A guide to Joystiq star-whoring
We're often asked why some comments result in positive stars and why some result in loss of stars, so this explainer will, we hope, provide some clarity around the star system.
Here's what we're looking for from commenters:
- Added value: Does the comment add value to the discussion? Does the comment add a new dimension to the topic? Does it ask a good question? Is it unique and interesting?
- Impartiality: A commenter who consistently promotes one console (or attacks the other consoles or systems) will never make the top commenters list. We're hunting for commenters who aren't suffering from a severe case of Fanboyitis. We often review a commenter's history prior to rewarding stars and are careful not to allow extreme partisans of any one system into the top 20.
- Civility: Ad hominem attacks and rough language tend to confuse issues, not clarify them. We're looking for comments that stay on topic and avoid cheap shots.
- Other: Humor, punch, wit, and bribes all help too.
By the way, these are all qualities we're looking for when we hire bloggers for Joystiq, so these criteria are consistent with our editorial mission of providing balanced blogging of the video game industry.
One last note on comments: the cream will rise to the top. Quality commenters will, over time, gain more stars than they lose.
Your questions on the star system answered in the comments, below.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Jedi6 @ May 18th 2006 8:36AM
Fanboys should win -3 stars every stupid comment.
Olly @ May 18th 2006 8:37AM
so how exactly would one go about 'Bribing' joystiq?
Clay @ May 18th 2006 8:39AM
Hrm, something must be wrong; I've been using my tact and fine humor for ages now and I'm always overlooked :(
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:40AM
Olly: bribe minimums start at $1,000,000 US wired to our Caymanian bank account. Thanks for asking!
White Rose Duelist @ May 18th 2006 8:42AM
Not a question, but a suggestion (which I believe 32_footsteps made earlier, but I want to throw my support behind).
When someone gets a change in their stars, send an email explaining why. It doesn't need to be much more than "Your comment on thread X was funny" or "That was a naughty word you used in thread Y". But people will probably be posting more things that you like if they have a demonstration exactly what you do or don't like.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:44AM
Clay: I just reviewed your last 30 or so comments. They're all too short for them to stand out, really. Overall, you're right, your humor is good. It's just that no single comment really pops out as star-worthy.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:45AM
"When someone gets a change in their stars, send an email explaining why."
We've put in a request for this to the technical team. Right now, the software doesn't really support this. It's horribly labor-intensive to do this manually.
Don Jose @ May 18th 2006 8:45AM
Well, I'm no fanboy, but from time to time I do come down with Sony-Hateritis, but it always feels more like common sense than disease.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:48AM
No idea, Jeffler. Maybe because you took the time to create a blog post (randomfucker.com) responding to that whole racism debate.
jaemz @ May 18th 2006 8:48AM
I like the idea of the star system. I definately find myself rethinking a negative comment that I might have otherwise posted.
Sometimes trolls just arn't worth the effort (and loss of hard-earned stars) to put them back under their bridge. Keep up the good work vc.
Zero_ @ May 18th 2006 8:50AM
Heh, I only recently realised I managed to get 2 stars. Is there a way to check what posts have been awarded a 'star'?
Olly @ May 18th 2006 8:50AM
VC: hmm, ok then. I'll get my secretary right on it. I should have some spare change like that in my office somewhere...
this star better be good.
the Brayn @ May 18th 2006 8:54AM
How do you tell if someone is who they say they are? By this I mean that I have not noticed any way to register usernames. So basically anyone can come in and use someone else's name and tarnish their reputation. I may just be missing a way to register the name on the site.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:54AM
Zero -- I don't have that info, but I think I rewarded you with one for this comment:
Kid in yellow: "So guys, how was that Metal Gear Solid Fo - Oh shit. Ugh guys... someone is taking our photo, we should leave."
Kid on the ground: "SHUTUPZ!! LOOK AT TEH MARIO!"
This was also a good comment:
"There is such a thing as negative publicity as Alkaiser pointed out. Michael Jackson is a good example, however, I don't believe this is the exact example. The name change revitalised people on the system, and that system's news and previews were almost non-existant, until Red Steel and the name change, it was probably a good move by Nintendo in order to obtain the curiosity of everyone.
I never have disliked the name, nor do I like it. It's an odd choice that I think Nintendo seemed to have gone slightly overboard with their newly adopted philosophy. Whilst it has a good meaning behind it, if it takes about 150 words to explain the significance of it, that's when you've gone a little too deep.
As long as the machine is as innovative as it says it is, I'm all for it."
LordAlu @ May 18th 2006 8:54AM
This star system is a pretty good comment rating system; most blog or news sites usually allow other users to rate a comment, which is obviously open to abuse (either from friends rating them excellent or fanboys etc. rating them bad just because they may support a different point of view).
Kudos to Joystiq for only allowing ratings from themselves - it helps promote good commenting and discussion rather than letting every post be reduced into arguments about whether the PS3 will destroy everyone coz it's "t3h ub3r b0x" or something.
I also agree with White Rose Duelist; it would be helpful to know what your change in rating is for, and it's good to hear from vc that it has been requested - maybe by creating a simple form that allows you to enter the commenters' email address and check boxes for what they have done (for example a check box for impartial commenting, one for making an excellent point etc)?
elmer @ May 18th 2006 8:55AM
I Protest!
Fanboys are fanboys for a reason.
I say so long as their arguments are sound, measured, acknowledge the attributes of the competition and meet the other criteria, people should be awarded, not punished. Comments are for opinions after all.
Hear protesteth Nintendo Fanboy Elmer
ac @ May 18th 2006 8:57AM
That's a really cool idea they've implemented. They should market an api for said system to other sites. I have often been sucked into the religeous aspect of supporting one console, os or what have you, but if I was being ranked, i wouls certainly check my thoughts before I type them out. Very cool.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:58AM
"I say so long as their arguments are sound, measured, acknowledge the attributes of the competition and meet the other criteria, people should be awarded, not punished."
That's what we say too. The problem is, most fanboys get so passionate about their system of choice that they inevitably lose the ability to acknowledge the attributes of the competition.
I'd wager that each of our top 20 commenters have a system of choice, but they all do a good job of keeping that preference in check when discussing the topics that appear on this blog.
Prof-KOS @ May 18th 2006 8:59AM
Vlad,
Thanks for the clarification. For my part I know where my stars came from, and thanks for that. I agree that the blatant trolling and 'fanboy' attutudes should not be rewarded. Keep up the good work.
vc @ May 18th 2006 8:59AM
"How do you tell if someone is who they say they are? By this I mean that I have not noticed any way to register usernames."
Stars are tied to email addresses and email addresses only.
elmer @ May 18th 2006 9:00AM
"Here", not "hear".
Tell me Lords of Joystiq.
What is the punishment for incomprehensible spelling and grammar?
Niel @ May 18th 2006 9:01AM
Can I have a star pretty please with a cherry on top?
Paul Cosgrove @ May 18th 2006 9:02AM
I'd like to be able to find out where I got my stars - this blog post mentions that you can check the comment history of users, so it can't be THAT hard to make the facility available for the public?
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:02AM
Elmer: I doubt that any of our top 20 commenters make such errors regularly, but none of us (not even the Joystiq staff) are above the occasional typo. We're forgiving of honest mistakes.
I've got a personal pet peeve about its/it's, though. I ding a star for one of those errors. ;)
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:08AM
Paul: There are some technical hurdles with doing that.
For one thing, it'd greatly increase the load on our database to have thousands of readers constantly requesting the records of this or that commenter.
For another, the feature is only available to staff who are registered and logged in. It's not been constructed for public use, and opening up that feature would require reworking of the registration and cookies system. Muddying the divide between staff tools and reader tools might also create security vulnerabilities.
Third, this tool is tied to the email address (and IP address) of a poster. We'd have to significantly rework the tool to hide these personal identifiers, or they'd be abused by spammers and stalker-types.
I agree that it'd be nice to be able to see the complete history of a commenter, though, because that'd allow you to really get to know someone's posting style. It'd allow everyone to look at the top 20 commenters to learn what's being rewarded.
Kye @ May 18th 2006 9:08AM
Oh my; How everyone in this blog speaks with grammar that would impress even Her Majesty the Queen.
Might one add that one also agree-eth that the star system is quite a good idea *friendly smile*
However, may one be so bold as to direct yourselves to my own blog page. I have (without prompting) done one or two games and console reviews (amongst other writings).
http://spaces.msn.com/kye-the-brown/blog/?_c02_owner=1
One wonders if this work (dedicated solely to the unbiased love of games) though not on joystiq, would be eligable for star nomination.
Sincerely
Kye
turken @ May 18th 2006 9:11AM
Just a couple questions...
First, how do you keep track of users, by name or by email? I usually post under one of two accounts (but with the same name) depending on whether I'm at work or at home. So am I actually working against myself here?
And second, I try not to complain too much, but how does Mt. Jack Thompson manage to earn any stars at all, when his postings are inherently inflammatory and trollish?
glitched @ May 18th 2006 9:12AM
so, is this the time/place to ask why none of my posts havent received a star? Its not as bad as autoblog where I beleive some of my posts really did deserve one though...
isuma @ May 18th 2006 9:14AM
"By the way, these are all qualities we're looking for when we hire bloggers for Joystiq, so these criteria are consistent with our editorial mission of providing balanced blogging of the video game industry."
Balanced blogging my foot. Remember the incessant posts about the name of the Wii when it was revealed. What about the latest fiasco with the 'fake' BD demonstration by Sony?
Fan @ May 18th 2006 9:14AM
Hi vc
I would like to know were my -2 stars came from. I think I went from +2 to -2 wich was a bit of a bummer. I really support the idea of feedback when given a - or + star.
I dont really like beeing under editorial control so I would much prefer a peer rating system.
bryan @ May 18th 2006 9:15AM
I am impressed you are taking the time to talk to commenters. The stars make people feel like they are part of a community, but I don?t see much else use. I don?t skip the low star comments when reading about a post, and only really notice the stars when some kid starts posting ridiculous/offensive crap and then complains about their negative rating.
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:16AM
"so, is this the time/place to ask why none of my posts havent received a star?"
Sometimes we just miss really valuable comments. There's no guarantee that every awesome comment will get a star. If that were the case, then our top 20 commenters would likely have 5 more stars each.
Turken: your first question is answered above...
Your second question, "And second, I try not to complain too much, but how does Mt. Jack Thompson manage to earn any stars at all, when his postings are inherently inflammatory and trollish?"
We may have given the REAL JT a star to differentiate him from the hordes of imitators who often post here under the same name. We verify his email address once and give him a star so that he stands out. This is a special accommodation made for an infamous game hater.
boots (former bd (former b)) @ May 18th 2006 9:17AM
Jedi6, if fanboys post intelligent comments, should they earn 3 stars for each?
Anyway...
I've seen "The ZeroCorpse" bash Final Fantasy a lot of times and still get stars.
There's this Cage guy constantly trolling PS3 fanboy and getting no negatives (like he would care anyway). Kizza has like -5 stars, but he is not constantly on sites of consoles he dislikes.
Suicide Ninja's comments are repetitive "Say no to HD-DVD and Blu-ray", promote a console over the other "Everything PS2 did, Xbox did better, so I don't understand how could anyone like PS2", and try to pass opinions as facts, such as "Splinter Cell > MGS" (he has 1 star).
bandit has 2 stars, even when he often goes off topic, is severely biased in favor of 360, and uses buzzwords constantly to "analyze" each console, even when he clearly doesn't do one. Proof? Among some things he has written before: He said 1080p would be impossible on PS3, with an explanation that now can obviously be claimed as bogus.
And then, we should admit that there are the writters of other blogs that aren't the most non-biased persons. While Joystiq is a great blog, it isn't perfect, and you know it.
I know I have my things too (such as bashing Xbox fanboys and responding to their flamebait with cheapshots, and bias against Microsoft), even if my comments can be useful more than half of the time (for a reason I've been offered to write for two blogs), but I have ZERO stars, so there's not much people can complain about.
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:18AM
"Balanced blogging my foot. Remember the incessant posts about the name of the Wii when it was revealed. What about the latest fiasco with the 'fake' BD demonstration by Sony?"
And how about the "Xbox 360 annoyances" posts? You forgot how badly those pissed off the Xbox 360 fanboys.
We take shots at everyone, Isuma. You must be a reader that only recently joined us if you do not know this.
Bryan: we've got some enhancement requests for the star system that involve greater repercussions for negative stars.
Alex Keen @ May 18th 2006 9:20AM
I don't want to know where the stars come from or why I have them. Keep the mystery alive, otherwise you're just going to have petty bickering to resolve. :)
White Rose Duelist @ May 18th 2006 9:20AM
Isuma - you have to go all the way back to page 2 to find that post:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/16/sony-fakes-blu-ray-on-vaio/
Anyway, that theory has been debunked. Why they had a copy of the movie for the regular DVD (and not even on a Sony disc), no one knows, but there was in fact a Blu-ray disc there in one of the computers.
Andir @ May 18th 2006 9:20AM
Preparing for my -1 star...
"Civility: Ad hominem attacks and rough language tend to confuse issues, not clarify them. We're looking for comments that stay on topic and avoid cheap shots."
"By the way, these are all qualities we're looking for when we hire bloggers for Joystiq"
So, what's the reason for all the system bashing then? The Wii name calling, Xbox crash reporting, and PS3 price whining...
If you look for these qualities in your reporters, I think some of them slipped through the cracks.
Chris Clark @ May 18th 2006 9:20AM
I find it Ironic that Joystiq is trying to encourage less bias posts and fanboyisms when the past week or so has been a non-stop Sony bashfest by their writers.
Riiiiiight. You can give me a point off for being hypocrites.
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:22AM
"I've seen "The ZeroCorpse" bash Final Fantasy a lot of times and still get stars."
This is because we like contrarian viewpoints. We love it when someone challenges "conventional" wisdom. I can tell you that he's lost stars for some of his posts. It's a win-some, lose-some game. Repeated positive contributions do result in a net positive star balance, however.
"There's this Cage guy constantly trolling PS3 fanboy and getting no negatives"
I'll forward that note to the PS3 Fanboy bloggers.
"Kizza has like -5 stars, but he is not constantly on sites of consoles he dislikes."
He's been banned multiple times. Like a fungus, he keeps registering new email addresses and coming back. Thankfully, we haven't seen him in a while.
"And then, we should admit that there are the writters of other blogs that aren't the most non-biased persons. While Joystiq is a great blog, it isn't perfect, and you know it."
We're definitely not perfect! I hope that we haven't been giving the impression that we think we are.
32_Footsteps @ May 18th 2006 9:22AM
I've got a wild idea - maybe there should be some sort of permanent link on the front page to either this or the first post explaining the star system. That way, we can just point people to them in a couple months when we start hearing the "How do I get stars?" chorus.
Anyhow, I've said it before, but overall you shouldn't put too much stock in any one person's star rating. Yeah, so I have 9 stars as of when I write this post. This doesn't mean I have any more insight, humor, or reasonable points than someone sitting there without any. There's hundreds of posts here, and you can't expect the Joystiq people to give stars to each one that's good.
Also, judging from personal experience, it's not that you can't make obvious statements about system preference. It's that you have to make them carefully. Anyone who has seen me comment in any discussion about portable systems knows I'm a very heavy partisan of the DS and extremely dubious of the PSP. I'm not afraid to admit it. However, I base my criticisms on solid facts about both systems and the companies behind them. I also make sure to say under what conditions I'd relent and become a happy PSP owner.
Finally, Joystiq, I've already wired $11 million for stars already received. My bank is starting to get suspicious about all the activity going towards the Caymans. Any chance you have a Swiss account that us "high volume" spenders can send to?
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:23AM
"So, what's the reason for all the system bashing then? The Wii name calling, Xbox crash reporting, and PS3 price whining..."
We're equal opportunity bashers. So long as we're not blind to the faults of any one system, we encourage bloggers to look for the faults in the big three.
BenDoverx @ May 18th 2006 9:25AM
As Elmer commented earlier, I highly recommend some sort of penalty for misspelling in a comment. I mean, maybe you guys can let one or two slide. But after two misspellings, then there should be a consequence.
Thryon @ May 18th 2006 9:25AM
Nice system indeed. Did you ever think of adding value to the stars? Take a cue from Mario 64, where you may unlock "doors" to other sections of your website only if you have so many stars, or if you get say -10 stars, your account gets banned. Maybe you could convert the stars into MS Points for free Live games. But since the stars do not provide any side effect,it all comes down to being of little importance.
Having said that....do I get a star? :P
juicy X @ May 18th 2006 9:25AM
"Impartiality: A commenter who consistently......"
hmmm.......what if you hate all the systems, i mean if people who like all three are rewarded when it comes to thiere comments "sounding" then surely people who hate all three shouldnt be punished as flamers......apart from that i agree that people who make comments as a means to put forward argumentitive and nonsensical statements for the sake of it should lose stars. add to that recent ann.........etc. etc. etc.
;)
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:26AM
Alex Keen got a star for his VERY insightful comment. This is exactly why we refuse to create a big set of star rules and bylaws as some commenters have requested. We're not going to do conflict resolution and so on.
This post is kept vague on purpose. We're just letting people know what sort of quality we're looking for.
32_Footsteps @ May 18th 2006 9:28AM
"We're definitely not perfect! I hope that we haven't been giving the impression that we think we are."
I wouldn't say you are. Of course, I'm wondering who has been giving out the impression that an opinion blog about video games has to be 100% subjective. Or positive towards everything.
More often than not, it's not that people are complaining about bias. They're complaining that you don't share *their* bias.
Alex Keen @ May 18th 2006 9:28AM
Thanks Vlad, does this mean I can exchange my stars for a copy of Grandma's Boy?
x23 @ May 18th 2006 9:28AM
it seems as if the stars transfer over to other Weblogs Inc. blogs... but not all.
i randomly received a star at some point in time... but i had no idea where it came from once i realized it showed up in both Engadget as well as Joystiq... but then i noticed it doesn't show in Autoblog.
so now i can't tell if i got 2 individual stars... 1 in Engadget and 1 in Joystiq... or if i got 1 star total that happens to show up in *some* of the Weblogs Inc blogs... though not all.
then again. a star for a comment on Autoblog doesn't really pertain to anything gadget/game related. so i could see there being some star grouping between some blogs.
now i've just managed to confused myself even more.
vc @ May 18th 2006 9:28AM
"I highly recommend some sort of penalty for misspelling in a comment. I mean, maybe you guys can let one or two slide. But after two misspellings, then there should be a consequence."
Nice idea in theory, but very difficult to come up with an automated or computer-assisted method to do this in practice.
Oh, and as his comment shows, 32_footsteps really gets it.
White Rose Duelist @ May 18th 2006 9:28AM
Chris Clark - Sony has been eminently bashable lately. Between the price and the poor showing at other parts of E3, there's been very little positive to say about them lately.
If you look back, you'll find that all the systems get the hammer when it is deserved. Two weeks before E3 was all about the strange new name of the Revolution, and the most positive spin on it was "we'll get used to it." And there were more annoyances than joys with the Xbox360's release.
Impartial reporting includes showing the good and bad aspects of each console. Because of the nature of a blog, both sides won't necessarily be reported at the same time, - but Joystiq has always reported each as they were relevant