Clearing up some PS3 confusion

#95... analog cables can carry as high as 1080p... there is no reason to dis component cables at all.

Point is... Kutaragi himself said that there will not be a "discernable difference" between HDMI and component (but since the signal is coming from a blu-ray player, this means there will be no discernable difference between 1080p and 1080i). I repeat.... you WILL NOT be able to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i on the PS3. Quote me and throw it in my face later if I'm wrong... but I'm not.

If PS3 fans think they are getting something special with 1080p, they are mistaken. Assuming they have a TV that supports 1080p, buy the $600 version, buy the two games that actually support 1080p (most support 720p, which is what MS said the sweet spot would be)... the cost is just not justifiable.

Comparably, I'll call the core system of the PS3 crap, too. I say this because you can buy a core system of a 360 and turn it into a premium at the cost of $50 more than just buying the premium. You simply cannot turn the core system into the premium PS3 no matter how much money you have. Wait... I take that back... you could do it for $600.

"It is possible to send a 1080p signal through component (analog) cables. However, licensing constraints built into a blu-ray drive do not allow 1080p signals to travel through component (analog). That's why so many movie studios jumped on board. ...Therefore, no 1080p in the "cheap" version."


"Will Blu-ray down-convert analog outputs?

No, Blu-ray players will not down-convert the analog output signal unless the video contains something called an Image Constraint Token (ICT). This feature is not part of the Blu-ray Disc spec, but of the AACS copy-protection system also adopted by HD-DVD. In the end it will be up to each movie studio to decide if they want to use this "feature" on their releases or not. The good news is that Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, MGM and Universal have already stated that they have no intention of using this feature. The other studios, which have yet to announce their plans, will most likely follow suit to avoid getting bad publicity. If any of the studios still decide to use ICT they will have to state this on the cover of their movies, so you should have no problem avoiding these titles."

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_analog_output

Joe

If you read my previous posts you will see I have nothing against component cables. I was just addressing the differences between the 360 and the PS3. The reasoning behind why the 360 is "better" than the PS3 still sounds like people are grasping for straws. I , and many others here, have addressed what is upgradable and what is not. I have addressed the importance of having the features "required" instead of add on. Even with all of the 360's addons I will still say in terms of power it is a far shot from the PS3. The shining example of this is how people are comparing the titles they have seen without being truely objective. A year from the PS3's release will be a more accurate judge of graphical prowess and I assure you Sony isn't going to tank before then.

I agree that Sony should just offer the one PS3 with all the bells & whistles of the Premium model but with the 20GB hardrive & maybe sell it for $550 or something. I dont like this 2 SKU package buisness & I think it is confusing, especially for someone who knows nothing about gaming, like a kids' Mum or Dad.

#98...

The link you posted says it won't be down-scaled, but doesn't say what signal that outputs. Nothing is DOWNscaled via analog, but the blu-ray player does UPscale to 1080p via HDMI.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ID=32173

From what I'm seeing, no 1080p via analog....

http://www.cnet.com/4831-11405-6411878.html

#99... I agree with you 99%. (Just not fully convinced that the Cell processor is more powerful when dealing with a gaming machine).

I think you are absolutely right, though, that a year from now we'll have enough info to tell the difference.

A little bit off-topic, but after reading many of these posts, it's pretty clear that there are a ton of fanboys lurking on this site waiting to pounce on any comment they deem as inflammatory towards their respective company.
I have a few questions then; to the fanboys and to the Joystiq crew.
To the fanboys; what makes you tick? Do these companies pay you to be jerks to everyone but those who have a similar allegiance to your's? Does it make your day worthwhile to berate others so much? It seems that no matter what anyone says you are never pleased and your "side" can do no wrong. If you insist on bashing every comment that doesn't coincide with your viewpoint, why not just go back to your respective fansite and leave the other readers alone. There you can preach to the choir all you want about how great you think your "side" is. If you don't agree with someone, then that's fine. Don't through a fit about it and start ranting about things that are mostly hypothetical and speculation.
Fanboy, just try to relax and take a deep breath. Just remember that there are all kinds of people out there. Some don't agree and some do. Yes I know that might be a bit too much to take in, but try to relax. Go outside, get some sun, eat some fiber. You'll feel better.

As for Joystiq's journalistic integrity:
....Are nachos really $4 a pop over there? Now THAT is worth crying about.

yes, it almost like sony is forcing us to buy the more expensive one.

they know millions of people will buy ps3, whether in launch or a year or 2 later.

the ps3 is better than the xbox 360. thats the bottom line.

Upscaling refers to...upscaling standard DVD to HDTV resolution. I am not sure if either the 360 or the PS3 claimed that they could do this in the first place.

No 1080p via analog.... From most reports I can see is over the market BR players. There really isn't any proof to say that this will happen with the PS3. Even if it is true that means you get to watch movies over analog at 1080i while being able to play the games at 1080p.. but as you said in your previous post.."I repeat.... you WILL NOT be able to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i on the PS3"

#99
"Even with all of the 360's addons I will still say in terms of power it is a far shot from the PS3"

How? In terms of RAM? GPU? CPU? Just how far ahead is the PS3 in terms of power? Is it the cell processor that no one has used in ANY electronic device to date and has yet to really prove itself? Is it the RSX that runs 50 mhz faster than the 360, but lacks the embedded DRAM and 48 way parallel floating point the 360 has? I'm confused...I keep hearing about how much more powerful the PS3 is, but no one backs it up. It's like there is this group of blind lackies that (just because Sony says so) belive the hype.

@ 103.

There are plenty of people on this site and others that feel pretty pationately one way or the other. Often these are not rational people who offer unrational comments in response to criticism of their console/game of choice. Who cares. The only thing that drives me crazy is when someone sees a post they disagree with and spout off that the comment was made by a fanboy thereby just starting a personal argument that the rest of us are forced to read lest we miss a good post. There's nothing wrong with opinions people. If you disagree then post a rebuttal. Don't just call them a fanboy. That's just akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'LA LA LA LA' like a three-year old.

#103: Look at Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft as a sports team, with money and quality developers on the line. In any sports event fans of conflicting teams will quarrel and smack talk, way more than their team does to the other. Hell, even moms of kids in peewee teeball can be vicious, while the kids don't generally give a rats ass.

This is the same deal, everyone faithful to a company holds them close some how. some people grew up with Nintendo, Sony, or Sega (Amazingly Sega fans are still around even after Segas taken a long fall). Some people had Microsoft Xbox as their first console. Some people had bad experiences with a console on their first time owning one making them want to see the company fail and the others succeed. There's many reasons one can become a fan. When you avidly follow video games and the companys it often sucks you in just as much as sports do (if you follow them, of course).

It's pretty much the nerds sports event. mirite?

Man sony has some nerve or they are just so confident that gullable fanboys will buy a 500 dollar product if they cant afford 600 dollars.What many people dont know is that buying a 500 dollar ps3 is like buying a bag of potato chips with no chips inside. This thing doesnt even support wireless controls want to know why?So it will force you to buy a 600 dollar ps3 and also they are making it crappy not because they want to but because they have to.Considering all the money they are losing!!!!!For some crap called blue ray that isnt even gonna take off because nobody cares.....really fanboys ask yourself would anybody even you buy a 1000-2000 dollar t.v and 40 dollar dvds to play blueray dvds?Please.....its a worthless investment EVERYONE is COMFORTABLE WITH STANDARD DVDs AND ARENT UPGRADING ANY TIME SOON!!!JUST MARINADE ON THAT.

SuMizzle, Many many devs have stated the power of the PS3. Even John Carmack himself stated how the PS3 is twice as powerful just alot more difficult to program for.

http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGririiirr05121649

An issue I am sure time and experience will remedy.


SEGA FAN FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!

Sony stole from nintendo huh. So the tilt functions patented by sony in 1999 wont let you believe other wise?

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0&QPN=JP11099284

How about the fact that they were considering this in 2003?

http://sony.gamerfeed.com/gf/news/4815/

How about the fact that the warhawk team, even though they added the functionality in 10 days, Knew that the change in the controller was planned for a long time?

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3150702

and really the motion sensing was never thought up before? Or even was planned on being implemented?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/police911/story.html?sid=2762376

It is getting old and tired already. Please give it a rest.
*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-MEN*

Let's put the whole motion sensing technology debate to rest. Neither Sony nor Nintendo invented the technology. It's been around since the 90s in commercial use on both the PC and Macintosh. Nintendo did recently acquire Gyration, which was one of the pioneers of the technology with their motion sensing mouse.

Atari developed a controller around the technology in one of their labs in the early 80s, but it never saw general release because the company fell on hard times after the market collasped, and closed down many of it's divisions. If I'm not mistaken, a third party did release a rather crude controller using the technology for the 2600 around 82-83.

STEVE (of post #113 as of this entry).

SHUT UP.

sheesh...

a) the no bluetooth in the "cheap" PS3 is only a RUMOR... it was rebutted by Joystiq IN THE SAME ARTICLE YOU WERE JUST READING.

until an OFFICIAL statement or the system comes out, which ever first, consider it a RUMOR.

b) i'm MORE THAN SURE there WILL BE people paying 2k or more on a SINGLE "hi-def" tv, hundreds if not thousands of $$ on "players"...

so yeah, there will be people willing to pay (for whatever their reasons), the only question is, are YOU?

if everyone is satisfied with "standard" DVDs... fine. the Blu-Ray isn't JUST for movies... although it's expensive, it's no different than using CARTRIDGE for a GAMING system. it's just "convient" that it can be used for movies.

by the way... people were equally "content" with VHS.

oh wait, I wasn't content with VHS... nor am i content with DVDs.

so take your "everyone" and hush.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17035
:)

Kevin D:

Putting words in my mouth? Let's see:

"PS3 - DUAL HDMI OUTPUTS - 360 is junk using analog"

I never said 360 is junk for using analog. I once said it was junk for other reasons; not like it matters for this discussion. Also, you say that I said this before the 360 came out; so assuming I did it wasn?t widely known that HDMI wouldn?t be required for movies; rather, the opposite was thought.

Some people mention that there will be problems in the future, but in the future these two formats will be a lot cheaper (or well, the winner of the format war). And since the 360 HD-DVD add-on won?t support HDMI (will it?), I doubt movie companies would want to restrict their movies not to play on the 360-HD-DVD owners, let alone PS3 BD owners.

"PS3 - WILL NEVER COST MORE THAN $500 - SONY WOULDN'T BE THAT STUPID"

You will be able to buy a PS3 for 500 dollars. Besides, back then the Hard Drive was supposedly optional. Now there is a 500 PS3 *with* a hard drive.

"PS3- BLU-RAY WILL RULE AND MS IS STUPID FOR NOT PUTTING HD-DVD INTO THEIR MACHINES"

I never said "Blu-ray will rule". At best, I said ?Blu-ray could win for the following reasons?. You still don?t know the outcome, and neither do I. Nonetheless, MS should have put HD-DVD into their machines, not just for movies. After all, it?s cheaper than Blu-ray, so it wouldn?t have cost them an eye and then some like it did to Sony (and they have money to burn; Lionhead anyone? Marketing companies anyone? Yahoo and Nintendo anyone?). People that actually work in the movie industry (including porn) said they would have liked it. I know people say Microsoft wouldn?t have met the launch window, but Microsoft has/had the money to accelerate the process, or better yet, launch without HD-DVD and offer a free (but needed) upgrade by the time HD-DVD was out. It?s too late now... or is it?

"PS3 - WILL HAVE SINGLE SKU'S CAUSE MS IS MORONIC FOR USING 2 SKU'S"

Again, when did I say this? Assuming I did, do you think it matters now that both SKU's have a hard drive? What was moronic was Microsoft making an SKU without hard drive, especially because that?s one of their innovations in console gaming. So now, the Hard Drive on 360 is not for all games (well, for most games that come on discs; Oblivion could have used it; you need it for XBLA).

I know it might sound contradictory that I support Sony?s decision for including a hard drive as a standard (but I never addressed that issue, at least in public), but let me explain: It?s not that consoles need a hard drive for gaming. I don?t think neither needs it, but 360 developers and consumers have to choose now: Should I choose the hard drive for gaming or not? Consumer says: If I don?t, I?ll miss some things (like XBLA, among other things). Developer says: If I do, load times will improve, but if I don?t, I?ll cater to a wider audience.

On PS3, the hard drive was, up until March, never going to be used for gaming, avoiding consumer and developer confusion; it was supposedly only for media. When they announced the hard drive, they said it would be used for gaming; but that every console would get one, so no confusion on the important front (in everyone?s words, including yours): the gaming front. And guess what? It still costs $500.

By the way, I don?t type solely in capital letters. But I guess that was always obvious, so perhaps you are simply flame baiting. I?ll let it go.

?I told YOU specifically that it would be at LEAST $500,?

Sorry if I don?t remember you, but I said it would be $500 (without the hard drive). I always assumed it had no hard drive. The hard drive on PS3 was barely confirmed at E3, if not at the Sony Press Conference, but by then I started to wonder *if* PS3 was still going to cost 500 with a hard drive; looks like I was wrong, because it costs $500 even *with* a hard drive.

?the dual HDMI outputs weren't feasible,?

Again, when did I actually mention that 2XHDMI was *necessary*?

?and blu-ray wasn't/isn't needed by the majority.?

I think there are several benefits for gaming if you choose Blu-ray. I?ve posted them on other threads. You have such a great memory, so you must remember that also, don?t you?

?Also, remember that SONY is the DRM king (come on, they stayed out of the MP3 player race because of piracy..LOL - tools lost billions..LOL).. So you dont think Sony Studios isn't going to go ape shi. with the protection once they're in peoples homes? Come on, who are you trying to kid (yourself maybe?).?

Speculation.

?And yes, once the protection is there the machines WILL NOT allow 1080p out the analog since this is where piracy WILL take place, hence the HDMI output required.?

It is not required right now, and until it is, you can start talking about it. It could take off right now as it could take off in 5 years, or never. Oh, and as you said, not everyone needs Blu-ray movies, so it?s not required. Gaming won?t require HDMI (and there were some games already being displayed in 1080p glory at the E3).

There might be something that missed my address, so if there is, don?t forget to tell me.

Cage:

Thanks for running over to PS3 fanboy and telling me I had a message here. By the way, now that you are being so kind, could you go to DS, Revolution and PS3 fanboy and post some intelligent comments? Thanks.

Sony say's: stop complaining and start buying losers! The PS3 is very very cheaply made when you consider all that has been put inside the box.

(1) You get the Cell Processor (Code name: White Elephant) - so powerful that it has the AI of 10 Bazillion yellow plastic bath ducks.

(2) Built in Cell Heater - keep the family warm this winter compliments of Sony! (Optional extra Sony 20hp Air conditioner unit available)

(2) You get the proprietary Sony Blu-Ray Disc (Code Name: Big Blue) that plays all your Sony movies like the Da Vinci Code, Da Vinci Code 2, Angel of Da Vinci, and Last Action Hero 2 all in Highly Defined resolution variations. (** Disclaimer: Sony defines High Res as anything we say it is. *** HDMI ports may not be required ...trust us)

(3) You get the exciting media content delivery system with the most complex (and exciting) DRM and Spyware collection ever stuffed into a piece of stuffed hardware (Code name Rootkit-3).

(4) Sony K-Tel patented Plot Eliminator Chip - effectively removes anything that gets in the way of enjoying the pretty graphics. No one blends a story like Sony!

PS3 PLATINUM BUNDLE:

Life time subscription to shop on Sony's new innovative and original S-Tunes music store!!!

1 x PS2 Controller (less annoying Dual Shock rumble feature) but includes a Tandy Mercury switch for exciting, innovative & highly original tilt game control.

Life time subscription to our exciting in-game-advertising.

Get on the phone & call: 12-PISS-3-BUZMATIC today!!