Sony fakes Blu-Ray on VAIO [update 2]
Gadget blog Gearlog posted photos exposing some Sony shenanigans.
Sony was recently celebrating the 10th anniversary of the VAIO computer when pesky PC Magazine reporter Lance Ulanoff pushed the eject button on Sony's VAIO AR and out popped a DVD-R with "House of Flying Daggers" hastily scribbled on it. Attendees had been lead to believe that the computer was playing the movie on a Blu-Ray disc. Oops! (Attendees did note that the video quality was better, so there's little question that the content was high-def. It just wasn't Blu-Ray-flavored HD content.)
Nice work, Lance. That was a real Scooby-Doo moment.
Or was it? An alternate theory put forth by Sony supporters says that this is a photo of the laptop that was supposed to be playing DVD+R content. These debunkers cite a second account of the event as evidence.
[Via Engadget]
[Update 1: Added a little more explanation to help readers sort out the scenario.]
[Update 2: Added link to Notebook Review's account.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
TME @ May 16th 2006 10:30PM
ZOINKS!!
Noah @ May 16th 2006 10:31PM
Busted!
Haha, that's so great.
Tim @ May 16th 2006 10:36PM
Note this has nothing to do with games, and they filed this under PS3. Just another attempt by Joystiq to make Sony look bad. Typical.
Embrace @ May 16th 2006 10:38PM
Its a fake.
They are different laptops.
not to mention that sony would have used a SONY DVD!!! AND THAT THEY OWN HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS and wouldnt have to have copied it...
masterpat @ May 16th 2006 10:39PM
2 things....i dont think that sony would use a burned copy of a dvd that they have rights to. 2nd....why a verbatim disc? Wouldnt sony use sony discs???
vc @ May 16th 2006 10:40PM
Tim: Blu-Ray has lots to do with the PS3. The console would be LAUNCHED by now if it weren't for Blu-Ray delays. Xbox 360 wouldn't be bragging about a 10-million console headstart if Blu-Ray weren't part of the PS3.
And if Sony still can't get Blu-Ray drives and discs into a VAIO, this does make one wonder whether the console is going to make its holiday ship date.
vc @ May 16th 2006 10:41PM
Embrace: read the thread. One laptop was a CAKE. Dur. =)
Second, they couldn't use a HoFD DVD. It's evident that they were playing HD content, just not off of a Blu-Ray disk.
ABigSmall @ May 16th 2006 10:42PM
Tim's trying to make Joystiq look bad. Typical. ;)
Londoner @ May 16th 2006 10:43PM
I am no fan of Sony. Hell, I am a Nintendo fanboy, but even I can see the bias in this article. Take a look at this article:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2939
Quote:
"The premium model comes bundled with one of the first Blu-ray Disc (BD) movies, House of Flying Daggers, which Sony showed side-by-side tonight, along with the DVD version. Contrary to what some have said, the difference in quality is instantly noticeable, and according to Sony, it is even more apparent on movies shot in HD (which HoFD apparently wasn't). AR190G comes bundled with an HDMI cable and an HDMI-to-DVI-D adapter so you can take full advantage of BD movies on your HDTV."
So there you go, DVD playback on the left in order for those in the event to compare the quality with BluRay playback on the right.
Josh Warner @ May 16th 2006 10:43PM
While I'm usually as anti-Sony as the next guy, I gotta say something here. While the disc may not have been Blu-Ray, it seems the audience saw a definite difference - so it must have been HD content.
Perhaps they don't have the blue laser finalized for a slimline drive ... I don't know. It wouldn't stop them from making a HD rip of the movie from the original that would be compressed to fit on one DVD. This is quite possible, because the codec for both next-gen formats is based on H.264, which compresses stuff incredibly well.
Even compressed from 25GB to 4.4GB, it would still be a definite increase over DVD. So, they may have been playing HD video ... just not from a Blu-Ray disc
homer @ May 16th 2006 10:43PM
Damn this has turned into a biased haters site now. I used to like coming here for news but now its just about hating sony.
Sony didn't even copy their controller. The proof is right here. Technically Nintendo copied Sony because they patented it first. You guys just feel threghtened.
Oh and BTW the guy who owns this site should hire gamers not fanboys....
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0&QPN=JP11099284
Blink @ May 16th 2006 10:44PM
Guys, has Sony EVER had anything authentic the first time they show it off?
aram @ May 16th 2006 10:45PM
Its a fake. And has been going around the internet on DIGG and SLASHDOT, and has already been debunked completely many many hours ago.
See above sites.
I'm not a fanboy of any console (PC gamer) but this SONY bashing is getting a little out of control.
vc @ May 16th 2006 10:47PM
Uh -- folks, I think you're missing the picture. A DVD disc can play back Blu-Ray content. Blu-Ray isn't a special type of data. It's just the same data wrapped in special protections that make it harder to pirate.
The engadget thread has already been through all of this: http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/16/sony-throws-party-for-vaios-fakes-blu-ray-demo/
dredub @ May 16th 2006 10:48PM
I wish there were more hands on comments about the PS3 games at E3 than articles from Engadget that should stay on Engadget. Will Joystiq now be posting all DVD and HDVD related posts from Engadget here, or just the ones that make Sony look bad?
From the 12-15 titles that were playable at E3 you have given impressions of exactly 3, yet you manage to cling on to any story that gives your largely Nintendo reader base an outlet for screaming ?$600 LOL? or ?The stole the controller.?
This should not be so much me bitching as much as it should be me pleading with you to actually post some stuff about the games and the system that has not been posted here before.
Cameron @ May 16th 2006 10:49PM
Josh Warner,
I think that's the point. If true, Sony just proved that it is possible to put HD content on current DVDs, thus making HD DVD and Blu-Ray irrelevant. If that disc held the entire movie with good compression, of course, then what a scam it would be. Pushing Blu-Ray like that- as if it were actually necessary. Ah well. We'll never find out for sure- if that disc held the entire movie in HD.
There is also the possiblity of Sony just upscaling the 480p image to HD- as this was a VAIO party, not a Blu-Ray one.
brian fantana @ May 16th 2006 10:56PM
Why? And how would this guy switch the two dvds from the different laptops all the while taking a picture and then putting them back in their respective laptops w/out any Sony reps seeing this.
If you look at the picture the dvd is in the Blu-Ray laptop!
And then if he did that, why and the f*ck would be put his name on the article?
vc @ May 16th 2006 10:57PM
Dredub: good questions. The Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD issue is very, very important in this round of console wars. We'll continue to follow it.
You're right to suggest that we should have covered more of E3. Time was short, staff were scarce. With limited resources, we had to prioritize. Sony got less attention than the more controversial Wii because the Wii is a bigger question mark.
Joe Mfk @ May 16th 2006 11:04PM
Its pretty clear, i think, that the whole reason everyone's freaking out over all this sony news lately is a general feeling of depression and lack of confidence in sony to even COMPETE in the market today. psp forever. MH Freedom is sick. but honestly, i know i'm not the only one really not feeling confidence in sony lately. ever since before e3.
here's to hoping someone gets fired.
Nodnetni @ May 16th 2006 11:05PM
My question would have to be why did sony need to burn a copy of the dvd, second if they are burning copies of dvds, that must mean that it is ok for us to make backups of Sony Pictures dvds.
guywhoknows @ May 16th 2006 11:05PM
It was a side by side comparison. The computer on the left was playing the DVD version and the computer on the left had the Blu-Ray disc inside. Lance opened the drive on the computer on the left. On the Gearlog page (http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/articles/11657.aspx) one of the posts further down on the page by Art Vandelay points this fact out, and offers another website that backs this up (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2939)
Seventy5 @ May 16th 2006 11:16PM
I was going to post the link #19 did, but kudos.
And shame on Joystiq for not checking up on this before posting, it took me approximately 3 minutes to read the story and find the link. I know that Sony bashing is the flavor of the month since E3, but come on. Joystiq is the only game website we can get through the filters on our office net (and usually quite well done). Please don't flood it with fanboy flame fodder.
asas @ May 16th 2006 11:18PM
"I think that's the point. If true, Sony just proved that it is possible to put HD content on current DVDs"
Of course it is possible but the main problem is that they don't have enough space to do it. BD is there for space not for HD
DEE DEE DEEE
Fan @ May 16th 2006 11:19PM
Hi vc.
Since this is a useless post im gonna go off topic.
If you could PLEASE post some news about ASSASINS CREED from e3 I would be very happy. This is a PS3 exclusive that ive heard so little hype about.
Any other impressions than the CGI vids? See any gameplay? Did you talk to the developers? ANYTHING!
Boy Anachronism @ May 16th 2006 11:19PM
if u sony fanboys are so angry about Joystiq's supposed anti-sony agenda why do u keep coming here?
vc @ May 16th 2006 11:22PM
http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/articles/11657.aspx
asas @ May 16th 2006 11:23PM
I know the journalist are turning into fanboys instead of gamers. I mean why don't you change the name to nintendostick.
The owner of this site needs new journalist. The current ones post up fanboy crap.
Hey Alex @ May 16th 2006 11:24PM
Why would Sony make a copy of a DVD when the DVD for House of Flying Daggers has been out since last year?
Geoff @ May 16th 2006 11:25PM
The inability of people to grasp this article is depressing me.
-The DVD+R had HD content on it
-The DVD+R was in a Blu-Ray laptop (as indicated by the sticker on the laptop in the picture)
-Sony couldn't use the regular DVD of the movie because that isn't HD
This isn't a big deal. At E3, they had the Wii shells, but they were empty. Stuff was running on the dev kits underneath. Not a big deal. Microsoft ran 360 games on G5's before launch. Not a big deal. Now, I enjoy a good bit of Sony ripping as much as the next guy but I'm not sure how relevant this article is.
Seventy5 @ May 16th 2006 11:29PM
Sorry for double posting, but VC, how do we know that the entire movie, sound and all, was compressed to fit on a standard DVD? The original article even points out that there is an obvious disparity in visual quality between the two. I don't think anyone ever said that you couldn't fit a half an hour of 1080p video on a DVD. A full length movie, with high quality audio & special features though? Not likely. I think you guys need to edit the story. Not because I'm rooting for PS3, but because fanboyism blows.
asas @ May 16th 2006 11:29PM
Sony did not copy dude. They had this back in 1999
Look at the patent here
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0&QPN=JP11099284
vc @ May 16th 2006 11:33PM
Seventy5: I never said that it's not a legitimate 1080p video. It's very likely that Sony burned a PORTION of HoFD to DVD-R in 1080p and played it on the laptop.
The point is that this is not a "Blu-Ray" demo. Blu-Ray movies can't be copied like this. Furthermore, this isn't a Blu-Ray disc. Finally, it may not even be a Blu-Ray player in the laptop.
The content is quite likely to be 1080p or whatever -- but none of the technology is Blu-Ray.
Alex K. @ May 16th 2006 11:41PM
if they were truly playing HD content off a DVD, and this isn't fake, then it proves one thing: High Density discs aren't needed for HD content!
My idea of my own next gen DVD format:
#1 - Use DL DVDs
#2 - Use MPEG 4 H.264 (or equivilant new compression tech)
#3 - Nix the special features - if they want to keep them, use another disc. 9GB devoted entirely to video can easily fit HD content without compression artifacts.
I mean, it's a no brainer. H.264 is AT LEAST 4X smaller in size than MPEG2 at the same resolution. There is no need for the size of an HD-DVD, never mind the Blu-ray disc. Sure, Blu-ray may eventually be good for data storage, but nothing else.
Chuck @ May 16th 2006 11:42PM
If I read correctly, the burned disc was from the laptop on the left, while the blu-ray was on the right... Is it possible Sony burned a reduced quality DVD of HoFD for the left computer to make the bluray look better on the right?
That wasn't even a DL disc, I don't know how long the movie is, but I doubt the flick fits entirely on 1 single layer disc.
boots (former bd (former b)) @ May 16th 2006 11:45PM
So, what does this prove? Absolutely nothing.
It's not like Sony proved HD movies fit on a DVD. That's old news. If anything, this are good news, because if a movie looks that good in while heavily compressed... Imagine how it looks out of Blu-ray.
Studios are already convinced about having a new format for HD. Content on demand is the future... the distant future, so a new format is needed. And Blu-ray is also needed for games, not just for movies, remember that.
What I really hate is when people actually POINT OUT the problem without even adressing it. People are quick to say that Blu-ray isn't necessary and that we could be playing PS3 right now if it wasn't for the format. What they fail to do is propose a solution. What other solution do you propose for PS3 instead of Blu-ray? I'm not convinced with DVD9 for this reason: I find it ridiculous to have to pay a prime for Xbox 360 games if it is the same format (and in J. Allard's words, content size won't grow, and might even decrease). There is no way I'm paying a prime for the same amount of content, especially when content creation is easier nowadays than it was 6 years ago.
If people don't propose a solution that isn't Blu-ray for PS3, then it's in part ridiculous to criticize. "Sony screwed up at this", "Sony did that". PROPOSE SOMETHING OR DON'T COMPLAIN!
Jonn @ May 16th 2006 11:49PM
Asas: please tell us what that link is supposed to import, instead of just spamming it. If I'm understanding it correctly, you're saying that Sony had the patent in 1999, and then sat on it for more than an entire console generation, only to start using it-by coincidence-when Nintendo makes a big fuss over their controller's motion-sensitivity?
Incidentally; that's an application for a movement sensor, not a tilt sensor. Not very good at reading comprehension, are we?
vc @ May 16th 2006 11:50PM
You can burn 1080p content to a single-layer DVD. Not sure why people are forgetting that.
Multikonsolero @ May 16th 2006 11:54PM
@#29. It was a no hidden fact that G5 were actual development kits for the 360. MS has never ever lied about anything regarding technology in any from. Sony is the master in this. First the Cell with its Teraflops which are not present, the movie quality of their games, the killzone ingame lie which proofen to be a cgi and so on and so on....
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html
wesley @ May 16th 2006 11:54PM
wow, joystiq really pulled a dan rather this time
Joebediah @ May 16th 2006 11:54PM
Reporting hot stories on the web does not equate to bias and/or bashing.
I wouldn't expect much out of commenters, but how about a little more respect for the people that run the site that you choose to visit?
homer @ May 17th 2006 12:02AM
DO you fail to grasp it. Sony had been experimenting the idea since 1999. The pictures from 1999 shows exactly how we play now. There is no difference.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6038/ps328vp.jpg
Freaking Fanboys. I am a gamer unlike you. I have all 3 last gen system and even the 360. You just want to be accepted in something
jadenguy @ May 17th 2006 12:02AM
if it was just a portion of the movie, like a 20 minute clip or a few trailers, that would fit on a dvd at full quality. they just needed to make a small vob or two. it doesn't, however, showcase ANY blu-ray technology. we already knew we could watch movies off of dvds. i did it at home just a few hours ago even.
Night Elve @ May 17th 2006 12:04AM
Pretty amazing that some people could believe this bashing. Im not saying something about Joystiq, It is pretty incredible that these days the news here and on other sites are commeting rumours against Sony that at end of the day turn to be fakes.
vc @ May 17th 2006 12:05AM
Walt,
How do you know that the Blu-Ray is on the right? I see a Blu-Ray sticker on the laptop on the LEFT. The Laptop on the right lacks the Blu-Ray sticker. How do you explain that?
selfconshus @ May 17th 2006 12:11AM
I agree with #25. Stop the posts about a dvd situation that has almost nothing to with the PS3 and lets get some more ps3 game related stuff on here. Assassin's Creed is something I've barely seen mentioned here and it's one of the few PS3 title I heard a few insiders call amazing. Not a fanboy here at all, just someone that wishes to see all consoles covered equally.
Guillermo @ May 17th 2006 12:17AM
I don't think this news is a bias thing. If I remember correctly, there was also a post not so long ago that exposed that Best Buy was using an HD content based DVD+R in the Toshiba HDVD demo units that they had in their stores. So this could be possible, too.
brian fantana @ May 17th 2006 12:18AM
Everyone saying it's a picture of the laptop w/ the DVD player in it.
LOOK AT THE DAMN PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!
The laptop w/ the copied DVD has a big fat Blu-Ray logo on it.
Look on the right side of the photo.
And they can put Hd content on a DVD. Problem is, the whole thing won't fit.
Alkaiser @ May 17th 2006 12:20AM
VC: It looks like you guys jumped on a hot, possibly fake story.
It looks like they were running 2 laptops side by side, the one on the right demoing Blu-Ray, the one on the left running a normal picture. The guy taking the photo popped open the left laptop (as evidenced by the audio ports' reflections, the keyboard orientation, etc.) which was not the one demoing the Blu-Ray.
Until you have confirmation that the left laptop was supposed to be the one demoing Blu-Ray, I'd at least put a question mark in your headline.
boots (former bd (former b)) @ May 17th 2006 12:32AM
"You can burn 1080p content to a single-layer DVD. Not sure why people are forgetting that."
That's not the point. Try convincing movie studios of doing that, and they'll tell you these things:
1. A new format is better for marketing HD content.
2. A new format is better for protecting profit that would otherwise be lost with DVD.
3. Blu-ray will give you better quality of image and sound because the video doesn't need to be as compressed.
4. Blu-ray is scratch proof.
IT's also very useful for games, since content making speed is ramping up as it should be. While procedural synthesis will save some (or a lot) of space on discs, it should also save the developers time to keep making the game as big (or actually bigger for what I just said) as last generation. So games that fit on a single DVD shouldn't cost more than last gen games. All this said, game size should grow faster than it did before, making Blu-ray necessary for games. Want more reasons?
0. Single SKU for single global version of a game saves costs of allocation (saving us costs).
1. Again, more costs saved asgames that come on multiple discs take more time to test.
2. Content won't need to be compressed, saving processing power for other tasks.
3. Games won't need to rely on procedural synthesis constantly, saving processing power again.
4. FMV, as most software assets, has somewhat better quality when not compressed.
5. There are games that can't be spanned on more than a single disc (fighting games, sports games, and so on)
6. Several Languages on a single game for enthusiasts
7. The amount of detail and content you can fit on a Blu-ray disc is amazing.
8. Better sound quality
9. Some people don't even want to swap discs
10. Content (Full 10-20+GB Games) on demand is still far away, as broadband connections are still too slow, and again, people feel empowered when they have the material on their hands (the discs) instead of simply owning it "virtually"; it's marketing.
Blu-ray or HD-DVD or formats bigger than DVD are needed. For multimedia and gaming.
32_Footsteps @ May 17th 2006 12:35AM
"I wish there were more hands on comments about the PS3 games at E3 than articles from Engadget that should stay on Engadget."
Hey, Joystiq guys, mind if I take a crack at this one?
Now, I didn't run into the Joystiq crew at E3, but I was there myself. And I think I know why they don't talk more about the PS3 games shown on the floor.
Quite honestly, there was only 5 or 6 titles that you could actually play on the floor, and most of those were junk. The only one that looked nice was Mobile Suit Gundam, and that one had such terrible play control and AI that anyone would get bored of it within minutes.
As for Assassin's Creed? Joystiq isn't going to tell you about how good of a game it is because, and I stress this, Assassin's Creed was not playable on the show floor. Go through Google Video or YouTube to find a video of Assassin's Creed. The only difference between you watching that video on your computer and what I and other E3 attendees saw was that at E3, we watched it on a larger screen.
Unless you're sitting there with a 40" monitor, in which case, have any spares you can send me?