Girl gamers applaud choice
One of the features in the upcoming Mass Effect is the ability to choose your gender. For a game which revolves around one central character (Commander Shepard) and the related storyline, it's an interesting addition, though not entirely novel.However, it may have more appeal than a first glance would imply. We spoke to several female gamers at E3 who insisted that being able to play a female character is a crucial differentiator between games they like and games they love. It doesn't strike a game from the favourites list -- many of these women loved Halo 2 -- but it's a selling point that turns out to be surprisingly important to the female audience.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
elle @ May 12th 2006 12:34AM
Is it really surprising? Some of us prefer to play characters we can better relate to. In RPGs where we can create our avatars, I don't find myself ever making a male character because I honestly wouldn't know how to act.
Lovey Dovey @ May 12th 2006 12:37AM
Of course it is. This is one of the reasons I wish THQ would allow playable female characters. I Have a feeling that there is a pretty sexist under tone to saints Row and THQ doesn't have the time or know how to be more gender neutral.
On a side note doesn't bioware give you this option in all of their games.
Geoff @ May 12th 2006 12:39AM
You could choose gender in Knights of the Old Republic I & II. Also, in Jade Empire you could choose from a number of protagonists of different gender. BioWare does wonderful things.
007craft @ May 12th 2006 1:26AM
You cant be serious... Girl gamers dont like games if they cant play as females? Give me a break. You dont see me demanding the addition of male playable characters in tomb raider and perfect dark.
I would certainly not be more intrigued to play a game based on the characters gender. If a game stars a guy character, thats great. If a game stars a girl character, thats great too.
Why would anyone be inclined to like a game more because it allows a playable character who is the same sex as they are?
She Who Survives @ May 12th 2006 1:29AM
I applaud this idea, if only on the shaky moral ground of gaming equality between genders!
Yet, the gender-choice factor never made a difference to my gaming experience. I can't say it's made a difference to any of my girlfriends' tastes in gaming.
I have yet to have a female friend decry the tantalizing battlelust of Battlefield because she's not been able to select a hearty female warrior dressed in cuddly pink camo. Contrary to popular gaming belief, we're not THAT superficial.
Frankly, if this were ever widely implemented, I think the bigger cheer will be from the male faction who is sick of looking at another boy's bottom/back of the head/other graphic while playing.
Danno @ May 12th 2006 1:46AM
I doubt that they actively dislike games where they can't have female avatars, but I could certainly imagine that they would enjoy the option to pick an avatar that the identify more closely with.
What I'd like to see is if you can choose homosexual relationships in the game (if the game does in fact include romantic relationships) and if some options open or close based on your gender.
Lovey Dovey @ May 12th 2006 2:12AM
007craft. Playing as a guy is great. playing as a girl is great. Having the option to choose is better. Having the option to choose allows you to make the charcter more like someone you can relate to.
I loved Kotor because It was one of the few games where I could play a black character I could relate to.
Danno. You could have a homosexual relation ship in jade empire.
V1L3 @ May 12th 2006 2:12AM
Is it just me, or does this seem the wrong way around?
You would think guys would have more qualms about playing a female character, but it's never bothered me in the slightest in the Resident Evil series.
Or is it that they don't mind playing male characters as long as they LOOK like females - ala Final Fantasy?
Rob X. @ May 12th 2006 2:23AM
"You could choose gender in Knights of the Old Republic I & II."
Though I never played the second KotOR, I did appreciate how the game changes slightly depending upon the gender as your character develops some sexual tension between either Bastilla or Carth. I never could see if it would turn into a full blown relationship with either though.
bbalonis @ May 12th 2006 2:53AM
mc might be a chic, has anyone seen his wii?
Wil @ May 12th 2006 3:03AM
I find that most female gamers are actually more sexist than non-female gamers and most guys. Most of the time they seem to get off that "You just lost to a GIRL". You know what I say to that?: "Cool. It's clear that you are a better gamer than me."
Come on now, you know I'm right. In this day and age race, gender, and age doesn't matter. You're either better or worse than the person you are playing against.
Anyyyyyways... I don't care if I play a female character or a male character. I'm usually in it for the story and the gameplay so either way it doesn't affect me.
aerosaucer @ May 12th 2006 4:07AM
It's not "surprising" at all. It's got to be pretty annoying for girl gamers when their favorite hobby never seems to present female characters except as either sex objects or as sex objects who also constantly need rescuing.
Would you guys like gaming as much if you reversed the gender of every game? Peach must save Mario? The helpless Sonic gets captured and a pink hedghog in a dress is the only one who's strong enough to save him? Master Chief whimpers like a defenseless schoolgirl and Mistress Chief protects him?
Yeah, I thought so. Stop assuming women should enjoy being constantly told they are defenseless and that their only worth is in their looks.
elerra @ May 12th 2006 5:17AM
"Peach must save Mario?"
http://ds.ign.com/objects/711/711851.html
"Tired of always seeing Mario save the princess? Your pleas have been heard as the roles are reversed in Nintendo's Mario off-shoot Super Princess Peach. This time around, series star Mario has been kidnapped. You take control of Princess Peach and must work your way through a series of 2D side scrolling stages in order to save the classic mascot character. She has at her side Kassaa, a magical umbrella. Kassaa can be used for a variety of actions, from striking enemies, to helping Peach float."
Although, considering that her super powers are basicially bitchy mood swings... amusing, but still wrong.
Woeisyou @ May 12th 2006 6:18AM
Of course choice is good. It's always a good thing. I'm sure a lot of guy gamers like choice as well. I'd be surprised if they didn't. I do, at least. :P
"I find that most female gamers are actually more sexist than non-female gamers and most guys. Most of the time they seem to get off that "You just lost to a GIRL". You know what I say to that?: "Cool. It's clear that you are a better gamer than me.""
Yes, that would be my reaction to it as well. Although, I've yet to come across a girl I've met face to face who has beaten me at an FPS. ;) (That is to say, I don't know what the case is online since I don't ask people's genders there.)
wii are pants @ May 12th 2006 8:24AM
Guy's will play as Lara Croft. Anytime.
Neko Tsukimi @ May 12th 2006 8:57AM
Pretty much everything I want to say has been said. The gaming world is truely a man's world. Most games are made with guys in mind figuring the girl's gonna be in the kitchen making guys sandwiches and when they do think about girls when they're making games, they either put out some crap like Barbie's Horse Adventure, or they think about how to make the girls in the game sexier. Being able to play as a girl in a game is really a BIG bonus. I feel largely neglected in the gaming world and playing with a female character or even a character that wears pink (I love pink XD) makes me feel giddy.
And there's a reason why guys don't complain about mind playing a chick in a game. The games out there with only girl protagonists are eye candy (Samus is included too, 'cos everyone dreams of playing with her outside of her suit) so they're just like the sexy little tarts that need saving except they're the ones doing the saving (but they're still eye candy).
I really do appreciate being able to play as a girl so it doesn't feel so defeminitizing so whenever I can, I take advantage of it. If I have to play as a burly guy, I enjoy it still if it's a fun game. It won't decrease the value of it.
jadenguy @ May 12th 2006 9:19AM
wait, samus is eye candy? you only see samus eye candyish once per playthrough. it's almost easier to talk to a real woman than to play through the whole game perfectly!
i don't think everybody can agree on what is the correct image of a female, because people complain about princess peach AND samus, and i don't know what other options there are. i read a site that mentioned jade form BG&E, and they said that she was pretty much ok except that she was motherly to a child, and that's a stereotypical trait. then there are classic feminism views against contemporary, sexualized objects vs. sexual beings and what not. i mean, you really can't please everybody, or anybody sometimes. that's why the hospitality and public service industries are so sucky to work for.
shivr @ May 12th 2006 9:31AM
Wil: agreed, though not all females are like that. Most of the girls (gamers, not girlfriends) I saw/met at magfest '04 weren't there to prove anything, they just wanted to play. A lot of the "you just got beat by a girl!" comments came from the male peanut gallery watching the game, not the girls themselves.
Sexism and gaming (and most other mass media entertainment) is pretty complex, as convenient as these more cut and dry answers are. That said I also don't think its a -huge- issue that needs to be addressed right now (I'm more concerned with competent art direction and gameplay implimentations and use of unique concepts), but more options in regards to gender and race with reduced stereotyping, either in choices in a single game or just the main characters in general, would be nice and probably help expand the market.
The concept for this game is intreiguing at least. Are you "Commander Shepard" whether male or female or a different character depending on which gender you choose? Definatly adds some replayability draw, if the game itself is good enough to warrent it :)
Ethan Thomas @ May 12th 2006 9:49AM
-007craft
The reason they complain so much is because everybody has to bring some sort of equality crap into everything these days. It's seriously gotten ridiculous. Me? I'll play as a guy, I'll play as a girl..whatever. I don't care. As someone already mentioned, I don't see guys pushing for a male character in Tomb Raider or Perfect Dark. It's just the way of the world now. You can't just make a game anymore. You have to make a game and make sure you don't offend any race or gender. Otherwise, you'll wind up like Bethesda and get bad publicity because you have a couple of skill points in one category for males and one for females. FFS, I'm not even getting into this because the whole situation is stupid, ridiculous, and totally asinine. My last word on this: If you can choose, then choose. If not, suck it up and quit griping about it or don't play the game. Don't whine about your sexist B.S. accusations. It's a game people. It's supposed to be an escape from reality. And women throwing around sexism crap is definitly reality, so the less I have to deal with that in my games, the better. Newsflash: nobody cares about your inferiority complex. Am I a "male-chauvinist" or whatever? Nope. I'm just someone who's sick of the whining going on and wish people would stfu about it and get over it.
-Danno
Can we please not bring in that whole "Brokeback Mountain" aspect of things into games? If we live to see the day that Nintendo reveals Luigi has a special "feeling" about Mario, then I'm done with gaming forever.
wii are pants @ May 12th 2006 9:53AM
what sort of eye-candy would the average female gamer want if she was stuck playing a male character? most male protagonists in video games these days are square-jawed, baritone-voiced, muscle-men...is that an unrealistic stereo type for us men to live up to? yes. do we try to live up to it? no.
Brinstar @ May 12th 2006 11:06AM
To commenter #4:
If the tables were turned, and the majority of videogames featured characters that were only women, and the vast majority of games were explicitly marketed for, made by, and made for women? How would you feel, being in a minority? How would you feel if videogame companies were not interested in making characters that you identified with more easily? How would you feel if focus groups excluded you (http://www.lake-desire.com/newgameplus/index.php/archives/119) from their surveys just because you are male? How would you feel if videogame makers didn't consider male views to be valid because the common thinking is that men don't play videogames?
Try looking at it from a woman's perspective, and you might understand why we would like more choices and more optiions.
I won't avoid a game just because it doesn't give me a choice to pick my gender, but it certainly makes a game more attractive to me if I am given the option.
If Fable (PC) had given me the option to play as a woman, I would have been more inclined to buy it and play it, despite the fact that I have loads and loads of games to play and to occupy my time. But because it didn't offer that choice, it was pretty much the same as any other game, and I didn't find it difficult to refrain from buying it, and to get something else. Fable isn't a bad game, and it's something I would like to play eventually, but it didn't offer me an additional incentive to buy it, and one of the factors that would have pushed me to buy it would have been the ability to choose your gender.
Ethan Thomas @ May 12th 2006 11:38AM
If the ability to choose gender sells you on a video game, you have my pity..that's all I have to say.
Brinstar @ May 12th 2006 11:53AM
I didn't say it was a selling point, I said that it was an additional incentive to purchase a game that I already know is worth playing. With so many good games out there, you don't have time to play them all. You have to make choices and you have to prioritise.
Brinstar @ May 12th 2006 11:56AM
Also, you've completely missed my main point about trying to see the woman gamer's point of view. In fact, you've totally ignored it.
Neko Tsukimi @ May 12th 2006 12:25PM
I feel the same as Brinstar. Gaming is different from a woman's perspective. I too feel that if the gaming world were dominated by women with nothing but games catering to women, it would be the guys doing flips and cheering to find out that in Halo 3, you don't have to play as Mistress Princess, but you can also play as Master Chief. Wow, that would be an interesting world :D
007craft @ May 12th 2006 1:46PM
I played guild wars for a brief while. The character I choose was female. I dont know why I did it, I just did. If games where more for women I still wouldent be more inclined to purchase a game that allowed me to choose a male.
If Master chief was a girl (heh maybe he is lol), then I would still enjoy halo, as long as halo still had the enjoyable atmosphere and killing of aliens. I really couldent care less if im playing as a guy or girl.
You sayin you would of played fable had they let you pick a girl is really dumb. I still havent played the new tomb raider game. I know its good (played the demo), but like you said, I havent got around to it yet. I would not get around to it any quicker tho had it featured a man as a playable character.
And you complain about something that is reflected in real life. You dont see an even ratio of men:women in the military. There are many more male soilders then female soilders. So is it surprising to come into the shooting genre and be upset that you play as a male the majority of the time?
A game is fun because its fun, not because of a gender within it. When I was a kid, I used to play the board game "mall maddness" with my sisters all the time (dont laugh). I enjoyed the game alot (along with monopoly of course :p), but I didnt ever wish they had me purchasing a set of dumbells instead of fasion shoes from the stores in the game. I wouldent of been anymore inclined to play it had it been focused on men.
Lovey Dovey @ May 12th 2006 3:13PM
Some of you peeps need to learn how to read. No one is suggesting that girls don't like playing as guys in games. We are saying girls like having the choice.
Look at it this way. I liked fable because it was a solid game with a good, if not shallow fighting system. I would have loved it had I been able to choose my race, gender, weight, height, ect. I love it when devolpers give me choices. It allows me to take a game my have only liked at first and turn it into a game I love.
That doesn't mean there should always be a choice. Some times I just want to be told a story. Sometimes I want to help create a story.
If you "Hard Core gamers" ever want gaming to be taken seriously as a source of entertainment, you have to at least listen to 51% of the population, and not call them cry babies when they voice there oppion.
devian @ May 12th 2006 3:19PM
I actually just asked the girlfriend that exact question, and she gave the same response as above.
To quote her "If we really want to get into the game, we want to look down and see our own female counterparts. Last thing I want is to get deeply immersed in a game, just to look down and say "Oh, I have a penis"."
Ethan Thomas @ May 12th 2006 5:22PM
-Brinstar
I'm not ignoring your P.O.V. I'm simply pointing out the fact that offering such options in MANY MANY games would totally ruin the experience all-together.
-Lovey Dovey
Speaking as a hardcore gamer, I care about gaming being considered a form of entertainment. However, if you ruin all my games, then I'm really not going to care. And that's EXACTLY what will happen if developers have to rethink everything because everyone wants to have their own little "choices" included. You thought Oblivion took forever to develop? And look, they STILL caught grief from the female audience over a seriously-b.s. complaint. If game designers and developers took the time to accomodate everyone's little wants and needs, we wouldn't have any games to play at all. I think the reason this hits me so hard is because I'm a writer and artist. When I sit down to write, or draw, it's the same as when the game developer sits down to make his game. You have an idea in your head that's perfect, it's YOUR idea. So you put it in motion. If you have to sit there and edit your idea for everyone until they're all happy, which will never happen by the way but still, it's no longer YOUR idea. You've just created something like everyone else on the market. Congratulations. Campaigning to cram these kinds of changes into everything is the same as campaigning to kill off originality in it's purist form. I don't expect you to understand or even get what I'm trying to say. You've made up your mind on the situation, and people are ridiculously hard to sway and not worth the effort. But the farthest thing on my mind when I play a game with a female lead is, "OOOH...can I make her a guy instead? What? I can't? Oh..well this game sucks now. I so would have enjoyed it better if I could have been a guy, but since I can't, this really sucks. Everygame should give me just what I want." It's not about what you want. It's not about what I want. It's about an idea that talented individuals have which they put into an interactive media to be enjoyed my you and me both. Who are you, or I for that matter, to tell them what they should or shouldn't add? Don't like it? Don't buy it. But stop the inferiority complex issues please. It's grown so old and should be a problem that we only have to deal with here in reality. Support originality, not the "whine about it so maybe next time they'll make a game based around MY needs..forget what they think is right." attitude.
Lovey Dovey @ May 12th 2006 6:11PM
Thomas I too am a writer, unpublished want to be really. I understand what your posting and agree with you on most points.
"That doesn't mean there should always be a choice. Sometimes I just want to be told a story. Sometimes I want to help create a story." thats a quote from my post.
Some games Like Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Saints Row are about the devolper and end user working together to tell an amazing story. Other games like Beyond Good and Evil, and Metal Gear Solid are about the gamer experiencing the developers great story.
Clearly you are a writer. That was one of the most well written post I have ever seen on joystiq.
Hellrose @ May 12th 2006 6:48PM
Ethan, I find your comment far too reductionary. I understand that you feel defensive, especially if youre a writer yourself, but no serious female gamer will say that they hate a game only because it doesn't provide an option for a female character. My favourite FPS games are HL2 and Farcry, neither of which have female protagonists.
Maybe there's a biological difference between females and males when it comes to digesting game content.. I like to think there isn't, because I don't believe in biological reasoning. However, the fact is that RPGs which generally provide female options to lead characters have the highest female market penetration. The market is big and growing. It wouldn't be smart for any developer to ignore it willingly.
Designing interaction is very different from writing a script. You may have the most complete idea with the perfect plot in your mind, but the very fact that it's interactive means that whoever is playing it may have a completely different experience of it than the way you envisioned it. One way to go is to make the game more and more like a movie, to a point where the player has very little choice at all. The other way is to try and understand your users the way all great designers, not just game designers do. I think there's a reason why the title reads 'Game Designer' as opposed to 'Game Director'.
Will I love a game even though it doesn't provide a female choice for the main character? Possibly.
Am I more willing to try it if it does, so that I can find out? Probably.
The choice is the developer's to make.
Hellrose @ May 12th 2006 6:57PM
I would like to add that I liked Metroid when I thought Samus was male.
I LOVED Metroid when I found out she was female.
Which completely confirms Jennie's finding.
Ethan Thomas @ May 12th 2006 7:42PM
- Lovey Dovey
I appreciate the compliment. It would mean alot coming from anyone...it means even more coming from a fellow writer. I know if you just glance at my writing, you might find me to come off somewhat as a jerk or anti-women-in-games person..I hope not, as that is NOT the idea I want to promote NOR is it true. I'd like nothing more than for people of both genders, of all ages, to be able to sit down and enjoy a good game. That said, SOMEHOW, I missed that part of your post that you requoted. I apologize for that, and I'm really unsure how it happened. I'm tired from college and work, so I guess I just overlooked it. Anyway, thanks for the intelligent response. Nice to meet someone who can make a statement yet not come across as...well...I'm sure you know what I mean. :)
-Hellrose
I would like to think you are right when you said no serious female gamer would pass up a game because there's a male lead character. While I totally agree with you 100%, I do have to wonder if it really holds true. RPG's are a special case...with those, and wrestling games, I fully support...no...I fully EXPECT those genres to give the option of playing a female character as lead. But in games like Halo or other FPS games, some action games..well..see, I can't really say that because the statement would cover too broad of a range for even myself to agree with. It's really hard to word, but basically, I think that some games are just meant to be what they are...whether the lead is female or not. And all I'm saying is I would like to see that remain intact.
While I could go on, I think to do so is simply not required. I can tell by your responses that you pretty much get what I'm trying to say. I'm not out to start a war, nor do I want to offend anyone with what is very simply my opinion on things. That said, I think now would be a good time for me to bow out of this thread. It's also a pain to keep cycling through the site to get to it..lol. Thanks for the quality responses.
Danno @ May 13th 2006 12:35AM
Ethan Thomas: I don't see why it shouldn't be brought into games.
Homosexuality and interacial and interspecies (as in like, Human and Orcs or something like that) relationships would be valid and interesting topics to address in games. How those affect the NPC's perspective and reaction to you would create risk/reward dynamics balanced against your desire to roleplay how you want to.
Why should this sort of stuff get glossed over? Aren't we in the next generation of video games?