Wii impressions: Virtual Console
The classic controller is a good fit, albeit unfamiliar, for a gamepad that supports NES, SNES, N64, Sega Genesis, and TurboGrafx 16. Part of the sacrifice though, is that the classic controller can't offer an authentic retro experience and, of course, leaves us wondering, why bother?It's no secret that all of these platforms and their games are readily available in emulated formats for computers and other devices. And it's easy enough to invest in a gamepad that's as generic as Nintendo's classic controller. For Virtual Console to succeed, it's got to be clean, easy, and cheap.
That said, the E3 Virtual Console demo featured an elegant interface (the downloading process was not shown) and superb emulation software. The demo featured a sampling of beloved launch titles, including Super Mario Bros. (NES), Super Mario World (SNES), Super Mario 64 (N64), Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis), and Bonk's Adventure (TurboGrafx 16).
But there are still too many unanswered questions. A representative could not confirm if the interface featured in the demo would be the final version -- he suspected it was not. And there is still no official word about pricing. We do know that the classic controller will be sold separately, or perhaps packaged in with a special bundle. We don't know if Virtual Console games will be playable without the classic controller. And what about rumble support? Online multiplayer? Unique indie titles? The list goes on...
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Grant @ May 11th 2006 2:04AM
Why bother? Maybe because some people like doing things the legal way?
Ritz @ May 11th 2006 2:07AM
Agreed with Grant. Good to hear that the controller works well enough though. Beyond the whole retro feel. And I can imagine if there is demand for it, 3rd party companies will release retro design pads.
Shogan @ May 11th 2006 2:07AM
Not to mention X-Box live does it.
Kevin @ May 11th 2006 2:08AM
Well, I do think "why bother" is a valid question. Nintendo needs to make this appealing to me. I have had every nintendo system since NES... Needless to say, all of these systems except for the cube are out of service. However, I'd love one system where I could get all of my retro gaming action on w/ games like the n64 diddy kong racing or killer instinct on snes. Nintendo can make this appealing if the interface is flawless and the prices are great.
Kevin @ May 11th 2006 2:10AM
I bet nintendo makes the gamecube controller usable for the VC...
Andrew @ May 11th 2006 2:10AM
I am no Nintendo fanboy, and up until this article I considered your reports on the Wii balanced, despite what others have been saying. Now I read this and I'm scratching my head.
You really are being overly critical of a feature that you were able to actually play...and a service that won't be finalised for months to come.
bm @ May 11th 2006 2:10AM
Wow, why did I know this article was by JAMES as soon as I read the first few lines?
I'm going to another website for my E3 impressions, thank you.
Angus @ May 11th 2006 2:10AM
Legal way? Now where's the fun in that? :P
nah... but seriously though, this is gonna be the first console I buy (Gamin on PC since the original Lemmings), so I gots a buncha console to catch up on...
greatslack @ May 11th 2006 2:12AM
I suppose the "classic" controller is only for virtual console and not usable as an alternative to the wiimote (say for games such as madden, where according to the joystiq crew, the controls are horrible with the standard controller)
MosquitoControl @ May 11th 2006 2:13AM
I can guarantee I jump at more than a few titles, if the price is right.
I don't expect the price to be right.
How easy will N64 games be on that controller without having the 6 buttons?
Grant @ May 11th 2006 2:14AM
Kevin, sounds like it already is appealing to you. If Nintendo came out and said it was $20 per game, then "why bother" would be a great response, but as it is, it's kind of a negative attitude to take.
Grant @ May 11th 2006 2:15AM
The right analog stick = the C buttons
Jack Carver @ May 11th 2006 2:19AM
It looks like the super nintendo controller with two analog,having said that it should work with super nintendo games just fine,as well nes,sega,N64,and whatever else, even tho it dont look like N64 controller.
Im not sure what you trying to say?Are you trying to say that the controller should transform into all the clasic controllers?
Not all Wii games will be using the Wiimote,like Super Smash Brothers and Im sure there will be others.So I think thats why they made it.
Why didnt you take some more pictures from different angles, and given a better description on how it feals.To me it looks good, and it sems it can do anything modern controller should be able to do.But I like to know how it feals, a better description would be nice,I mean why bother ?
Wii looks good except it lacks some serios power,the bigest mistake Nintendo did this time around.
n1ce_hat @ May 11th 2006 2:20AM
hey Kevin, scratch Killer Instinct off your list.
Apparently the Wii VC will not play Rare titles..
Don't quote me, though..
jack @ May 11th 2006 2:21AM
I think after this article, its clear that this guy,is anti nintendo. He's against the virtual console because the conroller isn't like the old ones? That's an idiotic statement.
Alot of people don't have access to the old systems and games and would love to play these classic games over again. If nintendo had revealed all their information about the virtual console he would bashing them for giving too much information
James @ May 11th 2006 2:25AM
They might as well change the name Joystiq to Wiimote since it fits with the coverage.
Bill @ May 11th 2006 2:26AM
Seeing as how the "classic" controller has all the same buttons and whatnot as the Gamecube controller, I wouldn't be suprised if you could use a Gamecube controller for classic games, since there are GC controller ports on the system.
alexadroog @ May 11th 2006 2:28AM
well the back of the contoller has addon indentions so maybe a middle piece to add on that comes with the controller for n64 games dunno just a guess...but i did read that it will have add ons to it...probrobly in the same box.
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 2:31AM
So your big complaint is the controller doesn't give you that retro feel, and yet it works fine, Okay, any doubts I had about your bias are gone.
Exick @ May 11th 2006 2:32AM
I believe the "Why bother?" question was in reference to the impression that the classic controller could not give the full retro experience. I'm not really sure what that means. There isn't going to be a single controller design that would be 100% comfortable on all the classic platforms, so I'm not sure what the expectations were for this. So far it sounds like there's enough to get excited about.
As for Rare games, the only ones you'll see on the Virtual Console are DK games. Microsoft owns Rare now, so I don't imagine they'd be all that keen on letting Nintendo cash in on their property.
skyman8081 @ May 11th 2006 2:32AM
If the virtual console supports Rogue Squadron, I'll be all over it.
Shame that they won't have the wonderful fan-made texture packs that have been coming out recently.
Wien @ May 11th 2006 2:35AM
Man, Joystiq is great for news, terrible for insight and opinions. This entire E3 impressions ordeal has been one giant "Bash Nintendo" fest for seemingly no other reason other than the fact that its "different". Granted I will take the madden critique for what its worth, I never had much faith in the replication of the madden football experience on the Wii from an "outside" developer (ie not the usual EA studio that develops all the other madden games), but eveything else seems totally skewed. This article has to be the tipping point. Why bother? Because they CAN. Obviously, nintendo isnt going to make a Transformer-esque controller that morphs into replications of NES, SNES, Turbographix 16, and the Genisis controllers. I thought the snes style retro controller is a very worthy adaptation that will work pretty well across all boards. Other points made in this are just flat out retarded. Rumble support? For Super Mario Bros on the NES or Battletoads? Are you fucking kidding me? The only games that would even utilize it would be gamecube games and N64 games. You can play gamecube games with the GC controller, and N64 games alone dont justify the added cost of jamming rumble technology into the controller that is meant to be used universally across all older (virtual) platforms. Online multiplayer also sounds like a big fat NO. I dont recall any online multiplayer games for the TG16 or the N64. I know Sega had that one thingy (Xlink? X something..) but come on.. only 5 people used that thing. Gamecube had ONE online game, anyways. It would be nice if they took the time to incorperate such things, but realistically speaking.. well.. its just not realistic at all. What else do you want, buddy? Perfect Dark one players on the VC to be able to play online vs Pefect Dark 2 players on the 360? That would've been awesome, nintendo shat down thier own throats by not including that.
I cant wait to see what the next Wii impression is. I imagine it'll go something like this:
Im totally unimpressed by this game. I have to stand up and swing a remote around to hit a tennis ball. I mean COME ON! Why cant i just press A like in Top Spin and Virtua Tennis and Smash Court? Nintendo is dropping the ball with this "change the way the game is played" bullshit. The game also doesnt support online mass multipler 200 vs 200 simultaneous tennis battles with thousand dollar cash prizes for the victors. Lame.
josh @ May 11th 2006 2:35AM
why do you people even read this blog if you don't like it's bias? go somewhere else if you don't like it.
Final Atomic Buster @ May 11th 2006 2:36AM
Why bother? N64 games in 480p is why.
shaoron @ May 11th 2006 2:36AM
WOOAH! WOOOOAH WOOAH!!!!
wait a minute....
i know that you can play NES, SNES and N64 games using the virtual console...
BUT SEGA GENESIS GAMES!?
Matt @ May 11th 2006 2:37AM
I find it amusing that everyone keeps bitching about the perceived anti-Nintendo bias on Joystiq, but I haven't heard thing one from you guys about the pro-Nintendo bias that other sites have. Apparently, it's OK to have a bias, so long as it's one that the Nintendo trolls agree with.
Matt @ May 11th 2006 2:38AM
Why do they read this blog if they don't like it?
Clearly, because they like to bitch, bitch, bitch.
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 2:42AM
Hey Matt, what Pro Nintendo bias are you referring to please point it out
Grant @ May 11th 2006 2:44AM
Why would we talk about other sites here?
gjd @ May 11th 2006 2:44AM
Uh, I think that controller is a reasonable compromise. I suppose you *could* buy a separate one for each console, but then that would be expensive, you'd have to swap out controllers when you change games, you'd have to store them, and all that stuff.
mercatfat @ May 11th 2006 2:45AM
@Kevin
Sorry to bring this up, but: "needless to say, all of these systems except for the cube are out of service."
did you run over them with a truck? clean them with corona? also, have you heard of the "blow trick"?
a nintendo product breaking without SEVERE abuse is rarer than a detestable looking kitten.
Firouzi @ May 11th 2006 2:48AM
I read elsewhere (multiple sources) that Madden was one of the best Wii controlled games at the show so far, being very intuitive and natural. This from a game that's still in experimental stages, they havn't yet added leading your receiver with the remote etc.
Smellslikepie @ May 11th 2006 2:49AM
@ #7. "Wow, why did I know this article was by JAMES as soon as I read the first few lines?"
Because within the first few lines, in fact the second line, it says : "Posted May 11th 2006 2:00AM by James Ransom-Wiley"
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 2:49AM
I've never seen any pro Nintendo bias on any of the other major sites, most of the sites have a slight skepticism of anything nintendo does.
spike117 @ May 11th 2006 2:53AM
This is the DS all over again. "Why are there two screens?", "It looks fugly, I want my PSP, you see that screen!", "I find the touchscreen absolutly useless", "Worst graphics ever, did you see Madden on the PSP!?"....blah blah blah.
Its an easy stance to take. If anyone disagrees with you they are a Nintendo fanboy, its a position where you cannot have any actual backlash for your statements.
In this case however there is obviously something wrong. Your honestly ragging on the Virtual Console after praising it for having top notch Emulation?
Every review I read elsewhere and then come to Joystiq I have to do a double take. "Wait a second what was I reading before?" and I literally have to go back and read the other reviews.
What is up? Either it is the author or everyone else is retarded.
player1 @ May 11th 2006 2:56AM
You guys make me laugh. There's nothing wrong with james' comments on the virtual console.
I've already played all these old ass games years ago so this does nothing for me at all. Nintendo could completly remove the virtual console and i would'nt give a hoot. If i want these retro games i'll just download them off the net in a couple of minutes and play them with my crappy star pad that i paid $8 for.
If you are interested in this though it's been confirmed by the guy who made smash Bros Brawl that the GC pad works on the Wii. The Wii-mote does'nt work with Smash bros.
Ben Cordes @ May 11th 2006 2:56AM
I agree with everyone so far who has stated that Joystiq isn't the best place for reliable E3 hands-on impressions.
In other words, E3 + Joystick = "Snakes on a Plane" = Crap
Jack Carver @ May 11th 2006 2:59AM
I have no problem with somebody criticising something as long as they have a point.
But there is no point to this,except the guy just made himself look like a fool.
I mean wtf..why bother...?that makes no sense at all.
rofl..why bother.
Why no description on how the controller compares to other controllers,like cube,xbox,ps,and so on.
This all he says about the controller:The classic controller is a good fit...rofl.
First of all is not classic controller, is new,but it has a classic look,and saying its a good fit,says nothing.
Again why bother with this post?
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 3:00AM
player1,
Has it occured to you that you aren't the only person Ninteno is targeting with the VC?
premd gamer @ May 11th 2006 3:01AM
Here's what Wii needs: Cable adaptors so you can plug in your old pads. I can't imagine it's be difficult- hell, I put together a thing to use my PS1 pad on my computer through the parallel port when I was 15 with instructions from the internet. Nintendo fanboys, of course, need to shut up. Remember the Virtual Boy and the Power Glove? Nothing you could say could convince any kid that these were anything less than the greatest things invented. As we soon found out, however, they sucked. Big time. Innovative does not equal improved. It sounds like they may have a good product this time, but sloppy implementation from third parties can kill you in a heartbeat (I'm looking at you Atari 2600). So approach this thing with a grain of salt and allow Nintendo to prove to you that it's good instead of claiming any negative press is due to bias.
player1 @ May 11th 2006 3:04AM
Avinash_Tyagi
Yes, but it's a pitty that it has'nt occured to the people who say "who cares about the graphics" that not everyone likes shit graphics. LOL.
mercatfat @ May 11th 2006 3:07AM
"Has it occured to you that you aren't the only person Ninteno is targeting with the VC?"
Self-importance? On the internet? NEVAR>
Seriously, it's like saying iTunes would never work because people can just pirate music and the bitrate "sucks."
The fact is, I see people all the time trying to find rom sites (the second easiest google search on the planet) and emulators (the easiest google search on the planet). There is most certainly a demand for this stuff.
Brained @ May 11th 2006 3:09AM
Wiley got himself a nice fat check from Microsoft, you better believe it.
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 3:10AM
I only claim Bias when one site is the only negative voice. Pretty much every other site has given generally positive impressions of the Wii(Some bugs left to work out, yes, but overall thay liked what they saw)
mercatfat @ May 11th 2006 3:11AM
"Yes, but it's a pitty that it has'nt occured to the people who say "who cares about the graphics" that not everyone likes shit graphics. LOL."
The only thing better than self-importance is defacating all over your credibility by adding an "LOL" to the tail of your comment.
The graphics may not be "stellar" but they're far from "shit." ROAKFDL
Avinash_Tyagi @ May 11th 2006 3:12AM
How are the graphics Shit? Most impressions say its slightly better than the cube, the cube had very good graphics last gen.
Linear_soul_child @ May 11th 2006 3:14AM
I haven't seen a bias for Nintendo on any other sites. ANY. It's not everyone here at Joystiq, but there are a few that really seem to be unfairly reviewing it. Can the honest people at Joystiq please have a word with the offenders. Thankyou.
Tao68 @ May 11th 2006 3:19AM
Joystiq needs another direction: i'm usually so glad to come here everyday, but Mr James Ransom-Wiley didn't make my day on this day: i like objective reviews, and i accept any criticism when it's not "unidirectional"... yes, even when it's Nintendo-related...
But after the read of your last articles, all i may think of is this is lame Nintendo bashing, and i'm sick of it, i've readed that kind on stuff on way too many sites, blogs and forums...
Your opinions, dear sir, are the exact opposite of most of the great reviews i've readed yesterday and today: so, are you an attention whore trying to stand out of the wiiners, may i ask? What's the point? Please the most stupid Nintendo bashers out there, to have even more stupid comments on your blog? Well done, a real pleasure to read, now go get some sleep, and try to have fun on the Wii, if you're able to do so...
Arex @ May 11th 2006 3:59AM
"And it's easy enough to invest in a gamepad that's as generic as Nintendo's classic controller."
Yeah, you can invest in a controller as generic as the original NES pad (digital cross, start, select, B and A), which would also work fine for TG-16 games (minus the turbo function). But then it wouldn't work very well as a Genesis pad or SNES pad, would it? And forget about N64. Or do you think buying separate controllers for each console is the way to go?
"Part of the sacrifice though, is that the classic controller can't offer an authentic retro experience and, of course, leaves us wondering, why bother?
...
For Virtual Console to succeed, it's got to be clean, easy, and cheap."
So which it, do you want authentic or do you want clean, easy and cheap? Since you ask "why bother" with the Virtual Console if the controller can't provide a completely "authentic retro experience," that suggests you would prefer controllers that more closely approximated the original gamepads. But making users buy separate controllers for each emulated system is neither clean nor cheap. You can't have it both ways.
If you intend to play games across all available virtual console platforms, and you want to get a truly authentic experience, you'd need TWO NES-style pads, TWO Genesis-style pads, FOUR TurboGrafx-style pads (technically five, but the Wii supports that many controllers), possibly FOUR SNES-style pads (for SNES Bomberman) and FOUR N64-style controllers. How is that feasible idea? Don't forget you'd need to do this even if you wanted the truly authentic experience via pc emulation.
Given the alternative, suddenly picking up four classic controllers for the Virtual Console sounds a LOT more reasonable. Those controllers will more or less allow for perfectly authentic NES, TG-16 and SNES experiences as well as decent Genesis and N64 experiences. So I think that answers the question of "why bother." At least it does for me.
Kylara @ May 11th 2006 4:00AM
" Seriously, it's like saying iTunes would never work because people can just pirate music and the bitrate "sucks." "
I completely agree, even if I was one of those people.
That said, I hate emulators. Despise them. And this sounds very sad on the internet, but I also like legally buying games.
Personally, I won't buy any N64 games as I still have an N64 that works great. But anything prior? Consumer with expendable cash, ready to go, with one req: that the games are cheap. If that's satisfied, I'm good to go.