Wii Impressions: Red Steel [update 1]
Graphically, the game looks below even that of new GameCube titles, with blocky faces and low polygon counts abound. The lighting, however, did stand out as impressive; in one scripted scene, bullet holes pierce through a door and cylindrical beams of light enters the room. Load times, fortunately, were almost nonexistent.
Red Steel has a lot of potential. It fully utilizes Wii's remote (except for the recently-announced speaker) and the submission feature is a nice touch. What we dislike about the game could be fixed before launch -- and, for the most part, we hope it is. The gun battle scenes, if the controls are tightened, could stand alongside some of the best first person shooters, and we would forgive the graphics if the sensitivity was handled. That the game has so much potential is, ultimately, why we walked away as disappointed as we were. The lack of blood will help Nintendo sell this title -- available at launch -- to gamers of all ages. However, this game is not going to attract anyone to the Wii.
[update 1: fixed a few typos, cleaned up the language]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
KwadDamyj @ May 10th 2006 4:49PM
So I wasn't the only one who felt disappointed with it? Interesting. I knew something was funky with the graphics---even Timesplitters Future Perfect looked better...
...*sees there's a user here named YouWantHowMuchForAPS3?!?!?!?!?*
*laughs*
Chuck Norris @ May 10th 2006 4:53PM
AWESOME!
I will be the best sword man in the world!!!
Thanks Nintendo!
LethaL ImpuLse @ May 10th 2006 4:53PM
I REALLY hope it all turns out good before launch, for the Wii's sake. Nintendo really needs some good 3rd party titles.
lacking cleverness @ May 10th 2006 4:53PM
A shame...this game looked to be one of the bright spots for the Wii.
It's especially bad that the sword doesn't follow the remote's movements exactly. Sword fighting is the obvious killer application for the new control scheme, and no one seems to be capitalizing on it.
MCM @ May 10th 2006 4:53PM
Performing 'gestures' to pull of actions, like some kind of web browser, isn't what I had in mind. A disappointing summary.
At least the first party Wii titles are sounding a lot more solid and tuned.
Caoz @ May 10th 2006 4:54PM
They need to fix those graphics. A little better than a gamecube wont do for this type of game.
Omroth @ May 10th 2006 4:54PM
Well, I'm afraid if you want proper sword fighting you're going to have to play Determinance instead (my website link).
Ian
Tony @ May 10th 2006 4:58PM
I'm pretty sure they're running two versions of this. One that was essentially done on a GCN with the remote and one on a PC with the target look of the title. It sounds as though they've not moved it over to the final kits yet and have more to do before they're at that point. What I saw in the trailer (which I assume is from that PC target version) looked very strong, in my opinion.
So I guess it just depends on what exactly they're showing out there and whether or not they actually meet that "target" version when the game actually hits. I'm hopeful.
AnimalTaglits @ May 10th 2006 4:59PM
They still have a lot of time to fix it. I hope they do.
jabbertrack @ May 10th 2006 5:01PM
Not at all surprising. I could tell it was hard to control by watching the press conf.
James MacAulay @ May 10th 2006 5:02PM
I remember the commercials for the Nintendo power glove, and that Sega floormat that let you control games by disrupting the vertical IR beams it emitted ( http://www.vidgame.net/SEGA/peripherals.htm#12 ). They always made the commercials look like it would be such an intuitive way to control the game (with the kid using the activator punching and kicking to play Mortal Kombat or whatever) but the reality of the situation was, from everything I've heard, much worse.
It sounds like most of the Wii games are doing a good job with the controls, making them realistic and intuitive, and hopefully Ubisoft can improve things with this title in time for launch. I have high hopes for the Wii, but this kind of thing worries me.
Magnus @ May 10th 2006 5:03PM
Finally someone has something negative to say about the wii, this gives me hope. I'm tired of the ps3 getting a bad rap
reguy @ May 10th 2006 5:06PM
ok it sounds cool (wii games def. dont look good) but heres my question. with all the movements and such, how long before your arms get tired? 20 mins? thats not fair nintendo. I dont like how nin fanboys defend the graphics. with games like oblivion and g.r.a.w you want my eyes to look at wii sports? and even after the ps3 they dont give a price? yet all the people say nintendo stole the show? i sure hope you guys mean won by default
Saif @ May 10th 2006 5:07PM
There's no way this game could have simply translated real-time movements into actual sword slashes. That would require everyone to actually be good with a sword, which is not the case.
Attention gamer: you are not a master swordsman. You most likely will never be one. This is a game, and not a sword-training simulator. (Though that won't stop Jack Thompson from claiming that it is.)
Just imagine how unpopular Guitar Hero would be if it used a *real* guitar-playing scheme -- people would get frustrated and stop playing, because it takes diligent practice to be a guitar player. I'm sure the same holds true of swordplay. We play games because they're watered-down abstractions of real activites: when you take away the *work*, any activity becomes fun. Sim City does not make you a real urban planner. Advance Wars doesn't make you a real commanding officer. Guitar Hero doesn't make you a real musician. Remember that. If they did, it wouldn't be fun.
(Apologies to anyone who actually *has* studied sword technique -- in that case, you probably recognize that Red Steel would be no fun to the general public if it required real skill.)
is @ May 10th 2006 5:10PM
Could the reviewer please indicate:
a) If they had more fun than playing a fps with a normal controller, with a mouse or if the experiences were fairly incomparable?
b) If they were havving fun with they they didnt want to stop playing, as they were getting more used to the controls over the first few minuites, and if over those minuites you were conscious of becoming more familiar with the controls or if they felt stuck-in-a-rut and uninterested?
c) If they had to go through any setup with the wii remote, to adjust for their position in relation to the sensor bar (I had imagined this would precede any game, as with light gun games)
If these questions could be answered, I'll advertise jostiq by linking you from my myspace page (13 views THIS WEEK!!!!!!! THINK OF THE POTENTIAL!!!!!!)
ryan @ May 10th 2006 5:12PM
What TV's are the studio's using for their different games and how are they looking. I would hope that a studio would pick the "best" tv for the job of representing their product. Can you make a list of the various TV's used with games shown on them and how they look?
Clint @ May 10th 2006 5:15PM
God...this looks like my PS1 games. Is this really NEXT Generation gaming?
Kai Cherry @ May 10th 2006 5:17PM
Ross said:
"There is an issue with moving your remote slightly out of the range of the TV-mounted system, resulting in the cross hairs going stir-crazy off to the side of the screen."
This is interesting to me; Bluetooth is not line-of-sight.
What's THAT about?
-K
scab @ May 10th 2006 5:18PM
ok i admit ps3 is a bit pricy but it is worth it
come on compared to graphics like that ps3 and 360 have nothing to worry about exept nintendo fanboys
and reguy i agree with you.......i mean when i play video games i just want to sit on the couch and own my friends no jump around and dare i say (excercise) there are sports for that and ddr
crono141 @ May 10th 2006 5:21PM
What I am most looking forward to is the "games" #13 Saif said this game wasn't - Actual training.
It would be amazingly easy (and amazingly awesome) to make a "game" that actually trained you to use a sword. It could have multiple forms - chinese, japanese, european, middle eastern, etc. You could actually learn something, and better yourself for it.
These are the kinds of things I expect of Revolution.
existonfile @ May 10th 2006 5:24PM
To Clint:
No it's NOT "next gen", as Nintendo has stated many times over, this is NEW GEN. I think the graphics look great and nothing like PS1 games. You should get your eyes checked.
SuicideNinja @ May 10th 2006 5:26PM
"Just imagine how unpopular Guitar Hero would be if it used a *real* guitar-playing scheme -- people would get frustrated and stop playing, because it takes diligent practice to be a guitar player. I'm sure the same holds true of swordplay. We play games because they're watered-down abstractions of real activites: when you take away the *work*, any activity becomes fun."
Good point Saif.
I do play guitar and bass, so the idea of playing some plastic button-instead-of-strings guitar doesn't sound fun at all. It would feel like holding a fischer-price "my first guitar" or something. No thanks.
On the other hand, I also play golf. But I'm still interested in the Wii remote for that. I still think it has a lot of fun "potential".
Kai Cherry @ May 10th 2006 5:28PM
"God...this looks like my PS1 games. Is this really NEXT Generation gaming?"
Ok seriously?
I'm getting a bit tired of this bullshit :)
That looks as much like a "PS1 game" as much as you look like someone with 20/20 vision and good sense.
That said:
The system is a 7th Generation Era system. The last generation was 6, six is one less than seven, so yes, its a next-gen system with an enhanced previous generation graphics architecture.
See, the thing is, there isn't a "Video Games Generational Standards Body" that sets the baseline for these things, is there?
Developers and Nintendo have stated that the graphics are more capable than Nintendo's last/current console...so there ya go..."next generation".
They are certainly better than the PS2's graphics (but then what isn't, right) and every machine before it.
And as an Xbox 360 owner with *quite* a nice setup, let me tell you there is NOTHING MORE IRKSOME than obvious fuck-ups in a game at that resolution. Takes ya *right* out of it.
-K
mr.ortiz @ May 10th 2006 5:29PM
If the worst thing you can say about the controller is that it's "too sensitive", then I'm sold. It's just a matter of getting used to it. Compare this to Sony's Warhawk demo, where it looked more like the guy was wrestling the controller instead of playing the game.
reguy @ May 10th 2006 5:32PM
@#20
sir, i think you are the one that needs to get your eyes checked if you think those graphics look great. wii sports ARE ps1 graphics. but if you are happy with NEW GEN, more power to you. I'll stay with the work horses of ps3 and xbox 360 thank you.
Milamber_Cubed @ May 10th 2006 5:34PM
I hardly ever (in fact, never) comment on here, but somone give Saif a star for comment #13.
Also, if someone can show me any PS1 game that looks remotely (ha ha) like that then please do.
Nintendo always said that their games wouldn't be as graphically impressive as the other consoles. So people stop complaining. Also, comparing things like oblivion to WiiSports is a bit unfair. It's like me saying that the PS2 was rubbish by comparing Katamari Damacy (or whatever you think had less impressive visuals) to something like Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube.
In any case, Wii is NOT about the graphics. If Red Steel is not up to scratch then so be it. There are games that are getting very good responses - including Mario and Sonic (see IGN Wii) - this at least gives me some hope.
It could just be the case that there are some kinks that need to be worked out with the controller and then Red Steel will actually seem a lot better. After all, this is the first time that Nintendo are allowing a large number of people to use it. It could even just be interferance (i am sure I got the spelling wrong there).
Akuinnen @ May 10th 2006 5:36PM
20 Minutes of arm motion shouldn't really be a problem. If not, your arms will quickly get used to it.
This can't train swordfighting. Swordfighting includes footwork and resistance from the opponents weapon. I say this from study and practice under a teacher, not from watching movies.
I am dissapointed that you can't choose your own angles of attack with the controller.
Kai Cherry @ May 10th 2006 5:37PM
reguy,
I defy you to produce a single screenshot of a ps1 3d game that has textures at these resolutions and as many polygons.
Thanks,
-K
mr.ortiz @ May 10th 2006 5:43PM
@#24 (reguy), nobody's ever associated the term "work horse" with fun before.
I'm starting to think the people who are excited about the PS3 are the same people who go to see Uwe Boll movies.
MegaMatt @ May 10th 2006 5:45PM
I have a question. Since Wii launches in the 4th Quarter does that mean it can come no later than September 30, 2006?
Robotic House Plant @ May 10th 2006 5:45PM
I wondered if control was going to be a problem with the WII. This just confirms it. I think games are going to have to be made with a simplier control scheme and allow for a wide range of movement to compenstate for the unsteadiness of each person's hands.
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 10th 2006 5:51PM
I disagree Robotic, this is clearly an Ubisoft problem more than a control problem as the Nintendo made games have gotten more positive impressions
xpletiv @ May 10th 2006 5:55PM
#14:
No, I'm not a master swordsman--but neither is the NPC AI-driven virtual samurai I'm sword-fighting. Couldn't they have "translated real-time movements" and calibrated the AI accordingly? That's what I expected from the Wii, and without that ability--with mere abstractions--we have but an elaborate gesture reading mechanism.
Maybe that's not such a bad thing, but I think an accurate translation of movements would be more immersive.
And I lied. I am a master swordsman.
Robotic House Plant @ May 10th 2006 5:58PM
Ok, well I'll reserve my final opinion till I get my grubby hands on the game. I just hope the control is not too over simplified.
Art Guy @ May 10th 2006 5:59PM
Milamber_Cubed wrote: "Nintendo always said that their games wouldn't be as graphically impressive as the other consoles."
Wrong.
Iwata said this: "I don't think the Revolution's [graphics] will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube, I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as 'next generation' visuals.?
josh @ May 10th 2006 6:02PM
"There's no way this game could have simply translated real-time movements into actual sword slashes. That would require everyone to actually be good with a sword, which is not the case."
That's silly. Do light gun games require you to be a marksman or does DDR require you to be a dancer? No. A swordfighting game for wii where you actually use the remove as if it was the handle of a sword would be awesome. Sure the combat might not be as deep as a fighting game, but it would be fun and could be challenging.
RageOverdose @ May 10th 2006 6:05PM
#31 Robotic:
No, this doesn't confirm anything about control issues. It just confirms that this game needs tweaking. One of the few good things about G4's coverage last night was Red Steel (even at that, it wasn't all that great) but I could tell it wasn't as responsive as it should be when Adam was swinging. Basically, Ubisoft Paris needs to/could fix these things: graphics (not really needed to a great degree, but I'm sure it can be better), control (that is probably Ubisoft's fault, not the Wii itself), and framerate (it appeared to be a bit skippy, but it is expected on an early build). I saw the BLACK demo go from choppy and unimpressive to high framerate and nice graphics, this game can too.
I was, however, impressed (a little bit) by the graphics, but it was low res feed...(damn memberships)
jtatfsu @ May 10th 2006 6:06PM
OK, here's some thoughts. First, Nintendo thinks that this system will "bring people together" by making their games more friendly to women and children. I really don't see this happening. Why would a woman be more likely to play with a controller that you have to swish around like an idiot than with a controller with buttons?
Second, my girlfriend, for one, only likes a few games. One of the games she does like is Oblivion. Why does she like it? #1 reason: THE GRAPHICS! She likes it because she can walk around the beautiful landscape and "pick flowers" that she can make into potions. I must say, though, that another game that she liked was the Gamecube Zelda, because of it's cutsey cartoon graphics. In my opinion, women are much more likely to enjoy the systems that have better graphics.
Third, the wii controller is a bad gimic, plain and simple. Motion sensor technology has NEVER EVER been fun, period, starting with the power glove. I remember going to the Gameworks arcade in Dallas, TX and seeing the mockup of Tekken, or whatever it was, that used motion sensors to allow you to control the characters on the screen. It was an absolute joke. And that one let you use your feet and your hands at the same time. Realistically, the gyro feature can only be used for the simplest features, like a simple sword slash, but will be useless for more complex control schemes. Moreover, if you want to talk about online gaming, NOBODY would ever use the gyro controls online if they could use buttons, because movement sensors would never be as accurate or quick as pressing a button. Here is a short list of types of games where the gyro will be absolutely useless.
1) Any sports game other than perhaps tennis or curling
2) fighting games
3) FPS games
4) RTS games
5) many, many more.
Look, I like Nintendo actually, but only because I love their games. How you could possibly be blind to the fact that this Wiimote is a horrible idea is beyond me. If the Wii has any success, it will be as a platform for Nintendo-exclusive games played with a traditional controller, just like the Gamecube. The operative word in the last sentence is "GAMECUBE." It is no different from the gamecube, except that it is more underpowered than teh gamecube in comparison with its peers. I would bet my house that Nintendo will be in last place in US market share in 3 years time. But take heart, fanboys, Nintendo will live on as a game developer, and that is where they belong anyway. And hey, if the Wii eventually boasts an exhaustive list of past Nintendo games from its past systems, then it may continue to sell for 10 years after the real next-gen systems are gone, which would eventually net Nintendo a profit from their final console.
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 10th 2006 6:13PM
jtatfsu, have you even played any of the games? Seems you need to try them first before you start badmouthing the Wii.
reguy @ May 10th 2006 6:21PM
@ #27 ok mr k, i accept your challenge. if you re-read my comment i was talking about wii sports(ie tennis, golf, baseball) and if you want a ps1 3d game that looks better how about a little game called metal gear solid?
you're welcome
Jon Speed @ May 10th 2006 6:22PM
"Also, if someone can show me any PS1 game that looks remotely (ha ha) like that then please do."
Metal Gear Solid
Nuff Said
Antha @ May 10th 2006 6:22PM
Also did you guys know you are not restricted to the remote? You know there is regular controllers for this game right? The remote is just another way to play the game IF YOU CHOOSE.
RageOverdose @ May 10th 2006 6:29PM
@jtatfsu:
First, your opinion of women is really uninformed, IMHO. Your g/f likes pretty graphics, so all women do? Wow, guess what, I know more than 5 that don't give a damn, but I don't go stressing that the majority doesn't like super-OMG-graphics. Some do, some don't, just like men. Also, you said she liked the cartoony graphics of Wind Waker, which basically makes the whole opinion moot. Look at the new Mario; stylish, cartoony, and GOOD graphics.
Also, you have little to no idea to how these games are controlled. Sure, Joystiq hasn't had the best things to say, which is natural, being that these are EARLY BUILDS and still require tweaking. However, Zelda seems to be of good word on the Wii, and it has a rather complex system (more-so than some of these others, or so it seems), so, I think you need to think a bit harder about this, or just wait and play.
Besides, Nintendo isn't going for just women and children, but for non-gamers in general. Those WiiSports games are and example of their idea, much like the Brain Training games and Nintendogs on the DS, and those have done really well. It seems that it is going to be bringing people together, just you may not be part of it.
jonat3 @ May 10th 2006 6:30PM
Sheesh, one negative review (which wasn't really THAT negative) out of many positive ones, and we are already screaming DOOM and GIMMICK. FYI, shut up, read up on ALL the impressions first and THEN open your mouth. From what i can see, most of this stuff are mostly positive.
Ibere @ May 10th 2006 6:31PM
jtatfsu, I'm not sure about the wii-mote also, but it seems to work better than some seminal attempts in this field... Using your arcade example: have you ever played that Konami game where you are a police office and you can hide behand stuff dodge bullets? It's called Police 911, i think (it looks a bit like Lethal Enforcers 3)? The motion sensing in that game works pretty well and it is a lot of fun. I'm not sure if it will be perfect in Wii, but don't blame the technology, it is pretty advanced now and I'm sure that if it is well implemented, it can be a lot of fun.
Babylonian @ May 10th 2006 6:31PM
"This game is not going to attract anyone to the Wii."
...well, damn.
Darren Tilley @ May 10th 2006 6:32PM
The graphics look comparable to N64 graphics in all the games I've seen so far.
I think Nintendo have made the right move with their "out in left field" approach. The opinion polls all over the inernet prove that they are on the right track. But they could seriously loose foothold if everything looks like a mini-game.
The graphics so far suggest that the Wii is less powerful than the GameCube, which is obviusly not the case, but it "looks" that way.
The tennis game looks quite fun, but since you have no control over your character other than the way you swing your racket, it's nothing more than a mini-game. Not saying it won't be fun, but I think Nintendo is patronizing gamers in order to appeal to non-gamers. They need to appeal to both demographics if they are to succeed.
josh @ May 10th 2006 6:33PM
Why would a woman be more likely to play with a controller that you have to swish around like an idiot than with a controller with buttons?
The games that non-gamers (not just girls) I know tend to like are:
Karaoke Revolution
DDR
Katamari Damacy
Donkey Konga
WarioWare
Animal Crossing DS
Nintendogs
All games that have simple and mostly non-traditional control schemes.
They like these games because they can mostly pick them up and play... These are the kind of games Nintendo designed their new system for. It may or may not be a success, but their strategy makes sense.
DMON @ May 10th 2006 6:35PM
i've got dibs on jtatfsu's living room!
Shiro @ May 10th 2006 6:38PM
About the graphics:
Iwata did say that he thinks the graphics can easily be as good as the other systems (Or at least the 360), but I think what the other guy meant is power. It is definitely not nearly as POWERFUL as the other two systems, and with the strategy that Nintendo has, it very shouldn't be as powerful. That would drive the prices up a lot, which wouldn't convince a lot of non-gamers to pick it off the shelves.
And ym opinion on that is, Goood for Nintendo. They're sticking to what is necassary. As in, ABSOLUTELY necassary. I hate to make this comparison, but it's like Jagex' Runescape MMORPG. It has what some people would describe as horrific graphics. BUT, it gets the job done for people who have lower-powered computers and still want an MMO. The point is, they're STICKING TO THIER STRATEGY. Every company has a different idea of what they want to accomplish. Nintendo's goal here seems to be trying to bring everyone together by having them share a common interest: Video games. And they're doing that by making games appeal to EVERYONE, not the hardcore market.
Spoonfed point: Some people prefer top-notch fun over top-notch graphics. Therefore, Nintendo doesn't need the top-notch graphics to succeed.
And about the Wiisports comments from the PS3 fanboy: DON'T QUIT SCHOOL. Seriously. Did you miss the memo where they said that Wiisports was a super simplistic game only meant to get used to the controller functionality? Or are you just ignoring that so you can brag about how PS3's controller is so easy to learn that they don't need it? Either way, it doesn't take much brainpower to figure out how childish and dumb you're acting.