Wiimote controller or Xbox Live? Which is the bigger innovation?
by Vladimir Cole 
{ May 4th 2006 at 4:59AM }
Business Week's
running an interview with Microsoft Corporate VP Peter Moore in which Moore was asked to opine on innovation. In
particular, he was asked to comment on the innovation the TV remote-style controller that will come bundled with
Nintendo's newest console.
Moore's response: "If the controller is different and innovative; fine. But I would say that Xbox Live is the bigger innovation. It depends on your definition of innovative. If having a DVD style controller defines innovation; great. I would argue that talking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative."
There are a few ways to settle this debate. Which one took more engineering brawn to develop? Which one will drive more sales? Which one will change the face of gaming more? Will either innovation be remembered years from now as a flop? Which of the two is actually more fun to use? Which of the two provides gamers with the most value?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
JC @ May 4th 2006 5:31AM
"I would argue that talking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative."
didn't this happen over a decade ago? the earliest i can think of is battle.net, but then again i was only 10 when i heard about this internet thing
xbox live hasn't changed the way the game is played, it's the same game, with better graphics, the WS (wii system) is more than innovation it will be a revolution, pardon the pun, it will be mimiced and copied in the next next generation
xbox live has been around for ages, it was just called online pc gaming before
Mike T @ May 4th 2006 5:31AM
I still have always failed to see how xbox live is new/innovative. gamespy? battle.net?
vc @ May 4th 2006 5:33AM
Just to play devil's advocate, playing online has never been so:
(a) easy
(b) user-friendly
(c) console-focused
(d) fully-featured
Xbox Live is absolutely the biggest value and innovation in Microsoft's gaming business.
Jackie Chan @ May 4th 2006 5:34AM
Peter Moore is correct. Xbox Live is INNOVATIVE.. i mean its not like theres been a platform where you can send messages, VoIP, play games online and download demos... oh wait.. THE PC!!!!
Louis @ May 4th 2006 5:37AM
With the NiWiFi Connection, I'll have both please! :)
Saint @ May 4th 2006 5:37AM
It should be pointed out that neither online gaming nor the Wiimote are innovations by themselves. Online gaming has been around for ages and it was really big on PCs before Microsoft brought it to consoles - technically, Satellaview and DreamArena happened before, but Live is more successful. Motion-sensitive controllers have existed in the arcades for a long time.
Given this, the real question is "which was more clever to bring into the console-gaming mainstream"? The Wiimote is certainly more daring as it wasn't based on a tried-and-true concept for a similar market (the PC gaming market). But XBox Live was a lot safer and financially more clever choice, so it depends on your standpoint.
I personally prefer the Wiimote, but then again, I have only played a few Halo2 matches in the year and a half I've been a registered Live user, so I may be the wrong audience.
it hurts when i go wii wii @ May 4th 2006 5:37AM
Man, is this blog overrun by Nintendo Wii-nies or what? This is getting out of hand.
Don Jose @ May 4th 2006 5:38AM
I don't care about the innovation side of it. I'd prefer Xbox live, hands down, be it full of swearing, racist mongoloids or not.
A more important question is how much of a let down either one is.
Ask anyone who bought an original xbox just to play games if they were disappointed by being able to play them online. Probably not.
Then, turn around and ask anyone who's owned every Nintendo console in history what they think of Nintendo's new controller. There's going to be a very pronounced mixture of:
1.)WTF is that? No way!;
2.)Meh...controller looks weak, but I want the virtual console.; and
3.)I would buy Iwata's fingernail clippings if he packaged and marketed them.
(personally, I fit somewhere between categories 1 and 2)
Accordingly, I'm going to go with Xbox Live, simply because I see myself getting more out of that type of service in the long run.
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 5:40AM
Xbox Live By Far.
We have seen WII style stuff before from nintendo, and they claimed innovation. Can you say Virtual Boy, R.O.B, Power Glove?
Xbox live has the fastest growing population of any subscription service. Faster to 1 million than any company can claim. Xbox live is atually fun, IS no where near a flop even if the 360 never takes the Lead in the Next gen console war. Xbox live is probibly the best gaming service ever.. period the end.
WII MOTE CONTROL? SOunds like a bad TV show on MTV, oh wait it was!
NO doubt the Revolution is enticing for next gen games that contain Nintendo Tradmark Intellectual properties (Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Ect....) ALso full Nintendo Backwards EMulation Compatability is exciting, but wait LIve does that already It just don't have Nintendo titles, But I WIll bet you Microsoft will have 1000's of Old PC, COnsole and Arcade titles on the market place before WII see anthing from nintendo.
Don't get me wrong, I love all the systems, but Xbox live is the biggest innovation in gaming since Polygons. I cannot think of anything that games use on a daily basis that is bigger than live, Hardware always gets better but it's the same, AI gets Smarter, Controllers Get more comfortable to hold, MMO cost the same everywhere, but LIVE is EVER evolving and can go in directions that is NON PREDICTABLE. We can all predict PC, WII, PS3 and 360 games and those respective company's future hardware. PC people will build better video cards with built in Physics processors, SOny, MS and Nintendo will build better gaming machines, but MS has set the benchmark and continues to set the benchmark for how that better hardware will get put to use by the user and LIVE gives the users somthing new EVERYDAY, and all Nintendo and SOny can do is Copy it and try to guess how to impliment something more unique, but they won't. Unless every digital multimedia technology is avalable though a ONLIVE service for PS3 or WII, MS will continue to show us where Online is going in Gaming and entertainment.
ENough Rambling..
LIVE = Innovation
WII = Silly DVD WII MOTE Control, Just tell me I can use a Wave bird on WII and I'll be happy, I don't need a VR wand to play next gen games, Im happy with a few Thumb sticks and buttons, Even when Super marion 1280 to the 10 power comes out I want a controller not a magic wand.
I will say one thing for the WII Controller, it will be fun for kids 4-15 after that older gamers aren't gonna wanna use that thing to play games - especially with friends, becuas they will look like they are tring to follow some instructor on the TV, (Ty bo?, Richard simmons - sweating to the oldies, you get the idea) and if Nintendo copies MS with the idea of Cameras for online chat and connections with friends remotely, IM sure WII users will turn it off or cover it up when they have to jump around like a monkey to play their friends - IF nintendo even decides to do the camera thing, I think wII might have to wait for NINTENDO to come out with WII II before they jump on current generation trends. EYE YOU = SOny, VIsion = MS .. nintendo camera??? Can i plug in my Gameboy with it's cart camera? Im telling you, nintendo will do the camera thing either late in the next gen game or NEXT GEN after this NExt gen.
OK im off the topic.
Live = (L)iving, (I)NNOVATION, (V)ideo, (E)ntertainment - see i just defined lives meaning and INNOVATION is a part of it!
It has to be true..
Brandon @ May 4th 2006 5:43AM
Try doing everyhting you can on live on a pc and not get kicked from the server for killing the ping rating of everyone on there and having solid frame rates, grow up people. The Wiimote or whatever hasn't even been released, no one has played it, it could be the greatest thing of all time for gaming, or just somethign fun for an hour like the lightgun i had for my nes, no one knows, so it isn't fair to compare.
AJ @ May 4th 2006 5:49AM
I'm with Saint, neither are particularly innovitive and both are based on proven tech. If I had to pick one I'd have to say the Wii controller though - everyone knew something like Live was coming at some point (though I'll admit, it is reasonably nicely implimented), the only people overly interested in spacial control were doing stuff with VR. The remote-style design was kinda inspired though.
Splorky Fish @ May 4th 2006 5:49AM
Remains to be seen.
chris @ May 4th 2006 5:51AM
I'm sure World of Warcraft and many Asian MMOs I don't care enough about to remember would have a strong case against your Xbox Live 'fastest ever to 1 million' statement Chris D. Xbox Live is playing video games online which has been done only about a bazillion times before and any friends/contact list stuff and voip have been done a bazillion times more.
I also don't call a service that pretty much just provides a bunch of 12-year-olds saying 'the N word' every 5 seconds all that fun.
Paul Cosgrove @ May 4th 2006 5:54AM
I'd definitely call Nintendo's Wiimote an innovation much sooner than I'd apply the same label to XBox Live.
At the end of the day, XBL is basically just a refinement of existing technology, whereas the Wiimote is an entirely new approach to videogame interaction.
I guess it depends where you draw the line at "innovation" over "refinement", but I definitely think XBox Live and Nintendo's new controller are on different sides of that line.
moomer @ May 4th 2006 5:57AM
I'd call online gaming on consoles a fairly obvious development step, particularly since Sega started doing it 2-3 years earlier.
I'd also say that
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 6:00AM
I have to add to my comments.
I thought I would be the first poster to this topic, but my long reply gave others a chance to post before me.
I have read your comments and I agree and Disagree.
Online gaming has been around forever and VOIP and MEssaging services and such are a PC Platform thing too. But now look at Xbox live. It is everything those services are not. Every bad move or Difficult option to impliment has been excecuted by Microsoft on Live Flawlessly, with the exception to the serivce going down once or twice a year for 12-24 hours for SUPER HUGE updates, is there a serivce out there that is as simple to setup - even for joe shmow who never did anything online except go to websites. I'll admit the Xbox (V1) Was good, but 360 makes Live great. the interface is SO intuitive. The structure of the network is Rocksolid, every feature is simplistic and easy to use and impliment, updating is flawless and quick. It's rules and boundries keep the service Friendly, easy, simple, and FAST. Even if you never play a 360 game on the 360 - only use it for LIVE marketplace - arcade games, quick games, puzzle games, downloading of music and trailers and other entertainment content and use the hardware only for DVD Playback and Network streaming, the 360 is worth every penny as well as the live subscription fee.
The Yearly fee for live is more than reasonable, you can ususally score one for $20.00 less than what M$ sells them for at retail, and even if you pay retail you get $30+ worth of stuff in the box makes it so much more worth it.
There are 100's of selling points for live.
The only (2) drawbacks to Xbox live that I can think of is that not everyone is on Live because SOny and Nntendo can't get on the same service, they have to try to copy LIVE. And after 2 days ago, Live is now intergated with Microsoft Live online Site (via the web - MS passport is all you need)
Lastly for those who don;t want to shell out cash, Live is also FREE, and offers features to those free memebers that are ADD FREE, SPAM FREE, and Non Pussy with tring to get you to update. Name me one service that lets you have full access to all its other memebers without paying a subscription fee? There are none, they might let you have Limmited time Unlimited or EVen limmit you to what you can do, but LIVE free Features are Unlimmted for life. DOn't argue that GOld Vs Silver membership are different and offer different things, Im not saying that, what im saying is - Silver (free membership) ALL the features a FREE member gets are FREE, Unlimited, ext... Yes you get more FEATURES if you pay, but atleast they are teasing free members with Partial use of those features or trials, they don't - they just lay it out for you (if you want all the features of gold, then sign up!)
Live is a incredable serive, and a true innovation to online ENTERTAINMENT. Plain and simple, it's not an ORIGINAL INNOVATION, but it took what was Original at one time and made it into what those services have been striving for all these years, LIve got it right 100% out of the Gate(s) - NO Bill jokes please!!!
Chris D
Armin @ May 4th 2006 6:07AM
Oh come on, Moore talks like he invented the internet. Gamers have "connected" for years on the PC.
Dallas @ May 4th 2006 6:14AM
Dem's fightin' words.
also:
innovation
n.
1. The act of introducing something new.
2. Something newly introduced.
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 6:17AM
Last Comment....
The WII remote is not innovative at all....
The technolgy has exisited for several years and has many major applications, but now for the first time a Game company has implimented that technology into a Gaming wand / controller /ect...
I've seen VR wands for years on a reseach and Development level, Iv seeen light guns in gaming for years, Ive seen peripherals such as dance pads, dashboard controllers (Steel battalion - more innovate than WII Controller in my opinion), Trackballs, Spinners, basicly anything that makes it different to game.
The WII COntroller is a slap together of all that stuff over the years into one thing. SO in essence the WII controller has evolved - just like you claim Live to have evolved from online gaming serives and such.
The WII COntroller lets break it down...
Looks and can act as a DVD remote - Not innovative.
wand like movements for gaming - not innovative, Gyro mouse, Power glove, touch screen.
Can shoot like a lightgun - ok not innovative - see using GUncon2 on pc as a mouse / gun/ controller. Thats about 2 years old. ok but they used the Remote feature as a light gun too.. big deal.
Movement sensitivy - COntroller reacts to how fast you move it in a certain direction and can interpet those movements into speed in game - See EA's WII / Madden COmments - Not new - Trackball and mice to the same thing except they put it inside the want and put it on a gravity switch - Guitar hero (star power) type mechansim as well here, not new or innovative.
Putting it all into one Wand. - ok REVOLUTIONY in terms of Evolution of control mechanisms, but not innovative... Innovation was the tings nintendo used to put into the WII controller (the concepts of older control mechanisms).
Lastly - NOONE here has play with it yet... EVEN I might be 100% wrong, but I base my opinion on the ton of information avalable to us. WHere Xbox Live I have been on for like 4 years - SO i think i know what im talking about there.
Also from what i've seen the WII controller is NITSCH. - I really and truely and honestly think and feel there are games out there like me - who wish we had a 360 controller, Dual shock controller or even a wavebird controller for EVEY GAME. I am open to tring the wii CONtroller but i think after 1 hour I will want a wavebird. - Untill Star trek holodeck becomes reality, all innovations in control for entertainment will be EVOLUTIONS REALLY, there is a huge difference.
WE EVOLVED from one species to another, we didn't innovate ourselves into humans, we innovate our lives to evolve into better humans...
WII is not innovation at all...
Just my opinion.
I don;t think anyone's opinions are wrong or even incorrect in any area, i just think that some opinions are miscalculated from not enough data.
WE know 2 things.....
Live is in our hands WII is not.
and
WII all look foward to new innovations
K MAN @ May 4th 2006 6:18AM
Let's not forget, the Contenders are both Consoles, so forget PC. This debate has nothing to do with PCs, just innovations on the console.
Now that's said, XBOX LIVE wins hands down. Never before XBOX LIVE, were we able to download music videos, Game Demos, and updates so easily. Even IF PCs have been doing this for a long time, How many PCs can tell you while you're playing one game, that your friend is playing a different game?
PCs only connect people using the same game. XBOX live will tell you if your friend is online, When was he/she online and what he/she is playing/doing.
this is innovation. Wii remote controller seems to me like a Nintendo Powerglove with different make-up.
Nelle @ May 4th 2006 6:18AM
KALI ?
Battle.Net ?
GameSpy ?
Inovation my arse ...
K MAN @ May 4th 2006 6:19AM
Moore didn't invent the internet. Al Gore did.
That's right. I went there.
Theboy @ May 4th 2006 6:23AM
I think its pretty BS that people are comparing the 2 in the first place considering about 20 people total have probably even touched the WIImote in the first place. This is ridiculous.
I see people calling the wii controller crap without even considering the fact other than "omgz its not made by sony and microsoft itz fur kidz" and retarded things like that.
No cap on xbox live, its an awesome service. yes, the best available right now. I'd just hate to see a potentially good videogame innovation like the revmote go to hell because consumers are too retarded and biased to even touch it (which is sadly the most likely case with alot of the negative attitudes that some people are mercilessly and blindly permeating).
Kazi @ May 4th 2006 6:25AM
Chris D, it baffels me how you throw down on something that's not even out yet. XBL more innovative than the Wiimote? The Wiimote is a risk, XBL isn't. That should tell you something. The reason XBL wasn't a risk? It's been done! The reason the Wiimote is a risk? It's unconventional! the controller hasn't been changed much since the NES!
@21 "Even IF PCs have been doing this for a long time, How many PCs can tell you while you're playing one game, that your friend is playing a different game?"
XFire is a very good example of that. I suggest you download that and try it out.
Everything in XBL is just a refinement of what's already been proven to work. I've never seen a succesful machine with anything like the Wiimote.
I personally believe the amount of risk you take with something is a measure on how innovative it is. Haveing risk means it's unconventional, you're unsure if it's going to be succesful. With that out of the way, which one is riskier?
fluffy @ May 4th 2006 6:27AM
Innovation my a**. This dingbat doesn't know when to shut up. What's so innovative about online gaming. It's the logical step forward, which is also the same with wireless controllers and media extensions.
This guy is plain through and through biased towards his end of the rope. Plain and simple.
SilverDogg @ May 4th 2006 6:33AM
wow! the microsoft fanboys are awake =D
Addy @ May 4th 2006 6:34AM
If were talking about flops you should look at the xbox as a whole, what good is the Live 'innovation' when the xbox made a $4billion loss. Just think about that for a second, $4Billion. If the situation was reversed and Nintendo relased the XBOX and Microsoft the Gamecube (which has made around a $2billion profit) then Nintendo would cease to exist. Its only 'cos Bill reached down the back of his couch to fund the xbox that it and the 360 still exists. It is a gigantic failure even if they did sell 3million more units.
jonat3 @ May 4th 2006 6:40AM
Xbox Live was definately innovative. Don't misunderstand me, i know that online gaming has been here for years. HOWEVER, concerning console gaming, xbox live can indeed be considered innovative, since true online for console only began with xbox live.
Now, using above criteria, that would make the wiimote innovative as well, since it also has never been applied to console gaming as we know it. The wiimote is definately a bolder step than xbox live is, since xbox live can be considered an extension of existing games, while the wiimote changes nearly everything.
The wiimote is also a far riskier move than xboxlive ever could be, BECAUSE it changes everything. I think it's obvious that the wiimote should be considered more innovative than xbox live is (regardless of which one gives more enjoyment). Innovation is to bring something new. Both xbox live and the wiimote fit that bill (when applied to consoles), but the wiimote's effect on gaming are far more extensive than xbox live ever could hope to be.
So, in essence, the wiimote is more innovative. Wether the wiimote is FUN, remains to be seen, since innovation does not equal fun all the time.
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 6:41AM
KAZI,
I thorow down based on what I read, See and HEar + What I / yes ME and JUST ME / Want as a gamer, but I think my opinion holds some weight as I am an older gamer and been in the game along time - I think there are many Gamers like me who feel the way i do about this. As I stated I am not CONDEMING the WII mote - I said that it will probibly be a hit for 4-15 yr olds. And I will revise my earlier statement that it will be a distracting to older games for maybe a day or (2). I think the market is big enought for Nintendo to take a risk with the WII and have a hit, but if you have been reading and following the REVOLUTION, nintendo knows they will not be #1 in the gaming market, they know they will be (3rd) in the next gen hardware sales, and they know that their IP (ittelectual property) for next gen CONSOLE (not handheld - completly different story) will help them atain some profits from next gen market.
I think people like me are scared to see Evolutions like nintendo is tring to make, it's unconventional, plus i don't think the amount of movement required to play will be a big hit with long time gamers, we all like to play with the new toys, but we go back to what we know. Most PC games still use a Mouse and Keyboard. Most console gamers use a control pad, thats it. Peripherls other than stadard ones are used for nitch games and when the game looses it's appeal, the controller get put away forever. IF nintendo makes the WII controller the only way to play WII games, then older users even younger userrs with short attention spans will put away WII when they get bored of it - and that will be quickly. I loved light gun games, but i don't play them anymore - even new ones, I don't play pad games cause i am not dexterous enough to complete them, though I am KIller DDR PLAYER with a controller, I already shelved guitar hero until guitar hero 2 comes out and my mame cabinet is not in use anymore becuase Im bored of it and the huge arcade control panel i built - i atually classic game on the cabnet with a wireless PC pad - more fun to me. SO you see my point here.
NOw to addresss your Xbox live statements - XBL was not a risk??? You forget one thing my friend - XBOX was a rish - let alone XBOX LIVE. Only 1 year after Xbox came out, still unproven in the gaming market, they release xbox live. I would say that AS innovative as live is and as fast as it grew - it was all a huge risk. It wasn't until the Xmas of Halo 2 that Microsoft Xbox and Xbox live proved they are here to stay and to compete, Many hardcore people and analist up until lauch and until Halo 2 (3 years later) felt the Xbox would go away and Fail eventually, even with live year 2 and 3 it still could have failed, LIVE + HALO 2 + its dedication to gaming in general proved MS was going nowhere. ANd now MS and Xbox brand is accepted as a Alternitive and a legitimate gaming system. If you are not legit to gamers and analist you are a fad. Nintendo WII is a great concept, but the controller is a FAD. If there is a CONVENTIONAL control alternitive that works with everything the WIIMOTE can do - WII WILL ROCK US ALL and do very well - but still be #3 of the big 3.
Chris D
kaius. @ May 4th 2006 6:44AM
would it not be possible to just create a converter so all other consoles can use this Wii controller?!
call me dumb but its only a peripheral device?!.. these can be easily converted - no?!
btboy500 @ May 4th 2006 6:45AM
Just for the fact that the Xbox Live infrastructure has been around since the original Xbox while the Wiimote is something that hasn't been done for games before, I'd go with the controller on being the bigger innovation, though I believe that to be true for other reasons, too. Another point I'd like to make is that Nintendo Wi-fi provides a pretty nice innovation itself: being free, for first party games atleast.
soco @ May 4th 2006 6:46AM
i would say that xboxlive is more innovative as a whole. there are so many finer points that most people overlook in xboxlive, which aren't in existance in the same capacity on the PC or in other previously existing consoles [yet].
every portion of the revolution controller has also been in existance before this point, and has been used for games. be it older VR pucks, the power glove, the PS2 golf club controller, the star wars light-saber games, or any of the other devices that have worked on similar individual concepts.
what's happened here is that both companies have taken something that was already in existance in different parts, and pulled them together in a complete package. (the same as the DS) this is the innovation in both cases, but when you look at it, xboxlive as it is now, has many more subtle innovations that people never notice. be it TruSkill pairings, the XBLA, the marketplace, or even the whole community aspect. it's all part of the service, and something that started last generation (yes XBLA started last generation as a crappy disc).
DAve @ May 4th 2006 6:48AM
Ahhh Xbox Live. The chance to be abused in the comfort of my own home. No thanks.
Wasabi @ May 4th 2006 6:51AM
XBox live isn't innovative. It's refined. But Microsoft definately didn't come up with the idea and for them to call the entire thing their innovation is BS. If online gaming was their doing, why don't they have a patent on it?
The Wiimote is innovative. Where the heck did such an idea come from?
Just remember, innovative doesn't mean successful. And we should really stop judging the playability of it before it's out on the market....
jonat3 @ May 4th 2006 6:52AM
The service of xbox live may have a greater number of smaller innovations, but i'm also considering impact. The wiimote just impacts games in a way xbox live couldn't ever hope to. That's because xbox live is still based on a traditional interface. The wiimote is an entirely new interface. It's only natural that the wiimote should have more impact.
soupbun @ May 4th 2006 6:53AM
sheesh. you people (like Chris D) should just write novels! more money in plagirism :P
Let's see:
MS Innovation:
- multi-billion dollar loss in R&D
- repackaging of existing software
- huge, overheated hardware
- bloatware which needs huge media
- previous generation gameplay
Nintendo innovation:
- multi-million dollar profit from products
- repackaging of existing software
- small, sleek, simple hardware
- tighter software which requires smaller media
- completely new gameplay
yup, you're right. We do have a clear winner in innovation.
BTW, from the sounds of all these articles, there's a smell of fear from M$ and Sony.
AK @ May 4th 2006 6:55AM
Microsoft thought the xbox would lose $900million over 8 years and its lost $4billion in 4! They've got a 16% or so market share but the price was too high. Pepsi could seriously cut coke's market share if they started selling 12 cans for $1.
And so much for that 'installed base', the 360's are just sitting on the shelves with nowhere to go.
But wait! HAlo 3!!1OnE!...
yawn
Everyone is waiting for true next gen, whether its the powerhouse from Sony or the intriguing Wii remains to be seen. Ones thing for sure the hype is over and noone cares about the 360.
Billy said this would be thier last console if it made a simlilar loss so i guess this is goodbye...
SuperUser @ May 4th 2006 6:56AM
Dear Mr. Moore,
if i understand you correctly then you are going to say that:
- to redo/copy a common concept (online games) and resell it under a new name (Live) is innovative
- to sell (virtual) goods online (like thousands of websites) under a new name (Marketplace) is innovative
- to charge a fee (Gold-Membership) to be able to play online with your already paid games-console and your already paid games is innovative
- to create a new multi-functional input device (which probably can be intuitively used) is NOT innovative...
Your boss have to be a really stupid MF to pay you for such an analysis... you lucky bastard!
Phil @ May 4th 2006 6:58AM
Now this is what I call an argument!!!
Wow! Geez! Far out!!! And we have ... in the lead closely followed by ...
Comment 28 has a great point.
Look, they are both pretty innovative, they were both derived from unoriginal concepts but it's evident which companmy takes it further.
Microsoft took the age old concept of linked gameplay and took it to a photocopy shop and had it enlarged (and popularised by Halo, might I add) and stuffed it fulla extras which have also been around for a million years.
Nintendo took a DVD remote, simplified the controls and made it control the console REMOTELY. The remote part is important as it is different from arcades as arcades all have cable attachments and give the ILLUSION of interactive control.
We now have to check who actually INVENTED something here. XBOX Live combined the features of 'age' old technology. Nintendo is making a push towards virtual reality with the remote-advancing not just gaming but technology on the whole, they created a line between the game and the remote and used it to move the character or whatever as the controller moves.
Wii have found an Innovation.
Live has found what several T.V. companies have-how to make something look like it's original.
boots (former bd (former b)) @ May 4th 2006 6:59AM
Well, what do you expect? Did you really expect him to say: "Well, the Wii mote is very innovative. Sure, we have LIVE, but we can't compare"? Duh.
Anyway, Xbox LIVE only made things easier. Anyone disregarding the controller as "Kiddy" has been living under a rock, not to say is retarded, since the DS could be equally "Kiddy" and look how adults love it; furthermore, kids want to play "what adults play", like Xbox 360 (but of course, play Pi? games, lovely).
Xbox LIVE is not original; it is just a refinement of something brought long time ago, just like great graphics or more disc storage; just more of the same. The Wii Mote will bring original gameplay experiences. Xbox LIVE never had that in the first place.
Besides, if it was so innovative, why does it still depend on cables? No WiFi out of the box? Come on Suicide Ninja, refute this with your reliability crap, because that's bullshit. I get very fast speeds with wireless internet, and I can fully take advantage of it. NiWiFi has grown much faster, thanks to WiFi.
Anyone that thinks otherwise is just an Xbox fanboy, a dipshit or both.
Peter Moore = Moron @ May 4th 2006 7:05AM
i was going to vent...but i read the first 5 comments, and everyone said what i was thinking. good job.
just to beat a dead horse...
xbox live is just a stolen innovation...remember when MPlayer was huge 10 years ago (before they became gamespy...it is gamespy, right?)? same deal...just 10 years ago...and there were others before that.
nintendo's innovations:
first controller with the D-Pad
first controller with analog stick
first wireless controller
Rumble Pack
and where would gaming be today without a D-Pad or analog stick?
Geh? @ May 4th 2006 7:06AM
Hmm, it does seem that Live people are forgetting that PS2 has (as unoriginal the title may seem) NETPLAY.
NETPLAY was before Live, and don't give me crap about it being up first or junk like that CAUSE IT WASN'T.
Live is NOT innovative.
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 7:08AM
I have just been up all night so i have alot to pour out of me at this time before i go to bed or i have bad dreams.
Listen, IM not a fanboy here.
I love my Gamecube, I love my PS2 and I find 360 a great system, but only one of those takes all my gaming time up (which isn't much 10 hours a week maybe)and thats XBox 360 - and its only becuase of xbox live. I find myself chatting with friends I would never pick up the phone and call, leaving messages for people I wouldnever call that are never on when im on becuase I know they never check email and they are on live more than they check email and I find myself trolling around the market place downloading everything i can - ( have 2 HDD's full of files already).
When did nintendo give me a good reason to turn on the gamecube (res evil 4 was the last time)
PS2 just don't do it for me in 1sxt part titles anymore - I beat GT4 god of war and Tourest trophy sucks) Guitar hero is boaring now and ill never be as good as those guys on google video - Im a real guitar player and I haven't ever gotten that fast on real guitar - what make me think ill imporove for a game)
Will I get PS3 - yes - more for its online features than anything else - since PS2 online bombed. I want GT online - I want MGS online - Stuff like that i can expect to find on PS3.
WIll I get a WII - YES - but not for its Controller or its donwloadable content - i have 500 nes game carts - 200 snes carts - 60+ n64 carts - and My gamecube is still in my home entertainemtn center - so i don't need a WII for backwards compatability - I want one for new Nintendo Games (mostly metroid, Zelda, and Mario- and maybe just maybe Please let there be a new Donkey kong country in the future?)
as for using the WII controller on other systems / PC - wont happen too much to figure out and it will be all propritary anyways, kind of like tring to use a X360 wireless controller on a PC or another system - just isn't gonna happen.
DO i hope and pray for a WII Controller (like a 360/dualshock) yes!!!
IS the WII MOTE innovative - ok you changed my mind guys.... oh wait.. no you didn;t -- It's not innovative. It's evolutionaly but thats different becuase that means the technolgy has been used before.
It's like this - we all had something original that was super big and bulky - CD PLAYER, DVD PLAYER, VHS PLAYER - ect.. but eventually someone shrinks it down and thows in a bunch of new ways to do the same old thing.. WII CONTROLLER is still just a controller.
Live is innovative becuase it was completely re thought and implimented - and it works! its not nitsch, its not a fad, and it is and never will be boring.
Chris D
jonat3 @ May 4th 2006 7:11AM
Like i said before, fun and innovation are not synonomous with each other. Just because xbox live is more fun, does not mean it's more innovative.
ImCowman @ May 4th 2006 7:13AM
WAIT! I was under the impression that nobody here has USED the Wii-mote! Is there something you guys aren't telling me?? Or are you putting dont the Nitendo remote before you've used it??
Lemme think......Unfair?? Yea
DetoX @ May 4th 2006 7:14AM
saint
those were some very good points
Chris D @ May 4th 2006 7:18AM
WII - is a really bad name
WIIMOTE - is WIIDICULAS
WII joke are getting WIILY WILLY BAD
I can see a cartoon charater doing voice overs for WIImercials.
the concept of WE has gone WIILY WILLY WRONG
WII WII WII
UGH
Im done for now, time for bed then work, then i'll respond more later, but im sure you don't want any more from me. and excuse my dislexya its getting late for me.
SuperUser @ May 4th 2006 7:20AM
#43
"WII CONTROLLER is still just a controller."
Yeah, but as innovative as it can be imho.
Man, what do they have to do for you to call a new way of interacting with the games a innovation - a mindcontrolled game (which is already done in a version of Pong), or what? ;-)
Don't make me get Kyle @ May 4th 2006 7:20AM
Chris D,
WTF mate, BLAH BLAH BLAH.
You know in year 7 (7th grade) ENGLISH? Cutting things down? Editing? SHEESH! Talk about repetitive.
Risk=Good, shows you have balls, shows you have innovative ideas, that posibly might not be accepted (by people like you might I add)
Live=Not risky
Wii=Risky
You know WHY Live's not risky? ITS BEEN DONE BEFORE. Netplay, battle.net, etc. yeah throw a few conveniences in there if you want but its still the same basic concept.
The basic concept of the Wii remote is to enhance interactivity beyond what we have seen so far. This is what people call a NEW IDEA.
You, my good sir, have the brain of an especially small lab rat involved in failed experiments.
Zsavior @ May 4th 2006 7:25AM
Maybe it is cause I just saw superman returns trailer, maybe cause I just can't help but respond. In any event I am about to pull an Alec Baldwin and respond to this post.
You know Peter Moore is a very intelligent man, the console fanbase as shunned the PC for many of years. Trying to evade the immersive play PC games has had to offer by claiming what they really wanted was only on a game console.
The question asked is tainted, in the idea that the WIImote has not been released for the consumer. That being said I have never been one to run from a good debate. I don't think people seriously understand what the question asked. When confronted on which is the bigger innovation, between nintendo's WIIremote or Xbox Live service more was quick to back Xbox live, but then quickly said this.
"It depends on your definition of innovative. If having a DVD style controller defines innovation; great. I would argue that taking millions of gamers and connecting them with friends and strangers around the world... I'd call that pretty innovative"
That above statement right there settles all arguements, because this is not a question of console innovation alone, this is a question of innovation in gaming. As much as many console fans would love not to believe MS, SOny, and Nintendo are in competition with the PC industry; an industry that has always held the superior immersive capability of online play and graphics. When comparing Xbox Live "innovation" to the PC arena you have to be totally deluded, in your choice to even consider that as an innovation in gaming. It doesn't separate itself from the PC world, It doesn't stand alone as the one to copy, it merely comes up with way to bring one world into another. This can only be seen as a innovation by gamers who have chosen not to explore all of gaming for what ever reason they may have had.
If you chose to stay in the console world and not ever try out PC gaming that is your choice. But what you do not do is tuck yourself away under your rock, and insult PC gaming trying to take away something they have done and still do superiorly for years. Online gaming on a console is not an innovation, at this point it is playing catch-up to a platform that has been around for years. Many console fans may not like this fact, but to bad this is the way it is and will be for some time. As a matter of fact the way Sony and MS is going they are only making a case for console gamers to go to the PC realm.
High Priced graphical beasts, with online play and different ungradable options. Yes I guess if you never tried to play W.O.W or EQ, or City of Heroes on your PC this seems amazing, but to the PC gamer this is just another day in their world. Don't be impressed by the lack of ingenuity that is online gaming for the console, and that does include Nintendo.
As for the WIIremote, I guess it would be ideal to boast about something I have never experienced(Kind of how console gamers who have not experience PC gaming online is backing Xbox Live as greatness), but I can't do that because I have not seen the implementation of the WIIremote on the video games offered by the system. I will say this, while the Xbox360 and the PS3 chase the immersion the PC world is offering. The Nintendo WII is trying to change the way you think and feel about console gaming. Nintendo wants to redefine the control scheme so the lines between console and PC gaming is not blurred or stagnated. What the WII remote offers is a definitive Nintendo console experience, that won't be mistaken for anything else. Is it innovative only time will tell, but it is something you won't find anywhere else and that maybe something Xbox live can not say.