Anatomy of shame: Dual Shake vs. Wiimote
Perhaps you heard a loud rumbling sound several moments after our friend, Krazy Kutaragi, took the stage at the Sony E3 press conference and revealed what was, according to him, a big "secret" regarding the But there's no need to be pointing fingers and gyroscopic contraptions in an effort to blame one for stealing from the other. A better reaction would be to consider how the two devices compare, though the technical qualities are less important than the factors related to gaming. Consider that Nintendo's system has been built to utilize the more wobust wiimote right from the start, with every single game being created to take advantage of the primary controller in some way or another. The Sony press conference gave the impression that the opposite was true with the PS3, with Phil Harrison stating that Warhawk had been "adapted" to take advantage of the Dual Shake's newly announced abitlies. How late was the decision made to add the new functionality to the controller? My guess is that the idea can't have been implemented too long ago, as none of the other PS3 games at the conference seemed to make use of motion sensing. In which case it seems that, at least initially, the Wii wil simply have a greater quantity of games that boast integration with the unique controller. Given the increased development time, it's fair to expect Nintendo's first volley of games to be a good deal more intricate in those regards as well.
Sony's strategy of combining a traditional controller with a weird one is valid (it's an added feature, after all), but it may end up being more limiting, almost to the same degree that Nintendo's controller is limiting when it comes to traditional controls. While Nintendo's controller allows for more aerobic activities such as swinging a sword and aiming a gun (note the examples my violent mind immediately conjures up), the Dual Shake's design makes that sort of thing somewhat less practical. This not only puts a confinement on what developers can do, essentially forcing a balance between traditional and non-traditional controls, but puts Sony in an unpleasant position of being put alongside a competitor that's likely to have a much cheaper product. If you want to play unique games built upon motion sensing concepts, it's clear which system is the better choice (hint: the cheaper one).
On the other wand-waving hand, however, one could argue that those who prefer traditional games and have less interest in unusual mechanics would be far better off with a system that, in a sense, offers a glimpse of both worlds. As always, it boils down to the games and how well each system takes advantage of its specific capabilities. The Wii doesn't have much choice in that area, but the PS3 does run the danger of having a host of games that have tacked-on motion sensing functionality as opposed to more elaborate experiences. But then, the games on the PS3 don't depend on the controller nearly as much as Wii titles do. It'll be interesting to see which games will make the most out of the controllers they're given and we expect to be able to add more to this discussion after Nintendo's press conference tomorrow. Nothing stopping you from adding to it right now, though.











Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ryan @ May 9th 2006 7:07AM
"Pathetic."
I wish more would come to mind, but that's all I've got, folks.
the_game_master @ May 9th 2006 7:08AM
The conceptial aka boomerang controller looked much better and fit the futuristic PS3 look than the DualShock 2 pared with it.
They axed the vibrating feature just to copy in Nintendo's Wii's sensor remote feature.
Why Sony why?
Why did you give in to kids whine about the conceptial design, I thought it looked nice.
Truf @ May 9th 2006 7:09AM
Sony is letting Nintendo do all the R+D even letting them teach developers how to implement motion control then sony will benefit from it all.
Pretty clever, sony said it before, its not about getting there first, its about getting there at the right time.
But this time it seems like they jumped on board early, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out
smellslikepie @ May 9th 2006 7:12AM
@ #1,
i don't think that they 'axed' the vibration feature just to implement gameplay similar to that of Nintendo's 'wiimote'. I think that it was mainly to do with the lawsuit, of which I know next to nothing about, but hopefully someone will read this and fill you (and me) in.
Pince @ May 9th 2006 7:14AM
Being as my comment for the previous topic didnt go through:
This is all just kind of sad. It is obvious was sony is trying to do here (steal a little bit of N's thunder), but they are cheapening their own controller to do it. It seems extremely tacked on and last-minute...probably because it is very much both of those things.
This combined with the fact that the PS3 "no-really-I'm-not-the-dualshock" controller brings 0 other innovations to the table (not even a slightly better control scheme), makes for kind of a pathetic showing. Sony could have at least kept their pride in their old controller if they hadnt attempted to tack on little extras that seem more like a nuisance than a benefit.
Is sony creating a new console, or just borrowing scraps of ideas from the consoles around it?
I mean, I realize that the PS3 is definitely far different from the previous PS2, and from the 360 and Wii, but it hasnt set it self apart in any definitive, impressive, or even adventurous way.
But, as I have said before, there is plenty of E3 left. Hopefully Sony has some gems hidden up their sleave, because, at least for me, they are coming very close to losing my purchase.
Alex K. @ May 9th 2006 7:17AM
ps3 devs are just going to ignore the motion sensing capability, and in fact i don't think consumers will even realize that the ps3 has motion sensing since the controllers look EXACTLY THE SAME as PS1 controllers.
furthermore, people will know the wii as the unique weird different console with motion sensing.
Truf @ May 9th 2006 7:18AM
Wii's controller is capable of the same functionailty as sony's. That is to say why do people forget about the shell???
Sony couldn't put in rumble because they lost the lawsuit with immersion. If they put in rumble they would be unable to sell the console. So rumble would have been a bad idea.
Don Dada @ May 9th 2006 7:19AM
I think that the motion sensor controller should be an optional add on like a light gun (Super Scope 6 anyone?). If Nintendo wants to develop most of thier titles to use it then fine, but the putting the controller in some type of caddy to play normal games sounds pretty lame. I bet they com out with an additional "normal controller" as well. How are you going to play these old schol SNES games with that weirdo remote thing? held sideways? meh.
Even if Nintendo wants to make this thier primary controller, if Sony wants to bite it they should have made it at option accessory like the Eye-Toy. It might be worth getting to some people to play tennis or some next-gen Lethal Enforcers type game. Not to me thoguh.
Gamer_Domeni @ May 9th 2006 7:20AM
As far as traditional controls on the Wii, have you not heard of the shell that was talked about the past 6 months?
soniCron @ May 9th 2006 7:21AM
Dare I mention that with a traditional-style Wii shell, the Nintendo controller could blow the PS3 controller out of the water. The best of both worlds: buttons, pads, joysticks, motion sensing, tilt sensing, and location in 3D space. Far cheaper.
soniCron @ May 9th 2006 7:21AM
*laughs* THAT was a series of useless posts! ;)
nate @ May 9th 2006 7:29AM
they copied xbox live, xbox (triggers) and nintedo so what did they actually come up by themselves???
Paul Taylor @ May 9th 2006 7:30AM
"But then, the games on the PS3 don't depend on the controller nearly as much as Wii titles do."
Excuse me? This is completely la-la mind-melting gibberish. Of *course* games on the PS3 will "depend" on the controller: how many terrible FPS's have there been on consoles in the past with mangled design simply because players aren't able to use a mouse? The controller will define the range of control systems available to developers, even if that controller is in some way "generic": that's transparently obvious.
"If you want to play unique games built upon motion sensing concepts, it's clear which system is the better choice (hint: the cheaper one)."
What? You can't make the point that the Wii and PS3 controllers are fundamentally different entities and then assert that consumers are going to make a choice about *the abstract idea of a control system* based on price. If the Wii and PS3 were competing in the same market, an issue which the post seems continually to obfuscate, then price would certainly be an issue.
Yes, there will be a lot of crap titles with pointless motion-sensing on the PS3, but that's because it's a Sony console, not because there's something ideologically unsound about its controller. Also, nobody has any idea "how well" the motion-sensing works on the PS3 yet - it might be amazing, it might be more functional and practical that that of the Wii, which could run out of steam due to a lack of third-party creativity. Who knows? Stop making an ass you of you and Wii.
Platinum_Skeet @ May 9th 2006 7:32AM
Has everybody forgot about the talks Nintendo had for the Wii controller just in case. If it's still in the works the Wii will have a more traditional control shell that the Wii controller fits in. If you don't understand go to the linke below there's an example of it at IGN.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html
edwin @ May 9th 2006 7:33AM
THAT'S WHY NINTENDO FANBOYS HATE SONY SO MUCH!!!!!
AJ @ May 9th 2006 7:40AM
Tilt sensors have been used in video game controllers before loads of times.
Gareth @ May 9th 2006 7:43AM
Sony blatantly rips off Nintendo's innovation with an interface;
They blatantly attempt to (we'll see how successful it is) rip off MS's dashboard and Xbox Live;
They claim they are all their original 'innovative' ideas;
They shoehorn stolen ideas into a controller that was designed 10 years ago;
Sony really deserves to lose this next generation.
The sad thing is however that there are plenty of Sony fanboys in the world who will blindly make sure that doesn't happen.
/despair
edwin @ May 9th 2006 7:43AM
Nintendo: R&D Team = Research & Depelopment Team
Sony : R&D Team = Rip Off & Duplicator Team
DG @ May 9th 2006 7:44AM
It's really depressing to see Sony going with the exact same basic design for the third time in a row. That's exactly one controller shell in a decade's worth of video games -- pathetic.
While the Wiimote is shaped to be used as the perfect motion sensing device, the Sony controller can only be held one way, requiring two hands and much more limited functionality.
What a joke. And for $600, just give me a break. I don't care how pretty your graphics are -- I've got rent to pay.
bubka @ May 9th 2006 7:46AM
so it's pretty much just a tilt sensor? Marble Madness PS3 baby!
Kazi @ May 9th 2006 7:49AM
Why the hell does everyone always forget about the shell and the firggin GC controller ports (located in the top flap of the Wii). How the hell do you think you're going to play GC games on a system with out a standard controller?
The Wii will get games that use the traditional controls through multiplatform games. They'll also have all the old school games you'll undoubtidly need a standard controller for. Seriously, the Wii puts everything related to gaming on the table besides ultra expensive hardware and a new format that'll end up useless anyways. (Is not haveing to swap CDs really worth $200 more dollars than the 360? Is that and better graphics really worth $350 more?)
Besides that, I think Sony is really shooting themselves in the foot by providing the only new features in something the average consumer won't even notice (Blu-Ray, Cell Processor). And then coming out with a knock off of Nintendo's features (yet again) in a wholly transparent attempt to steal Nintendo's steam.
I hope someone at Sony is losing sleep over this. Right now they look more heartless and poisonous than the king of capitalism, Microsoft.
martin @ May 9th 2006 7:52AM
I hate Microsoft, especially XBOX never owned one and never will, but I cannot wait till Microsoft and Logitech Sue Sony for stealing their designs and Sony will end up with a controller that does nothing.
I Pee my Ass on a Tree @ May 9th 2006 7:56AM
"DUAL-SHAKE"
Hahaha, thats nice.
Now all they have to do is make the name oficial, and then we can surely lock Krazy Kutaragi in a mental institution.
Chris @ May 9th 2006 7:56AM
"they copied xbox live, xbox (triggers) and nintedo so what did they actually come up by themselves???"
They copied the triggers off XBox? They haven't changed the triggers since the original Playstation, long before Microsoft was even considering a gaming division.
And of course they aren't going to change the controller. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
Gareth @ May 9th 2006 7:58AM
"I hope someone at Sony is losing sleep over this."
Ken certainly isn't. That guy's skin is so UNREALISTICALLY thick that I'm sure he's bullet-proof when naked.
crux @ May 9th 2006 7:58AM
Paul Taylor, you are talking, to put it mildly, total bollocks.
vx2 @ May 9th 2006 7:59AM
damnit the two controllers are totally different.
One is only capable of motion sensing with x,y,z axis and blah2x...
Wii moves in free 3D space...hence the sensors needed on the t.v....
The dual-sucks won't be able to detect distance etc.,
Ln @ May 9th 2006 8:03AM
Wow AJ, wonderful insight. Reread the first paragraph of the blog. No one is saying Nintendo invented tilt/motion sensors, but their idea of taking this direction was a radical departure from the traditional stanbard controller for game consoles.
In fact many people were shocked when it was first announced.
Is it just a coincidence that Sony has also taken this innovative direction? Judging by the rushed job of the single demo, I'd say it was very unlikely.
Gareth @ May 9th 2006 8:03AM
"Don't fix it if it isn't broken."
By your reckoning, Microsoft will be using X360 joypads for the rest of time.
"don't fix it if it isn't broken" is therefore bad for innovation, don't you think?
Don Dada @ May 9th 2006 8:03AM
Controller shell is just as stupid as deleting vibration. I'm willing to bet anything Nintendo release a wireless GC controller for thw wii. After that they have the best controller(s).
What if the third partys can't get the controller integrated into the game properly? Did you read that Madden Wii article? The game play sounds horrible. You think they will try to force everyone with a Wii to play it like that? You have to buy a second controller for a console anyway. If I were getting a Wii (god that sounds awful) I would make sure I had the GC controller for Madden and a bunch of other stuff.
Pee Ass 3 @ May 9th 2006 8:09AM
.
Scientists cloned Dolly, the sheep.
Sony Cloned Nunchuck, the controller.
Cant wait to get my PeeAss 3.(sorry, my mistake, its the Blu-Raystation3)
.
Braynbasher @ May 9th 2006 8:10AM
What's funny is that nobody will kill sony for this but the kill microsoft for everything
GlitchCog @ May 9th 2006 8:13AM
I think Sony's showing so far demonstrates that Sony is not a video gaming company. They made some okay hardware the previous two generations and let everyone under the sun put software on it, and in that they were successful. It just seems since the battle has switched from getting all the kids to play video games, which only requires lots of pedestrian titles with enough violence, to developing new and interesting ideas. Sony seems to be floundering at that.
ds3 @ May 9th 2006 8:30AM
ok every fanboy here needs to chill out
not one of the next-gen consoles is at all inovative
and quit talking like you know something becuase if you dont work for sony,nintendo or microsoft than just shut your mouth
the ps3 and wii hasnt even come out yet there are many changes that can be done to both
and sony didnt copy from nintendo they just needed an extra feature and if they didnt add sumtin "next-gen" to theyre controller you would be even more pissed
i personally like the boomerang controller but this one will have to do
man.....what do these companies have to do to impress you.............give you money away when you buya game? =s
WiLey @ May 9th 2006 8:30AM
I have to say that im a, no was, untill today, a sony fanboy who respected the other companies. But today that all changed.
Not only is this a bad ripp off the wii controller, but they have kept the same controller design since ps2, that is simply shocking. Heres what they should do.
replace the l2 and r2 buttons with TRIGGERS. (like 360)triggers are much better for shooting games aswell as bieng much better to use then buttons. Then switch the dpad with a anolougue stick. its that simple, using the anolougue is uncomftorble, and it needless be. the main way to play games should be to use the ANOLOGUE stick, come on, sony. the addage ive seen bieng used is 'dont fix it if it aint broken', well if your saying that using the same controller design for 10 years, and saying its still good enough for supposedly 'nect genration' games is??? well i think you just missed your medication, and your simply backing up the wii's point. if games havent changed in 10 years, that a 10 year old controller can still effectively be used to play new games, i dont know what to say. NO. im not supporting the wii, what im saying is sort out the pad, its not the best pad out there anymore, and playing with it IS annoying.
With the loss of rumble i dont know what to say, but thats a step BACK in time, the gaming community is supposed to be moving forward, not reverting. however i would agree that no one even notices it anymore, but having it never hurt anygame, so losing it aint progress.
Now for the most shocking part of this pad. the motion sensing part. WHy sony? Its STUPID, yes its STUPID. And your cheap copy cat is simply a joke, im amazed about the idioticy that could have allowed this to have happened. Its an uneeded feature, it dosent change gameing, and dosent justify this joke of a pad.
Sony have just ensured at least the relatice sucess of he nintendo wii mote, which is really stupid since its not that good an idea, its uneeded and tacky, and i dont want to play games moving my hands like a fool. granted i may not HAVE to, but then if i dont use it, waht we get is a sned pad poorly placed anolgue sticks.
Sort it sony, because you have geniuinely lost a fan.
wIley
Styj @ May 9th 2006 8:31AM
Pathetic
And the guy #3 seems like he doesnt know what he is talking about..
Sony will be benefit from the developers use of Wii??
Thats SHAMELESS and PAHETIC!!
Kimmo @ May 9th 2006 8:33AM
http://eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64446
quote:
Eurogamer: When did you first learn about this controller?
Dylan Jobe: We've really known officially for about a week and a half, and we did the final tuning just a couple of days ago.
Crias @ May 9th 2006 8:34AM
Ok, i wasn't going to comment... but I just watched the Sony Press Conference. Did any of you see it? I've heard some of you say something along the lines of "you never know, the PS3 controller might be responsive".
When the Wiimote was announced, people tested it... gamers tested it. They said it had INCREDIBLE response. People are testing this new PS3 controller, and they claim its response is lacking. COuld it improve? Maybe, hwo knows. But it's not a good primary showing.
But here's the problem... I dont want to sound like a Ninty fanboy (I kinda am), because honestly I give the other consoles a fair chance to impress me. If you watched as the demo person contorted his arms in EXTREMELY uncomfortable positions to fly that aircraft... I'm not impressed. I wasn't sure before, but now I know... the one-hand Ninty design is a must for proper motion control.
bubka @ May 9th 2006 8:35AM
it sounds like Kirby tilt n' tumble in a PS2 controller
WiLey @ May 9th 2006 8:37AM
'waht we get is a sned pad poorly placed anolgue sticks'
this should have read,
'what we get is a snes pad, with poorly placed anolgue sticks'
Im sorry my spelling is down thanks to the extreme fustrtion im experiencing right now.
And another thing. ps3 and lets say 1 or 2 games, is more than a wii and 360 together.
Sony you have lost my support, bye bye.
Richard @ May 9th 2006 8:37AM
PS3 - "Hey, hey, me too, me too!" Lame.
Gareth @ May 9th 2006 8:42AM
Think about this:
The PS3 has PS2-style joypads that are powered by 7-year-old technology.
The console itself is no more powerful than an Xbox360, CPU, graphics card and memory architecture all told.
WHY is someone going to pay 600 (using the $1=1 rule that normally applies with gaming) for this machine when they can get an equally-powerful one for 280, or a console that has 'proper' motion-sensing controllers for over 100 less than that?
I think Sony's really f*cked up this time.
Seer S @ May 9th 2006 8:43AM
I'm still deeply disappointed that they chose to put in a gimmick instead of incremental improvements.
Cafolatra @ May 9th 2006 8:47AM
Sony is a fucking blackhole.. But seriously, this controller have nothing to do with the wiimote. It only has a tilt sensor, while the wiimote have an actual motion sensing capability.. Stop whining fanboys.
Eric @ May 9th 2006 8:47AM
Sony apparently thinks the dualshock is the best design ever created...
They once stepped outside their little bubble and tried to improve on it, with disastrous results.
The community slammed them for their boomerang because it was retarded NOT because they screwed with the perfect dualshock.
There are SO many things they could have done.
There are SO many things they SHOULD have done to it.
I actually feel INSULTED by Sony's lack of design ability, completely unable to see where the dualshock needed to be improved. Moreover the fact that they were too much of a bunch of pussies to step away from the dualshock for a god damn generation...Its been over 10 years for christ sakes!
On top of that, taking away my favorite feature (forcefeedback) and replaced it with some last minute, gimmicky, worthless ass functionality.
That XYZ bullshit is going to get broken to hell when I throw it across the room in frustration! At least the PS2 controllers were durable..
And don't even get me started on the price that's out of reach for pretty much every casual gamer...
Good luck Sony, you've fucked up big.
Sean Dugan @ May 9th 2006 8:54AM
while it's fun (and easy) to rag Sony for these faults, the PS3 has the most to offer hardcore game players. Taking the best parts from other consoles and combining them in a familiar package may work well.
Crias @ May 9th 2006 8:59AM
@Sean Dungan
"while it's fun (and easy) to rag Sony for these faults, the PS3 has the most to offer hardcore game players."
Sony has basically said "F*** You!" to all casual gamers. "F*** off, we dont need you!"
Nintendo is saying "Hey, lets get those casual gamers playing! Let's get non-gamers playing!"
Sure... Sony has a fair bit to offer hardcore gamers. Nitendo has alot, IMO, to offer casual gamers... so Sony just handed Nintendo a big market share on a silver platter. What's worse for Sony? Nintendo, with its TRULY innovative design (Sony calls gyroscopic 2-handed Playstation-1-shelled controller innovative. um... no!), it could actually be offering something interesting to hardcore gamers. I can't say for sure, but I'm intrigued.
Gareth @ May 9th 2006 8:59AM
"the PS3 has the most to offer hardcore game players. Taking the best parts from other consoles and combining them in a familiar package may work well."
After experiencing Sony software in all its glory with NetMD Minidisk players, I'm yet to be convinced that Sony Xbox Live is going to be anything other than a glorified screensaver that no-one can get to work.
Don't even get me started on the fact that the vast majority of games that are released for Sony machines are ribbish that wouldn't know QA if it slapped them in the face.
Sony is quickly becoming synonymous with over-hyping, over-pricing and under-achieving in my book. It's going to take a very BIG change in their direction for me to buy a Sony console again.
Tony @ May 9th 2006 9:00AM
The key thing here, to me, keeps getting ignored in these posts.
The PS3 controller knows where you tilt it, like those old Sidewinders. Its the console equivalent of Kirbys Tilt and Roll.
Obviously the Wii controller has more to it than this (as mentioned it is more "wobust", but no details were gotten into here). It is a lot more than simply the idea that games that use motion are more likely on the Wii... the system is just better equipped for it since its more than simply a tilt sensor.
Myria @ May 9th 2006 9:03AM
It stuns me that everyone continues to act as though Nintendo is so bloody 'innovative' ('innovative', the 'paradigm' of the '00s). Motion sensors have been around forever, Microsoft had a motion sensing gamepad eons before the 'Wii' (Big-N deserves bankruptcy for that abomination alone) was ever thought of. Big-N steals from MS (among others) and everybody talks about how innovative they are? What, do you have to be on crack to be a Nintendo Fan-boy/girl, or what? I hear the same crap with the DS, "Ohhhh, they were the first ones with touch gaming!". Say what? I was playing games on my Palm a decade before the DS. Color touch gaming? Had that on my PPC. Color touch gaming with net access? PPC again. Huh, come to think of it, Nintendo does have a history of stealing from MS, don't they? I like my DS, but there isn't a single thing about it that hasn't been done a dozen times before.
Big-N decides to use ideas that have been around forever, Sony decides they will too, BFD -- the only thing surprising here is people making the ludicrous claim that Sony is stealing from Big-N when it wasn't Big-N's idea in the first place. Doesn't matter, though, both Big-N and Sony are going to discover the hard way (though I expect Sony already knows whilst Big-N is, as usual, at least for the past two generations, lacking in anything remotely resembling a clue) why it is that motion sensing has never been anything but a gimmick in gaming. Big-N can diss gamers all they want (talk about stupidity, it is never, ever a good idea to urinate all over your core demographic, even if your core demo is stupid enough to take it) but that won't change reality. After the crack wears off will come the sad realization that waving your arms around in the air is about as fun as having to run in place for an hour before your on-screen character will go from one town to another.
Oh, and the idea that waving a DVD remote around in the air is somehow more 'natural' and thus will bring in the non-gaming masses? Not even crack can explain that one, we're talking outright mental retardation as the only possible explanation. But then the name "Wii" (way to cement your "kiddie" image there, Big-N) pretty much already proved there are plenty of brain damaged idgets at Big-N HQ.
It saddens me to see Big-N fall so far. It stuns me to see how many fan-boy/girl lemmings are going to need medicating when they inevitably realize they just jumped off the reality cliff, too.