel on Dreamcast. What happened to Eternal Champions? Sega could have taken a page out of the Metroid Prime book (before it was even conceived no less) with a 3D update to Zillion. No update to Kenseiden, the Ninja, Miracle Warriors, Hang ON, Virtua Racing, G-LOC, the list goes on and on.

Forget about the PS2 hype machine. Sega could have trounced that if they just supported the Dreamcast with the full portfolio of their games. Sega is the ONLY company that has a portfolio that's as good as Nintendo's and in many cases better. If Sega was going to go down, they should have went down fighting. You don't lay down and die for your enemy. You give them hell before they finally kill you, if they can. Sega laid down and did so stupidly.

Dreamcast failed because Sega was stupid. How can you NOT use the strongest weapons in your arsenal in a fight for survival?

#37, is Dead or Alive 2 not DOA4

I think PS2 won because the original Playstation had probably the best lineup of games ever seen on a console. That carries over into brand trust and therefore, PS2.

Attention all arguing fanboys:

Joystiq is too good of a site to ruin with endless arguing. Please go to somewhere that will respect it, like the Gamefaqs boards.

Past that, am I the only one in the world who thinks Fur Fighters on the Dreamcast is the end all beat all game? I pooled countless hours into that game when I first got it.

Jet Grind Radio was also freaking fantastic on the Dreamcast. Toy Commander was too, best flight sim ever. THPS2 is also the best in the series IMO.

And LOL at "DC had better graphics than PS2, Xbox and even 360".

Who said that? People here have just said that some of the games on the DC were better than the PS2. A lot of the games that were ported to PS2 ended up with those god awful jaggy lines.

As for the demise of the dreamcast, that will always be debated especially because the impact of piracy is difficult to measure. I tend to think that the Sony hype machine was the main reason as many developers dropped support for the DC in anticipation of the PS2 well before it was released. Many gamers also didn't get into DC because they wanted to wait for what was supposed to be a revolutionary system from Sony.

There was also never a must-have game to draw hardware sales. There were some great games but 95% of them were crap.

And what is with the 500 word essays on tile rendering? Can we try to keep it pithy?

Don't forget the NBA2k and NFL2k series....those were always better than the EA games....my personal opinion.

-John

I think it says something that you'd rather play a decent number of the Dreamcast games today rather than current offerings.

I also can't help but think how a lot of these games seem like a real good fit on what we know about Nintendo Revolution, now that the two are best buds and all. A new House of the Dead or Confidential Mission? Another Jet Grind or Power Stone? Samba, Ecco and Seaman... Almost eerie to me at least how well some of these games, now 6+ years old, seem suited for something that's about to come.

"I tend to think that the Sony hype machine was the main reason as many developers dropped support for the DC in anticipation of the PS2 well before it was released."

Developers couldn't care less if PS2 would have never had a fanbase. PS1 broke records, so it's natural that developers would have wanted to develop for PS2.

"Many gamers also didn't get into DC because they wanted to wait for what was supposed to be a revolutionary system from Sony."

Yeah, I'm sure 100 million gamers did that.

Its gets NO BETTER than a night of Samba de Amigo (Ver. 2000 also), Chu Chu Rocket, Powerstone 2, Sega Marine Fishing, and any Shenmue title. All pure perfection.

"Developers couldn't care less if PS2 would have never had a fanbase. PS1 broke records, so it's natural that developers would have wanted to develop for PS2."

But if everyone could have seen that the coming system did not have graphics that matched the previews the DC would have gained in both developer support and sales. The DC had a price and time advantage over the PS2 and a graphic advantage in many games. For example Soul Calibur got a 10 from gamespot yet it's sequel on the PS2 got an 8.5. This is pretty shocking when you consider that the PS2 version came out 4 years later. I still have not seen a game that has gotten a 10, but I'm sure there are a few others.

"Yeah, I'm sure 100 million gamers did that."
So what exactly is your point? A mere 5 million users can make a huge difference. Look at how close the xbox and gamecube are in sales yet the gamecube has been ignored lately by many developers in favor of the xbox and ps2. 5 million users can mean the difference between a viable alternative and a waste of resources.

In a free market Sony has the right to hype their product all they want but I hope at least this time people will remain a little more skeptical. I still will never get over how disappointed I was when I tried out Devil May Cry. Completely jaggy and not even close to the previews. Sony will definitely not get my business this time around.

#54

Try not to put words in my mouth. You'll just find yourself making unsupportable statements. This 'general PS2 owner' is also a Master System, GameGear, Gensesis w/Sega CD & 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast owner. I'm hardly unfamiliar with Sega's products.

The simple fact is that poor ports to the PS2 only measure the efforts and skills of that team, not the machines involved. Has good and memorable work been done on the Dreamcast? Of course.

A large number of reviews have suggested the Gran Turismo is more attractive to most viewers than Forza. Does this mean the the machines suddenly changed in their potential abilities? No, it just means one team, over and above technical talent and the platforms each had to use, made better choices as to how to reach the bigger audience. But these are two similar but entirely separate projects. The weak ports like Rez and SC5 would offer some useful perspective if the teams involved made some definitive statements. Did they have difficulty gettting the PS3 to measure up? Or did they simply not make the effort for a port they gave to the original project? They would hardly be the first team who'd gotten tired of a project that had worn out its welcome in their lives. It's sometimes better to let another hired team handle a port just to prevent burnout.

It's incredibly rare to find a multiple platform game that really serves to compare the machines involved unless the disparity is so great that the resulting games are only thematically the same. Like a 3D shooter on the GameCube that unde rthe same name is a 2D sidescroller on the GBA. When you have fairly equivalent platforms the lowest common denominator will dominate the game design. One platform might get a unique feature, say hard drive caching on the Xbox or an EyeToy mini-game on the PS2 or connectivity between GameCuba and GBA versions, but the economics of mulit-platform development votes against really optimizing for each platform.

This is good for the EAs and other big publishers but lousy for 'mine is bigger' fights in online forums. Would an Xbox Gran Turismo look better? Could the PS2 host a good port of Halo 2 without severe losses in quality or features?

We'll never know.

Dreamcast was a good platform plagued by its owner's mistakes. But it had its limits like any design frozen in time. Once the manufacturer must commit to a certain amount of RAM the system is bound by that forever after. (The N64 was one of the rare evasions of this but the RAM Expansion Pak saw far less use than anyone but an irrational N64 hater would have liked. Odlly, the N64 RAM Expansion existed because of the N64's greatest deficit, its lack of a optical drive as standard. The RAM was intended to enable buffering for an add-on magnetic drive. The Sega Saturn could make good use of RAM in the cartridge slot but barely supported the capbility and treated it as non-existent in the US. Items like this were a must for Saturn import gamers: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=178&products_id=1694&PHPSESSID=b19dad30bbb52923273d49dd4d7dd63d
One can only imagine what might have happened if the memory market shifted downward and allowed the Xbox to ship with 128 MB RAM.)

Like most machines of its generation, there was no provision for adding RAM to the Dreamcast, and doing so just complicates measuring the installed based for publishers' decisions. This limit put an constraint on the amount of texture data that could be in memory at any moment and consequently a gap begins to appear in the look of PS2 games as that later machine becomes the LCD for designers. This is not because the DReamcast was weak or bad in any way. It just had the best that could be done at the time for the price. (Personally, I'd have made the modem optional and added even just two megabytes of memory to keep the Dreamcast competitve that much longer but the modem was viewed as far more important than it turned out to be.) If somebody had introduced another popular console that was stronger than the Xbox but considered of the same 'generation,' the GameCube might have moved into the LCD position while the PS2 faded. (Leaving aside Sony's other infuential advantage of numbers sold.)

I have a pretty extensive colelction of Dreamcast games (around 120 IIRC) and many are very good uses of the hardware. But when held up against the last two years of major titles on other systems it doesn't take long to see the hardware being limited by memory and other factors. If conditions had allowed, a Dreamcast 2 with better performance (nothing huge, just incremental) and a lot more RAM would have pleased developers and gamers alike. But it wasn't to be.

There is no sin in fond memories of something that never reached its full potential. Few things truly do. But there is self-delusion in denying where that potential would have ended. The fact is that many items on the PS2 would be simply impossible to replicate on the Dreamcast without major cuts. No amount of programming sophistication can eliminate that wide a gap in texture availability. PS3 devs work their asses off to get the full use of the machine but the sales potential earns that effort.

#48


The various Sega games appeared on the platforms chosen by the teams. They were given considerable leeway in those choices so long as there wasn't a contractual obligation involved. Monkey Ball was first seen at home on GameCube because Nintendo offered the best prospects then for the kid and family friendly game. After Monkey Ball proved to have universal appeal it was given ports almost everywhere. The Rez team simply didn't have Xbox on their radar, as with so many Japanese dev teams. No mystery there.

You're right. You aren't hardware savvy. Take it from those of us who understand the math. Having far less texture memory has a direct effect on what developers can get out of a scene.

You're wrong about the Sinclair Spectrum. It sold well in the UK and bit of Europe. Elsewhere, well, it sold a bunch in the UK! It was non-existent outside of a tiny, measured in hundreds, group in North America who imported it or bought the shortlive Timex version. Most people in the US have never heard of Amstrad. I know it because I got a lot of import Brit computer mags in the 80s and early 90s before things narrowed down to little more than PCs and the web became a less expensive substitute. Worldwide, the Commodore 64 was so far ahead of the Spectrum it isn't funny. Everybody in the US and UK/Europe kept cranking out C64 games when in their heart of hearts they wanted to do Amiga work, because it was just so profitable in its installed base. Mirrorsoft never thought to ask us if we wanted to see Spectrum or Amstrad versions of our Cinemaware games. We just didn't care so long as they issued checks for what ever miniscule sales those delivered. In most cases they just stuck with the 16-bit systems and the C64. Everything else couldn't do justice to the graphics. The NES versions of some titles were wretched compromises made purely for huge base. My boss was far more enthused about the PC Engine/TurboGrafx as a console target.

Seriously, the Spectrum came and went well before the C64 ran out of steam. It isn't a fair comparison. It's like putting the GameBoy Color against the SNES. The GBC did good business but could never be considered in direct competition if those products had co-existed. It wasn't intended to and didn't need to.

The Dreamcast was in direct competiton, though and those differences would be inevitable over time. It helps to have pressure from a more powerful challenger. The C64 did its best after the Amiga upped the ante. The Dreamcast would have stretched to its limits to keep pace with the PS2 but meanwhile the PS2 would struggle to hold off the GameCube and Xbox. The pressure never lets up. My argument was not that the PS2 didn't earn its place on the shelf. Just that given enough time the limits would kick in for it just as they would have for the Dreamcast before it. If the market were evenly divided no machine would see a replacement from its maker until it had begun losing ground. But there is far more to that in the competition. The PS2 will be seen at retail long after the GameCube and Xbox are displaced by their brand succesors thanks to the platform being so massive in reach.

(Nintendo hasn't said when the GameCube will be discontinued but it is likely if the Revolution comes in at a very low price Nintendo will move to consolidate around it ASAP. Without the numbers of a longtime #1 system it may not be worth their trouble to keep producing the GameCube as it was the NES and SNES long after they were fading. With backward compatibility it's jsut as easy to suggest that any latecomers to GameCube interest just spend a little more for the full Revolution advantages.)

One thing people keep failing to consider is that Rez wasn't a visual masterpiece. It was attractive and engaging but not an exercise that tested the limits of any of the platforms where it appeared.

A better comparison would be something like Resident Evil 4. An impressive job was done of straining the PS2 to put in a respectable comparison to the GameCube original. This was a texture intensive game. Putting it on the Dreamcast would require major cuts. It would be simply unavoidable that the texture budget would greatly overrun the available meory resources on the Sega. Putting it on the Dreamcast would be like expecting a C64 not to become a monochromatic shadow of itself on the Sinclair Spectrum. That puts an unfair requirement on the weaker machine instead of respecting what it achieved in its prime.

epobirs

Im from the UK. Maybe thats the difference here. Your from the states I guess? If so we will argue till we are both blue in the face. The Speccy situation still stands in the UK, it killed all competition here full stop. Sinclair was a company that made many bad decisions and lost its leadership, just like many others have done. Commodore shat the Amiga by going a similar path. Here Sega were big. Master system killed NES, MegaDrive (Genesis) was completely dominant in 16bit (didnt quite kill SNES, but sold alot more). The Saturn would have been just as big but here is where sega made their mistakes and Sony jumped in. Giving Sega credit though, they (In my opinion) managed to rectify their problems with the DC, it was just too late. But anyway, this is all distracting from my original point (Which now seems insignificant because its been blown out of proportion).

At the time regardless of how much RAM limitation or whatever hardware cackness compared to other systems.... You infact dont have to be tech savvy to SEE the DC could infact hold its own to PS2 when it launced in 2000. I really think it would be a respectable system now, many people vouch for this as they STILL use the DC even now! (me being amongst many) The games might not have looked as good, but they would be possible and look ok!... It was selling very well in all territories (which is more than the Xbox360 is doing now... Japan... oops!) at the time of its demise and if that had continued then what developer could ignore such a base? BTW, correct me if im wrong... but the PS2 doesnt have much more RAM than the DC? Infact doesnt the DC have MORE video RAM (And maybe less system RAM)??? I just don't understand why you keep saying RAM this RAM that... RAM isnt everything... Efficient coding? Hee hee, I'll shut up there before you kick ma ass ;)

But please look at how this guy is getting big fat RAMMY Hungry Neo Geo AES games running on DC in EMULATION... Jimminy!

http://chui.dcemu.co.uk/index.html

This is just mad coders doing amazing things with the DC. Not meant to be how The DC would be used in a commercial situation now.

Look, this is all hyperthetical. In real life if Sega had carried on there would be a new system by now anyways I would imagine. It figures. Its 8 frekkin' years ago!

Regardless of the conversions I mentioned comparing like games still showed that the PS2 wasnt that far infront of the DC, and in some ways the DC was nicer. I and may I knew were shocked at how cack the PS2 seemed at launched. My mate bought a Jap one with RRV and Tekken Tag. After 6 months of complete NOTHING he sold it and carried on playing his hello kitty DC (Lucky Bazzdood).

Don't get me wrong, just because im not tech savvy it doesnt mean I don't know a thing or two about the industry over the last 20 years and experience with owning the systems out there. The general trend is that its not the GFX and hardware superiority that wins a battle. Games, price, timing, FASHION! Those are the ingredients. The PS2 without the DC being there is the inferior one too. Funny that eh?

Also, I own many systems still now. (my attic is a gold mine, there is a Boxed First generation Wondermega hiding up there along with a boxed ZX81 and many others). I've played and enjoyed many. And in a broader minded sense it really is a shame that alot of machines never got a look in. DC had an even better attemt than many others I've seen in the past at least.

Right now I actively use PSP, PS2, Xbox360 and my lil' DC :) and I'm proud of em all for different reasons! I'm not a fanboy as such, I just like to defend where its due (A bit like how I will defend Sony against the seeming mass of anyi Sony and Nintendo fanboys of late), Sega did it right in the end as far as games and hardware, but they still made bad decisions (WHY oh WHY didnt you let Microsoft take you over?? At least then we'd have all the cool Sega development teams in one piece as they were then!).

Anyways, I can't be arsed to read any follow ups now. (its like on page two now, too many clicks!) So go ahead and kick my ass with more techy stuff and nit pick my examples if ya want.. I aint listening ;)

Since I've been getting consoles these are the ones I've gotten (in order of purchase) NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, PSX, Dreamcast.
The dreamcast was definetly one of my better buys. After all those years with nintendos I can honestly say that the dreacast really did get it right and I'm inclined to think that the downfall was more timing and money than anything else. If Sega ever revived it's self and made a dreamcast2 I would definetly be a supporter.

my favorite games:
Shenmue
Quake III: Arena (there are still people online!)
Seaman
Grandia2