no, just like the psp, people are gonna use it for other stuff like roms.

Well, this officially turns the PS3 into a proprietary computer, not a game console.

It's now looking more like the MSX, where you both could run arbitrary programs and code your own stuff and play proprietary games.

Don't hold your breath on this one, there's no way Sony are going to allow just anyone to develop apps that run on the PS3.

The Linux SDK will most likely be for developers only.

this not new. Anyone remember the Ps2 linux kit? thats right, the promised the same things back then and look at the homebrew scene for the Ps2...

What does "homebrew" mean?

Yours,
Mainstream Consumer

I don't think the ability to play games that I can already play for free on newgrounds.com will further justify its price. Some of the PS3's software looks compelling, but until the price drops by a lot, I'm sitting it out.

If this leads to an XBMC like app for PS3, you can count me in!

Why can't Sony let consumers customize their PlayStation 3 to meet their needs in the same way people buy PCs online? The PS3's features are indeed living up to the cost, but a lot of us don't want everything it has to offer.

"The question is, will mainstream consumers ignore this key feature?"

Well, it still costs way too much, so: yes.

Just think you will need to install an Anti Virus/SPAM/firewall so hackers can't brick your PS3 now. Open source is great but leave it for the PC, I would sooner use a "PLAY"STATION to "PLAY" games instead.

"this latest revelation implies an added value to the console, which in turn justifies the exorbitant price tag."

So, addition of homebrew support alone all of a sudden justifies PS3's price? Sounds forced argument to me.

Any addition is welcome though. I'm getting it anyway, but I still cringe at the price tag, homebrew or no.

with the endless lies comming out of the sony camp,only a fool would belive any of this. Everything they have said in regards to the ps3 has eathier been copied form MS and nintendo or blodfaced lies. No ps3 for me, and this from a guy who has bought every consle since the genisus( yes even the jaguar and 32X,and three,count 'em three, ps2's)
Maybe I'll give them a chance next round...in ten years:)

Look at it this way: if it's powerful enough, port over emulators for other systems. Makes it a multi-system console! I just might be willing to pay that much for that particular possibility.

If homebrew community do take the PS3 as a new place to start developing, it could open the PS3 up to alot of very interesting stuff.

Not straight away, but once people start getting the hang of developing homebrew apps/games for the console, it would certainly ease the pain of paying $600 for a console.

sony has offered a way to do this with the PS1 with the NetYaroze stuff, and to a certain extent on the PS2 with the linux kit. the question is how will the PS3 choose rather to boot into linux, or into it's own OS. or does it just run Linux as an application, like some other embedded platforms do? i believe that may have been how it worked on the PS2, so while you could do "homebrew" on it, it wasn't particularly useful. either way, they're not offering support or any low-level documentation on it.

it'll be cool if it's true, and i'm sure it is to some extent, but i wouldn't get your hopes up. sony has a way of delivering a less than what they hype.

I don't see why people are getting excited about this.
It's just going to be the same crippled stuff people got with Linux for PS2.

This is more a marketing ploy than anything and does NOT promise any of the imagined support for ?homebrew? that some think it does.

To think that Sony would grant you full access to the hardware, give you an sdk, and let you write any code you want without crushing restrictions is a joke.

Sony needs to make money off this and to allow ?homebrew? would mean pirating on Day One of release; pirating so simple that even the average Joe could ?hack? their system just by downloading a ?homebrew? app from the web directly to their console.

This is great. Perhaps it could be also be used as a Workstation?

Anyway, stop bashing Sony. We know you won't get it because you can't afford it, or because you prefer 360.

"Copying Microsoft" lol, almost everything they've done is a copy. Choke already.

jgrey,

I guess it's just a matter of opinion and what you look for when you're saying justifies. I know I'm not "everyone", but the inclusion of a Blu-Ray player alone more than justifies the cost of the PS3 for me. And the fact that it will be open-source and run Linux is icing on the cake. With the use of the Cell, what you're now getting is PC with the fastest prcoessor available for only $499-$599. The PS3 only has 256MB+256MB or RAM, but Linux has a relatively small footprint in memory so RAM is not a big issue.

And for those that don't like Linux (that's me!) Sony stated originally its intention to run Mac OS X on the platform. That's something that leverages both Sony & Apple vs their common enemy, Microsoft. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could.

Of course this ability might be overlooked by a majority of consumers, but it will create a loyal base of ps3 fans and in the longterm create all kinds of interesting PS3 functionality. Eventually consumers will notice. I didn't by my Xbox until I realize that apps likr XBMC were available for it. Once some friends saw the emulators and XBMC, they finally bought an xbox too.

Sony didn't just shoot themselves in the foot with the PS3, they blew their whole freakin' legs off! I do find some amusement with all the BS that Sony is putting out now though.

Sony needs more people like bd if they are going to succeed.

Oh and btw, bd is Uwe Boll...

Though the implications of this Linux stuff are a little bit beyond me, some people I've spoken to are positively wetting themselves at the prospect.
Geeks, nerds, fanboys, gamers... call them what you like but whether this Linux stuff is beyond most people or not, anything people don't understand will be be seen as "new technology" and will draw them in.

Im pretty sure im living in a world full of hypocrite people, because lets see:

1.- Sony is blocking all the Homebrew in PSP and all the guys out there are screaming, kicking and blaming Sony for this, because they have the right to develop Homebrew stuff.

2.- Now Sony will allow Homebrew in PS3 and all the guys out there are screaming, kicking and blaming Sony for this, because some people say this is not enough for a 600 console but lets see it is another great PS3 feature.

If you think about this, i will not need to buy a Wii for the Virtual Stuff, i will have NES, SNES, N64 emulators on my PS3 ;)

~ Cheer guys.

"Well, this officially turns the PS3 into a proprietary computer, not a game console."

Not a game console? What do you mean by that? By adding this extra functionallity into the device it will cease to play games? Are you forced to use these features? Are there going to be less games comming out for the system?

"this latest revelation implies an added value to the console, which in turn justifies the exorbitant price tag."

So the Expensive hardware in the system is not justified enough?

"The question is, will mainstream consumers ignore this key feature?"

Yes. I am still betting on a large portion of individuals to take use of this. Anywhere from trying to run a rom to making thier own unique game.


"Don't hold your breath on this one, there's no way Sony are going to allow just anyone to develop apps that run on the PS3.
The Linux SDK will most likely be for developers only."

No, you misunderstand. people can create games and apps but they have to do so without the libraries and support. Making it it harder to do so.


Kawanishi further commented: "When a game studio enacts development on a PS3 by entering a license contract, SDK libraries... will be presented, and various technical support given. In contrast, when using Linux World on the PS3... support will fall to the lowest level required, and you must solve and work on things by yourselves."

Has nobody here been gaming for more than 5 years? This is exactly what Sony announced for the PS2.

Why? Because it allows them to classify PS2/PS3 as a general purpose computing device, rather than a toy, which lessens some of their export tax liabilities.

They are just as interested now in supporting the homebrew development community as they were five years ago. Which is to say, not at all.

For Joystiq to say that this little piece of tax legalese 'justifies the exorbitant price tag' is pretty shoddy.

Of course there will be severe restrictions on Homebrew. It won't be sanctioned. Firmware upgrades will be put out to try to stamp it out. Maybe they'll even find a way to push firmware upgrades while the PS3 is online to stop homebrew.

Sony is selling expectations here, nothing else. If the hardcore think homebrew is coming they won't worry about the price as much. You've got to ask yourself though, when has Sony ever been anything but aggressive towards that community.

So why is Sony such a cock blocker on PSP?

Why all of the sudden a change of heart on the PS3?

Somehow, I'm getting used to seeing boots' one-sided brand loyalty in every post about Sony. Boots, why do you think people are reacting so violently to the PS3 after last week's revelations? Do you see a difference between that and what people were saying the week before?

There's a reason we think Sony shot themselves in the foot, and that's because they have.

This justifies the price? Yeah, sure, the Sony fanbase is starting to talk like the executives, that is blatant lies without any glimpse of morality, as if they believed what they are saying ...

Okay, to everybody to think its hypocritical for Sony to block homebrew on the PSP and then encourage it on the PS3, here is why you're stupid:

Sony isn't blocking homebrew on the PSP. They're blocking massive piracy. Everybody I know with an older firmware PSP is using it explicatly to run hacked PSP games with. Yeah, I know there is a homebrew community out there. But I know there is an even bigger community of people who use the exploits to get free games.

And the worries about pirating a game on the PS3 by downloading it to your HD is going to be less of an issue due to the size of the content itself (especially if you get the 20GB version). Plus the PS3 is running on the linux platform, so its going to be more accessible to people interested in programing on it then the PSP. It would be cool for sony to build an interface that would allow for custom code on the PSP, and would still block out piracy. But that would be extremely difficult to do.

Personally, I don't think this feature adds much to the value of the ps3, but I think its a pretty cool feature none the less. I was wondering when joystiq was going to mention it.

-Colin

I want to believe it's a good idea, but all that comes to mind is

IT'S A TRAP.

Oh, also there is a HUGE difference between this and the PS2 homebrew kit. The PS2 homebrew kit was an add-on not sold in stores. If i remember right you had to get it straight from Sony.

Now lets compare.

PS2: Fairly expensive add-on with limited consumer access. Content that could only be shared with other people who had the add-on.

PS3: Included. Content can presumebly be shared with other people.

Big difference people. Get your heads out of your Sony hating asses.

-Colin

A) What mainstream user writes his or her own applications? Coding and mass market don't go together. B) Imagine all the wonderfully destructive crap that will suddenly be available to wipe out your $600 toy.

Sony would be nuts to allow anything to be run on the console that might lead to a problem - that would lead to a phone call about a dead console. When you put a hard drive in the box, all of a sudden you have to worry about all sorts of support issues (and costs) you don't need to worry about without one.

The idea that it justifies $500-600 is still very funny, Colin.

The New Revelation:

I agree the perception of value play a big part there. But I reckon an average joe would cringe at the price tag, as I do. Everyone harps on about how PS3 is becoming a powerful PC at lower cost, but due to my line of work I've always maintained a good PC, separate from console.

Console gaming has been different for me. Yet, the way it's all going it's a matter of time before the 2 become indistinguishable.

Take it this way - if I were to be given a good homebrew addition to PS3 for $600, I'd rather see SONY leave it out and knock off another $100 from its price tag. I would rather pay less to play the typical PlayStation console games than your "icing on the cake".

I agree Momus. But there are retarded arguments and intelligent ones. And I'm seeing a lot of re-re's here.

-Colin

"...Imagine all the wonderfully destructive crap that will suddenly be available to wipe out your $600 toy."

Joe Smith

Exactly Joe! Sony wants you to muck up your PS3 so you can buy another one! I'm sure there is some kind of stipulation or disclaimer (probably hidden too) with the whole Linux thing.

Sony bit off more than they can chew (amazingly). It's Wii360 for me this gen. Maybe I will get a Sony if the price drops dramatically, but not counting on it in the next 5 years or so.

I love all the Sony paranoia crap here. Sony is not purposefully doing this so you have to buy multiple PS3s.

You know what happens when you brick a PSP? You send it to sony, and they send you a new one back. For the cost of shipping.

Oooh, yeah thats an awesome money making scheme. You guys should be economic professors.

-Colin

As somone from digg so eloquently put it

Come on people, where have you been? Linux on the PS3 was announced a long time ago, along with screenshots of it running KDE. The Linux kernal already fully supports the Cell processor, and is fully backed by IBM. Why, you ask? Simple: IBM owns the processor, and they planned on using it in server platforms as well as the PS3. Do you honestly think that IBM would invest this much time, effort, and money into such a revolutionary (not without it's own problems, of course...) product to just give Sony exclusive rights? You must have missed that day in Economics class where they discussed this little concept called "supply and demand." Yes, the PS3 is the flagship that the Cell processor will be launched on, but it will not be the only application for it. IBM fully supports the linux community, and as I said earlier, the kernal support is already built in.

As for those people who question whether or not this will raise the price, or whether or not it is "possible" to do for Sony... It's a computer, people. When you get right down to it, the PS3 is just a computer, just like the Xbox and the Xbox 360. Sony saw the market that arose when people began "hacking" the Xbox, and just wants a piece of that. And no, it's not possible to build the PS3 for $600. It actually costs well over $1000, but exact figures are not known. Same thing happened with Microsoft with both the Xboxes. The parent companies make up the loss over the years with, GASP, video game rights! Thats right folks, you have to pay Sony/Microsoft for the SDK and the rights to publish the game on their platform. Supply and Demand, all over again. But I digress...

There is no reason why Linux should be overly difficult to install and run on the PS3. Microsoft did not support linux, and so it was difficult. Why? Because they were always trying to stop you from installing it! Sony supports the installation of Linux on the PS3 and even ships it with, most likely, it's own version.

You have to see the big picture here. The biggest problem Sony has right now is that people are freaking out over the price. Have you seen everything the PS3 can/is supposed to do? It's not just a game console. It's a DVR, Media Center PC, High-Def TV tuner, personal computer, entertainment console, and a personal server. They engineered it to not just play games, but to do everything you could want to do in your living room. Watch TV, record and re-watch shows, watch DVD's, stream and/or store content, host a fileserver on your personal network, etc.

Sony is handing you the hardware and asking you to decide what you want out of it. By releasing Linux and the basic tools needed to write and compile software for it, as well as allowing third party software to be executed by the processor (except for the game console aspect, that is...), Sony is trying to get us to do their market research for them. In the past, we all just played video games on our consoles. Over the past few years, technology has evolved and the market is moving fast... Sony just wants to give the users a chance to find out what they need out of a console, and allow them to do it themselves. Maybe down the line a bit, you'll see Sony and other companies releasing software for the PS3, you never know.

"It's just going to be the same crippled stuff people got with Linux for PS2."

PS2 Linux wasn't crippled. It was regular old Linux compiled for PS2 hardware. Nothing more or less.

You could do with this what you pleased. Linux itself is open-source, so you could create your own custom kernel or your own apps that interfaced directly with the PS2 hardware. You could also write games that took direct advantage of the PS2 hardware. The problem is most people just weren't very interested in this. But nothing Sony did was "crippling" about the Linux kit. It was what it was.

I'm sure Sony took their experiences with the Net Yaraoze (their first stab at homebrew development - remember, they have a LONG history with this), then the PS2 Linux kit, and realized it would cost them basically nothing to throw that functionality in there (Linux is free, after all), was basically no danger to the system (nobody used the PS2 Linux kit to hack anything), and could only offer them some positive press. It's all up-side for them.

Whether anything comes out of it in terms of homebrews is something I would doubt. But would you rather not have it in there? I'd rather have it in there than not.

//While Linux support on the PS3 has been known for some time, this latest revelation implies an added value to the console, which in turn could justify the exorbitant price tag for some. The question is, will mainstream consumers ignore this key feature?//

So, a publicly-FREE and widely-available OS on a $600 system justifies the price?

Ummm....**no**.
It's just one more 'feature' thrown in (that the majority of potential buyers won't use) to ATTEMPT to justify the price.

Kind of ironic that Sony, who's president has confirmed he loves that consumers will have to work two jobs to afford the system, is uncluding an operating system that was invented by a man, Linux Torvalds, who wanted a free and open OS to be available to fight companies like MS and other proprietary vendors. Anyway, who has their 2 grand saved for PS3, one game and nice TV? Anyone?

That's *Linus* Torlvads, btw

David:

People freak out over the price, because there are many of us who wanted a console gaming platform at a reasonable price. Sony may be handing us a great hardware and system, as you put it, but that is only great if you actually wanted all the components they put in at the price they set.

That's the flaw of that argument you cut & pasted. It assumes that value for money necessarily justifies a high price point (of any product) for everyone. For many of us console owners who have been gaming casually for a couple of decades don't want to dish out $600, even if it comes with a rocket fuel.

Of course there are people who do. But many don't. That's why you see a lot of people ranting at how expensive it is. It's perfectly rational and valid.

I cringe at the price of an iPod but they still sell, because it's the better product. People don't care about money like you internet nerds do. They care about features and easy, familiar, use which Sony has the advantage over the others.

David, give it a rest. Go pick up your paycheck and split it with boots, since he's been doing it for free.

Wow some of you are totally thick!

Cell has much better capabilities at stopping hacking/cracking attempts.
The whole Linux OS will run in the Guest layer of Cell which isnt in direct contact with the hardware (but it lets you send calls to the hardware)
So the guest-layer can filter out any dangerous attempts to damage hardware.
The SPEs on Cell can also be locked off from the INSIDE so that nothing can do a thing to it OR see the code within that SPE.
Cell was designed to be secure, efficient and flexible.

And yes, Sony ARE sllowing it to be on the PS3, its been known for SO long now.
The OS has been custom-made by Sony and IBM (which I also participated in through IBMs Cell community at the developerWorks site)
Most of PS3s apps will need to be re-coded to use Cell effectively.
They will work on Cell (when the have been compiled for Power architecture), but they will be running in comparison to a 1.5Ghz processor because they are only using the PPE and not SPEs)

So for everyone who thinks a firewall will be required, go cry in the corner kiddies.
Linux is one of the most secure OSs around AND its running on one of the most se.. actually THE most secure processor ever.

Thank you please.
-kris-

I believe this could be successful, as long as Sony deploys some sort of network platform to easily share homebrew applications. There needs to be a way to expose average users to the content, or else this will all fall on the wayside and only be used by a niche market.

Colin what makes you think there won't be piracy on the PS3? You're "stupid" to think that there won't be. Maybe not piracy of PS3 games... but you go supporting Linux on a multimedia machine like the PS3 and you can BET the pirates will be buying the machine ONLY because they can play the exact games Nintendo will be selling with the Wii downloaded classic games on their PS3.

Not to mention thousands of arcade games, and possibly PS2 and PS1 games.

I have a PSP and currently use the GTA hack to play homebrew stuff... including SNES games (ZOMG PIRATE)...

what do you think the PS3 Linux OS will be used for? Some dude's calendar program? A kid's garage programmed Tetriz?

LOL no dude... it's going to EMULATE OTHER GAMES and THATS ABOUT IT

I think you'll see that a majority of PS3 owners will ignore it. That's not to say that a lot of others won't use it. There are already myriad ways to fiddle with different consoles and of course PC. You'll find that many will not want to bother with it again. Then there will be many who don't know how or are afraid that they will render their new $600 toy useless if they tried.

If Sony is trying to use this to build value in validating their price tag, then I think it's time for them to move on and market some of the PS3's other abilities. They have a lot of work ahead of them.

To Xander224:

Actually I own an Ipod (and I consider it an expensive gadget that I'm whilling to pay) but I'll never get a PS3 at that price point. I find it too expensive for what I'm going to use it, gaming. I don't find attractive the other features, so It's not for me. I don't have an HD tv, and I don't know anyone who has one. Maybe in few years I'll get one... if bluray wins the battle and the PS3 shows that is a worth buying product (from my point of view of course).

On the linux thing... it is going to be great for the emulation and so on. But other than that linux will be a real pain in the ass for the average consumer. And, even if they allowed total access to the hardware you won't see any good homebrew game or anything. It's just too hard for someone to make a game. Look at a simpler hardware like the DS (I won't speak about PSP as I don't know it's homebrew scene), you won't find any 3d game or anything, it's too hard. There are some really nice apps for the DS, but all it's being made actually is quite simple. Programming is not an easy task, programming in multi-threading for 8 cores on a incredibly complex hardware... that's called HELL. lol

I have a good computer... i don't need another one.

I just want you to know a thing... I consider myself a graphics whore (I suppose that it's because i do 3d stuff for my living, and I love seeing high quality graphics moving in realtime, it's just awesome)... I've been out of the console gaming scene for a lot of years. Guess which console has attracted me back? ;)

This is just my opinion, nothing more nothing less.

Sorry for my poor english. :)

Yeah! The PS3 will be no better than Atari! You know if they had a few problems on the PS2 (best console ever), they will definately have probs on the PS3 (most anticipated console ever). Cuz we all know that Sony can't fix their mistakes. All these years working on the PS3 have been for nothing. I say we all boycott it and sign petitions for it to not be produced. I hate PS3! It's a piece of junk system that crashes all the time.

Oh wait, I've never played one. Nevermind, I guess I'll just buy one and see how it is. Seriously, I think the PS2 ruled all, Sony didn't want to lose that title, so they built a supermachine crammed with the very latest technology. They had no choice but to put the price up that high.

I make almost no money, but if I save up now and put a reserve on it as soon as possible, and keep putting money down on it. I will have it when it comes out. Even tho the graphics card is more than twice as powerful as some of the most powerful one's out now, and it has junky features like... standard wireless controllers, bluetooth, Blu-ray, Linux, wireless internet, photo-realistic games, and the list goes on. I have read everything and always check updates... I see nothing wrong with this machine.