Gamer feels cheated by FFXI's sneaky hidden fees [update 1]
by Vladimir Cole 
{ Apr 22nd 2006 at 11:00AM }
Davis Freeberg wrote to Joystiq to let us know that he feels ripped off by the lack of
disclosure about the fees required to play Final Fantasy XI for the Xbox 360.
Though experienced PC MMOG players and other hardcore gamers know that games of this type typically include monthly fees, Freeberg appears to be more typical of console gamers. He expected to be able to buy the game, pop it in, and start playing. Instead, he was required to spend hours installing the game and registering for a separate online service before he was told that the game would cost $12.95 per month plus an additional $1.00 per month per character (beyond the first) he created.
Deceitful marketing or clumsy mistake? Click "continue" below to see what we found.
Here's what we found:
- The installation process for the game is, by all accounts, clunky and unfriendly. You might be able to get away with that on the PS2, which doesn't have a unified, easy-to-use online service, but it's shameful to allow the same to happen on the 360 which has won kudos for being user friendly.
- Requiring consumers to complete an hours-long installation process before fees are spelled out is shady and manipulative. Researchers have demonstrated that large sunk costs (of time or of money) increase the likelihood that individuals will continue to pay for small incremental charges that occur later. Final Fantasy XI's install process seems to prey on this common psychological vulnerability: the upfront cost of the game ($50 plus tax/shipping) is followed by a large time investment (the hours-long install process). By the time the $13.95 minimum monthly fee is disclosed, many gamers may feel that they may as well follow through after such large investments of time and money.
- Fee disclosure should happen up front, at the retail level. None of the following retailers we checked disclose the fact that this game will cost more than $12.95 per month. We checked Amazon.com, Target.com, Gamestop.com, Outpost.com, Costco.com, and Walmart.com.
Meanwhile, other MMOG-type games do disclose their monthly fees.
The Amazon.com product description for Everquest II includes an explicit statement: "Note: This game requires an Internet connection and charges a monthly fee payable by credit card or pre-paid game card (sold separately)." World of Warcraft's product description also includes a clear statement to this effect: "A monthly subscription fee is required to play online."
Why are these fees never disclosed for Final Fantasy XI? How are parents supposed to make good purchasing decisions if game retailers and marketers aren't honest about the full cost of the products that they're selling?
[Update 1: Fixed some ambiguous language around the fees. Also, would like to point out here
that most reader comments simply confirm the fact that our readers are quite informed about the costs of MMOGs. The
point is that the general public -- who don't read Joystiq -- are not quite so up-to-date on game fee structures, and
shouldn't have to be.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Kid Chemical @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:19AM
Sounds like he didn't do his research.
With all the resources at a gamer's finger tips, why would you buy something blindly? Or assume that SE would someone give Xbox owners a free pass this time?
Was he living under a rock for the last 2 and a half years and never heard of SE charging a monthly fee for FFXI?
dan @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:22AM
whatever everyone knows this was a MMO with a fee. it was out in the previous generation and thats what it was like. consumers should do research into things before purchasing. Theres a sucker born every minute i guess that doesnt want to bother looking into things they buy.
And for video games its inexcusible, all over the web there are reviews/previews and info about this game. so maybe the average consumer may not read these, or know about it. Im sure somewhere on the game box it talks about the fee. Maybe not on the internet stores. but if you use the internet stores u should be smart enough to reseach stuff on the internet.
Repsode @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:23AM
Personally, I feel there is nothing to whinge about here. The game has had this pricing structure for four years now and is quite clearly mentioned in the manual.(He did read it, right?)
Besides, if you're going to play a game that requires a great committment from the player in both time and money, don't you think you should research it first?
Why don't you go on to gaming forums or faqs to find this info.
Going into a MMO blind like this guy is dumb.
dsub @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:25AM
my opinion? Every gamer out there knows MMO's have a pay-to-play monthly fee. I feel no pity for this man.
While I do agree that the monthly fee should have been addressed, I still say that this is common knowledge. I have numerous friends that don't even own consoles that know that MMO games cost money to play.
My advice? Don't want to pay it? Take it back. Make sure to show them that no where on the packaging does it say a monthly fee is required, and let the clerk know that this wasn't addressed before hand. They pretty much have to give you a refund at that point I would assume. Otherwise...just pay the fee.
Either way, I don't see the need to have typed a 3 1/2 page essay about why you feel cheated. That's just whining. I mean, this guy goes as far as to blame microsoft for his troubles. What did they do? I realize he said me mostly blames Square Enix, but dude, you gotta take some responsibility.
jayntampa @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:27AM
That's ridiculous -- people shouldn't have to do that kind of research. Consoles are for more casual gamers. It's funny how we all want gaming to be mainstream, but have expectation that everyone has in-depth knowledge.
I was completely dismayed by the beta of FFXI -- the whole situation was ridiculous -- and, yes, fees should be mentioned up front. It takes HOURS to install the game ... seriously, HOURS.
jayntampa @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:31AM
Wait, wait ... he should know it's for pay because he read the manual? But ... once you pay $60 for the game, open it, and read the manual -- YOU CAN'T RETURN THE GAME! It's too late.
And casual gamers DON'T even know what a MMORPG is and that it may have a monthly fee (Guild Wars doesn't). You have to remember, only a small minority of people have ever played for-pay games. And, it's unexpected on a console from a series that has never been that way previously.
Shabam @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:31AM
Boo hoo Davis Freeberg! If you can afford a 360 you can probably afford the 12.95 a month. A very large majority of MMOG's require a seperate monthly fee, you should have known that much. Go play some Guild Wars buddy!
Miharu @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:32AM
The fact that Final Fantasy XI requires you to pay extra for characters and that card game is just rubbish. And they should clearly state how much the game costs in the back of the case. But also about the blogger, I didn't think anyone didn't know the game had a monthly fee...
CapAmerica @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:32AM
Besides Guild Wars every single bloody MMORPG has had a monthly fee. And its not like this is a new game The PS2 and PC versions have been out for a long time.
The PS2 AND PC users had the exact same issues, and the Xbox360 version was just a direct port of the PC version.
I don't feel at all sorry for him, he's just plain dumb.
Welcome to the world of MMO's, Now please get out your getting stupid all over the place.
Keter Tip @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:36AM
Can someone tell me why it takes 'HOURS' to install this game? I guess this would make a horrible rental game.
And, yes they should have put the fee structure in very bright lettering ... it doesn't matter if 99% of the population is already aware of the fee structure, for monetary things like this you need to be very explicit and assume that people are idiots. Not everyone is a fanboy with hours to do research, there'll be (for example) moms who will see this on the store shelves and buy it right then for their child.
Jason w @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:42AM
It says it on the bok that "additional fees are required for online play" and you must also have xbox live to play it online. This guy should have played the beta like I did and decided to not buy the game in the first place. Im a true xbox gammer, I hate these mmorpgs. The beta was enough for me.
scott @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:42AM
n00b : (noun) See Davis Freeburg.
soco @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:45AM
since not all MMOs have online fees, i don't particularly fault him for not obsessing on gaming news sites everywhere. it should've been detailed on the sites, if it wasn't. if it was, then it's his fault.
Amazon spells this out for the tivo, so it only makes sense.
HeistGoneWrong @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:46AM
It's funny to see all these Final Fantasy fanboys give this guy a hard time while they're probably sitting at their mom and dad's computer, not paying for internet, not paying for anything. I for one, live in the real world. When the demo came out in OXM, and I played it, had I actually liked the game and bought it I'd be pissed too if I found out it's first of all charging more than I already pay for Xbox Live, for a game that's been out for 4 years already.
LongshotX @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:49AM
Square just wanted to put a bullshit ass game on the 360 without even trying. It isn't next gen and it is quite frankly the worst final fantasy in the series. Their basically saying yeah you buy our bullshit game for your 360 or you could help Mother Sony and buy a PS3 so you can play FF25. Fuck Square.
mopper @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:50AM
i dont even play MMO's and i dont even own ff11 or plan on buying it but i was well aware of the monthly fee. its common sense and yea it says so on the box.
The1 @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:53AM
I went through the hour long install on the DEMO and I knew I would never do this again. MS and Square could have devised a better install. As far as disclosing the fee, I agree with the author. All fees should be disclosed up front; even though most MMO have monthly fees. What if a parent bought this game thinking their child would be able to play right out the box. Humm, someone would be screwed.........
Reddrive @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:56AM
#10 ... you can't rent it, or sell it. Once you install it the CD key won't allow you to install it anywhere else. If you bought it, opened it, you are stuck with it. As for the installation, the demo took about 2.5-3 hours just to get into the game. The text was small at times and hard to read.
The subject has a small point. The box should indicate that this game requires XBOX Live and additional fees. Parents and nongamers buying gifts for others need this information. Now, given you could ask a clerk at a game store and eventually get the correct answer most people don't like to profess their ignorance. I feel that at the price point SE could afford to throw customers a free month and first character free.
Dan @ Apr 22nd 2006 11:59AM
Maybe this guy should have known sure but not everyone who picks up this game in the store is going to know that there's a fee attached. Parents might not have a clue if their kid doesn't tell them. People just getting into gaming might be unaware how these things work as well. Even if you knew there was a fee, wouldn't you like to know up front how much it's going to be exactly so you can decide if you can budget it?
Hurley @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:04PM
The difference between this game and other MMO games is that this is a Final Fantasy game for a console. I'm sure plenty of unknowing soccer moms will notice their son's collection of Final Fantasy games, see this "new" one, and pick it up for a birthday present or something.
The word "online" is almost the smallest word on the front of the box, and most Xbox games are online in some fashion. I agree that anyone who reads this site would know that this game has a fee. Congratulations to you, you're a hardcore gamer. Final Fantasy games sell millions of copies, many of which will end up in the hands of the unwashed masses.
If the $12.95 monthly fee is not directly stated on the box this is unethical.
Wraith @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:05PM
Clarification: $12.95 (+tax) per month covers the game and your first character. It's $1.00 (+tax) per month for each additional character, after your first.
And unlike most MMORPGs, your character in FFXI can play any job in the game. Yes, the race you selected affects your character's base ability at various jobs, but you have the option to play any jobs you want.
Also, most MMORPGs charge a flat $14.95 fee. So you can play FFXI with 3 characters, who can each play any job in the game, for the same price. It isn't that unreasonable.
As for the long registration/install/update process, this is an issue for MMORPGs in general. If he'd gone out and bought WoW, he'd be waiting a heckuva long time for updates too.
A few of his gripes about the game are legitimate, but that's how it goes. I'm not sure why "Guy buys new game, doesn't like it" deserves headlines anywhere.
Bxfresh01 @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:08PM
I don't think some of you know, but it says in the back of the game case that the game requires a monthly subscription to play, I guess Joystiq "neglected" to inform you guys. And for the case of the online game stores not telling you it requires a monthly subscription, wouldn't that be the store's responsibility? Besides everything now and days has a official site, espically a MMORPG, so why didn't he google search Final Fantasy XI? I bet playonline.com woulld've been the first entry there, I don't think this man was ripped off, if anything he doesn't have any common sense to know if you buy something over the net then why don't you use the very same tool to research the product......
Wraith @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:13PM
#20 (Hurley): On my box (this is the PC version though) it says: "Users are responsible for all applicable Internet and subscription fees. A valid credit card is required to set up account." That's a pretty clear indicator that you have to pay for something.
And they don't print the exact price on the box because it's possible that the fees could change. They haven't changed, in 2.5 years since the U.S. release, but they don't want a bunch of printed material saying $12.95 if that price was no longer valid.
Exo @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:14PM
You dont need xbox live to play it, because the game itself has a montlhy fee and works off of squares servers, and has nothing to do with microsoft.
vc @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:17PM
Guys who are pointing out that the physical box indicates that some sort of fee might be involved are missing the point. We checked Amazon.com, Target.com, Gamestop.com, Outpost.com, Costco.com, and Walmart.com.
None of them say a damned thing about extra fees required to play the game.
Furthermore, the physical box needs to be EXPLICIT about fees. The way it's worded, many consumers will believe that it's talking about the Xbox Live service and will think to themselves, "Oh, I already have that."
Chalex @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:17PM
If you looked at the picture posted with this story, you would see a rather large block of text in the upper left hand corner right under the Xbox logo.
The text reads as follows:
This game requires:
Hard Drive (sold seperatly)
Additional monthly fee
Broadband connection
As well as having the text "monthly fee" or "paid subscription" three more times on the back.
I do not pity this fool.
b-man @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:18PM
Wow,
You guys are brutal. "Everyone knows the MMORPGs have monthly fees". ummm, cleary you're wrong about this. This guy has a valid point. Everyone here is obvious online and capable of checking out these sorts of things. But that does mean every soccor mom (who often buy games for younger gamers) knows about it. Reddrive had the right idea.
striderhayasa @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:20PM
FFXI issues? Bah! Play a better MMORPG. Play WoW instead.
Stephen @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:28PM
and yea it says so on the box.
That doesn't mean a thing if he bought the game online. The article doesn't say where Freeberg got the game, but points out that none of the online retailers visited note the online fee. Nobody buying from Amazon.com or Gamestop.com would have a chance to read the box. Not everybody is a video game fanboy ; monetary committments should be noted up front, not hidden from a web site and buried after an hours-long installation process.
HeistGoneWrong @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:31PM
Well, it seems American's are just greedy bastards, because it says on the futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca (but not bestbuy.com) site:
"Please Note: A $12.95 USD monthly fee is required to play the game whether you are a Gold or Silver Live member."
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10073419
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10073419
Zack @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:33PM
Sure, "everyone" knows it's an MMO and should require a monthly fee, but the fact that it doesn't say anything makes it more than ridiculous on Square Enix's part. I mean, when I heard it being announced, I thought/hoped it'd be free on the 360 (considering you're already paying for the servers that Microsoft provides) and I'm sure many others did, too. The fact that they don't even mention it is quite manipulative indeed.
bomberman447 @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:38PM
It is not really sneaky. Everyone knows that MMO's arn't free. People knew that PSO wasn't free on the original Xbox, and it states on the package about the monthly fee. He just didn't the package.
MegaTroopX @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:43PM
So you have to have Live and pay Square too? That kinda sucks.
Norman Canseco @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:47PM
While I agree that most times the fees are convoluted with the tiny print on the box, most times MMORPG's have a clearly defined listing saying additional fees required. This is a clear indicator of the consumers not reading and rushing to open their game. Parent's can not depend on retailers for information in this day and age because like most businesses, they are hiring people who can sell not people who are knowledgable. Just like all things if you want it done right you have to do it yourself. If you don't feel like doing the research then look on the gazillion gaming sites or the official site but just writing a letter won't cut it anymore. It just shows that you lost to the retail and the gaming industry.
They claim another victim because of our need for quick and easy.
JimmyHACK @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:47PM
Tell this guy when he is finished suckling his mom's tit to go read before he buys something..
Wraith @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:53PM
No, you don't need Live Gold to play. Live Silver (free) is enough for FFXI.
As to casual gamers not knowing about fees for MMOs, maybe Square was supposed to put out an NBC-style "The More You Know" campaign. "When you play an MMO, you may have to pay a monthly fee. Be sure to check the box! *The More You Know!*"
Rjcc @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:58PM
If you know there is a fee, and it is clearly stated on the box.
Why wouldn't you check to see how much it is?
Why would they print the fee on the box? If it changes later, they have to change the packaging? It doesn't make sense. MMO boxes never disclose the exact fee. If the retailer doesn't disclose the fee, that is the retailers fault. Davis admittid that he bought the game without EVER reading a preview or review of the game.
He bought a three year old game without even finding out that it was online-only.
That's like buying GT and being surprised it's not GTA. He should be ashamed of himself.
ncxcstud @ Apr 22nd 2006 12:58PM
to #31
You only need XBOX Live Silver to play MMOs over XBOX Live. So, you only pay for Square's Play Online service, you don't have to pay for XBOX Live in order to play it.
RyKn0w1 @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:00PM
i figured the sticker on front of the package saying there is a free 30 day trial MIGHT kind of indicate it wont always be free...therefore there would be a monthly charge ...it is no ones fault but his own!
TC @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:01PM
Not for nothing but if something requires additional fees beyond the purchase price for it to work, it needs to be in the biggest, fattest, boldest letters so that the dopiest of dopes don't get confused. A little wee tag in some corner doesn't cut it.
Curagea @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:06PM
I hate to bash Freeberg, but he isn't a very good shopper.
- He sold his PS2 for an Xbox, because he bought into the hype. *first siren*
- He waited for FFXI desperately, without looking up reviews and previews, because he thought they would spoil the story. *second siren*
- He bought it, still without looking up review and previews. *CODE ALERT*
WARNING: Above symptoms indicate impulse-buying.
I sympathize with Freeberg in that he's a casual gamer and doesn't know as much as "hardcore" gamers do. However, even as a casual gamer, he should have some sense about being a consumer in general. If something costs a lot of money, and $50 IS quite a bit, common sense should tell you to research before making a purchase. You can go ahead and buy clothing without researching beforehand because there's dressing rooms for you to try them. But for products that can't be tested with your hands, you have to do research. Read reviews (and the majority of reviews don't spoil the story). This applies not just to games, but to electronics and many other things.
Also, the box clearly states that the game requires Xbox Live and a monthly fee, and on another corner of it states the words "online only". Even if a sticker was slapped onto one of these texts (as Freeberg claimed), the other text should still be visible. "Online only" itself rings "possible monthly fee", and Freeberg should know that not everything online is free (because he used Gamefly before, a suscription-based service).
Sorry, Freeberg. I understand you're not exactly a hardcore gamer, but please, don't be like my mom (who buys snacks at the dollar store because, well, "they're a dollar!" and the food tastes like crap). Have some common consumer sense.
God help this man if he bought a Gizmondo because of whatever hype it had oh-so-long-ago.
DjHyjak @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:10PM
This is the problem with gaming, Fanboys want to treat everyone like they are Fanboys. The wording is not clear hell it wasnt that clear when the game came out for the PS2. I got the PS2 copy from my mother in law who thought she was being nice. She went with us to see the Movie and when ahe saw the game in best buy she picked it up. My wife told her later that we didnt buy it because of the packed on cost (the game + the harddrive + the fee) I was lucky i could resell the copy to a coworker. Imagin if you will you are a parent who is a casual gamer you know of X box live because you pay that bill every month, you know about final fantasy because your preteen has been talkin about it and has been hounding you for this Advent children thing. You go to the store you see the game for the brand new system you droped big bucks for and you pick it up. Now here is where all these problems can be solved if you look on the box and saw in big read letters Requires X box Live and additional Online fees ask retailer for details. This is just a simple sentence added to the box on the front and back in clear bold text. It does not cost more and it informs. This kind of customer care is great for retention it build brand loyalty and trust. You fanboys need to get off your high horses and remeber that it the New and Casual Gamers that will keep gaming around. (Oh yeah i bet Nintendo wouldnt have allowed this to happen to its buyers)
Rjcc @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:17PM
Another interesting note is that amazon.co.uk does clearly state the fee.
bestbuy.com clearly states a fee is required.
Simple fact, if he had purchased WoW without reading the box, he would have the same experience.
If he bought Asherons Call II and found out the servers were shut down who would he blame?
KirbyMeister @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:28PM
Anyone notice the FFXI box looks like Apple's OS packaging?
Charles Garcia @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:32PM
The only time I played FFXI is when I got it free thanks to beta testing it on PS2. Actually come to think of it I only played it during beta test then did nothing with it after that. It really wasn't very good... Of course I have yet to play a MMORPG I like. The only one I kind of liked was Phantasy Star Online. I would probably play Guild Wars because I don't have to pay a monthly fee. I still believe there should be no base cost on an MMORPG, just a monthly fees. I don't think it is fair you get hit twice.
K MAN @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:33PM
whatever.
not all MMOs require a fee. think Battlefield 2.
you might think MMORPGs require a fee. but simply not true. what about Lineage.
Battlefield 2 has been free after you buy the software, and i must say that it is the best game i've ever played.
lineage 2 doesn't cost a penny, and it has the second largest userbase.
that one dude @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:35PM
"If something requires additional fees beyond the purchase price for it to work, it needs to be in the biggest, fattest, boldest letters so that the dopiest of dopes don't get confused. A little wee tag in some corner doesn't cut it." - TC
Welcome to the world of advertising. If you look around you'll see that not everybody puts things in "bold, fat letters." Watch a car commercial and notice the "small wee tag in some corner" about certain things they "skip over."
Bill Baker @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:42PM
I personally hate Madden games, someone please post a Madden story so I can offer my opinions.
Honestly, just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it needs to be shared. Have we all lost our concept of relevance?
OM @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:43PM
If you're stupid enough to not assume you're going to have to pay montly fees for a MMORPG, then you deserved to be ripped-off.
The ZeroCorpse @ Apr 22nd 2006 1:44PM
A couple reasons why I hate Square Enix and their choices with this product:
It's not called "Final Fantasy Online" or "Final Fantasy MMORPG." It's called "Final Fantasy XI" which would indicate it's the next episode in a series that- until now- was not online and did not require fans to pay monthly fees. Wouldn't you be ticked off if you bought -oh, let's say Gran Turismo VI- and discovered that in order to play the game AT ALL you had to pay Sony another $13 a month? It's the fact that they labeled this as a SEQUEL that makes it shady. World of Warcraft isn't called "Warcraft IV" is it?
The install process is ridiculous considering how nicely integrated the whole Xbox Live experience is. There's no excuse for this.
Seriously. Why did they name it as the next in a series rather than making it clear in the title that this is NOT a single-player Japanese role-playing game, but a rip-off of Everquest that is EXCLUSIVELY online? A small message in the corner doesn't help when a deluded FF fan just sees "FINAL FANTASY XI" and thinks "Wow. I loved the last 10 Final Fantasy games, despite the fact that they were sucky Japanese rpg-style games! This one should be more of the same cinema-filled, low-interaction gameplay that I love about FF games! I'm buying it! Woooo!"
Anybody who gets ganked by Square Enix on this deserves it for being a fan of that craptastic Japanese cinema-laden style. Buy OBLIVION and play a real RPG you dorks!