E3 Vox Populi: Will lack of rumble hurt the PS3? [update 1]
by Christopher Grant 
{ May 13th 2006 at 1:15AM }
Yesterday, we asked a few people on the show to give their reaction to the following question: "Will the lack of rumble in the Dual Shake hurt the PlayStation 3?" Here are some reactions we got:
David Edery: Game Tycoon
It's certainly a shame to lose something where rumble matters in the design context. Rumble has always felt like icing to me; it's not crucial. Not having the motion sensing at all, that's a huge problem. I'd be much more worried about Microsoft, frankly. Rumble has never mattered to me that much. I think it'll hurt them, but I don't know how much. I don't think it's a huge deal. People want to move, though. Not having [motion sensing] when others do have it, will be a huge disadvantage.
Jessie: GamerSurvival
"It'll hurt; I've heard a lot of people upset [over the decision]."
David Reid: VP Marketing for GameTap
I've never thought of it as a big deal. That's me personally. There was a time when i was deep in the weeds at Xbox when we were like, "do we pay for one motor or two motors?" I think the bigger story is a $499 box that doesn't have HDMI, doesn't have Wi-Fi, doesn't have a memory unit. I think lack of rumble is the least of their problems. Those are really smart guys, they've got a really great business, I'm sure they know what they're doing but it really struck me as odd.
Delila: OnTheXbox.com
"[The rumble] adds to the experience, feeling the explosions for example. It's gonna hurt them."
Roman: Industry Analyst
[Lack of rumble] is not the main thing that's going to hurt them. To me they're the loser of the show. I'm very concerned actually. Rumble is marginal compared to other issues.
Cesar: Gamerscore
"Not as much as the price."
See also:
E3 Vox Populi: What are your thoughts on the PS3 prices?
E3 Vox Populi: Who had the best press conference?
[Update 1: fixed horrible, horrible typos. Please forgive us!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Carmine @ May 13th 2006 1:42AM
Rumble is a gimmick. Wireless is a better gimmick. Just look at the Wavebird.
Amos @ May 13th 2006 1:42AM
This "wireless" controller has a mini-usb port on top...
wizard @ May 13th 2006 1:42AM
"Rumble is marginal compared to other issues."
Ditto.
lefty @ May 13th 2006 1:43AM
i personally could not play with out rumble. thats just me. it makes the game. imagine the football games with no rumble, the last second kicks with the heart beat were sweet. what about when ur in a driving game or a fighting game and ur driving and u run off gthe road or run over stuff. with rumble and the way it is o n the 360 even if its a pebble u feel it, its like ur driving the vehicle. how bout when ur playing a racing game and ur drifting, it helps to feel the tires slipping. i dunno i think u had this "gimmick" to help justify why its so high and yet u lose part of the experience of. its the experience we pay for and while its neat i donlt think the motion sensing or what ever will stick with mosty games. i thinks its a bad bad move
Zero_ @ May 13th 2006 1:44AM
Rumble is not a gimmick. Try playing a game like MGS1 on the Playstation with a Dual Shock, then play it without. Big difference.
element4life3 @ May 13th 2006 1:47AM
I would take rumble over that Wii-copied motion sensing PS3 controller any day!
The 360 controller is perfect, the Wii controller is inovative and amazing, and now the PS3 controller is just another gimmick along side that ridiculous price!
fakiu @ May 13th 2006 1:47AM
i think they stole the show
ohhhhh, no they stole the ideas from Nintendo
just to say it but reading other posts i found something like this:
sony is the real innovative company because they made their contrlller in just 1 1/2 week
sorry Nintendo revealed something that ppl like to call the "Wii-mote" or the Revmote if you dont know the new and Shiny Wii last year. maybe u didnt notice it. just to tell u.
Eric @ May 13th 2006 1:52AM
I fell in love with rumble almost 10 years ago...I want it back.
Not having it is a loss of 3 console generations.
Harrison saying it's "last gen" is an insult to me and others (Hideo Kojima - MGS on PS1 used it very cleverly)
Motion sensing is cool and all...Next years E3 will give me a heart attack if Sony comes out with a motion sensing rumble controller...it will PWN the industry!!
For some damn reason...if it had rumble...I'd be happy with the premium price...without it...I can't justify 600 bones.
Carmine @ May 13th 2006 2:00AM
I've played through MGS over a dozen times, and while I'll agree that rumble is nice, it is by no means essential. Actually, there were parts where it just seems silly. For example, why should it rumble when another character has a "heart attack." Also, recall when Mantis moves the controller with his mind. Of course I thought these were both amazing the first time I experienced them, but in hindsight it does seem a bit gimmicky.
Regula Oblique @ May 13th 2006 2:04AM
I actually think it was a bad idea to scrap the rumble but sony basically thought "hey lets kill 1 bird with 2 stones" theyt figured they wouldnt have to pay royalties to the company who created the feature, and always steal the wii's thunder a bit by implimenting it.
I saw a gamespot interview with hideo kojima and he was very upset about this cuz all his MGS games relie on it quite a deal, this is going to hurt alot but he said he will try to implement the motion sensors in MGS4.
Now about the price I'm am more of a sony fan, but when I heard the price I still kinda baffled at what to do. I make enough money a year to buy a couple but $600 is a bit steep they could of scrapped the 2 skus and made one for $549.99. or just $499 for the one. serious thinking of what to do I own a 360 and am def gettting a wii, but i guess Ill think a bit more b4 I make a move to get it.
Regula
Logan Greiner @ May 13th 2006 2:17AM
i think ruble really adds to the experence with Collosus shaking the earth and a car crash makes it so much more fun with rumble.
SetupWeasel @ May 13th 2006 2:23AM
I don't get Sony's stated reason for removing the rumble. If you have a game that needs the motion sensors you could simply not use the rumble. Either they are not being truthful and they are doing it for battery/legal reasons or they are worried about rumble breaking the motion sensors.
Eric @ May 13th 2006 2:27AM
Think of it this way...
It will be the only next-gen console without a forcefeedback feature of any kind (regardless if nintendo's Wiimote is "weak" or not, it still has it, and a speaker too!!).
For $600 it better damn well have whatever the "other" consoles have, and MORE!
Geoff @ May 13th 2006 2:32AM
One instance that I can think of where rumble is crucial is racing sims. Rumble is the best way to convey to the player that the tires are starting to loose grip on the road. There really isn't a good visual way to indicate how close the car is to losing grip. Besides, in a racing sim you have to keep your eyes on the road not on a gauge telling you your about to fly off the track at 80 miles per hour. In other games rumble is nice, but in a racing sim it is crucial.
Platinum_Skeet @ May 13th 2006 2:40AM
Everyone the reason Sony took out the rumble wasn't for motion sensing. The Wii's controller still has rumble features and so did other controllers that used this technology. Sony took it out because the lawsuit over the rumble technology used in their controllers...
OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
Andy S. @ May 13th 2006 2:46AM
I don't see how the loss of rumble is a big deal at all. I mean, really, the WaveBird doesn't have rumble, and how many GameCube owners here use it as their default GC controller?
Rumble is a stupid and often annoying gimmick, and it eats battery power like nobody's business (see the Logitech wireless pads for PS2 and Xbox, where turning off rumble can increase battery life by as much as 40%). I'd rather lose rumble and have to charge my controllers less often, thanks.
Unimental @ May 13th 2006 2:47AM
We all thought "feedback" was stupid at first... now we're used to it.
However, you can shake all you want, you're not going to compete with the Wii controller. (I still can't say "Wii" with a straight face)
Eric @ May 13th 2006 2:52AM
@Platinum_Skeet
That was what I thought at first, and then I realized (because I can use my head) that Sony still sells their Dualshock for PS2 and they still sell new games for the PS2 that utilize forcefeedback.
Now if it were TRULY because they lost that lawsuit, they would have had to yank all controllers, and all PS2 units. Look it up.
Ivan @ May 13th 2006 3:00AM
$600 OMG some please shoot me! Quit b$tching and get a job! I'm rolling in dough(money) right now!Gotta go back to work now....maybe all the fanboys should get a damn job instead of b*tching about prices all day on blogs!!
p.s:HDMI cables are around $40.00 at wal-mart
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4810666
Eric @ May 13th 2006 3:06AM
@Ivan
You're a smart one too...The sticker shock fear isn't really about us "gamer" types, I'm not shocked at the number 600 for me...Its about Joe Consumer. Joe Consumer is the one that will decide who wins the console war whether you like it or not.
The best bang for the buck is genearlly what sways Joe, and last gen, it was the PS2.
You are rolling in dough, good for you my rich friend, but Joe is not. Joe is getting raped by gas prices, kids, taxes, PTA, car payments, and house payments.
$600 is hard to squeez for "games" (oh and a blu ray player that Joe doesn't need yet) in that budget.
hot zizzy @ May 13th 2006 3:06AM
It is one of Sony's major mistakes on the PS3.
Play one of your favorite shooting games for a while, then turn vibrate off and play some more. The difference is immediately noticeable, and really takes away from the realism of the game. It is one of the basics, and Sony is moving backwards by removing it.
PSP_FAN @ May 13th 2006 3:13AM
Orinally i was upset at the removal of the rumble feature until i remembered that i play psp games all the time and don't miss it at all.
starburst @ May 13th 2006 3:39AM
I think Sony has bigger problems than the controller not having a rumble effect
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31631
Gran Turismo looks really good...on the PC!!!!
the last line cracked me up
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31681
Glen the Hen @ May 13th 2006 3:45AM
No biggy. An aftermarket company will jump up and say, YEA we solved the rumble effecting motion problem. One that isent under a court injunction.
Clutch @ May 13th 2006 3:58AM
I'll never forget the first time the batteries in my Rumble Pak died. I was playing Starfox 64 when it happened--just after one of the boss battles, in fact--after the ridiculously long but oh-so-satisfying rumbly death sequence, the next level started up and the game suddenly felt boring compared to what I'd played before. I didn't know what the difference was at first--I'd played through the campaign a few times already, and I hadn't yet worn it out--but when I realized it was the lack of a rumble, I thought I was mistaken. I thought the dead battery had to have been just one more thing, that something else had to have changed as well, but I finally came to understand that the Rumble Pak actually was worth all Nintendo's hype. I think this choice to leave out force feedback will really hurt Sony.
elShaggy @ May 13th 2006 4:09AM
David Edery: Game Tycoon
"it's certainly a shame to lose something where rumble matters in the design context. Rumble has always felt like icing to me; ...rumble has never mattered to me that much."
just pointing out the WTF contradiction.
Gareth @ May 13th 2006 4:13AM
Rumble is a loss, but Sony has bigger problems to worry about - like how many people are going to drop 500 quid on what is essentially just a blu-ray player that also plays games - and games that will mostly be cross-platform anyway.
P.S Joystiq, what's with the atrocious typos, spelling and grammar in this post?
Yem @ May 13th 2006 5:06AM
I think the fact that you didn't even notice what the problem was at first speaks volumes. I gave up rumble when I switched to a Logitech Wireless PS2 controller and I don't miss it at all.
If it was "real" force feedback (ie motion resistance) that'd be something. Rumble is basically a gimmick. No more realistic than a cellphone vibration. There are a few situations where it makes sense (eg the aforementioned rumble strips in racing games) but otherwise it wont be missed.
Someone should work out how to put real variable resistance into all the analog controls on the controller. Now that WOULD be revolutionary.
Amrcanpoet @ May 13th 2006 5:08AM
I'm less concerned with the lack of a rumble feature, and more concerned with the education of these gaming "professionals."
Good god, I have never seen worse grammar, spelling, punctuation, and train of thought. That first review makes NO sense to me. I can't tell; is he for the rumble, or not? Is it important or not?
And, a VP of marketing should sure as hell know how to capitalize, punctuate, and overall type-o check his writing. Pitiful.
SquashedYoshi @ May 13th 2006 5:13AM
Are all these people dismissing the rumble feature just defending their systems? I buy all of them and hate that the rumble is missing from the wavebird and ps3. I haven't bought a wavebird because of this downgrade and will have to purchase from company that adds a rumble controller to the ps3, (along with a d-pad and maybe analog triggers).
Still no triggers sony?
SquashedYoshi @ May 13th 2006 5:21AM
Scratch that part about the triggers.
don_sf @ May 13th 2006 5:57AM
i am very disapointed really really disapionted.
not everyone can afford is gonna by a force feedback steering wheel. playing gran turismo on the playstation and ps2, the rumble was KEY, it was absolute, the rumble made it much much better - you could feel the road.
i think their excuse is pathetic, wii uses rumble and i think its motion sensing is slightly better eh?, yes it uses a much more advanced sensing and still has force feedback. there are so many ways rumble can be put onto the controller - i dont think rumble disrupts the movement.
and speaking of movement, i dont wanna play gran turismo 5 by moving the controller, i wana use the left analouge stick like i have been doing for years. i enjoy using the left analouge stick and rumble, and have been doing so for a long time.
im not overly concerned about the wifi features and all that, because me and alot people out there want to pay a lil bit more for the best ps3. its about me the gamer, and as a gamer i want rumble.
seemeles backwards compatibility is a strong point for ps3, 2 billion games sold from ps1-2 and they are working on ps3. but if you are taking rumble away then its not gonna be exactly as good as playing with rumble.
so yes sony are great, but without rumble not as great.
ALH @ May 13th 2006 6:23AM
I'm kind of sick of hearing the excuses about this..and the 'defence' that rumble makes no difference D:
Wario Ware:Twisted uses motion and rumble together for fantastic effect, hell, if the thing didnt have a rumble it would be incredibly difficult to feel wether you were twisting the thing hard enough or not.
Okay, agreed, some games dont need rumble. Gitaroo man is fantastic and doesnt need rumble. But rumble has been used creatively in many a game -think REZ.
How will this effect backwards compatability of ps3?
JRM @ May 13th 2006 7:26AM
I think the worst part is not telling their developers about motion sensing at all. Sony just let all the 3rd parties make their games with rumble (Like MGS4) and now they all have to scrap it for motion sensing. That's going to cost them money. I wouldn't be surprised if the developers also lost their trust in Sony.
Galley @ May 13th 2006 8:32AM
I'm a racing gamer; I gots to have my rumble! ;-)
Jason Jaegers @ May 13th 2006 9:17AM
This just further goes to show that Sony doesn't care about us gamers... Rumble is a proven technology that really does ADD to games... it doesn't make them harder to play or change the control set of a game like motion sensing will.
Sony has NO IDEA WHAT GAMERS WANT! First they are running around touting how the system will have 2 HDMI ports... those are gone cause gamers don't care about them... they tried to make a controller that looked cool but when gamers spoke out they said they hated it just by looking at it. Now the obviously ran out and add motion sensing to try to keep up with Nintendo without really researching it and trying to find out if they could implement something that gamers and developers wanted... Nintendo's has been there from the beginning and all the games in development for it will use it right from the start. Sony's was thrown in to try to make it look like it has EVERYTHING to justify the price... but they went and did the dumb thing by leaving out something real gamers are used to and some take for granted...
Oh and if the rumble really effects the motion sensing then I wouldn't want to play with it anyway... if I get to pressing buttons hard and fast wont that effect it too?
Nintendo and even Microsoft went out and built game systems that really looked at GAMERS and implemented things that GAMERS want... Sony is just throwing a bunch of crap into the PS3 to make it look like the everything box and it is turning out to be a hard to develop for POS... But don't worry... $600 is a good price for an early Blu-Ray player... since that is most likely all it will be used for when developers stop making games for it.
Cyy @ Mar 25th 2007 5:15PM
I'd rather have rumble than that motion sensor thing, playing THPS without rumble feels weird
Mr Butterscotch @ May 13th 2006 9:23AM
Personally, I like rumble. I think to not have it is kind of a backward step - maybe that's just me. I think any feature that ads to the interactivity of the game (and it does to a surprising extent, after I tried switching it off when I read this) is definitely a good thing.
Ben Hobbs @ May 13th 2006 9:25AM
#18
I'd love to see you try cramming that HDMI lead into the analogue out connections on the cheaper PS3.
The Cheaper PS3 won't even qualify as a blu-ray player if they leave HDMI off, seeing as they will limit the output to normal DVD resolution if HDCP isn't applied. Who's gonna buy more expensive blu-ray movies that are the same quality as a standard DVD?
I'm betting the cheaper PS3 won't even have a blu-ray drive and that they will knock it out at $399.
SH @ May 13th 2006 9:38AM
I watched IGN's interview with Phil Harrison and he said that Sony have been developing there motion sensing device since 1994, and yet somehow Nintendo have managed to create a controller that has full motion/wireless and rumble capabilities and Sony after 12 years still can't do both... mmm i think Phil might been trying to stop people saying that they copied Nintendo.
Sony should worry that Microsoft and Nintendo are really showing them up, not only in price but on games and thats where Nintendo will be able to win.
The ZeroCorpse @ May 13th 2006 9:44AM
@ #35
They HAVE to have the Blu-Ray drive in the cheap-o PS3, because the games are being developed on BD-ROM. If they use a different drive, the games would have to be on different media.
They are cornering themselves into requiring Blu-Ray, even on a crippled system which will only use BD-ROM for games, but not HD movies.
mrdelayer @ May 13th 2006 10:22AM
It's got a USB port. Rumble dongle anyone?
tiremfej @ May 13th 2006 10:36AM
Sony has lied. Big deal, it's not like any of us weren't expecting it we knew all along. At least they went back to supposedly more comfortable design of the controller.
I really think MS threw Sony off quite a bit this time around. They had them running scared. It was evident last year. With that crapfest of a conference at last years E3, and the past years comments. Now they are playing damage control, because surprise!! None of it was true. We'll maybe some...but more than 2/3's of the statements by Sony proved to be false, they savy hardcore gamers know it.
Further more, the hardcore ones that are upset, have friends I'm sure that are casual gamers, it's the 10 to 1 rule. They'll tell 10 people etc...etc...Sony just isn't going to make it this time around. If Nintendos controller doesn't perform better than some of the negative reports...well, they're going to have issues as well. Although I'll be buying a Wii for my niece. So maybe MS is right, a 360 and a Wii for the price of a PS3....sounds pretty good.
Spider @ May 13th 2006 10:41AM
Rumble has been widely used, but few developers have used it well/smartly like kojima productions, for example. I will miss it in some games, but not in the majority of games I will be playing.
Rare Hare @ May 13th 2006 11:01AM
i really like rumble.. like, a lot.
not saying it'll be the deciding factor of whether or not i purchase a PS3 or anything, but it's definately a dissapointment.
my PlayStation and Xbox will have to switch roles this gen, i think.. it looks like i'll have a PS3 for exclusives and a graphics edge, and an Xbox 360 for everything else.
so yeah, i think this might hurt Sony. lack of rumble at this point cheapens the experience, and i believe someone trying out a PS3 at their friend's house or somewhere will notice the difference.
MrP @ May 13th 2006 11:18AM
Rumble isn't strictly necessary - in some games, where precision is required, I generally have it turned off - but it has its place. Recent games that've used it well include Fahrenheit (where it's occasionally used to throw your timing off in the Simon Says-type action sequences, as well as simulating a heartbeat), and, believe it or not, the motion-sensing Wario Ware: Twisted. The ever-so-slight rumble in that cartridge made a hell of a difference.
phipscube @ May 13th 2006 11:28AM
Rumble has always been an overrated annoying feature for me. I'm glad they got rid of it. The only time I truly like feedback it through FORCE feedback in racing games. Thats a good use. If I play a driving game I pull out my Logitech GT3 Wheel that has served me well for many a year. Rumble in pads is plain irritating, It doesnt give me any sense of "realisim" at all, I turn it off most times. BUT I do agree that it should have been included as an option for people that might like it, Its just that I personally don't care that its been taken out.
And when you get away from the Wii Wii ness of Joystiq and read the rest of the net. The general consensus is that the Dual Shake is pretty damn good and responsive. The Wii remote is getting very mixed response. So Ironically it seems that the general joe prefers the PS3 pad over the Wiimote. So it can't be something they just threw in 2 weeks ago. I can't see how it would work so well in such a small time frame. More likely the developers of the games didnt know about it until two weeks ago as Sony wanted to keep it secret.
Joystiq, why are you constantly putting the PS3 down with posts like this? Why did you not even bother to cover hardly anything remotely Sony? PSP, PS2 and PS3 have been severely under catered for news wise over this E3 on here. Going to IGN and Gamespot for example shows MUCH MUCH more and in a more non bias light.
Adrian @ May 13th 2006 11:28AM
Why do the numbers and lights on the back of the controller (1, 2, 3, 4) only go to 4? I assume that these are there to tell you what number your controller is, but the ps3 is supposed to support up to 7 players? I really hope that they haven't cut down on the number of players...
Danny @ May 13th 2006 11:59AM
I play Halo2 on XBL with rumble off. But this is strictly for precision purposes. When your trying to four shot someone with a BR it's hard to aim and deal with the rumble at the same time. I do however use it for every other game, and it really does add something extra to the experience.
LaughingTarget @ May 13th 2006 12:09PM
The individualized experiences and opinions are great and all, but fail to fully explain what would happen on a broader scale. For the most part, removal of feature is a bad thing, especially ones that have been establised as a standard.
One needs to be taken into account that the vast bulk of Playstation owners are only Playstation owners. They started gaming on a Playstation, owned nothing but a Playstation, and as far as they are concerned, rumble has existed since time immemorial. Consumers always react poorly when a long standing feature is removed. Sony is likely going to pull, on a smaller scale, a comparative version of Coke-Cola pulling Classic Coke and replacing it with New Coke. Sure, research and pundits claimed that the change wouldn't cause problems, but in the end, it bit Coke in the ass.
Pundits and market researchers are sitting around saying that pulling rumble isn't going to cause problems. The marketing research is likely flawed. The marketers likely ASKED people what they thought of the rumble feature. The marketers put the focus group in a room, asked them to try it out with and without rumble, and them made them actively think about whether it was an important feature or not.
What is not predictable is what will happen when the feature is simply pulled out from under the feet of the general population. The feature is simply not there anymore. True, rumble is not a true tactile feedback system, but the average consumer is not able to distinguish between the two. The average consumer will pick up the controller and find it dead in their hands. Furthermore, it is being replaced, at the last minute based on what I've seen reported by actual developers, by a feature that the average consumers won't even know is there. All they will figure out when messing out with that flashy new kiosk at Wal-Mart is the controller is a dead fish.
Feel is important, and when something that has been there forever suddenly vanishes, the consumer won't be able to figure it out. The best example is the Star Fox 64 one above. He wasn't quite able to figure out why the game suddenly wasn't as fun anymore.
All the consumer will be thinking when they are messing around on the kiosk years before they can actually afford the unit is this: "Wow, it looks great...but something is missing. The games just aren't all that fun."
They don't know it is because the rumble feature is gone, but they can tell it, and it will cost a ton of sales.
Now, I am no longer a gamer, quit about a month ago and haven't touched a game since. Because of this, I've gotten some stronger insights on how the industry works on a bigger level. It is amazing at the new perspective gained when you're no longer immersed within the activity itself. It is said that the first hand witness accounts in a trial are the most inaccurate and worst methods to figure out what the truth really is, and I can see why.
It comes down to a simple concept: if a feature has been there for a long time, keep it there. You can safely eliminate features that have not experienced a long lifespan because the consumer won't miss it, mainly because a good chunk of your customer base will never have experienced it. Taking away something that has always been there (or worse, charging extra for what used to be standard) is a great way to kill your business.