Gamer feels cheated by FFXI's sneaky hidden fees [update 1]

By the logic of freeburg and some lazy supporters, the following should be general practice:

1) Every electronice device should boldly display the CURRENT cost of batteries. If Energizer or Duracell changes their prices, every retailer MUST change all the labels are ALL the battery packages they sell.

2) All computer, modem, and networking card manufacturers must BOLDLY display the CURRENT cost of Internet access from all ISPs on every package, add, and online site which MAY sell their product.

3) Car companies must now BOLDLY display the current cost of gas and replacement parts on any car or document advertising that car.

4) All realtors must display the cost of utilities in any neighborhood in which they are selling homes and displays those costs on every side the house...in capital letters.

5) Pet sellers will now be mandated to display BOLDLY on every pet they sell (preferably by fitting them with a big, pink sweater) how much food it will take to feed the pet. They must get prices from all brands of pet food and consult doctors to project how big the pets will grow and how much food they will eat.

6) Any local store that sells these products must keep these postings current even though all these future funds don't go to them.

7) Energizer, Comcast, AOL, you local power and water companies, and whoever sells pet food must be held responsible if the person who sold you any of these products gets prices wrong. As such, they must offer you a refund or pay you the difference for your inconvenience.


Just grow up and admit SE did nothing short of standard....for ANY industry. It's you that is short of standard.

You're like all the parents complaining that the gaming industry didn't call them personally to warn them that the game they bought their child was violent.

It's the Producers right to use THEIR box to promote THEIR product. It's their responsiblity to let you know there will be additional costs, but it is NOT there responsibility to waist half their box warning of everything you might not like.

That's what reviews, research, and personal responsibility is for.

Look at the bright side. I doubt you will make this mistake again. Isn't learning fun?

John Lucas

do you have the right person? you flame me in the post
as "jackass Jay" when I actually DEFEND you and Davis.

my point is/was that a console game is different from PC games so everyone saying "of course that's the case, it's an MMORPG, n00b" is out of line...yeah, it's the 'norm' for PC gaming, not for consoles

and for all the "read the box" comments, if you buy online, you can't read the box

and for that, I get the flamed-out comments but not the 1000's of comments like 'read the #$@$@ box'

ugh....and we've said a MILLION times now...

The description posted on online sites is NOT under SE's control. That's up to the COMPLETE descretion of the site! So don't blame SE for that.

Secondly...you can return a game if it's not opened.

So you can STILL read the box if you're too lazy to do any research........noob.

I find it funny how Mr. John Lucas uses all these pictures to defend your arguement when you prove that SE did nothing wrong. All those games tell you that you require a special device or connection. The same with The FFXI box. But notice how NONE of them lists the costs of those devices or connections. This is the point trying to be made by those people preaching buyer awareness. The companies are in the right for telling you that you need something but to but a firm price on a sticker or label and then to change it later would hold each company responsible. The only thing I agree with Mr. Freeburg about is the fact that the monthly fee's aren't listed on retailers sites. It would be nice of them to add it but this isn't MS or SE's fault. And it is really amazing that many "console" game players are trying to justify thier "responsibilities" by saying I am not a Fanboy.
So you need to be a fanboy to look the product up on google? How about ask someone else who has the game? What about asking the retailers themselves? Since you are saavy enough to make it to joystiq why don't you go to a forum and ask? But nevermind, these tasks are too exhausting. It is better to prove that SE and MS ar being decietful that you need to play FFXI:online "online" and there are fees involved.

Console MMOs are still rare, but becoming less so. PlayOnline Viewer is used for 6 Square Enix online games currently, though 4 don't have non-Japanese releases yet. It's a centralized service for them to connect all of their online games and disseminate news about them, while allowing people to have a common friend list between the games. The service has been open since 2002, and was designed to be independent of any specific platform. Live is specific to Microsoft platforms, and so it shouldn't be expected that a multi-platform game would conform to its policies, especially when they have a universal system already in place to handle the multiplatform aspects of the game.

Other console MMOs with monthly fees are:

Front Mission Online
Nobunaga's Ambition Online
possibly Final Fantasy VII Dirge of Cerberus, and the new .hack online game.

The MMO games require complete installation because it is the nature of MMOs for new content to be added, or old content to be patched. Feasibly, every file in the game could eventually be patched, so every file needs to be stored on rewritable media, and console memory cards are too slow and small in capacity for that role.

MMOs aren't that much of a ripoff to pay a monthly fee for because people that play them tend to almost exclusively play them and not buy other games while they are active with an MMO. If a company released a free MMO that regularly got new content, there'd be no profit in it, because many players would just sign up for the game and keep playing for the thousands of hours those games provide, and end up not buying normal games from that company or any other company. With the behaviour of a normal MMO player, game companies still make money from that player, but the player ends up spending less in a year on games than the average console gamer. There is a place for the business model here, and it could be worse. Most online PS2 games in Japan have a monthly fee per game, without there being an equivalent to Xbox Live. Sony left it up to each and every developer to decide what to charge and how to implement online play on their console, just like t he PC online game model has been for years. SNK charges 900-some yen per month for an online service that only works for a few of their games. Capcom charged about 500 yen per month for each Biohazard Outbreak game to play online, and one of their online fighting games. Hudson charged about 500 yen per month for Bomberman Online. Namco ran Pop'n Taisen Puzzle-dama Online for free, but shut down the servers after around a year. SCEI charged about 500 yen per month for Minna no Golf Online, before shutting down the servers in 2005. America has it relatively better off for how console games have online fees here, but at the cost of some games not having online modes intact when they are localized and released in our region.

As for the FFXI fee, it is marked on the official site, as shown with some links in the blog, near the end. It's also been in major press announcements about the game around every release it's had. Heck, I can't go 3 days on any message board about the game without seeing someone post a thread asking how much it is per month, even though Google returns the answer in the first 3 results when inputting "ffxi monthly fee".

Someone mentioned FFXI's fee hasn't increased yet. In my experience (having an account from the Japanese release), it has slightly. It was 1200-some yen when the game first came out, and now my basic content ID is just over 1300 yen per month. It may have been a change in the taxes applied to purchases in Japan, as I never really noticed the increase with the exchange rate varying every month anyway, but the fee has changed slightly. I agree that there shouldn't be a problem marking it on the box, but the consumer should still see that it says there is a fee, ans ask themselves how much the fee should be and do research on it before committing to the purchase.

Do your research is such a laime comment....gahh.
#201 It just amazes me.. the nonsense people post.
I mean wtf are you talkin about,you cant compare this to Energizer or Duracell, and stuff like that.
You see is not the price problem,but hiden costs,even if there is some micro print on the box thats still bull.
Again you should have done your research comment is bull.This is a console game, not a PC game, where you actually have to do a resarch,since you dont just put the CD into the comp and play but you have to install,know if your hardware can run it and so on.
Now I see this game has to be installed on your hard drive as well,and this is something very new to console gaming,and not everybody owns a 360 with a hard drive so that should be clearly stated as well,I guess it is.
Now when you buy Energizer batteries in store you own those batteries no matter how much they suck you got nothing else to pay.
But you see in this case you just bought a game but you cant play it because that money you spent is just a part of the bill that you was not aware of.
I visit gaming sites almost every day and I dont know shit about Final Fantazy games.I see Final Fantazy games geting released and see even some pictures,as well check out the score than laugh about it.Because common is not a video game but more like a video-book-story with crappy game play,well thats my opinion,lol, at least until the fights in the game are in realtime..
Anyway Square is clearly trickin 360 gamers into buying this game,even if they see is an online game they think is covered with live,which isnt.
Square could easly have added big flashy letters on the box saying something like:
Only (what) $13 a month...or whatever, Im sure you need a character,lol.
Now if that sounds cheap to you,OK...not to me, not a game like this.
Square knows it and is trying to chash on it otherwise they would state it upfront,fishing is fun,right,lol.
Many companies use the fine print to clarify the purchase,but we all know why the fine print is there.Not to inform us but to make us overlook some things that might change our mind,and when you find out about it you see its there,and the company is immune to your lawyer.
Now this might not be the case with this game cuz Im not sure,Im just trying to say I dislike fine print in any case.Square should be more clear about this so morons like me dont fall for its tricks,lol.

Here in Cambridge, England, the games shops I've been into have big signs on the counter alerting customers to the fact that there is a monthly fee for FFXI. I don't know if that's the norm or the exception, but it shows that not everyone's trying to hide it, at least.

There is a sticker on the front of all of these covers that 'THIS GAME INCLUDES A FREE 30-DAY TRIAL.' If you didn't see that in the display case, that's your own fault. However, I know online retailers don't always have that sticker scanned in on the front cover. It is mentioned on the boxes, though, that this game is subject to a monthly fee outside of ISP fees and XBox Live fees.

Well if you ask me. THIS game sucks. I've played it on ps2 aswell as PC. if you dont have a grup of friends that are going to play it with you its point less and will take forever to lvl up. soling is a good thing in MMOs if you ask me. they just make you to damn weak to fight monsters that saposedly apear to be your strangth lvl etc. say you want to lvl up and you are lvl 16 well ether fight stupid monsters intel your croch rots of or stand there and wait for a party the rest of the night and when you have to go to sleep for work school LIFE etc. you get a party and have to leave. so all and all yeah this could be a grate game. but they just make you party to lvl so it sucks. yes being able to use all the jobs. note you must unlock most of the cool ones like summoner blue mage ninja dark knight paladan and others you have to be lvl 30 to even unlock them witch is inposable to solo to. so I give this game a BIG THUMBS DOWN. wast of time and money. ;P

Clunky and not user friendly? Sorry, but you're installing to a system with inferior reading and writing hardware. Not to mention that that's just it -- you're installing. In any software, if you're installing gigs of information, it's going to take time. And wtf, not user friendly? So what, does "user friendly" these days mean "hold your hand through the entire process"? How hard a concept is this to grasp? Wow, you install it, put in a few registration keys and your credit card. I don't see how that's not user friendly.

Do the gaming industry a favor people, and tell Square to f*** themselves w/the craptastic FF series. 11 games, of which maybe four were worth a damn. Game content in the way of character depth and storyline SUCK to put it mildly. That, ands its not as though they have introduced some revolutionary system, method or idea to the RPG genre. Its badly translated crap, at best. I agree w/a prior poster: GO BUY OBLIVION! Enjoy open ended free form RPGing at its graphical best. I suggest visiting Bethesda Software's site and checking out all info on the game and gameplay via XbOX 360 before jumping into Oblivion though.

Meez, shut it. Wanna know why Square games have been lacking lately? Take a look at Final Fantasy VIII. A fantastic game, shunned by fans because it was something new, and not exactly like FFVII. Also, if you only say four were worth it -- then you've probably only played four of them. I'm no FF fanboy, but even FFX was GOOD, not GREAT, not AWFUL, but GOOD. Also, FFXI is by far the best MMO out there, with a fantastic storyline YOU participate in, as opposed to the shitty "lore" of Everquest and WoW. People complain about stupid things in it, like exp loss upon death, long level grind, etc. Poor saps spoiled by the shitfest that is WoW.

Oh, and why would you want to play Oblivion? I don't see why such a shitty game is so popular... It's basically an offline MMO. Boring as shit.

quote: 213. Oh, and why would you want to play Oblivion? I don't see why such a shitty game is so popular... It's basically an offline MMO. Boring as shit.

Yeah who the hell would want a free form MMO style rpg with-out all of the a$$hats that are crawling all over their servers?

Who would want a free form rpg that doesnt make your character dependant on other people in order to level beyond a certain point?

Who would want an rpg that visually stomps just about any MMO/console RPG out there?

Who the hell would want the freedom of non-linear gameplay, where you do what you want...when you want?

What RPG fan would want any of those on a console?

LoL *rolls eyes*

QUOTE: 212
Take a look at Final Fantasy VIII. A fantastic game, shunned by fans because it was something new, and not exactly like FFVII.

[1)Shunned by the fans would suggest that a majority of those that purchased the game, didnt like it.
2)Logic dictates that a large number of those people were fans of the FF series and or name of games. Fans of any series are going to be biased in a positive way toward that series or title, and give it the benefit of the doubt/more of a chance than non-fans.

Given that most/many who played and or bought the game "shunned" it, fan and non-fan alike. I'd say that both numbers and logic say that it was a crappy game. Sorry, a craptastic poorly translated piece of RPG gaming placed in a very pretty package.

"Yeah who the hell would want a free form MMO style rpg with-out all of the a$$hats that are crawling all over their servers?"

Too bad that there are pleny of players who aren't asshats, who I frequently group with every night.

"Who would want a free form rpg that doesnt make your character dependant on other people in order to level beyond a certain point?"

Waah, who cares? Are you that insecure about interacting with people on online games? If I wanted free form, I'd play GTA, not a MMO imitation where I just run around on a huge world with crappy combat and nothing to do, really.

"Who would want an rpg that visually stomps just about any MMO/console RPG out there?"

zomg grafx r everythin!!!1 That's the problem with you kids these days.

"Who the hell would want the freedom of non-linear gameplay, where you do what you want...when you want?"

Non-linear gameplay by yourself is BORING, unless there's something to make it interesting, which Oblivion DOES NOT HAVE.

"[1)Shunned by the fans would suggest that a majority of those that purchased the game, didnt like it."

That's right, they didn't like it... because it wasn't FF7. Remember, most FF fans were brought into the genre through FF7, which is why it's so popular that it warranted a movie sequel, spinoffs, etc.

"I'd say that both numbers and logic say that it was a crappy game. Sorry, a craptastic poorly translated piece of RPG gaming placed in a very pretty package."

So, you wouldn't say from personal experience that it was a crappy game? What what was poorly translated about it? Typical Xbox 360 fanboy. Get out.

Wow!
I can not believe the arrogance of the average joystiq poster in this thread. A very slim minority has some level headed non-elitest views to balance it a little, but wow I am truly amazed. I play console video games. I have never played a FF game, but I know that they are basically like dragon warrior, which I played alot when I was little. I have an xbox, so the FF games were not available to me lately. If I saw this game in a store I might go wow, they brought FF to the xbox 360 I've heard this is a great series, mabye I'll buy it.

FFXI is also done by the team that did Chrono Trigger -- NOT by the team that has done recent "standard" FF titles. That team was working on - you guessed it - FFXII. FFXI is a very good game, has several AWESOME storylines. The only downside to it is that it may take new players a long time to really get into it since the game really doesn't begin until level 30, but man, when you get there, it's a blast.