Girls 'n' Games event: this news is so old
by Jennie Lees 
{ May 19th 2006 at 8:55PM }
While E3's keynotes were kicking off last week, several academics, developers and advocates of women in gaming gathered at UCLA to discuss girls, games and everything relating to the two. However, from Gamasutra's account of the event, nothing new was really discussed. Some of the key points brought up:- Girls play games. (Well, duh.)
- Developers shouldn't try to focus on "girl game design" -- stereotyping game design by gender leads to missteps.
- Player-generated content is popular amongst girls, as is social gameplay.
- "Cuteness" in games, like anime and manga culture in Japan, encourages girls to get involved in gameplay.
- Women gamers and girl gamers are different; women and teenage girls have different demands on their time.
- Girls and women shouldn't just be gamers, but developers too.
We can't help feeling an overwhelming sense of déja vu at these comments, all of which came up at the Women's Game Conference last year, and few of which were novel even then. While it's useful for developers to be aware of the range of demographics that will eventually end up buying -- or choosing not to buy -- their games, do we really need to hear the same points again and again? Is the "women in games" movement a stuck record?
Some panels focus on getting women to play games; others focus on the games women play and examine how upcoming games can learn from them to appeal to a wider audience. Both are important to game development and the future of the industry, but we wonder how long these conferences and panels can feature the same people repeating the same points before the rest of the industry closes its ears in boredom.
[Image from Gamasutra article.]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Alkaiser @ May 19th 2006 9:10PM
What? A Convention full of female gamers and no booth babes?
No wonder it got lost in all the E3 coverage. :)
It's sad to see how this same groun keep getting retread. I think it's because we're at the point where games are sort of grabbing the attention of women, and then these people are kind of stuck trying to justify why they exist.
This process is about to happen of its own accord, so these panels are becoming more and more useless in my opinion. Unless they come up with a focused goal, I think it's time for them to pat themselves on the back, step aside, and enjoy the change that is taking place.
David @ May 19th 2006 9:30PM
Didn't they have one of these things right around the time of X05 (or whatever that microsoft thing was) As I recall they didn't acomplish much back then either. Today they merely exist for people to know they're around and to get attention for women in the games industry. Not a whole lot of good it's done for 'censoring' women however,(SIN episodes anyone?)
What they should really focus on is helping female gamers feel more appreciated. Anyone who's ever played on xbox live would never in a normal state of mind send their daughters or wives off to play a game of halo with voice chat. We need strict filters damnit!
CountZero @ May 19th 2006 9:30PM
When it really comes down to it, should anyone even care if females play games or not? I've know female gamers for as long as I can remember, I've had my ass kicked by female gamers before and you know what, It's never once mattered to me that they are female.
Gamers are people, doesn't matter what gender they are it won't make them any better or worse at video games then the next person.
So maybe Males buy more games then Females, does that mean games should be changed to appeal more to the female audience? No, they shouldn't. Game should continue to be made the same way they are to day, to appeal to people who play games.
Kevin @ May 19th 2006 9:31PM
Wait a minute...you mean girls play videogames? And not just with dolls? Boy, have I been misinformed.
Kevin @ May 19th 2006 9:33PM
Dude, #2, I'm to the point where *I* hate playing Halo 2 now because the sheer amount of filth that pours out is just astounding. And why does it just seem to be limited to that game? I mean, when I play Uno, someone doesn't tell me they're gonna teabag my corpse.
Ian @ May 19th 2006 9:43PM
You know if they wanted equality in gaming and stuff they wouldn't keep seperating themselves by making clans like PMS and conventions for just girl gamers.
gozirah @ May 19th 2006 9:44PM
Is marketing strategy an okay venue to promote gender and cultural stereotypes? I suppose there are a group of sensititive, nurturing, and casual gamers out there (let's codename them "women") who aren't buying enough games yet, and it's reasonable that the industry in their desperation wants to crack open new markets.
I just think it's funny that the ideas presented in the gamasutra article seems to be tiptoeing around wanting present generalizations about women as consumers but also wanting doing so in a PC manner.
I will admit there are gender differences due to cultural influences and maybe even innate propensities, but maybe marketers should be speak more specifically. For example, maybe women surveyed in the southwest US .... and are therefore an untapped market. Or sensitive coal miners in Alberta have shown a preference for... and therefore would enjoy cell phone games.
Ah hell, wait no, stereotyping is fine. In fact maybe they should have a conference and find out why old people aren't buying enough games.
I am no expert in current opinion in women's studies, but is there really such thing as a female identity in America? Aren't there lot's of different kinds?
Perhaps more to the point, is the study of focus groups really going to get innovation in games? But do I agree that getting different people to consider becoming developers could get new perspectives and perhaps spark innovation.
Xiath @ May 19th 2006 9:46PM
Kevin, there is no amount of joy equal to teabagging someone in Uno. I know I do it all the time when I play the game.
But seriously the only reason that Halo is pretty much the worst, language wise, is because it's the game that the younger kids play the most, and whats cooler than to be a little kid cursing up a storm? Nothing, to them that makes them feel older, but all it really does is do the opposite.
Jappleng @ May 19th 2006 9:53PM
The DS has introduced games to a lot of new girl-gamers with nintendogs alone. I could just imagine what the Wii will do. What if guys become the minority of gaming? *gets sad* ..... *ponders* ...... *smiles* it wouldn't be a bad thing at all!
GTgamer @ May 19th 2006 9:59PM
I haven't read the article, but the bullet points already seem to
contradict themselves...
# Developers shouldn't try to focus on "girl game design" -- stereotyping game design by gender leads to missteps.
# Player-generated content is popular amongst girls, as is social gameplay.
# "Cuteness" in games, like anime and manga culture in Japan, encourages girls to get involved in gameplay.
So don't explicitly target girls, but try to make games with elements that appeal girls? To quote Kyle's mom..."What?! What?! What?!"
I always find it odd when people demand that hobbies must have mass appeal. It used to be that hobbies were spawned by someone doing something that they like, someone else thought it was cool and participated in it too. Now it seems like people always insist that every hobby/activity must have fans/participants whose social makeup correlates to the national demographic.
Dylan @ May 19th 2006 10:25PM
I'd like to make one good game where the hero just happens to be a kinda cute, kinda cool clothes-wearing, B-cupped girl.
Kerri @ May 19th 2006 10:31PM
Hmm, let's see. I am female and I play games. Big deal. Why do things have to be gender-specific? I play all types of games ranging from COD2 to Mario Party 7.
A developer can be male or female. What is important is they possess the talent to do so. It doesn't matter their gender...so yes, this crap gets old.
Kerri @ May 19th 2006 10:32PM
Oh yeah, forgot to add...I don't talk on xbox live simply because I am more likely to hear nasty comments regarding my sex, so I just don't speak...so yeah, that would be nice if that could change.
Aikinai @ May 19th 2006 10:51PM
Am I the only one that thought in the picture they were dressed as red ninjas?
Raikage @ May 19th 2006 11:40PM
This is a great topic which is hard to solve, not by the fault of the industry but the fault of society and the way they view video games. It's not new, it happend with T.V., older people just don't understand so they "despise" video games in a sense. Yes I know it is unfair...I live with a Jack Thomson like mother who couldn't hate anything more than ANY video game.
But as I'm hopeing, Nintendo has the best chance to curb the "uncool/strange/antisociety" view of video games (What Pre/Teen age girl would want to be viewed as a geek/nerd).
I truly hope Nintendo focuses on the overall fun factor of games, Not stereotyping them. If a game is fun...It's fun for everyone. If a game is centered tward the female cliche (SP?)...It usually is not fun.
Mario/Metroid(Especially because of the herione)/Zelda/Jak/Ratchet/Sly/(sorry I tryied to think of some family friendly X-box games but...I can't(sports/racing maybe?)). All these games are fun(to most people anyway)but are not centered around girly stuff like...I don't know Shopping/dressup sims(lol)?
I like Nintendo's approach, trying to hit the mass market. And those games above are fun, but a HUGE disadvantage is the control of these games. To put it bluntly...WAY too many buttons, and WAY to complicated (the control and interfaces).
I had my dad play Mercinaries once...It was horrible...he couldn't grasp the moving, aming, shooting, reloading(LOL he said I JUST WANT TO KILL NO STUPID RELOADING, unlimited ammo is what I want!) getting into vehicles, etc. That made me think of when I first played Goldeneye, It was REALLY hard and complicated, I was a gamer before so I didn't give up on it but if your new to video games and you get all these complicated controls thrown at you...you will just give up.
So in conclusion, The Wiimote(and Nunchaku) is much more natural to a person, moving that is. Also when my dad was playing he said all he wanted to do is point and shoot, why can't we as gamers seen that first? I am not a fanboy of any console, I have and love them all (except the broke PS2 that I paid $400 for at launch) but I do see the light that Nintendo is makeing and I as a gamer hope that Nintendo sucseedes in bringing gaming to the mass market. I myself am selling all my systems and reverting back to a casual gamer (from hardcore of course) and the only console I plan on buying(for a long time anyway)is the Wii and I'll keep my DS (I got my teachers hooked on Brain Age LOL) no hard feelings against Microsoft and Sony but gaming needs to get a wider audience and I think Nintendo can pull it off.
P.S. If you read this I love you.
Goodbye hardcore gaming world Goodbye...
The Raikage...
Kerber @ May 19th 2006 11:49PM
Girl Gamers: "Exploit me!"
Game companies: "We're trying, give us some tips!"
Girl Gamers: "Appeal to my 'girliness,' but never imply that I'm 'girly.' That would be stereotyping."
Does this strike anyone else as hypocritical?
I don't think that game companies should feel obligated to make games specifically for girls. If there's a market for those games (and obviously there is), smart companies will naturally compete to fill that niche. That's capitalism.
It's just a matter of time before the supply of female-centric games meets the rising(?) demand. Does anyone think that these conferences are speeding that process along with their insultingly obvious, albeit contradictory suggestions?
Or are these really serving as a kind of support group for a gaming minority? Maybe these help bitter, female gamers out there feel like someone is paying attention to them and that there is light at the end of the wii-mote.
Raikage @ May 19th 2006 11:52PM
I will still keep up with my Joystiq reading of course:P
Great job people at Joystiq...
I was thinkin'...The Wii should have a theme song: Wii Are All on Drugs, by Wiizer of course...tee hee sorry I had to do it...TOUCH FUZZY GET DIZZY...Wiiiiiiiiiiii
bandersnatch @ May 20th 2006 2:06AM
#16,
girls sending mixed messages? say it aint so. ;)
digitalFrequency @ May 20th 2006 3:12AM
So... some questions come to mind
- who cares if girls play games?
It was mentioned earlier, but I'll reiterate saying that it's a market just waiting to be harnessed. If girls play games, video game companies make more money.
- who cares if girls develop video games?
The reason why I think the game development community might want girls to develop video games as well is probably to put in that extra input. For example, I believe when voice recognition was developed, it was develop mostly, if not all, males. It turned out that when women try to use this voice recognition system when it first came around, the system failed to recognize their voice.
Though that's a rather shallow example, perhaps a more deeper example would involve the arrangement of GUI or controlling schemes. Putting any gender role aside, I think it's possible that women might think differently than men. I'm no psychology major so I couldn't really back that up, but if that's the case, then there are potentially many sub-messages that may affect the way a female approaches a game.
- it's not like we encourage more males to become nurses. if girls want to develop games, they will.
So with the idea of gender roles in the mix, it is possible that the reason why females may not be interested in video games is because of gender roles. From growing up to entering school and beyond, it is possible that males and females are encouraged to do different things (kinda like when parents buy boys a train and girls a barbie doll sort of thing).
In addition, there are chances that females may become intimidated of the field as a result these gender roles. A real example involves a female taking AP computer science. The guys in her class would make fun of her for taking the class. Though it was probably in small doses, overall it probably made an impact. This is just one small example, but I'm sure there are others.
The bottom line is that it's just gonna take a little more time before this whole gender role thing straightens out. There's nothing really to expedite it. And implementing a form of "affirmative action" would just be lame I think.
I think Nintendo might be on to something though... just maybe since their goal is to reach out to everyone.
Spoon @ May 20th 2006 10:24AM
Haha, kinda reminds me of when I was taking French last year:
"This is Jean Claude! Jean Claude is a French teenager! Did you know French teenagers like pizza??!"
HOLY SHIT NO WAI
jennie @ May 20th 2006 10:37AM
I used to play Halo a lot. I've logged more hours in multiplayer Halo 2 online than in any other game, my entire life; admittedly, I don't have ways to track the stuff I played as a kid/teenager.
I gave up playing a couple of months ago. A number of reasons. I couldn't commit the time that my competitive team needed -- running a clan, blogging for Joystiq, doing a degree all clashed with my other main goal, getting to level 60 in WoW ;) But fundamentally I was bored of the attitude I found in the game. In all my playing time I ran into other girls about five times in straight-up matchmaking. 90% of the rest of the matches I played involved trash-talking, cat-calling, teabagging and all the other things we've come to know and love about Halo. It was worse when I was a new player and would say "hi" in pregame lobby, only to be met with a ton of insults about my gender and nationality. I've heard attacks at people due to perceived race and religion too -- it's not just girls that suffer. But the key reason I got fed up with the game was the attitude of teams we played against competitively -- gamebattles matches, and the like -- who just couldn't accept losing to girls, and who couldn't win gracefully without calling us stupid fat w****s who should get back in the kitchen. Sigh. Matchmaking, I can understand; it's strangers. Scheduled clan-matches? No. When the ladders that support these clan matches don't take any action about behaviour like this, calling it normal, and calling us liars for exaggerating it -- then it's time to move on.
As for the other comments in this thread, yes, there is a slight contradiction between saying "girls like X so let's put it in our games" and "let's not design games for girls". However, adding extra features because they appeal to a wider demographic is separate from designing a game that has a pink box and is about ponies. Making a MMO that allows a huge amount of character customisation and role-play doesn't necessarily mean you have to make it about warrior princesses and god knows what else girls are supposed to like.
One of the coolest games out there that has a huge female population is Second Life. Was it designed "for girls"? I doubt it. It was designed as a virtual sandbox -- "you build it and they will come". Most of the female players I know liken it to The Sims. Most of the male players I know see it as a cheap 3D modelling tool, an easy way to develop games, a good source of cybersex and furry culture. Crazy stuff.
As for Nintendo. The controller and the name (perhaps) are key frontiers on which the Wii disassociates itself with previous generations of console gaming; but I know plenty of women who play things like SingStar on PS2, dance games, Guitar Hero, etc. I'm part of a thriving community of women on the Xbox. And I've already mentioned PC games. Not to mention casual games on mobile phones and the desktop/XBLA, both of which are frequently cited as female-friendly (they weren't designed to appeal to women specifically, yet draw in a huge female audience).
Nintendo isn't the only platform pushing the envelope in terms of gender appeal, and y'know what? When I first picked up a Wii controller, I felt awkward. Sure, that passed after I lost a couple of rounds of tennis, but that "feeling awkward with the controls" moment is something few women I have played with ever get past. It's the reason two of my closest friends love Singstar and dance mats, but won't play Halo. Still, the novelty of the controller and the variety expressed in the Wii's games lineup are two strong assets -- but the push for women to play games is healthy on all platforms and consoles, not just Nintendo.
32_Footsteps @ May 20th 2006 10:49AM
Hmm... you know what is missing in Ye Olde List To Attract Females To Gaming? The same damn thing that's *always* missing from these lists.
Marketing.
It seems to me that, judging by conversations I have with women (some who game, some who don't) and reading comments from female gamers, that plenty of women are already set to be video gamers. I look at my wife as the classic example. You know what game she asks to play more than any other? Guilty Gear X2. Not exactly what you'd call a stereotypically girly game.
But here's the thing - game advertisements are definitely skewed towards guys. I'm not just talking about obvious cases like ads for the Tomb Raider games. I'm talking about ads for fighting games that emphasize female characters and hard-hitting action. I'm talking about ads for RTS games that emphasize trying to conquer all foes and rule the world.
And let's not forget sex appeal towards women. Yes, women produce hormones too, and they like their eye candy just as much as men do. I remember chatting with one female gamer, when Devil May Cry 3 came up. Was the first thing she talked about the varied combat system, trying to look cool, or anything like that? No, she started talking about how much she loved that the first scene in the game was Dante walking out of the shower with nothing but a towel between him and an AO rating.
You know what video game marketing should look at? The NFL. Seriously. The NFL is a brutally violent sport, one in which the average career lasts less than 4 seasons long due to the potential for injury among most positions. It's one in which the testosterone is rampantly coursing, with humongous alpha males are constantly trying to assert themselves in some of the nastiest conditions you can imagine. And the league is more popular now than in any point in its history, and that's partly because they've managed to successfully market towards women, who make an increasingly large portion of NFL fans.
All of the age-old solutions mentioned above are certainly things that need to happen. But ultimately, in order to get more women involved, we have to get more women interested in the first place. And that means adjusting ad campaigns to get them interested in video games in the first place.
The_Samanthatron @ May 20th 2006 11:43AM
32_Footsteps has it down straight. Big-breasted scantily-clad voluptuous female characters are surprisingly not the reason girls play games. I play games of all genres, but it sure would be nice to see some male totty flaunted.
Game content doesn't really need to change that much. A better balance of gleaming hot men to all the thong-clad women, perhaps, but I like my anti-social violence and competetive bloodfests as much as I love my social cooperative MMORPG'ing. In fact, as with many things in the big wide gender debate, I think women are more likely to play a broader variety of games. It's less socially acceptable, for example, for men to do female-associated things than it is for women to do male-associated things. Example - women can play football, while men who dance are considered eccentric if not 'gay' (not my PoV, just general 'vibes' coming from media representation and school experiences and such). Similarly, I know female gamers who enjoy violent games, but males who won't play a cutesy platformer, regardless of ingeniousness, because they don't want to be labelled 'girly'.
The imbalance is set rather rigidly in most Western society at the moment and is sort of accepted as the norm (Men are from Mars, Women from Venus or whatever way around it goes). My point is, game content doesn't need to be GEARED toward women. In my experience, we'll play everything (ironically excluding things like Barbie Riding Stadium, if we have any taste). Advertising, as others have mentioned, is what needs to be changed.
Make games intended for gamers. That's all you need to do. If you need a focus, target players of particular genres, but do women a favour and don't pigeonhole us into the "social, cooperative, cute" categories.
mercatfat @ May 20th 2006 1:40PM
Re: any comments commenting that there seems to be a contradiction between being cute and appealing to girls.
This is something the Western mind seems to have trouble comprehending, but it is possible to be cute without pandering to females. Wario Ware and Super Peach are great examples. Feel the Magic was also "cute" without being too over-the-top with it. Even Dead or Alive has a bit of a cute streak.
The smoother, rounder, cleaner lines and far less gritty graphics in most Japanese and some Euro titles are more accessible than America's common machismo oriented style. Period.
WamBam @ May 20th 2006 3:46PM
I hate playing games with microphones, as it seems to attract all kinds of sexist, racist and otherwise severley prejudiced bantor. Perhaps, as much as we need to change the games themselves, we should change out attitudes towards each other.
I'm sorry, but if I beat you badly in Halo it's not because I'm a "stupid, faggot nigger". It's because I'm better then you. ;)
jadenguy @ May 21st 2006 1:25AM
i think the greatest problem with trying to create games that include women is that women don't all agree. it's fairly easy to make a game that will attract men. totally sweet giant explosions and maybe some pretty chicks. zombies are good too. and swearing. pirates and ninjas too. those things are usualy found in games that dudes find awesome.
some games are cute and non-gender exclusive, like super monkey ball or katamari, and even rampage. however, every game can't be katamari, and sometimes i wanna blow robots up and proceed to kill a ninja using my pirate sword. fact.
i have no idea now to please a woman in real life, much less a game. so them game devs, jeeze, those guys are totally asked to do the impossible.
seriously, does anybody read clamp? all female manga group that makes the best stuff ever? i keep hoping that a games clamp gets made somewhere deep inside of japan and makes the pwningest stuff ever. what ev. off to read angelic layer again.
shaka @ Aug 26th 2006 11:21PM
''hot'' chicks dont play video games and thats a fact.
shaka.
Kate @ May 21st 2006 6:59AM
I'm a twenty-year-old woman. I grew up playing video games. I play more video games than a lot of my male friends in the same age-range. One male friend of mine prefers relatively non-violent DS games and was a big fan of The Sims. I play violent shooters, as well as relatively non-violent DS games. My experience with The Sims was setting a few of them on fire.
Different strokes for different folks. I hope we can stop thinking in such one-dimensional terms someday. We are not men. We are not women. We are people. We are gamers. We are individuals.
You can market to a specific group, you can try and lump us all together, but at the end of the day, I'm going to be a different person from my neighbor.
lejakl @ May 22nd 2006 8:33AM
There needs to be a differentiation between girls who are already gamers and girls who not yet game. Of course you would appeal to them differently. I think the industry is mostly concerned with how to capture the market of girls who not yet game.
The girls who already game know the virtues (and vices, unfortunately) of gaming. They know what they like and will seek it out; they know what they don't like and will avoid it. Generally once a girl games and knows what she likes, she'll continue to play until the industry stops making games that cater to her interests. Most girls who already game have brothers or close-male friends while growing up to influence them upon this path. So in a way, their primary influence to pick up a controller is not because the box has ponies on it, it's probably because she watched lil' bro blow up zombies for an hour straight and it looked like fun. (Or, if like me, were forced into playing Goldeneye with them cuz I make an easy target. *sob*)
Where there has been gaming, there has been a girl gamer. This specific group of girls have some kind of natural affinity to games. Of course, each girl has different tastes and interests, but for the most part, there is a key element inside us that makes us a gamer, just like a guy. Market to us like you would any gender-less gamer.
The industry can continue on that way but as we all know game companies are companies. Companies want money. They want to tap into markets that are waiting to be opened. What does a girl who has never gamed before want out of a game? What kind of game can we make that will make them go to the store and buy it without ever having touched a controller before? What does this girl require in that game to push her to branch out into other mainstream "gender-less" games?
That's the part they get hung up on. I think its more of a marketing problem than it is a game design problem. Granted, part of marketing is the product. No matter how you advertise an item, if the item is not what the ad says it is (or even remotely close) you won't be able to sell it. The correct marketing is more important. The call should be for more female game industry marketing managers instead of female game developers. (When I say marketing, I mean the four components of marketing: product, price, distribution and promotion. Not just promotion.) I'm not saying that female game developers wouldn't be beneficial, the insights they give in game developement do help.
bskinners @ May 22nd 2006 10:54AM
Now lets complain about the lackluster of games appealing to black people other than the ones when there is a hero doing criminal activites. Why dont we have a black looking mario who likes something other than women and drugs.