New Mario lacks 'newness,' says Infendo
Infendo's Rollin had a
thing or two to say about New Super Mario Bros. in this morning's post: "It's not a new game, and
moreover it's not a DS game. Judging by the info and screens we have up to this point, this looks like an ankle-deep,
shallow relic of Mario's past..." Ouch!Before Rollin is tossed to the wolves, let's consider this: maybe he's right. Okay, rephrase that: maybe he's on to something. Why are gamers so excited about New Mario? What does a 20-year-old concept bring to the table? Is it relevant to the DS? Worthy of a full-priced release? What if instead, it was an unlockable mini-game featured in a Revolution Mario title? Or better, an inexpensive download via Nintendo's Virtual Console service?
The original Super Mario Bros. is a game I cherish, but often times I feel — as Rollin seems to imply — that Nintendo profits off of my nostalgia. Is that a bad thing? From a business standpoint, of course not. But if we're going to criticize other companies for churning out sequels and rehashes, we'd best lift the 'untouchable' veil from in front of Nintendo's name and let them have it too. New Super Mario Bros. will be fun, but let's not kid ourselves, it's not gonna shake up the state of gaming in 2006.











Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
WizarDru @ Apr 12th 2006 4:23PM
"Nintendo for some reason remains immune to the complaint that there are too many sequels and rehashes and games that exist within one franchise."
No, they're not immune to it...they don't actually DO IT that much. There's a big difference between heavy use of the BRAND and overuse of the game. Has Mario been overexposed? That's debatable. My kids don't think so.
But if you think Mario Party 6, Mario Power Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Strikers and Mario DDR are all the same game, you clearly haven't played them. Even the ones that are rehashes add new things to the formula.
And here's a kicker for you: in the 'would it be a good game without Mario' equation, the answer is that many of the NES/SNES 'Mario' games were changed to ADD Mario. They originally didn't feature him AT ALL. So to were some of the enemies changed. So the answer is Yes, these games would still be enjoyable without Mario. And it doesn't hurt Nintendo to have him in them, either.
Edmund @ Apr 12th 2006 4:45PM
Wait, you mean it's just liek the old Mario games and they changed nothing? THANK GOD! That's exactly the point of the game.
Kirk @ Apr 12th 2006 4:46PM
Yeah...Nintendo is the only company guilty of "cashing-in" on nostalgia. Nice try. How many more Gran Turismo games do we need? Disney has ANCIENT characters that they still make money on. Anyone watched any Hollywood rehashes lately? How long is THAT list? King Kong, Dukes of Hazard, Ocean's 11, etc, etc, etc -> infinity. Anyone still read Peanuts Comics in your daily newspaper? Still reading/watching/playing Spiderman/Superman/Batman are we? You guys gonna buy Scarface again on HD-DVD or BluRay?
C'mon idiots...why shouldn't Nintendo make a new Super Mario game of all harmless things? Don't sit there and prey on Nintendo for milking old franchises when the entertainment industry as a whole does the same damn thing over, and over again.
Kirk @ Apr 12th 2006 4:48PM
Oh...and at least Nintendo's so-called rehashes are actually worthwhile.
Vinicius Silva @ Apr 12th 2006 4:53PM
Bullshit!
I still play the first Super Mario Bros on my Famicom, and I can't wait to play New Super Mario Bros!
Darrel @ Apr 12th 2006 5:11PM
No it WON'T change gaming forever, but that's not why I'm buying New Super Mario Bros. I'm buying it because it has been a LONG time since a new Mario Sidescroller came out. And b golly, I won't be too dissapointed.
Chris Remo @ Apr 12th 2006 5:15PM
THIS is newsworthy, Joystiq? A Nintendo fan writes something critical about Nintendo? It's worth reporting every time any fan of a company writes something negative about that company's upcoming games? The guy hasn't even PLAYED the game, and his opinions on how it PLAYS are newsworthy? I HAVE played the game, and the best thing about it is how it simultaneously blends old and new elements in a way that's constantly surprising.
It won't shake up the gaming world of 2006? Well that's a big surprise, considering there are two entire consoles coming out this year. New Super Mario Bros. isn't going to overshadow those two minor events? Consider me surprised--and informed! Perhaps, as a Nintendo fan, this guy is only so disillusioned because he actually DID expect this game to be "the game of 2006." If so, his starting assumptions are so incredibly ludicrous that I can't see why anybody would give his story more than a passing glance.
Cowlix @ Apr 12th 2006 5:53PM
"Judging by the screens and info we have up to this point..."
What? You mean he hasn't even PLAYED it yet? How can he assume so much from a game that he has not even sat down and experinced? The game's not even fully developed yet!!
Sloopydrew @ Apr 12th 2006 6:05PM
Is this post a joke? New Super Mario Bros. is the game TONS of us have been waiting for since Super Mario World. Of course it will be similar to Super Mario World, like Super Mario World was similar to Super Mario Bros. III, etc. etc.
Should it be a full-priced game? Being that there is no game this entire year I want more, I'd say yes.
Your post is a bit ridiculous, James. Should ANY sequel be a "full-priced" game? Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is almost IDENTICAL to Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, with prettier graphics, and it's going for $60 on the 360.
The argument you're making seems to be, "Is any sequel worth paying full-price?" I'm not sure. But I know I'll be paying my $8.00 to get into the next Indiana Jones film.
Next ...
Wes @ Apr 12th 2006 6:18PM
Uh, yeah this is lame. Who cares if it's the same? Hell, I'd pay a full 30 dollars for Mario 3 with shiny new 3-D graphics and some lame tack-on touch screen features like playing the memory game with my stylus.
It's a game, and if it's fun, then it's fully worth the price. Nobody bitches at Parker Bros. or whoever because they make a new version of Monopoly every 2 months.
Lagomorpho @ Apr 12th 2006 7:38PM
If a game doesn't take advantage of any of the special DS hardware, what's it doing on the DS? Are two screens necessary for a side-scroller? I think two decades of single screen side scrolling action is proof enough that it's not necessary.
So why not just release this for the GBA? The DS isn't competition or a replacement for the DS, right? The DS would be able to play the GBA cart anyway and they'd sell more units to everyone with a GBA.
I'm sure the game will be fun but I won't be spending any money on it, especially since it'll probably be one of the higher priced DS games.
Brandon @ Apr 12th 2006 7:42PM
"And here's a kicker for you: in the 'would it be a good game without Mario' equation, the answer is that many of the NES/SNES 'Mario' games were changed to ADD Mario. They originally didn't feature him AT ALL. So to were some of the enemies changed. So the answer is Yes, these games would still be enjoyable without Mario. And it doesn't hurt Nintendo to have him in them, either."
But the concern is, if the game is good on its own without Mario slapped on it, why not release it with an original character and have a new intellectual property to work with in addition to the old ones.
Jholdaway wrote
It should say:
"It just seems a bit [inevitable]. It is [the] preying ... of gamers [that result in the] long running franchises, [so give them] some respect... I think nintendo does it [best]."
I don't think nintendo does it best nessecarily, i just think nintendo fans dont mind it as much because its their beloved mario. It doesnt matter to them that original games end up getting a mario paintjob and sold as mario games when the could be the NEW games they say are so lacking in the industry. I just think they should practice what they preach a little more, not that they dont; it's just that they dont to the extent they claim.
Since sony seems to be such a villain to many fanboys as of late, I will use them as an example. The transition from Psone to PS2 saw many franchises cross over, however the majority of large franchises that are noted on the PS2 originated in this generation. There are a handful of major franchises that crossed both generations (Tekken, MGS, Gran Turismo) but for the most part, most of the sequels we see are from games that started this gen. Compare that to nintendo, who has made over 20 games with Mario as the main character. There are only two major franchises that come to mind that nintendo created in this generation and those are Pikmin, and Animal Crossing (i'm sure there may be more, but they are significantly fewer than other companies). I commend nintendo on at least aiming at innovation and new games, but they dont have the past to claim that they are any better with sequels and rehashes than their competitors. Do we really need that many mario party's?
Graham @ Apr 12th 2006 8:08PM
When is the last time Nintendo put out a 2D Mario Bros title that wasn't Amazing? Super Mario Bros 2, and some people say it's their favorite SMB title ever. New Super Mario Bros will have new 3D moves translated over to the 2D platform, allowing for Viewtiful Joe-like fluidity during combat and platforming. I don't care if it banks on nostalgia, because it's a new goddamn Mario.
RageOverdose @ Apr 12th 2006 8:15PM
I have a question? Why does it seem Nintendo gets the big guns pointed at them when the stuff about sequels pop up? Sequels are very common in games; POP, EA sports, Burnout, GTA, and oh, so much more. Know what? Not a problem, as long as the game remains good. And Nintendo does that, keeps the games enter-freakin-taining.
Nintendo is NOT about innovation, but rather ENTERTAINMENT. Get that into your skulls. They rehash characters, so? You know what, they keep the games pretty damn fun. They make games not focused on plot or story, but rather interaction. Mario in the 2-D era wasn't agile. He jumped, gained new powers, but never was he agile. It all changed though, with the introduction of Mario 64. He then gained agility but kept the same ideas (added more collection, but not to Rare's degree, thank God) in the games, as well as the "story". People loved it. It was entertaining for its new gameplay. They are mixing the agility into the 2-D realm now, and that's what makes this "New". Not really innovative, but fun (I hope).
Nintendo innovates when they feel they have to, or rehash for the same reason. Their goal isn't to innovate, but rather entertain, and now they want to entertain as many people as possible. Brain Training and Nintendogs are games for those that don't play much, and those people find them entertaining. They achieved the goal through innovation. NSBM is for the gamer at heart, and they don't have to innovate, just improve.
Ninja Monkey Lover @ Apr 12th 2006 8:26PM
This Rollin guy didn't even know what he was talking about, nor did he do much research before spouting off.
Rollin says:
"NSMB doesn't even have to be on the DS."
Gamespot says:
"In the two-player mode, you'll pit Mario against Luigi in a heated side-scrolling sibling rivalry. The two of you will compete through an endless stage to collect the most coins, and you can attack the other brother to make him drop all his coins so that you can pick them up..."
IGN says:
"The touch screen comes into play by giving players instant access to an extra power-up they've snagged along the way…much like Super Mario World on the Super NES."
"The 3D characters mean more versatile, smoother animation..."
In other words, two player mini-games, 3-D polygonal models, touch screen functionality... obviously this had to be on the DS.
Considering how many people have been wanting this game for the longest time I don't know how anyone can blame Nintendo for actually giving their fans what they want.
MetaHuman @ Apr 12th 2006 8:39PM
So now people are tired of sequels just as Nintendo finally finishes the one everyone wants. :(
But saying if NSMB is only to make money off of the nostalgic I'll disagree with. That claim raises a couple questions as well:
-Is side-scrolling 2D nostalgic?
-Is the idea of making 2D games ONLY for preying on people who like nostalgia?
Those questions were raised by the writer, whether it subconciously or not. If he is saying that something is nostalgic and ONLY for getting by on nostalgia he probably also meant that they weren't worth exploring any further.
So are 2D games worth exploring anymore? I disagree. NSMB contains aspects of all its predecessors (even from the original Mario Bros.) and with those skills combined with the gameplay we already know, they can create new levels and worlds to play around in.
People can say Mario got old 10 years ago and cite stuff like Yoshi's Island that even Nintendo felt the need to change but now Nintendo knows that there are people who want it and have waited YEARS for it and and the DS is the optimal system to do a new sidescroller on.
It also helps that Mario really helped define the modern view of what platforming should be, both in 2D and 3D. Mario WAS/IS the genre.
So my final question is probably in line with Nintendo's thinking on NSMB:
"Why the hell not?"
INTENTIONALLY slapping 'NEW' on the box is basically spoofing what he was trying to say in the article (not that the article is really bad though).
@ BRANDON
Nintendo has helped make several new franchises, though not as much for Cube, but they are bolstering the DS and GBA line-up right now. Stuff like Golden Sun, Drill Dozer, Cubivore, Trace Memory, a couple Japan-only games like Band Bros.(for now, anyways) etc... and hopefully they'll keep coming. :)
To be honest I loved a ton of the spin-offs Mario and Pokemon had, like the Mario sports games or like Pokemon Snap. I can understand where you're coming from with Party though. I'll say that though I enjoy Mario Party it really is at the bottom of the Nintendo barrel for a lot of people.
Zsavior @ Apr 12th 2006 8:52PM
Word I hate to admit it but nintendo just keeps on rehashing the same mascots back with that jumping up and down crap, and they do other stupid stuff to. I mean look how they make Mario a sell out for doing different games while Cloud can pair up with Winnie the Pooh and friends and still be so cool and hardcore. WHAT YOU Even Brought back Sephroth From the dead to fight in hercules stadium AWESOME! You're not rehashing there you are totally thinking about the gamer!
YOU Taking Notes Nintendo! Stop with the Mario bros jumping up and down crap! Make Link team up with Warner bros Daffy Duck and Taz put him in some black leather pants get some gel for his hair and give us what we really want. "EMPIRE CORONARY!" we get Ayumi Hamazaki to do the theme song and Gackt to do the video and we tell everybody how cool it is. THAT RIGHT THERE IS ORIGINALITY! ALso We get Samus Ran, Princess Peach and other Nintendo Females and We Make JUBBLEE BOUNCE BOUNCE BOWLING STRIKE! WE get these girls put them in bikinis give them Double no... nooo TRIPPLE F BREAST then we make them BOWL! The more strikes you get the More you can freeze fram the bikinis in all the "right" ..wink..wink. places if you Know what I MEAN! AND THERE WILL BE ZOOM BABY! That Right there Is What we Call INNOVATION IWATA, No more of this reflex puzzle Crap I WANT TITIES AND CARTOON CHARACTERS! Wait.. wait does that even make sense ::Shrugs:: I STILL WANT IT THOUGH!
Last I am totally thinking out the box when I say we make nintendo create the game I.O.D "INNOVATE OR DIE BITCH"! The Bitch is silent that is why I didn't put it up there. THis will be a FPS TO THE EXTREME it will be Nintendo's HALO KILLER. SO You get Reggie, then you arm him to the teeth with Rocket Launchers and Guns that shoot explosive babies and splatter blood and you making him hunt game developers. ALSO Using the revmote you give him a pair of NUNCHUCKS, No..Noo wait you give him a pair of SWORD CHUCKS. And to wield them You got to swing the Revmote like a pair of Nunchucks, I mean this how we seperate the noob from the L337 gamers cause noobs can't use nunchucks! And Reggie can like Snap necks and Shoot people and...snap necks, anyway you get my point. SEE BLood makes gaming better cause It's BLOOD! BUt the real Innovation right will be the fact that during the Whole game Reggie NEVER JUMPS! Yup your character is Just that hard core! NOW that Right there is HARD CORE INNOVATION FO DAT ASS!
TME @ Apr 12th 2006 9:54PM
So what? This has been going on for decades. It's a sequel, nearly all sequels are based on the same gameplay as the earlier game with added elements. It's no big deal. This article is very stupid to be frank, sorry but it is.
Bowser @ Apr 12th 2006 10:04PM
As long as there are some new ideas incorporated, and most importantly, the game is actually FUN TO PLAY I'll be more than happy. lol. If it really is just another update of an old Mario title (ie ive played before) with nothing new I wont be as happy and wont purchase. I suppose I should remember that there are plenty of gamers out there however that havent played the classics, and in handheld ds form, its a great platform to get your newbie hands on Marios previous outings, hopefully at a nice price.
I'm all for rereleasing all the classic older titles, thats only going to make the DS library even better, but I would like to see some new effort. At full price, these classics should incorporate new ideas, or at least some new levels and challenges. Nintendo have to realise that the age group for videogames is probably the broadest its ever been, and many of the same groups of people that played with a NES and SNES probably now have a DS.
As for churning out endless sequels, Mario will probably never die in the popularity stakes, so its unlikely he'll ever be gotten rid of, but Nintendo are one of the few companies out there that really do like to try out original ideas from time to time. In looks, look at the graphical style of Yoshis Island in comparison to previous outings such as Super Mario World. In design, of course ds games such as Nintendogs. Remember Mario 64 and Zelda 64? The first true attempts from Nintendo at bringing classic 2d games into a modern 3d light, a very brave thing to do with classic well known characters. They pulled it off brilliantly, and those two games are now hailed as true classics of the late 90s. If I'm ever to play a 2d or 3d platform game, I would choose a Nintendo one. Sure, they arent always perfect (no company is) and dont always pull it off, but you cant say that Nintendo dont at least put in the effort, and 80% of the time that effort comes out of production as a great game.
Quake III Arena @ Apr 12th 2006 11:08PM
I'm sorry, but one more fucking Mario Sunshine and I'd pop.
It's about time Nintendo quit driving their number 1 franchise to hell. I'd like to know how the hell they managed to go so off-track as to stick Mario's ass randomly in every damn game imaginable and make money. Mario soccer, Mario basketball, Mario DDR.
It's about time for Mario to be in an actual Mario GAME.
This game IS a landmark. This marks the end of making money off of Mario's oldskool 2D fame with stupid ass ports. For the first time since Super Mario World, we'll have a REAL Mario game.
I can't wait to eat shrooms and bust a cap in some goomba ass with my fireflowers. THIS is what I've been waiting for.
phipscube @ Apr 13th 2006 5:14AM
#68 Thats it exactly.
The last truley amazing innovative Mario GAME was Mario 64. Since then its been rehash and port, nothing new, blah blah. (Mario Sunshine was new but very, very disappointing)
I'd be praising Nintendo here instead of having a go if NSMB was exactly that... NEW!! All this game is gonna do is blend all the other mario games into one, add fancy GFX , the odd new level and the odd "bonus" game. And its not the first time Nintendo have done this!! (Remember Mario All stars? You got all the old mario games from the NES together with SMW on one cart! Actually it was a good idea then, but not now) Its not new it's wearing thin and its getting like Street Fighter. How many times must we play the same thing with a slight tweak here an there. Next it will be New Super Mario Brothers Alpha. It will be based on time before the original SMB and they'll release it with GFX like something you'd find on an Atari 2600. People will still buy it.
Animal Crossing is in my opinion the only truely amazing thing to come out of Nintendo in a looooong time. Nintendogs is a complete rip off of the old PC "games" Catz (And Dogz). where you had a "Virtual pet" living on your desktop in real time. Its just as boring as that was too after a week. I prefer to play more innovative (yet admittedly short lived) games on DS like Project Rub by Sega. Now that is a fun original game which suits the DS perfectly.
KI Simpson @ Apr 13th 2006 7:38AM
This article is completely wrong. New Super Mario Bros is an ALL NEW Mario platformer with 80 levels. The article heavily implies it is a remake, it is intentionally misleading. NSMB is every bit as worthy of being a new game as Super Mario World. This article is nothing but 2D bashing. Mario platformers are some of the greatest games ever made, and the first new, traditional one in 15 years is a major event, not something that should have been a mini-game.
eslcalssd @ Apr 13th 2006 8:29AM
I have one thing to say: Mario games are fun. So I'll keep buying them until they aren't.
MrP @ Apr 13th 2006 9:39AM
Bah to that. If Nintendo does the same with this as Capcom did with Mega Man Powered Up (i.e. stuff a buttload of extras and a level editor in there), then it's going to be worth buying, even if the "core game" is old.
KI Simpson @ Apr 13th 2006 10:16AM
I repeat, the game is 100% new. It's a completely new Mario platformer, there is no question about that. It is not in any way a remake.
plagiarize @ Apr 13th 2006 12:34PM
Let's not forget how we cried out for a new 2d mario game, when the Super Mario Advance ports were being unleashes on the GBA. Barely a review went past that didn't say 'why can't we get a new 2D Mario game instead of a port of one we've already played?'
This is a NEW Super Mario Bros game. Show me a game branded as 'Super Mario Bros' that wasn't a side scrolling 2D platformer. This isn't a port or remake, that's why it's 'NEW'. If it was something completely new they'd give it a different name. Mario Double Shuffle or something silly. The 'NEW' has to be there to tell people this isn't another Super Mario Advance malarky.
People want this game. Have been wanting it for years. Lets not criticise Nintendo for listening to their customers finally.
SB @ Apr 13th 2006 2:49PM
Who the hell is infendo and why do we care what they think of SCREEN SHOTS without playing a game beforehand?
Nintendo can't win so they might as well just do whatever they want to do anyway.
They aim to release new and innovative games...people piss and moan about how Nintendo is forgetting the hardcore gamer and is losing sight of what made gaming great.
They release games which stay true to their hardcore roots...people piss and moan that they're not innovative enough and don't reinvent gaming.
And who's the road apple who thought this crap constitutes news?
Truedoogie @ Apr 14th 2006 4:11PM
Anyone who thinks this game is a remake is an ignorant fool.
From Nintendo's website...
It's been more than 20 years since Super Mario Bros. first arrived, and now Mario and Luigi are back in an all-new platformer for Nintendo DS. Boasting incredible 3D graphics to accompany classic 2D gameplay, this fast-paced adventure will have Mario fans cheering.
Features
* Run, jump, and stomp your way through raging volcanoes, tropical islands, snowcapped peaks, and unimaginable challenges!
* Grab a Mega Mushroom and grow to incredible proportions, or smash through your foes in a blue Koopa shell!
* Challenge a friend to a wireless face-off on specially designed levels, or play up to three friends in a ton of Touch Screen minigames.
New Worlds!
New Super Mario Bros. features eight all-new worlds, each filled with extra levels, hidden paths, and secrets galore. It's possible to complete the game without visiting every world, which means you'll have to track down many alternate exists to visit every nook and cranny in the game.
New Power-Ups!
You'll find classic power-ups like the Super Mushroom and the Fire Flower in the game, and there are some all-new power-ups that let Mario explore the Mushroom Kingdom like never before.
Super Mushroom
Mario's most basic power-up doubles his size and grants him the strength to smash through blocks. It also allows him to survive a single enemy hit.
Fire Mario
The Fire Flower transforms Mario into Fire Mario, allowing him to throw fireballs that bounce along the ground and can damage or destroy most foes.
Mega Mushroom
Grab a Mega Mushroom to make Mario grow to colossal size for a short time. Mega Mario can smash enemies, blocks and even pipes simply by running into them.
Mini Mushroom
Snag a Mini Mushroom to shrink Mario down to micro size. In this teeny form, Mario can go into small pipes and travel down tiny paths. Plus, he's so light that he can perform floating jumps and run on water.
Koopa Shell
When Mario picks up a special blue Koopa shell, he'll transform into Shell Mario. Shell Mario can smash through enemies and blocks like a Koopa shell, and also swim more quickly underwater.
New Moves!
New Super Mario Bros. expands Mario's arsenal of moves to include some very powerful advanced techniques. If you want to uncover every secret in the game, you'll have to master them all.
Ground Pound
Known in some circles as the "butt bounce," this move allows Mario to pound the ground from above. This technique can be used to attack enemies or to break bricks.
Special Jumps
Mario can gain new heights by performing double and triple jumps similar to those found in Super Mario 64.
Wall Jump
Mario's new wall jumping ability is probably the most-used new move in the game. You'll have to use this technique to reach hidden items, and it can save your life if you accidentally fall into a pit.
New Multiplayer!
There are two multiplayer modes in New Super Mario Bros. -- Mario vs. Luigi and Minigames. In Mario vs. Luigi mode, it's brother vs. brother in a race for Stars. The goal of the game is to collect the Stars that appear throughout the stage at timed intervals. If your brother gets a Star first, don't worry. Any time you damage your bro, he'll drop one of his Stars and you can claim it for yourself. This mode is available for two players, and you only need one game card to play.
The Minigames mode offers a wide variety of simple touch-screen activities. You can challenge them solo, or use them as the basis of a minigame tournament for up to four players. The minigames may be simple, but they're surprisingly fun when you're putting your skills to the test against your friends.
Bottom Line
The great thing about New Super Mario Bros. is that it takes everything that was so spectacular about the original series and takes it to the next level. The new moves and power-ups are awesome, and it's hugely satisfying to find hidden item blocks and other secrets scattered throughout the game. The replay value is through the roof, especially with the addition of the Mario vs. Luigi multiplayer mode. Never before has "New" been so dramatically understated.
Nick Swenson @ Apr 16th 2006 7:55PM
Translation: Sidescrollers suck, Mario needs to be controlled with the touch screen, Mario should have a gun, 50 Cent 4eva!
sgt_goomba @ May 11th 2006 12:19AM
Sorry Rollin, you are dead wrong here. I think Mario is put into new situations all the time. Dancing, playing tennis, basketball, jetting around with a water pack. I see nothing wrong with getting back to his roots every now and then, and the portable systems are the perfect platform for that. Nintendo gives us innovative gameplay constantly, and they have well earned their right to profit off of nostalgia every now and then.
Hope to see you at the next nintendo world store overnight Rollin!