King of All Cosmos has no love for Revolution

Dang, thought I was gonna get thanked :/ (Damn 1up!)
Oh well, there are a whole lot more news for me to submit.

On the subject, im not really surprised he said that. I mean, Katamari Damacy is a Sony bound game and he probably doesn't want to make any more of these games no matter what platform.

Cheers.

This guy wants to make playgrounds instead of games, so who gives a crap what he thinks of the controller? Probably hasn't seen it in action, much less used it. *YAWN*

At least he didn't sound like an arrogant ass like Mark Rein did.

I do wonder if this is another case of "I haven't tried it, it looks wierd so it probably won't work" syndrome.

...and yes, they ruined Me and My Katamari with the control scheme. The series was (from its inception) supposed to be easy to pick up and play yet with the PSP version it is incredibly hard to get coordinated using the D-pad and face buttons to move.

I have yet to see any reason to play Katamari on DS. Why would you want to break your wrist, or constantly be bobbing your head around trying to see around your hand/pen that's in the way of your view?

Katamari was designed with a standard controller in mind, not the Revmote, so why get mad that he doesn't want to port it over?

This is a keen observation...Katamari is already such a casual gamer game it doesn't need a revolution controller to make it any more attractive to non-gamers...

Since the revolution is all about noob gamers and games it would seem to be a good fit for Katamari...but I guess he just doesn't like the controller. I can't blame him...I think its a crap gimmik as well.

Hiro Protagonist -- sorry many, I never saw your tip (though, you probably did send one, our inboxes get flooded with so many I might've slipped up). As you've been a frequent tipster and helped us out a ton, I'll go by the honor code and give you a nod in the post.

Blinded zealot!

Correction -- I found your tip, but I had this article finished around 3pm, so I was already done ... oh well, credit's given anywho.

Why would you bob your head over when you just look at the top screen? Erm @ #4

organic_shadow, that's why the Nintendo DS has two screens: you can control the Katamary in the touch screen but see the action in the other one, so you hand will not block your vision.

Most of the people are saying that the DS and Revolution would be ideal for Katamary mainly because, although originally created with the dual analog sticks in mind, it seems like the control scheme of the Revo and the DS would be even simpler (and maybe more fun). It's cool to control the Katamary as if it was a RC car, but imagine if it reacted to you hand movement.... I think it would be cool.

I'm always surprised to see Takahasi giving such boisterous opinions on companies and other games. He has made a grand total of ONE good game(along with a handful of dismal sequals), yet he consistently speaks as though he's the savior of the industry. Am I missing something?

"I have yet to see any reason to play Katamari on DS."

B/c its a ball...and you can push and pull it. The game itself isn't very good but Pac N' Roll on the DS was a nice example of how it can work.

Besides...just b/c someone was designed to be used with a controller doesn't mean it can't be done with either the Revmote or the DS. You are also forgetting that the Revolution controller will also have a shell for the remote for more traditional games.

The DS and revolution would be best for Katamari Damacy. DS = Touch Screen, Revolution = Controlleer tilted to move the Katamari. Namco is just being overly-reliable on F***ING SONY!

This guy is right. Since when does a controller make a console next-gen?

Thanks many Ross. I Can't tell you how happy I get when I help out with the news. (Even if you had already written them before)
I understand, Joystiq is pretty famous. Im not surprised you get so much mail.

Ive sent another mail a while ago by the way.
More Revolution support from Ubisoft:
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/701/701658p1.html

Cheers.

yes but with such a small screen and more limited graphical capabilites? no thanks. it already got dumbed down enough on PSP, and even with touch screen it only seems like it would get dumbed down even more.

i could go on and on about how impractical i find the DS, but that is neither or nor there.

@ Pretty Obvious:

Nintendo have never tried to call their console 'next-gen' - in fact, they're specifically highlighted that it isn't an evolution of existing consoles.

And saying that a controller shouldn't have much emphasis on the enjoyment of games, therefore the Revmote is flawed, is utter rubbish. The whole point of the Revmote is to make control more intuitive, make the controller more invisible when playing the game - so that it doesn't hinder your enjoyment whatsoever.

A couple of years ago, when Nintendo said they wanted to create a revolution; you know, changing the controller and all that stuff, naturally, there was a lot of skepticism, and there were also "haters." "What are they doing?" "Nintendo's going to go the way of Sega." Fast forward, and look at how much the attitudes have changed. I think if Nintendo wouldn't be doing what they're doing now, a lot of people would be very dissapointed. Look at DS' success. Personally, I'm really excited for the controller. And seriously, whenever I play my Cube or Xbox, I'm always thinking of the Rev controller. The controllers are starting to seem or feel archaic to me. I don't like "copycats", but I really do feel this is another Nintendo invention that the "others" with follow.

@ organic_shadow:

Uhh...have you seen the graphics for Katamari? It isn't exactly the most technologically taxing game engine. Plus the DS is plenty capable of running the game.

Repeat after me: "The new controller is a gimmick. It may ultimately benefit gameplay, but Nintendo should not bet the farm on it."

I'm surprised noone has claimed bias yet with the comment "We think the game might have been more enjoyable on a certain touch-screen-centric competitor."

meanwhile, so one person doesnt care for the controller. big deal. all the other companies seem to love it, so who cares what this guy says.

as for this being on the ds..unless you did watch the top screen, it would be a pain. ever play kirby canvas curse? i love my ds, but damn is it hard to play. i have big hands (..ladies?) and it was hard as hell to see the screen. It's the only DS game I bought that I ended up getting rid of. Whats the point of playing a game I could barely see?

the thing about the ds is that you have to make the touch screen control fluid and useful, not make it the only way to play a game. Animal Crossing has it right on the money with the fact that you could play the whole game with just the pad and buttons, but the touch screen makes certain things easier (typing out letters, etc.)

that's not to say that the touch screen sucks, I love it. its just it shouldnt be your only option of control.

/rant

I thought the guy quit the biz. And there IS a certain amount of weight a controller has for a game. Otherwise we wouldn't have games like Marble Madness, or any of the really strictly Arcade games. In my opinion Revolution will take those unique aspects and put them into one STANDARD controller. So really we're not supposed to be 'excited about the controller' but how we interface with the game. Ironically people praise Katamari Damacy for just that. An intuitive, simple interface that's really fun.

Just because it's the 3D Age doesn't mean a brilliant 2D/isometric version that uses 2D scaling techniques brilliantly couldn't be made. A lot of games made the jump to 3D, but a lot of 3D games can't be 2D? Come on. ;)

I actually own Kirby Canvas Curse, it's a great game AND I thought the controls were just fine. There was a slight learning curve but after you get it down it's addiciting as hell.

@ Darth Pixel:

Repeat after me: "You have not held, touched or played a game with the controller so have no idea what you are talking about."

On the side...the so-called "gimmick" that people used to describe the DS is dominating the PSP.

Actually this is the first time I've ever heard some valid criticism on the Revolution. And by that I mean criticism that sounds plausible to me, and not something ala "it's just a gimmick" or "it's not powerful enough".

But I'm not quite sure yet if I agree with him...

The Katamari games are utter crap anyway.

this guy is a fu**ing sony fanboy

"I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games ... I see what [Nintendo is] trying to do, but they're putting such emphasis on the controller; 'Woah, this controller lets you do this!' and I'm thinking - are you messing with us?"

it's not the controller stupid it's the new different way of playing games

meow

The only thing I can see that wouldn't work with a Katamari DS is it wouldn't be powerful enough. Yes, Katamari is a simple game, featuring object with very simple geometry and such, but the sheer amount of objects on the screen at one time can be quite taxing on the system. I mean...even the PSP version encountered LOTS of slow down, and it even became so bad that they had to actually remove objects from the Katamari, making the sense of size and progress not as prominent.

Other than that, DS Katamari would be awesome (thought the soundtrack wouldn't be as high of a quality, but that'd be okay for me). I'd love to do some touch-screen rolling. As for the stylus getting in the way of your view: Nintendo DUAL Screen.

Also, Keita Takahashi is speaking from a third party developer's standpoint. He doesn't believe so much in the controller because he can make a game (or playground :P) for whatever system he wants. Nintendo only has their Revolution (when it comes to home consoles), and they want to differenitiate themselves from the 360 and PS3, so it's imperative that they stress the big difference, that being the controller.

13. This guy is right. Since when does a controller make a console next-gen?

Posted at 4:51PM on Apr 19th 2006 by Pretty Obvious 0 stars
___

Since when does the same thing we've been doing for the past 20 years make a console next-gen?

And by the way, Nintendo calls it "new-gen." And all the developers are loving it.

The ironic thing is, Miyamoto praised Katamari Damacy, saying during an interview he wished he had thought of it. Now for a developer to say a controller shouldn't influence the enjoyment of a game... If it leads to innovation and sparks new game ideas, control methods, and even new genres, I would think that would be a good thing. And what if we still had the Pong paddle? The dual analogs sure influenced Katamari, as the game is pretty much built around those two things alone. His remarks contradict his own feelings - he didn't even want to make the 2 Katamari sequels and has recently said there's no room left to expand the series. It's like he's in a desert complaining about how thirsty he is and the Kool-Aid guy's been right by his side the whole time!

"But man, where can I find something to drink?"
::Kool-Aid man dances around:: "Oh yeah!"
"Quiet Kooly, I'm trying to think where there might be something to drink!"
::Kool-Aid guy in disbelief, shaking his giant pitcher of Kool-Aid::

If I had a Katamari Ball, I'd roll Keita Takahashi up with it for being an idiot. If he doesn't want innovation, what does he want? Graphics? Katamari didn't have that going for it, so what's his point? Does his check come Sony?

But yeah, I'm sure his opinion will change within a year. And even if it doesn't, there will be plenty of great games for Revolution to even care about his opinions. He can continue to not make games while everyone else has fun.

"13. This guy is right. Since when does a controller make a console next-gen? "

Is that sarcasm?

Because controls are pretty much the defining characteristic of "next gen."

It's why the 360 feels so positively current-gen, and why the PS3 likely will, too. Same controls = same abilities.
New graphics and horsepower give us new layers, but has the 360 had a single game that wouldn't have been possible, with some concessions, on the Xbox?


Next-gen should mean breakthrough technology.
The PS3 and 360 both promise bigger technology, but absolutely nothing new.

Whether the Rev controller is the right kind of new is up for debate. But at least it will allow new gameplay. Sony and MSFT are just bringing more of the same gameplay.

tell me, who is rating these comments. nintendo cynicists always get quietly praised, and it is troubling.

number 18: the controller is a gimmick, like the ds was? that is, before games started being reviewed. if a focus, and exploration, of gameplay is a smoke screen than you are right. but really making gaming consoles that concentrate on (1) graphics, (2) media center functionality, (3) violence, etc. are the frauds. is everyone forgetting the d-pad? nintendo's invention. nintendo is responsible for the standard sony and microsoft are remaining faithful to.

number 13: the only thing that makes a console next generation is its release date. is the xbox really restricted by its hardware? i dont think so. "since when does a controller make a console next generation"? since when does a graphics upgrade make a console next generation.

if you are not excited by nintendo's offerings (that is, at this time, only potential), how can you consider yourself a gamer?

Sabre,

The DS is only dominating the PSP in Japan. They're about neck and neck in the US.

The man is talking some sense. Nintendo hasn't shown us anything that makes us believe that this controller will truly change the way we play. Instead, they just constantly tell us that it will and that they're too scared someone will steal their ideas.

Developers aren't braindead. They can't develop a game on the promise the controller will be awesome.

What makes something a "gimmick"? It seems like the word is just a synonym for "selling point" depending on which side of the fence you're on.

Did people call rumble feedback or a control stick a gimmick? Most likely; but now they're accepted as industry standards. If you consider Revolution's controller its "gimmick" then you should consider PS3's and 360's graphical enhancements as their respective "gimmicks".

@ Darth Pixel...what the f$@k ever. I agree that this clown made ONE good game. Why the hell should I care what he thinks. Did he use the Revmote yet? No.... Then he needs to fall back. If next gen isn't about comtrols then what is it about....graphics? No, it's a combination of things that are supposed to equal an overall better experience. But graphics are becoming a non-issue and all the current gen controllers do pretty much the same thing. This Takahashi jackass criticizes the Revmote as if the dual shock is the perfect controller. Bullshit. FPS are still suspect at best with a controller and real time or turn based strategy is still awkard with a controller.

DS is supposed to be a gimmick too. But I'm having so much fun and enjoyment out of it right now that I can't even entertain the though of playing a PSP. I just played Metroid Prime Hunters on the DS Lite and let me tell you. DS is no f$%king gimmick. I felt like I was in the dark ages going back to my DS. If Nintendo can do that with the DS then I can't understand why people still say the RevMote is a gimmick. We haven't even played with it yet....damn.

I'm not excited about nintendos upcomming revolution beacuse its not aimed at my demographic. There are plenty of original game designs out there waiting to be done, and its not cause no controller can support the gameplay.

What you get with the revolution controller is games designed around the controller. Sure there will be some fun things to do with it but thats what defines a gimmik, everything is designed around it. Once you exhaust the possibilities of the device (which im willingto bet is waaaaaaay more limited than any of you think) your going to be plugging your GC joystiq into your revolution and hoping for some gook Nintendo titles.

But since Nintendo hasn't released anything approaching innovative since this generation I'm doubting you will find anything. Not that I think anyone else or any other platform is going to be particularly innovative. The industry is being run by marketing and all games are suffering beacuse of it.

Heres to getting past marketing and spin and getting back into designs that inspire gamers. No gimmiks, just fun.

yeah I think that was the dumbest idea ever. The DS would have been perfect, but I guess money talks and Sony gave it out.

The DS isnt a gimmik, its a mouse. I think we can all appreciate mice.

I propose a homebrew genious renders us a katamari knock of for the DS, then when the time is right do the same for revolution. Then we can settle this particular issue.

"Repeat after me: "The new controller is a gimmick. It may ultimately benefit gameplay, but Nintendo should not bet the farm on it."" - Darth Pixel;

How did he get 3 stars? I wouldn't say betting the farm on this controller is Nintendo's only strategy. I'd point out that low prices, the virtual console, strong 1st party games and marketing to new untapped audiences carry a lot of wieght. Don't forget, we also don't know all the features of the system (I think it's a microphone).

I'd just like to point out that at one point videogames themeselves were gimmicks.
D-pads were gimmicks.
Rumble feedback was a gimmick.
FPS games were gimmicks.
Guitar Controllers were gimmicks (well they still are, but many gimmicks are too lovable to pass up).

When new standards are made they always start as gimmicks before they're accepted.

For pete's sake, the New World was a gimmick once.

true that Shagi but the two screens were criticized too. Mario Kart DS with two screens isn't a gimmick. Castlevania with a map and stat screen isn't a gimmick. Jump Superstars, Metroid, Tony Hawk, Animal Crossing, Kirby Canvas, Age of Empires, Advanced Wars, Bleach, Meteos....these games are gimmicks?... with dual screen, stylus and touch screen support?

argument one: "Sure there will be some fun things to do with it but thats what defines a gimmik, everything is designed around it."

as opposed to what? isn't every game designed around the players interaction with it. well, than your ps2's controller is a gimmick too.

argument two: "But since Nintendo hasn't released anything approaching innovative since this generation I'm doubting you will find anything"

developers have brought a slew of new gameplay ideas and concepts to the ds... not all of them rely on the touch interface, but they are entirely unique. im not sure what your definition of innovative is.

argument three: "Instead, they just constantly tell us that it will and that they're too scared someone will steal their ideas. Developers aren't braindead. They can't develop a game on the promise the controller will be awesome."

development kits have been dispatched. they are generating publicity. at this point, there is no possibility of the competition attempting something like this (they've already wasted their money on traditional verbose hardware upgrades). really,

"They can't develop a game on the promise the controller will be awesome."

You must have missed the numerous stories about developers that HAVE Revo SDKs and those developers that have PLAYED demos/games with the Revolution controller.

"The DS is only dominating the PSP in Japan. They're about neck and neck in the US."

The last numbers I saw for the US, they were neck-and-neck after the Christmas season but what are the numbers now? Overall though, the DS is beating the PSP up and down the block. I have a PSP and a DS Lite btw so don't even try the "have you played the PSP at all" thing.

Well, if your going to use one of your screens as a mouse then your going to need another visual landscape to display things on. I dont think of dual screens as being innovative in any sense other than providing more pixel realestate on a hand held portable device and keeping its form factor down. If you had bigger screens you could display all of the information on one screen. But beacuse you have the touch screen I think the dual screen evolved more out of necessity and flexibility than out of an 'innovative' deisgn idea.

@Shagi (5 & 32):

Noobs and kiddies, that's all Nintendo is about, right?

Well, do yourself a favor: just wait the release of the system, and try to test a few of the then acclaimed titles...

I'm sure the next Zelda will be on top of every list, so play that game, and then come back to talk about noobs and kiddies, fun and innovation... till then, your hating is meaningless: it will be seen by most as a lame gimmick...

Actually, the Katamari creator didn't have anything to do with the PSP sequel, and as I understand it, he was none to happy with them for making it. He apparently didn't even want them to make a sequel, but they told him they were going to do it anyway, so he made sure he was involved in that, because somehow he got convinced that there were things new he could do with it. But yeah, just clearing that up.

I agree with Shagi's "DS needed 2 screens out of necessity post" but severely disagree with his use of the word "gook" in post 32. Seriously man, WTF? Do you only play games made by white guys?

shagi, go back to your shitty endless pc fps games, and let the people who actually have some level of intelligence talk about the matter.

I disagree and agree at the same time. true the second screen came out of a need for more real estate but the innovation comes in how that real estate is used. I can pull off manuveuers in Metroid Prime hunters that you simply can't do on any other portable or console. Personally I can't be immersed in a game if my controls aren't up to par. DS's two screens give me that in a portble where I would need a gaming to get that otherwise.


I await the Revolution....

To 26:

Great point.

And seriously, people are kind of taking this discussion in the wrong direction. I don't remember anyone saying anything about Katamari, except referring to the creator's past exploits. Takahashi is just one of those people who thinks the controller is the only thing that's good about the Revolution.

And BESIDES that, has everyone forgot about the Classical-style shell? Not to mention the fact that games don't HAVE to take advantage of the motion sensing capabilities? I'm sure a simple game like Katamari would just use the Nanchaku peripheral and the D-pad on the Free Hand controller.

Seriously Takahashi, get your head in the game. Literally.

@ Shagi
"What you get with the revolution controller is games designed around the controller."

Then isn't every PS3 and 360 game a gimmick, too? 'Cause you can only play them by using a PS3 or 360 controller respectively. And the possibilites of those controls have been exhausted for quite some time now. But let us exhaust the ideas for the Revolution controller:

Flight stick
Steering Wheel
Football, basketball, air hockey paddle, baseball bat, punching gloves, hockey stick, golf club, etc.
Any item you can throw in Mario Kart
Sword
Shield
Gun
Grenade
Knife
Razor, shovel, clipper, anything else in Harvest Moon
Hookshot, Link or Lara's hands to grab, pull or push objects like crates
Fishing rod
Bow-and-arrow
Torch
The Crystal you carry in Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Joust
Flashlight
Open and close doors
Drumsticks
Guitar
Spell-casting wand, magic, summoning...
Dance Dance Revolution to rate your moves, not just your steps
Whip, Axe, etc. in Castlevania
Stir liguids, dice, chop, stir-fry, spatula...
Newspaper, ball, any toy in Nintendogs (and pet your dogs with it)
Fly swatter ala Mario Paint's flyswatter game
Paintbrush
Anything WarioWare wants you to do
Laser
Skateboard (flip to do combos, etc.)
Spiderman's web-slinging abilities
Piece of glass, crowbar, lead pipe, anything you can pick up in Silent Hill
Make Mario jump
Pen or other writing devices
The Wind-Waker baton / Musical baton
Lost In Blue items - spear, wood, flint, etc.
Mallet or hammer (Whac-a-mole!!)
Substitute for a mouse in an FPS, RTS, God game, etc.
Vacuum in Luigi's mansion
Spoon for eating or feeding (Sims, WarioWare, etc.)
Saw, chain saw, etc.
Rope or lasso
Marracas in Samba de Amigo
Your own hands to grab and turn a page, wave to someone, gesture your team of soldiers to hold or push forward
And because I could go on and on: ANYTHING YOU CAN PICK UP IN REAL LIFE.

And that's just with the Direct Pointing Device / Analog combo. We don't even know what other expansions will be made, and what other secrets Revolution holds. I've just shown 60+ examples, and that's just the beginning. Accessory companies are also interested in expansions rather than just cheaper versions of the controller. So think Red Octane, who teamed up with a game company to make Guitar Hero. Wait, but surely that's a gimmick - it's changing how we play games! I could've played guitar hero simply by pressing [], X, O, ^ L1 L2 R1 R2.

And everyone said NES was gonna fail, that the world didn't need something new. And now, everyone uses Nintendo's inventions as the standard in gaming. What will be your argument in 6-7 years when Sony and Microsoft follow Nintendo's change? Suddenly you won't be calling it a gimmick. Plain and simple - wait for E3. And if you don't get to go, then wait until it launches and you play it. Nintendo wants to show us what we've been missing - that there's many more ideas waiting to be discovered.

Now let's break those ideas up: over 70 ideas that I came up with in about 10 minutes. That's enough to last about 6-12 months. Even if games started using the same ideas, they would be fresh within that genre or franchise. So let's say 140 games come out in the first year - that's each idea repeated only once. And within that year, you have new expansions, new franchises that are born, and new ideas. And once all the dieas have been exhausted, they create a new expansion to give life to another 140 games.

And remember- Miayamoto has always stated that games don;t have to use every feature of the DS to be a great game. These are simply tools developers can use. The same is true for Revolution. The possibilities are only limited to a developers creativity and imagination, which I hope expand much farthr than your own. Just because it's different, you say there's no way it can play games better. So stick to your button-pushing. But I personally don't push a button in real life to throw a punch. You want realism in games? Revolution's got it.

And whatever PS3 or 260 can do, Revolution can do with its classic-style expansion. But whatever Revolution does uniquely, the other 2 can't immitate. And before you say there's nothing wrong with current controllers, first remember who got it to that state, then remember that even Microsoft and Rockstar have complimented the DP Device. And there's nothing wrong with change. I for one am tired of the same old war game or GTA clone coming out every other week.

And to the guy that said it's not targeting his demographic, what would that be? Nintendo's targeted audience is the same as DS - everyone, from kids, teens, adults, grandparents, females, males, beginners, casual gamers, hardcore gamers... You've got online play, 20 years of backwards-compatible content spanning 6 consoles, plus a DVD player. The ideas I listed above can be used in all types of genres, and a wide selection have already been confirmed or hinted at by developers. They range from WarioWare-type games to mature gothic horror games. Or is it 'cause they haven't announced 50 Cent 2: Another Awesome Hit? 'Cause we need more games like *that.*

Come on guys are you serious??? Graphics are becoming a non-issue? Look at Fight Night and Ghost Recon for the 360, graphics that actually enhance gameplay. Those are only the first wave of 360 games and they look that amazing, the Revolution may never get games that look as good as the 360's launch titles..... And thats something you should really think about before you start praising a controller nobody has even touched.

As for my earlier statement. Since when does a controller make a console next-gen? So, when does it?

Let me paint another picture for you. Lets say Sony and Microsoft decide to release the same type of controller only slightly different as to not interferre with whatever patents Nintendo filed. Then the 360 and PS3 get ports of all the Revolutions third party games. Only with much more improved graphics, HD, etc.

So now let me repeat myself. Since when does a controller make a console next gen?

@46...Amen to that! lol